Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[(PSN)Unstar]

In case anyone is interested, the official feedback thread on the forums is here:

 

[Myscho]

Its win-win situation for DE. New players pays for skip, after completing Whispers story wont make sense anyway because of skiped biggest revelations (Second dream, Sacrifice, Zariman/Duviri) and they stop playing, but they already paid

[PollexMessier]

Did anyone else notice that Duviri was literally designed from the ground up to be post-zariman content. But then they decided it would be fine and nothing would possibly go wrong if they just gave everyone access to it from day 1? I sure noticed that, and I think it was a bad call.

I find it hilarious that their first instinct is "we should let players pay to not play our game because it's too long" instead of "Let's maybe shorten the unreasonably long grinds the story is locked behind"

And hilariously, there's 1 thing that needs to be cut down, or even cut out entirely, that would at least half the amount of time it takes to get through the story. The god damn necramech grind.

As someone who helped a friend blast through the story in like 2 weeks (I did try to talk them out of that course of action but I was gonna be there to help them if they still insisted). The Necramech grind is 99% of getting through the main story. And it's completely unnecessary cus in the one section you use a necramech in, they could've just slapped a broken down one there for you to pick up. And funnily enough you can already pay past that one.

I even helped my friend get a solid amp to fight umbra with within a couple hours, which isn't even a requirement but I insisted they do because doing that fight with mote is agony.

They managed getting a railjack on their own. So that's probably not that bad (I played it on release so I was one of the unfortunate few that got to experience that when the required resources were like 10x higher). Tho they were frequently complaining the missions for rising tide were way higher level than they could deal with.

Aside from the necramech grind I think the majority of the problem is the game's learning curve. Not the story or even the grind. A player that knows what they're doing can blast through the story in a laughably short amount of time. Which suggests to me a large part of the issue is DE's reluctance to put any god damn tutorials in the game.

[Hexerin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

In case anyone is interested, the official feedback thread on the forums is here:

 

Oh goodie, another """feedback""" thread where they'll ignore everything everyone is saying and just go through with their original plans anyways.

[Hayrack]

I think it's time to remove all quest prerequisites,  except "complete quest..." Then players can do quests in parallel to unlocking  starchart, with skipable "Lore suggestion" popping  up once in a while, that certain quest is relevant after unlocking the planet.

We can even assume quests to be our memories of past events, that shaped our sandbox world.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Hayrack

[0bsi]

My friends and I have this problem.   I have completed all quests, they have mostly only done up to The War Within.  They all did Duviri - even though they don't understand the story that lead up to there....  But it means that when new content drops that's locked behind progress they haven't done, we can't play together, and that discourages them more than incentivises them to progress further.

The reason they don't do the quests is not so much about the grind (I helped them get necramechs and help them grind frames and such), it's 100% because they are solo quests.

They don't want to play Warframe solo - they want to play with their friends.  All the quests/missions we can play together in a squad they will do happily.  It's the solo ones they won't.  And it's not even because they feel underpowered and want a carry -- it's because they want to spend their gaming time playing with friends.


My thoughts:

• I think the biggest barrier for players progressing through the story quests is because they are solo only.   I know Pablo said it's more work to make them doable in a squad, but that's how you make it more appealing for people to do it!  -- How much of the whinging about TNW quest would have been solved if struggling players could get help with a squad to get through.  (and a quit option) 
• The inability to quit War Within and The New War is a huge hurdle for some people - they know it's solo, and that they can't get out once they click that button.  Remove that hurdle by enabling them to quit!!!!!
• Allowing players to squad up for story quests, rather than skipping it means they get fed the lore, get to experience the gameplay -- but aren't being forced to do it alone, and can get help if they need it.  Which I feel is infinitely better than a skip.
• I don't object to a pay to skip - especially given you can already buy weapons and frames to skip MR anyway (I don't understand why people object to pay to skip but think buying MR is fine?).  But I think players do themselves a big disservice by not doing the story quests (I don't think letting new players into Duviri was a good idea, because they lose what the story means and won't appreciate it the same way a player who hasn't skipped the quests can appreciate it.)
• I feel that if a skip option is added - then a discouragement of some form is essential - whether that be a plat cost or something else. To make it so that people are less inclined to skip.
• If skipping doesn't cost plat, then quest rewards shouldn't be given.  It wouldn't be fair to players who did the story grind, if someone can freely skip it and get the resulting rewards.  If free skipping is enabled, then the quest should have to be played (via codex) in order to gain those rewards.  That would allow players to skip to get to the higher content, but not gain the other benefits of having completed the quest.

 

Rather than skipping (or in addition to it) I would rather the focus be on:

• Make all story quests co-op!   None should be solo
• Make ALL quests quittable, so players can nope out and try again later (real life happens, don't lock people in!)
• Lower/remove the grind -- I understand the desire to encourage players to have a railjack/necramech - But let them decide on their own to build those when/if they need to for other content.  Let them do Call of the Tempestarii and TNW in a loaner railjack & Necramech.  (You apparently already get a loner Paracesis?, so the same could be done for the vehicles).  The rest of Warframe is grindy enough, the quests are kinda separate, just let people do them fairly easily, there's still PLENTY of grind left.
• If the aim is to get players through to the story as quick as possible, then removing all requiements other than preceeding quests would surely be the best way to do that.

[AshRangerX]

Story Skip almost feels like a cop out for all the "new player streamlining" they've been doing. Like, instead of continuing to improve the new player experience they just kinda said screw it. I feel like improving the actual story missions would be way better, like making every story related item an instant craft. Streamlining that and making stuff like Orokin Catalysts easier for new players to obtain would do so much more for new players than speed running them to the end of a story ever would.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

On a semi-separate note, I'd like to also share how cool it was seeing them announce the "pay-to-skip" feature, and then Rebb immediately paying attention to the comments and reading the massive amount of "nope", and then rethinking the whole thing live.

That's always a good sign, regardless of where one might approach this subject. And one that despite some major mistakes (Heirloom *cough* *cough*) still has me hopeful for this game's direction.

That said, I stand by my original point in this thread. Sometime we'll have to address the huge size of the game, and how to have newer players (the life blood of any live service) be able to partake into "the cool new toy" without having to invest hundreds of hours first. Specially since those hundred hours only get larger with each update.

That's about it for me. Looking to see how DE will creatively tackle this very complicated issue without resorting to polarizing strategies, regardless of good intentions.

Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)Hikuro-93

[Sabreracer]

The problem is not as such 10 years of Quests to wade through but the stuff you need to do before you can start each quest.  

This was of course done to give players something to do either before they could start and also once the quest was over now go grind out the new gear we just introduced while the next quest gets written and produced.

If you want to introduce a skip make it so you get a package that allows you to start a Quest.  Play through that before being able to get the next one to start the quest after that.

Most Quests are not super long and mostly good grounding for learning the new mechanic introduced, which will help progress long term.

TL:DR  Buy Quest packages, but the Quest must be played before continuing to the next one.  You are rewarded with the gear that you would normally have ground out to either start it or after you finish it to begin the next.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sabreracer
spelling

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

2 hours ago, 0bsi said:

The inability to quit War Within and The New War is a huge hurdle for some people - they know it's solo, and that they can't get out once they click that button.  Remove that hurdle by enabling them to quit!!!!!

or give them a game they can play before speedrunning the (was supposed to be) "Hardcore, High level" Content

Like a new war star chart instead of the same unchanged locked chart with remnants of the previous quest as decoration

Then they gave Zarimon which is presumably what the new war "difficulty" was supposed to be

Edited October 28, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[baked]

Pay for skip already exists in that players can just purchase platinum and then trade for items they do not wish to farm, and there are some explicit pay-to-skips with Railjack and Mechs as gates for The New War.

As for paying to skip quests, I believe that rather than admitting defeat and effectively saying "yep, the new player experience sucks. you can purchase a ticket to bypass the earlygame though", DE has many options available to them to streamline and further improve the new player experience. They have made great steps already, such as removing flawed mods (an unnecessary addition that served only to confuse new players and waste their limited early resources) and tweaking junction requirements.

I think that DE would be better served by making a very explicit early game quest chain and making it absolutely clear which quests are necessary to complete early on and which are optional or can be freely left til later. Archwing Launcher appearing in your foundry with no explanation for what an Archwing is, that you need one to actually use the launcher, how to get the segment; Orb Vallis and Plains of Eidolon trapping newbies who don't know any better; making newbies with no loot radar mods have to hunt down a Cephalon Fragment they've never seen before. Many of these things have to be repeated over and over again in QnA.

Some people have said that other games have a pay-to-skip-to-endgame option, but all or most of those games, to my knowledge (such as WoW and FFXIV and Destiny 2) encourage you to make multiple characters with which you repeat quests. However, in Warframe, you experience the story once for your whole account, so I don't see as much of a need for such a skip.

The main point I can see reason in is new players wanting access to new content ASAP. Makes sense, especially if they see ads for it (which DE have ramped up in the 2020s). I don't have a problem with this, really, but I think there are still other options, especially ones that don't make new players spend a currency they're not familiar with the value of to access content in a game they don't know anything about. I think perhaps a "temporary skip" could be made without a platinum cost, giving new players loaner gear. Remember Orphix Venom's free mechs? Think Kullervo's Hold alert but minus the Pathos Clamp tax (which was added with the explicit intent to gatekeep players who couldn't kill an Orowyrm from joining).

EDIT - I also want to add my appreciation to Rebecca for being very open and honest about this, especially knowing how the players can be about these things.

Edited October 28, 2023 by baked

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

You can only pick two, DE. In my biased mind, it seems like an easy choice. 

• EPHEMERALS: Doesn't care about the game. Just here to play the thing they saw in the trailer because of their freinds or whatever. Doesn't want to face any berriers at all. They view ANY challenge or inconvenience as universally bad game design. Only here because it's poular in their circle. Will leave when it's no longer socially-stimulating to like the game/content. "All game design that gets in the way of my socio-personal goals is bad and should be removed" I couldn't have said it better myself. Buys 1 prime access and then leaves. 
• CASUALS: Likes to just hang out without having to face too many challenges. Might not be try hards, but they get where they're going. They value the expiriences they've had with the game and their friends. Usually partnered with one of the Hardcores as a balanced duo. "It's just a video game" And yet you're arguing about it on the forums? Buys most prime accesses. (I'm slightly annoyed to admit that this should be DE's first pick for consistent $$$)
• HARDCORES: Enjoys buildcraft and taking on hard-mode content. Games the market. Spends allot of time in fashionframe. Willing to invest time, money, and energy into mastering the game. They like the game, but might also give overly aggressive critiques at times. Because they care. "I have a life aside from playing the game for 12 hours a day" Sure, buddy. Buys a prime access for favorite frames. Might also go crazy one day and breakup with the game for a while. 

[GPrime96]

6 hours ago, baked said:

Pay for skip already exists in that players can just purchase platinum and then trade for items they do not wish to farm, and there are some explicit pay-to-skips with Railjack and Mechs as gates for The New War.

As for paying to skip quests, I believe that rather than admitting defeat and effectively saying "yep, the new player experience sucks. you can purchase a ticket to bypass the earlygame though", DE has many options available to them to streamline and further improve the new player experience. They have made great steps already, such as removing flawed mods (an unnecessary addition that served only to confuse new players and waste their limited early resources) and tweaking junction requirements.

I think that DE would be better served by making a very explicit early game quest chain and making it absolutely clear which quests are necessary to complete early on and which are optional or can be freely left til later. Archwing Launcher appearing in your foundry with no explanation for what an Archwing is, that you need one to actually use the launcher, how to get the segment; Orb Vallis and Plains of Eidolon trapping newbies who don't know any better; making newbies with no loot radar mods have to hunt down a Cephalon Fragment they've never seen before. Many of these things have to be repeated over and over again in QnA.

Some people have said that other games have a pay-to-skip-to-endgame option, but all or most of those games, to my knowledge (such as WoW and FFXIV and Destiny 2) encourage you to make multiple characters with which you repeat quests. However, in Warframe, you experience the story once for your whole account, so I don't see as much of a need for such a skip.

The main point I can see reason in is new players wanting access to new content ASAP. Makes sense, especially if they see ads for it (which DE have ramped up in the 2020s). I don't have a problem with this, really, but I think there are still other options, especially ones that don't make new players spend a currency they're not familiar with the value of to access content in a game they don't know anything about. I think perhaps a "temporary skip" could be made without a platinum cost, giving new players loaner gear. Remember Orphix Venom's free mechs? Think Kullervo's Hold alert but minus the Pathos Clamp tax (which was added with the explicit intent to gatekeep players who couldn't kill an Orowyrm from joining).

EDIT - I also want to add my appreciation to Rebecca for being very open and honest about this, especially knowing how the players can be about these things.

Very truthful post here^

[fakeplayerr]

On 2023-10-27 at 10:15 PM, Cerikus said:

I have no idea how complicated it would actually be to implement, but the solution is NOT to let players skip the story, but to DECOUPLE it from progression.

Story quests simply need to be fed to a new player without the new player having to grind through MR and build a bunch of nonsense.
The biggest hurdle is that there are quest prerequisites.

The experience needs to be:
1) You install Warframe for the first time, because you want to play Whispers in the Walls.
2) You open the quest and start it.
3) UI box opens up with text "This is the latest quest. You won't understand unless you play previous quests. Are you sure? Type in "I AM SURE" to start."
4) There can also be a button that will start the mentioned story recap video.

Solved.

Its gonna be strange. New player sees trailer about the Whisper - "ooh i wanna play that!". He installs the game, logs in, popup is like "Hey, heard you wanted to play Whispers. No problem, gib us plat and you wont have to play it!" Game finished. Lets uninstall now

[trst]

15 hours ago, Myscho said:

Its win-win situation for DE. New players pays for skip, after completing Whispers story wont make sense anyway because of skiped biggest revelations (Second dream, Sacrifice, Zariman/Duviri) and they stop playing, but they already paid

It's a win-win for the community too. After all if someone would be willing to intentionally skip the entire story then decides to abandon ship because they don't understand the story then they're not going to be a kind of player worth keeping.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

17 hours ago, Myscho said:

Its win-win situation for DE. New players pays for skip, after completing Whispers story wont make sense anyway because of skiped biggest revelations (Second dream, Sacrifice, Zariman/Duviri) and they stop playing, but they already paid

Unfortunately you arnt wrong.

2 hours ago, trst said:

It's a win-win for the community too. After all if someone would be willing to intentionally skip the entire story then decides to abandon ship because they don't understand the story then they're not going to be a kind of player worth keeping.

This is a really bad view and the game needs new players not a bunch of elitist vets.

Edited October 29, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[trst]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

This is a really bad view and the game needs new players not a bunch of elitist vets.

And the game will still get new players who choose to play through the game instead of paying to skip it. And some of those who pay to skip it might even want to go back and see what they missed.

But players who skip it and then complain about being lost aren't worth keeping around. It's like someone reading only the first paragraph of a book and the last chapter then complaining that the story makes no sense, their opinion isn't valid nor worth having. Especially as every major story quest and nearly every side quest are all replayable at any time already.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

That's funny, everyone being gate keepers now, but before if I was against this, I'd be called a white knight. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I want to add that pay to SKIP is not the same as pay to RUSH. Rushing implies that you still expirience key points in the game. Skipping implies that you never expirience key points in the game. 

And as sure a s stug is meta, people will turn around and complain that there is no/confusing story after they skip. That's my perspective from a fiction-creator perspective, knowing how dumb the audience can be. DE is seriously going to open up another can of worms if they do this. That much is certain. 

[SplatterAte]

I don't like the idea of a paid skip, but we do need a way for new players to be able to be able to see new content. I think that the main story quests should just have the prerequisite of the quest before it. The biggest sinks right now are railjack and necromech, so maybe just let players do the quest without them. Anyway that DE chooses to address this problem is going to tick off some people, but it needs to be done sooner than later, I've seen too many people get into Warframe just to drop of after a few missions.

[RLanzinger]

Na @(XBOX)Architect Prime, Rush or skip ar strictly the same :

• Pay to have Prime Access or any Warframe like Citrine/Voruna IS Skipping the whole optional quest
• Pay to have NecraMech, Railjack, Overboard IS Skipping the whole Grind stuff
• Pay to have resources like Pathos Clamp IS Skipping Orowyrm's fights

What Does "this" P2Skip is :

1. It validate the whole conditions linked about TWO-WEEKS-OF-GRIND Quests.
2. It give the the tiny "rewards" for those quest.

 

What Does "this" P2Skip does not :

1. It does not give you all the Lore of the game (Loot of rhino's Players n' some people do not care)
2. It does not give you any Mods, Resources or Boss Loots (Like Grove's Specter rare Mods in Titania's Quest)

 

It's NOTHING UNFAIR in comparison of F2P players.

Claiming the opposite like Asking someone If you want to play Gran turisimo 7, you have to play and finish all modes in Gran turisimo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6...

 

ALSO your Sophism about you can only choose 2 of Ephemerals/Casuals/Hardcore was never impossible, only you state that it is not; Unless you can prove me this theory, you are wrong because since Euclide "what is asserted without reason may be denied without reason".

Any FPS, Deck Building games ^Magic or Races games can please your three category of players... That is the truth, where it please you or not !!!

Edited October 29, 2023 by RLanzinger
a bit formatting :p

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

On 2023-10-27 at 12:15 PM, Cerikus said:

I have no idea how complicated it would actually be to implement, but the solution is NOT to let players skip the story, but to DECOUPLE it from progression.

Story quests simply need to be fed to a new player without the new player having to grind through MR and build a bunch of nonsense.
The biggest hurdle is that there are quest prerequisites.

The experience needs to be:
1) You install Warframe for the first time, because you want to play Whispers in the Walls.
2) You open the quest and start it.
3) UI box opens up with text "This is the latest quest. You won't understand unless you play previous quests. Are you sure? Type in "I AM SURE" to start."
4) There can also be a button that will start the mentioned story recap video.

Solved.

This is a bad idea. The story unlocking progression gives it meaning. A story for the sake of a story may be good but in a video game - especially a live service game with weekly and daily objectives and time limited events is a bad idea. The player is then forced into a position of deciding to experience the story - just for fun - and pause their progression or to “save it for a rainy day” when they’ve run out of things to do. Such as what people typically do with side quests. The problem with this is the main story isn’t a side quest and this isn’t a single player game. It’s a live service game and the objective is to never allow the player to reach the point of “having nothing to do”.

 

Tying progression to the story is the best way to experience the story.

 

You know? It’s like Palace of the Dead (solo) in FFXIV. It rewards nothing. It’s existed for 8 years now? I’ve never done it. I keep telling myself “someday when I have nothing left to do”. The day I have nothing left to do is the day they stop developing content for the game.

Edited October 29, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

This is a bad idea. The story unlocking progression gives it meaning. A story for the sake of a story may be good but in a video game - especially a live service game with weekly and daily objectives and time limited events is a bad idea. The player is then forced into a position of deciding to experience the story - just for fun - and pause their progression or to “save it for a rainy day” when they’ve run out of things to do. Such as what people typically do with side quests. The problem with this is the main story isn’t a side quest and this isn’t a single player game. It’s a live service game and the objective is to never allow the player to reach the point of “having nothing to do”.

 

Tying progression to the story is the best way to experience the story.

 

You know? It’s like Palace of the Dead (solo) in FFXIV. It rewards nothing. It’s existed for 8 years now? I’ve never done it. I keep telling myself “someday when I have nothing left to do”. The day I have nothing left to do is the day they stop developing content for the game.

I agree, but it doesn't invalidate my solution. The game is in the best state it has ever been, but the barrier to entry is the highest it has ever been. Warframe could easily pop off and grow more, if there was a way to skip. If you are a new player and you see new update ad, but you find out you have to play at least 200 h to get to it, you leave. 

There are suggestions like allow new players to "just play main story quests", but that's like 20h of story gameplay you have no real attachment to. I love warframe quests, but without the attachment you build by playing the game, the quests honestly aren't as impactful as we think they are. Second dream IS a masterpiece, but only because you play for 100 hours and THEN you find out the truth that's been before your eyes. If you allow a player to play it within first 10 hours of Warframe, it's actually meaningless.

Pay2skip or allow2skip is not a good solution, it will invalidate the story even more, but DE MUST allow players to play the newest content...

The reason why I am suggesting decoupling story from progression is that you could allow a new player into the current state of Warframe. 

In an ideal world of make belive I would rework the entire starchart, so you don't have to grind through Earth, Venus, Mercury and Mars to get to Deimos. The planets would just be there and all of them would be accessible from Earth. Story would NOT be connected to starchart progression, but WOULD unlock stuff in Starchart. (You can still hide Lua, Kuva Fortress, Zariman, etc. until you progress through story), but if you are a new player and you want to play Whispers in the walls because you've seen an advert, you should be allowed to.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cerikus

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

50 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I agree, but it doesn't invalidate my solution. The game is in the best state it has ever been, but the barrier to entry is the highest it has ever been. Warframe could easily pop off and grow more, if there was a way to skip. If you are a new player and you see new update ad, but you find out you have to play at least 200 h to get to it, you leave. 

There are suggestions like allow new players to "just play main story quests", but that's like 20h of story gameplay you have no real attachment to. I love warframe quests, but without the attachment you build by playing the game, the quests honestly aren't as impactful as we think they are. Second dream IS a masterpiece, but only because you play for 100 hours and THEN you find out the truth that's been before your eyes. If you allow a player to play it within first 10 hours of Warframe, it's actually meaningless.

Pay2skip or allow2skip is not a good solution, it will invalidate the story even more, but DE MUST allow players to play the newest content...

The reason why I am suggesting decoupling story from progression is that you could allow a new player into the current state of Warframe. 

In an ideal world of make belive I would rework the entire starchart, so you don't have to grind through Earth, Venus, Mercury and Mars to get to Deimos. The planets would just be there and all of them would be accessible from Earth. Story would NOT be connected to starchart progression, but WOULD unlock stuff in Starchart. (You can still hide Lua, Kuva Fortress, Zariman, etc. until you progress through story), but if you are a new player and you want to play Whispers in the walls because you've seen an advert, you should be allowed to.

No it doesn’t invalidate it but it isn’t a good solution. In my opinion doing things like giving the player a necramech and Railjack to use during the quests is a good solution along with removing mastery rank requirements. Things that make those quests easier to get through and quite honestly act as needless barriers to entry, mastery rank in particular. The quests themselves without the grind requirements aren’t even that long to actually play through. I don’t think that would make it meaningless even though it would significantly cut their time investment.

I also don’t understand why new players “must be able to play the newest content. Unless they’re going to P2W every single mod for their builds they’re going to have to do that content regardless unless story skipping also gives them a boatload of endo, credits, galv, corrupted, augment and other mods and if you’re going to P2W like that then why even play the game to begin with.

 

Another really dangerous aspect of monetizing story is it may come at the detriment to it in order to incentivize paying to skip it or the devs simply not caring to develop it since people will pay to skip it anyways. This would be very bad.

 

I agree reworking the star chart would be good. That isn’t a fun grind.

Edited October 29, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[Cerikus]

45 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

No it doesn’t invalidate it but it isn’t a good solution. 

I agree.

52 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

In my opinion doing things like giving the player a necramech and Railjack to use during the quests is a good solution along with removing mastery rank requirements. Things that make those quests easier to get through and quite honestly act as needless barriers to entry, mastery rank in particular. The quests themselves without the grind requirements aren’t even that long to actually play through. I don’t think that would make it meaningless even though it would significantly cut their time investment.

Building a Railjack is not an issue, because it takes like 30 minutes total. Even if they give you Railjack and Necramech for free instantly, it takes 100 hours to get to New war. I know this because I've been a sherpa to someone recently. It could've been less, but that would ruin the game for them. Letting experienced player do it for you is bad and if you want to do it yourself, it WILL take 100 hours. That's the problem. Doing all the starchart missions, junctions, sidequests that are prerequisits for junctions.

Let's imagine DE decide that to play Whispers in the Walls you "ONLY" need to get to Deimos and finish "Heart of Deimos". That's approx. 20 hours without being pushed through by Sherpa. That I think would be reasonable, but not ideal.

54 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

I also don’t understand why new players “must be able to play the newest content.

Because Warframe gets better the longer you play it and it is not because of "time sunk fallacy", but because most of the early game is genuinely bad. It's old and decrepit and until you hit Uranus and start Natah, there is no story and no actual strong reason for "why I am doing this stuff". It takes 50 hours to get to Second dream and if you are not invested before, you won't even reach it, let alone New War or The whispers in the Walls...

The newest content is the big shiny that can be advertised and that can attract new players and this game NEEDS new players. It has been steadily declining since 2020 and DE have the stats and data and if they say the 10 years of warframe is a roadblock for new players, it IS a roadblock for new players and we NEED a solution.

All the solutions are bad. All we need is to pick the one that is the least bad and unfortunatelly I agree with Rebecca. Pay to skip story and receive gear to participate in the newest content IS the "least bad solution".

1 hour ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

Another really dangerous aspect of monetizing story is it may come at the detriment to it in order to incentivize paying to skip it or the devs simply not caring to develop it since people will pay to skip it anyways. This would be very bad.

I totally agree it can be dangerous, but I don't think DE are that kind of developer. I trully belive they wouldn't use it as an excuse to do worse, especially since pay to skip is the core monetization technique of warframe. You can finish tutorial, buy plat and get the best gear, maxed out mods and everything from other players. You already can skip everything with money... EXCEPT for the starchart grind. And afaik (and I've been playing since 2016) it was never an excuse to make the content worse on purpose. Yeah, sometimes they miss the mark, but tthey always promptly fix it.