The PvP conversation

[S.Dust]

Let's start with I am someone who enjoys PVP from time to time my conclave rank is maxed and I lit my syandana for the first time in a long time, really is a beauty.

PvP in Warframe is stuck in this endless cycle of people who don't play it wanting it removed even though no or near no resources are put into it, even this week's event which I've been enjoying isn't new. If you've been around it's not the first time we've had the snowball fight and candy cane scyth event yet people seem upset resources went into resuing an old event because it's clunky, takes skill, and "isn't fun" (subjective). 

People complain that PvP in Warframe is clunky and can never work while also putting up a wall of vitriol whenever a player who enjoys conclave even a little suggests putting resources work into it. People argue fast paced PvP doesn't work but, the people who took the time to learn and get good at it clearly show it can and even then if we look in the conclave section of the forums we see plenty of conclave enjoyers make suggestions that the community as a whole would probably enjoy. People have recommended K drive racing against other players, Kaithe racing, operator pvp, or Kahl style PvP, people have recommended making frame fighter a part of conclave but everyone for some reason thinks it would be better to flat-out remove the mode.

 

I'm curious what people think happens if conclave is removed. There's no guarantee they allow you to obtain its rewards in other ways, arcane helmets are in the game but unobtainable so are many other rewards from past events. Why are people so desperate to remove something that is enjoyed even if it's only by a few; more so why are people so determined to have conclave rott, plenty of games thrive while offering both PvE and PvP. I'd argue those games do somewhat better publicity-wise because they're more fun to watch so content creators flock to them.

Final comment is DE was smart to make the rewards for this event minor because honestly this community can be really mean when it doesn't get what it wants when it wants it.

Edited December 3, 2023 by S.Dust

[PublikDomain]

16 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Why are people so desperate to remove something that is enjoyed even if it's only by a few; more so why are people so determined to have conclave rott

Because our wonderful and welcoming community has a habit of not actually being all that empathetic. A lot of people around here can't accept that other people exist who might have different preferences and interests.

[MobyTheDuck]

As someone who bothered to max Conclave when it was new and had unique modes like Instagib and that one Valentines Day, my thoughts are:

People that play PVE don't want to be forced to play PVP to get rewards to use in PVE, so they get a terrible first impression of PVP due events.

PVP is YEARS behind on balancing, there are mods that still talk about Melee Channeling. The last frame they added was Khora and you can't use the Primes of several frames (Inaros, Titania, Harrow, to name a few). PVP breaks often and rarely got updates, usually just to fix something that escaped from PVE.

People that do try PVP to get the skins find out that you have to spend standing on mods be effective and that kills their drive.

A new PVP player will SURELY get surprised that the mobility is completely different, as is the whole modding system. Frames that they remember being agile will suddenly be slow as molasses, and they don't have any idea you have to rank up and spend standing to get mods to improve your mobility.

People join PVP to find out that its completely deserted, quite literally dead on some regions. When they do find a game, they will often be matched with someone that only plays PVP, stomps them repeatedly, making them leave and never touch the mode again. No skill matchmaking means that stomping happens more often.

This also causes a "can't catch up" problem: players that already played Conclave have the mods to increase mobility and give other bonuses, while a new player will jump on their Rhino (or whatever loadout they managed to equip due all the restrictions) and find out they move at glacial speeds trying to hit something akin to flies on crack with spit balls.

Also, like everything else, PVP is still peer to peer (no idea if the community servers still exist). Ping and region is a huge factor, specially on projectile weapons like the event.

There are some really toxic and sweaty people on the PVP community. People that avoid ranking up so they can only stomp newbies. People that only play with the most sweaty meta you have ever seen.

From personal experience, and what made me stop playing conclave: A group of players that would actively hop around low populated regions, looking for people to report for playing as a group and grinding conclave challenges. Apparently playing with a friend was a serious crime that you could lose your account for.

Would removing PVP damage the game? Not really. Would bother a few hundred players? Yeah, sure. Would the average player even notice conclave was gone? Hell no.

The average player doesn't even knows about the Conclave menu, let alone skins and armor sets. Maybe DE would put them in the market? Maybe they would be put on the Steel Path shop? Who knows.

They removed raids, that were FAR more played than Conclave and were related to the game lore, because they couldn't bother fixing them, yet arcanes are still around.

They can still keep Conclave around, but nothing will really change. It might be that one day it will break beyond salvaging and they will have to put it out of commission.

Edited December 3, 2023 by MobyTheDuck

[L3512]

8 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Because our wonderful and welcoming community has a habit of not actually being all that empathetic. A lot of people around here can't accept that other people exist who might have different preferences and interests.

Indeed, the community is very hiveminded.

 

48 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

PvP in Warframe is stuck in this endless cycle of people who don't play it wanting it removed even though no or near no resources are put into it, even this week's event which I've been enjoying isn't new. If you've been around it's not the first time we've had the snowball fight and candy cane scyth event yet people seem upset resources went into resuing an old event because it's clunky, takes skill, and "isn't fun" (subjective).

Even with the event going I could not matchmake for a game, WF PvP is so dead people have to put in an unreasonable effort to play which leads to this next part.

 

3 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

People join PVP to find out that its completely deserted, quite literally dead on some regions. When they do find a game, they will often be matched with someone that only plays PVP, stomps them repeatedly, making them leave and never touch the mode again. No skill matchmaking means that stomping happens more often.

100% what happened in the two games I've ever found other players for, also the movement speed is slowed down in PvP which is really annoying when it comes to muscle memory.

[trst]

If all the players who insisted on conclave getting outright deleted and all the other similarly unconstructive comments instead asked for an alternative then Conclave would be in a far better place and possibly even one those players would want to engage with. For instance just using a stripped down form of the OpLink system for competitive PvE or just focusing on the leaderboard system we've always had.

I also find it funny how hard PvP games like conclave filter out players. High mobility twitch shooters like it aren't anything remotely new but they all share the crutch of demanding a mountainous climb before it's possible to get slightly competent at the game.

 

But if it ever was removed all we'd end up with is a branch of the game getting scrapped for zero benefit to anyone, the forums getting massively toxic feeling validated by the decision, the actual Conclave community feeling massively slighted, and a horrible precedent being established of content possibly getting removed for nothing.

[(XBOX)Zeljamin]

My only problem is the event just kinda popped up and the glyph disappeared in 24 hours. It takes 10 minutes or 50 kills to finish a match. However, the game lobbies don’t fill that often. I just want another chance to get that glyph. I like the holiday glyphs, and it seems unrealistic to lock a holiday item behind an unsupported game type. If you want play minute rounds of something, that is your business and I’m happy PvPers got an event, but most of us don’t have the time for that, or we would rather spend 30 minutes on a Lich, etc.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, S.Dust said:

while also putting up a wall of vitriol whenever a player who enjoys conclave even a little suggests putting resources work into it.

Yup.  Whenever this community pats itself on the back for what a great community it is, this is one of the first things that crosses my mind.  Lots of great individuals play this game, but it turns out the community is just like every other good-sized gaming community I've ever known: ultimately a very mixed bag.

If Conclave ever gets discontinued, I shudder to think of the high-fives that will swamp these forums for a few days before those people  latch onto another thing whose existence they can be indignant about.

[Pakaku]

This would obviously take a lot of work, but I'd love to see a standalone Conclave game, like Unreal Tournament or Team Fortress 2, and opened up to the community to make maps, mod in weapons, script new game modes, bot support? etc. so that it becomes "our" game. It would be a fresh start and also a way to let it grow into its own identity beyond just the confines of "Warframe PvP"

As for the old Conclave rewards, they should probably just be moved into the Nightwave shop. There's a problem with trying to bribe people with rewards to play a floundering game mode: most players will only play for those rewards, and stop playing once they've reached what they want. That works for the soloable content, but is not good for a game that expects constant human activity. And it doesn't seem to be doing a good job at getting players in, anyways...

Edited December 3, 2023 by Pakaku

[FA22_RaptoR]

There really does need to be something done about, or looked at for PVP. despite not being a traditional PVP guy, I actually enjoyed it in destiny 2. But with warframe the movement is so clunky and the levels are so vertical it's just tiresome to move through the levels, not to mention engaging other players. I have no idea how much actual standing you get for a conclave mission, but in D2 you can do pretty much all your 'daily tasks' in like 3-5 missions IIRC, so it was only a little but each week you needed if you wanted to play PVP... for some reason I feel warframe PVP is going to be a significantly worse grind which turns people off.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

2 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

As someone who bothered to max Conclave when it was new and had unique modes like Instagib and that one Valentines Day, my thoughts are:

People that play PVE don't want to be forced to play PVP to get rewards to use in PVE, so they get a terrible first impression of PVP due events.

PVP is YEARS behind on balancing, there are mods that still talk about Melee Channeling. The last frame they added was Khora and you can't use the Primes of several frames (Inaros, Titania, Harrow, to name a few). PVP breaks often and rarely got updates, usually just to fix something that escaped from PVE.

People that do try PVP to get the skins find out that you have to spend standing on mods be effective and that kills their drive.

A new PVP player will SURELY get surprised that the mobility is completely different, as is the whole modding system. Frames that they remember being agile will suddenly be slow as molasses, and they don't have any idea you have to rank up and spend standing to get mods to improve your mobility.

People join PVP to find out that its completely deserted, quite literally dead on some regions. When they do find a game, they will often be matched with someone that only plays PVP, stomps them repeatedly, making them leave and never touch the mode again. No skill matchmaking means that stomping happens more often.

This also causes a "can't catch up" problem: players that already played Conclave have the mods to increase mobility and give other bonuses, while a new player will jump on their Rhino (or whatever loadout they managed to equip due all the restrictions) and find out they move at glacial speeds trying to hit something akin to flies on crack with spit balls.

Also, like everything else, PVP is still peer to peer (no idea if the community servers still exist). Ping and region is a huge factor, specially on projectile weapons like the event.

There are some really toxic and sweaty people on the PVP community. People that avoid ranking up so they can only stomp newbies. People that only play with the most sweaty meta you have ever seen.

From personal experience, and what made me stop playing conclave: A group of players that would actively hop around low populated regions, looking for people to report for playing as a group and grinding conclave challenges. Apparently playing with a friend was a serious crime that you could lose your account for.

Would removing PVP damage the game? Not really. Would bother a few hundred players? Yeah, sure. Would the average player even notice conclave was gone? Hell no.

The average player doesn't even knows about the Conclave menu, let alone skins and armor sets. Maybe DE would put them in the market? Maybe they would be put on the Steel Path shop? Who knows.

They removed raids, that were FAR more played than Conclave and were related to the game lore, because they couldn't bother fixing them, yet arcanes are still around.

They can still keep Conclave around, but nothing will really change. It might be that one day it will break beyond salvaging and they will have to put it out of commission.

That's honestly why I imagine so many people are just frustrated. They want to enjoy Conclave, but it's ... just a giant mess. We get recycled events that just remind us of how old and decrepit everything is and folks just find it insulting. 

I maxed Conclave ages ago myself and it was nothing but pain. A horrendous slog I had to trudge through, day after day, just to get decent enough at it to farm for the skins. The only time I actually had fun was when I played with friends, but those matches don't even count, so why bother?

So yeah, I'm not surprised people just want it to go away. If you're not even going to attempt to fix it up or actually put in the work to make it more enjoyable with basic features, why even have it?

[L3512]

49 minutes ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

I have no idea how much actual standing you get for a conclave mission, but in D2 you can do pretty much all your 'daily tasks' in like 3-5 missions IIRC, so it was only a little but each week you needed if you wanted to play PVP... for some reason I feel warframe PVP is going to be a significantly worse grind which turns people off.

Sweet #*!% all.

[Skoomaseller]

5 hours ago, S.Dust said:

Let's start with I am someone who enjoys PVP from time to time my conclave rank is maxed and I lit my syandana for the first time in a long time, really is a beauty.

PvP in Warframe is stuck in this endless cycle of people who don't play it wanting it removed even though no or near no resources are put into it, even this week's event which I've been enjoying isn't new. If you've been around it's not the first time we've had the snowball fight and candy cane scyth event yet people seem upset resources went into resuing an old event because it's clunky, takes skill, and "isn't fun" (subjective). 

People complain that PvP in Warframe is clunky and can never work while also putting up a wall of vitriol whenever a player who enjoys conclave even a little suggests putting resources work into it. People argue fast paced PvP doesn't work but, the people who took the time to learn and get good at it clearly show it can and even then if we look in the conclave section of the forums we see plenty of conclave enjoyers make suggestions that the community as a whole would probably enjoy. People have recommended K drive racing against other players, Kaithe racing, operator pvp, or Kahl style PvP, people have recommended making frame fighter a part of conclave but everyone for some reason thinks it would be better to flat-out remove the mode.

 

I'm curious what people think happens if conclave is removed. There's no guarantee they allow you to obtain its rewards in other ways, arcane helmets are in the game but unobtainable so are many other rewards from past events. Why are people so desperate to remove something that is enjoyed even if it's only by a few; more so why are people so determined to have conclave rott, plenty of games thrive while offering both PvE and PvP. I'd argue those games do somewhat better publicity-wise because they're more fun to watch so content creators flock to them.

Final comment is DE was smart to make the rewards for this event minor because honestly this community can be really mean when it doesn't get what it wants when it wants it.

my take is that there is no reason for conclave to be removed. DE doesn't give a S#&$ about it so there's really no reason to suddenly take action unless conclave was somehow draining their pockets like a parasitic worm.

if they do decide to roll the shutters down on conclave it'd be a bit like pulling the plug on a terminally ill patient, i.e., putting it out of its misery.

but as it stands, there's:

1) no reason to shut down conclave, since it doesn't seem to negatively affect anything, and if it did it would've been shuttered long ago,

2) no reason to continue supporting conclave, since hardly anyone plays it, and because they've never actually given a S#&$ so why even start after all this time,

3) no reason to upset the very, very few people still playing it.

tl:dr; conclave is just stuck in an eternal limbo of life and death. what DE does with it is up to them. better to just leave it be than to upset the passionate few who still play it till this day, despite conclave being in eternal existential limbo/maintenance mode.

to answer what I think will happen if it does shut down: nothing much. a few broken hearts (understandably so, will pour one out for the conclave cadres), removal or perhaps reworking (as we saw with some conclave mods) of a whole category of mods, and perhaps cosmetic rewards shifted elsewhere. I hope they make the cosmetics available, the conclave weapon skins look fancy. 

anyone making fun of people playing conclave should mind their own business, and find a new hobby.

[S.Dust]

4 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

PVP to get the skins find out that you have to spend standing on mods be effective

Only mod I have on any weapons for pvp are melee stances and that's it. I do just fine, also no mods on the frames btw. I don't think they affect much of anything but lets argue they did then I agree they should be balanced but that would require the community to be open to any effort being put into any form of PVP. It doesn't need to be combat id take racing.

[trst]

10 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

2) no reason to continue supporting conclave, since hardly anyone plays it, and because they've never actually given a S#&$ so why even start after all this time,

3) no reason to upset the very, very few people still playing it.

Actually that's perhaps the biggest problem with Conclave; DE did care about it at one point. As I understand it they used to have someone who's entire job was to balance and maintain the system which was the best time for the mode. Plus they did bother to create the whole player hosted server system for it. Like seriously despite how often players have complained about the game using P2P hosting it was Conclave that got access to hosted servers.

So if DE started putting the minimum amount of effort into it again it'd be them correcting how they dropped support for it out of nowhere.

Edited December 3, 2023 by trst

[Hayrack]

So they created 2 glyphs, added an old NW reward and a single forma for those 20 players who enjoy Conclave? Ok, I guess. This candy cane tastes salty.

I have a proposal for new challeges: "Join a single Conclave match in a month", "Hit somebody who is flying at least once in a year", "Score a kill without slam attack", "Play 3 consecutive matches with the same lobby", "Get joined while waiting in a lobby", "PLAY AT LEAST A SINGLE MATCH OF L U N A R O IBEGUPLZ".

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hayrack

[CephalonCarnage]

Right now conclave is as balanced as its possible to be - everyone has the same equipment and stats. And its still bad.

the problem is the mechanics, you either mash movement keys, jump and fly like a demented sparrow or you lose. Its terrible. It works when you're curb-stomping grineer but between players its frustrating at best, simply annoying at worse. That's why it will *never* be popular.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Uh, well, I think there are a few different issues here. Personally I don't play Conclave, but I also don't want it removed, I know there are some that do, and I don't agree with them, and a lot of the subjects brought up here... Well they tend to be more complicated and nuanced. 

For example... something can be clunky, and poorly designed and executed... but still be fun and enjoyable. I've played a lot of jank games in the past, that I could appreciate for one reason or the other, or come to appreciate aspects of. Likewise, people putting in time and effort into a system, doesn't mean that its good or can't be improved either. To be clear, I understand why there can be defensive attitudes, because some people can be overly dismissive and reductive of experiences they personally do not care for, even if some others find merit and positivity. Just its also worth noting that "hate" and criticism isn't always blind either. 

So to repeat myself a little, I personally I don't think Conclave should be removed, and, I'd even sort of like to experience it and engage with it, just... when I first started Warframe, cross play wasn't a thing and my region is relatively small, and I couldn't get good matchmaking. I'm also a bit generally weary of PVP and the kinds of players it can attract. I like games when the people I am interacting with, are chill, and I am sure there are some chill Conclave people, but it does feel like there would still be a lot of hoops and effort to engage well. More effort than should be required. So to my perception, the game has balance issues, barriers to entry, like match making that are due to technology, and for some, sure, if you are willing to put up with all that, and persist you might find upsides but... Not everyones threshold is the same. I say this as someone who actually likes and enjoys Disruption, and even Defection, as well as some other popularising modes (Circuit for another example).

It probably also doesn't help a lot of people seem to only engage in Conclave to max it out and get certain rewards, and thats kind of... it has pros and cons, but one con is, you have people who are participating who don't really want to participate. I heard from a few sources that the "meta" for the snowball fight use to be... both teams just not doing anything. What about those that actually want to enjoy the experience though? Creates a bad situation, its why I personally don't like when certain rewards are tied too exclusively to one source, made time gated and on long rotation. 

I actually do personally wish, DE did invest a little bit more into Conclave but... like... not to the detriment of the people who do the main PVE stuff. Which should be possible, like I think they could get some outside help, and people who specialise in more dedicated PVE to refresh and update the system, to improve it for those that already enjoy it, and potentially make it more approachable for those cynical towards it. Avoid hype and making it a big update or anything though, and controversial, but I would decouple it from its rewards and make them available elsewhere. If you can make the mode inviting and fun, first... I think it would make the mode healthier... Then once it has a stronger more solid base, you can build on it, including some more exclusive rewards. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Scrapping it is fine by me, if only so that i can bring up the news console in the orbiter without having to basically stand on top of it, otherwise if i'm facing it but still closer to the conclave console, it brings up conclave instead which i dont want.

DE can quite easily throw Conclave rewards into the Steel Path shop, so theres no excuse not to move things over. 

The main fact though is that PvP can't be improved without it being detrimental to PvE content creation, and DE aren't about to hire a dedicated PvP dev team. There are also countless better, and in some cases also FREE games that have way better PvP, so competitive types will just go play those instead. As a result of thesefactors, conclave is never getting reworked and barely anyone will care if it gets scrapped. If DE ever had to do it, or if conclave ever caused more trouble than it's worth like Trials did, it'll be gone in a heartbeat, bet on it.

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, S.Dust said:

Why are people so desperate to remove something that is enjoyed even if it's only by a few; more so why are people so determined to have conclave rott, plenty of games thrive while offering both PvE and PvP. I'd argue those games do somewhat better publicity-wise because they're more fun to watch so content creators flock to them.

Not to be blunt but they ask for it to be removed for the same reason you imply it shouldnt rot. Neither they nor you understand that either would be a waste of resources in the end.

For those that want to see improvements. The playerbase is too small (too small isnt descriptive enough even) to spend resources on and the resources needed to allow the playerbase to grow would simply be too big. Just look in the other thread where a person claims there are plenty of dedicated servers and presenting a list of 50(!), in a game with hundreds and hundreds of thousands to potentially millions of active players passing through it each single day. To even give a chance for a PvP mode to take off we'd need thousands of servers, or atleast servers to allow for thousands of matches to be played on dedicated servers at any point of the day. Right now, the 50 "dedicated" servers provide space for a whooping 400 players out of 100k+ at any point in time during a 24h period. There isnt even a chance for the mode to be played more or less, unless you settle with peer-to-peer S#&$e.

For those that want to see it removed. Utterly pointless, since it doesnt affect any of us negatively by simply being there for those that might want to use it as it is. No reason to remove anything from them. It would just cost resources to do so since they'd have to work on removing the code to save space. Which likely would result in little space saved since most of the PvP is used elsewhere in the game when it comes to tiles and mods and so on. So the work to remove it wouldnt really justify the end result compared to just keeping it there to be used.

So in the end, it should simply be left there to decay, rot or whatever you wanna call it, since atleast then you can play it if you like.

For me it wouldnt matter how much they alter the PvP if in the end I'm not guaranteed to play on a regional dedicated stable server. There is a reason I'm a Battlefield player and not a CoD pleb. Though BF has degraded over the years when it comes to proper server options for players, which is why I've avoided the newer installements since I played Battlefront where they removed the server list and introduced a "hot seat" matchmaker instead. Resulting in horrible servers at times.

Edited December 3, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[ReddyDisco]

Warframe has existed for 10 years without pvp being a factor, there's no reason to spend any resources on it now, better to scrap it tbh. 

[----Legacy----]

19 hours ago, S.Dust said:

People complain that PvP in Warframe is clunky and can never work while also putting up a wall of vitriol whenever a player who enjoys conclave even a little suggests putting resources work into it.

I think a big part of the issue is how warframe PvE can be roflstomped on just by choosing a proper setup in the arsenal screen and then doing the usual "hold w + LMB and mash E1234(5) to win", so many people jump into conclave expecting to  nuke barely moving enemies 50m away through walls with infinite energy while being immune to damage themselves... Only to find themselves in a mode where precise aiming and repositioning through the use of parkour actually matter since there's no (permanent) damage immunity and infinite energy isn't a thing.

Won't deny that some details of the game itself such as hitboxes and hurtboxes sometimes not being consistent with their respective models on top of client side detection make the mode harder to get into since, as long as a player hits someone in their end, hits will count and then damage will be transferred to the target, reducing time to react and in many scenarios making things look like if the enemy was shooting log sized bullets through walls and giving the -usually wrong- impression of hacks.

19 hours ago, S.Dust said:

I'm curious what people think happens if conclave is removed. There's no guarantee they allow you to obtain its rewards in other ways, arcane helmets are in the game but unobtainable so are many other rewards from past events.

I'll laugh so much if DE removes conclave *BUT* decides to make its cosmetics rewards unobtainble just like Trial Sekharas.

19 hours ago, S.Dust said:

Why are people so desperate to remove something that is enjoyed even if it's only by a few

Because complaining about something one doesn't understand is a lot easier than trying to understand that thing.

[S.Dust]

27 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I'll laugh so much if DE removes conclave *BUT* decides to make its cosmetics rewards unobtainble just like Trial Sekharas.

You don't know how much satisfaction I would low key get out of that it would be the funniest thing ever. 

[Nira]

So apparently I played some conclave sometime in the past, because on my profile screen it says I have five conclave deaths and no kills 😆

I would be genuinely curious to see how the combat system translates to PvP matchup. If any regulars read this and fancy showing me the ropes sometime, I'm up for trying it (again).

Plus as someone who mains Harrow and Knell I find precision shooting immensely rewarding, much to the confusion of some pub players (I had one recently who asked why I bothered aiming in 2023) 😅

[MobyTheDuck]

18 hours ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

There really does need to be something done about, or looked at for PVP. despite not being a traditional PVP guy, I actually enjoyed it in destiny 2. But with warframe the movement is so clunky and the levels are so vertical it's just tiresome to move through the levels, not to mention engaging other players. I have no idea how much actual standing you get for a conclave mission, but in D2 you can do pretty much all your 'daily tasks' in like 3-5 missions IIRC, so it was only a little but each week you needed if you wanted to play PVP... for some reason I feel warframe PVP is going to be a significantly worse grind which turns people off.

The funny thing is, the Conclave grind was made WORSE with one of the few updates it got.

Quote

Affinity from kills increased by 500% in Conclave.
Affinity from kill modifiers increased by 25%-100% in Conclave.
Syndicate Standing from completing Conclave Daily Missions reduced by 50%.

This made kills go from rewarding nothing to a little bit of standing, but challenges were still the best way to get it. Lunaro was the only mode to not get nerfs.
Basically, they just gutted the amount of weekly standing you would get.

They removed all the fun modes (like Instagib, like I said) and removed the Potency/Affector rounds. These were basically "alerts" that would force certain rules for the any game played in the period they were active, and rewarded 2x the Standing plus 2x the end of round rewards.

Also, they removed Conclave mods being rewarded as end of round rewards, forcing players to spend the standing they just suffered to get to buy them.

[----Legacy----]

28 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

The funny thing is, the Conclave grind was made WORSE with one of the few updates it got.

This made kills go from rewarding nothing to a little bit of standing, but challenges were still the best way to get it. Lunaro was the only mode to not get nerfs.
Basically, they just gutted the amount of weekly standing you would get.

It's almost like if the devs were trying to discourage farming conclave standing through challengw and reward people who actively play the mode and manage to kill other players instead. 

Of course it's gonna look like "they gutted the amount of weekly standing" for people who don't want to play the mode, only its rewards.

28 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

They removed all the fun modes (like Instagib, like I said) and removed the Potency/Affector rounds. These were basically "alerts" that would force certain rules for the any game played in the period they were active, and rewarded 2x the Standing plus 2x the end of round rewards.

The issue with those affector rounds is how these also came with a damage increase for the weapons affected; like a mode where either melee or secondary would deal additional damage or the "overpowered" modificator which meant being in constant energy surge (increased passive energy regen) on top of increasing both, power range and strength for all players.

Instagib mode (Opticor variant) was fun, won't deny i'd gladly take it over snowday showdown or even over some other mode like Cephalon Capture since i'd really like to have it as another permanent mode which also provides an even ground in terms of power progression.

28 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Also, they removed Conclave mods being rewarded as end of round rewards, forcing players to spend the standing they just suffered to get to buy them.

Most of the conclave mods can be obtained through PvE, either from Sentients, Nightwave or some of the 6 main syndicates. Can't recall anything about the removal of random conclave mods from end of mission rewards and need to get that checked in a match before commenting on the matter.