Why do I see more negative criticism for Dagath than positives?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

I love her, alright? she's the first Warframe for me with a damage buffing ability that isn't a damage buff and actually works on acolytes, and other boss types...unlike Citrine's 4.

she's such an unorthodox Warframe with an armor strip ability as her ultimate, that also happens to be the highest base ability damage in the game.

her survivability is janky a little bit, relying on shield gating, but I managed to be saved by her third more times than not...if only there was a way to cut down the cooldown period using kills or something.

so I don't really understand why people think she's boring? why didn't you think Kullervo is boring? he's like the 100th melee based Warframe that we've got.
her looks are incredible and spooky, her energy color shape is unique, she's easy to build...like what more could you ask for? (other than better survivability lol)

[(PSN)Unstar]

Worth considering:

• People are more likely to voice negative opinions than positive opinions; this is especially true on the internet.

[Letter13]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Worth considering:

• People are more likely to voice negative opinions than positive opinions; this is especially true on the internet.

Tends to be true in real life too.

[Zebiko]

I subsumed her 2 out for nova's null star ability. Then modded her like a slow nova build, max duration, negative range, and some strength. Then slap on some blue shards for armour or red shards for duration or power strength, This makes her very tank with a free death save. I have chosen this build because surviving is the priority, because a dead warframe does no damage. And only her 2 wants range. It hurts that her 2nd ability facilitates other good effects, like armour stripping, but I rather have a coozy play style that is super tanky. I like spamming her 1 too, because it's fun to use, but not that strong. 4th ability without armour stripping is kinda pointless, but still does good damage. Maxing range just so her 2 feels okay to use isn't great either.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

I subsumed her 2 out for nova's null star ability. Then modded her like a slow nova build, max duration, negative range, and some strength. Then slap on some blue shards for armour or red shards for duration or power strength, This makes her very tank with a free death save. I have chosen this build because surviving is the priority, because a dead warframe does no damage. And only her 2 wants range. It hurts that her 2nd ability facilitates other good effects, like armour stripping, but I rather have a coozy play style that is super tanky. I like spamming her 1 too, because it's fun to use, but not that strong. 4th ability without armour stripping is kinda pointless, but still does good damage. Maxing range just so her 2 feels okay to use isn't great either.

weird decision to remove her priority damage ability...if anything, replace her 1 since it's not that important really, and nobody like slows anymore.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Worth considering:

• People are more likely to voice negative opinions than positive opinions; this is especially true on the internet.

well in Warframe's case, do players and youtubers mostly do this so that DE can notice and tweak what's "wrong" about them? because I don't think this ever worked out...
it might work on a warframe who was actually bad like Hydroid but she's far from that.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-12-17 at 6:34 PM, Letter13 said:

Tends to be true in real life too.

Yes, as unfortunate as that is. 😔

 

On 2023-12-17 at 6:46 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

well in Warframe's case, do players and youtubers mostly do this so that DE can notice and tweak what's "wrong" about them? because I don't think this ever worked out...
it might work on a warframe who was actually bad like Hydroid but she's far from that.

The YouTubers and many (not all) pessimistic players usually have an agenda that does not, and has never, matched the vision DE has for the game. Their criticisms are disconnected, so the goal is usually to force a bending from DE, in order to get more of what those players want. It's a very risky tactic because it usually involves bashing, trolling and overall reducing the morale of those who work on the game (whether those player realize it or not). In return, DE may feel obligated to throw bones in their direction to lower the temperature, but that is actually a motivating gift to those players as well.

Unfortunately, it's a necessary mechanic for DE because not all ideas are bad. It just sucks that the potential new players gravitate to YouTube and here for insight and, like it has been said already, negativity takes center stage far faster and easier than uplifting. 

[Voltage]

57 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Worth considering:

• People are more likely to voice negative opinions than positive opinions; this is especially true on the internet.

Yep. It's also worth noting that in the context of a video game, a positive opinion is just play time in silence. If someone's playing your game more and not really writing about it, you can safely assume they are enjoying it. For Warframe you look at the flavor of feedback in contrast to the scope of updates.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Voltage

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, Zebiko said:

I subsumed her 2 out for nova's null star ability. Then modded her like a slow nova build, max duration, negative range, and some strength. Then slap on some blue shards for armour or red shards for duration or power strength, This makes her very tank with a free death save. I have chosen this build because surviving is the priority, because a dead warframe does no damage. And only her 2 wants range. It hurts that her 2nd ability facilitates other good effects, like armour stripping, but I rather have a coozy play style that is super tanky. I like spamming her 1 too, because it's fun to use, but not that strong. 4th ability without armour stripping is kinda pointless, but still does good damage. Maxing range just so her 2 feels okay to use isn't great either.

Play how you want, but this build looks absolutely bizarre to me.  You don't need to max range to make her 2 worth using.  Indeed, having it slightly smaller means you end up casting it more frequently, thereby regularly refreshing your shields.

 

It's cool that you've found a way to turn her into a tank.  I prefer to build her towards her strengths though: spammy debuffs and nuking, with shield gating and a safety net to keep her afloat.

[SDGDen]

43 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The YouTubers and many (not all) pessimistic players usually have an agenda that does not, and has never, matched the vision DE has for the game.

this is actually not entirely true.

the game did shift in the direction of more acceptance of powercreep over time as players got very vocal over nerfs back in the early days (like 2015-2017 era), DE used to balance through equal nerfing and buffing, now they RARELY nerf and when they do, people post actual death threats online about it (i've seen a couple about the shieldgate dragon key nerf, and with that one they even gave them a new way to do it so the only real nerf was "you now need to give up a mod slot for it")

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I love her, alright? she's the first Warframe for me with a damage buffing ability that isn't a damage buff and actually works on acolytes, and other boss types...unlike Citrine's 4.

don't really need Citrines 4 when I can just pop her 3, and shoot the acolyte while the Prismatic Gem melts their health. costs less energy and makes Acolytes immediately regret their decision to attack.

I like Dagath, though I find she plays very similar to Sevagoth in that her 1 and 2 do most of the actual killing, since her 4 takes a while to cast and only really works best in corridors and hallways. I just think that it's becoming even more evident than it already was before that DE are really struggling to make frames that are unique now, due to the massive amount of overlapping themes we already have. I'm more interested in seeing old frames get reworked than yet another new frame that I'll have to wait 2 or 3 years before they get a skin or a prime so I can fashion them properly..

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Acolytes

Not just acolytes I forgot to add, Doom works on Archons too!

[SneakyErvin]

No idea why people dislike Dagath. She is one of the strongest frames if you want a caster.

I replaced her 3 with Fragmanted Blast which allows me to utilize Arcane Blessing while having infinite energy aswell for horsing around. It also enables me to use Health Conversion, which together with a few armor shards makes her more than tanky enough to not have to rely on shield gate. I still benefit from shield gate since I run her as a full caster, but a single augur mod or brief respite is more than enough. The reason her 3 got replaced is because I barely use weapons on her and the res is 100% pointless since I use Unairu. 

Energy Nexus was also a lovely addition for her in situations with accidental drain, since it gets me back to reapplying Fractured Blast in roughly 2 seconds.

[Skoomaseller]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No idea why people dislike Dagath. She is one of the strongest frames if you want a caster.

I replaced her 3 with Fragmanted Blast which allows me to utilize Arcane Blessing while having infinite energy aswell for horsing around. It also enables me to use Health Conversion, which together with a few armor shards makes her more than tanky enough to not have to rely on shield gate. I still benefit from shield gate since I run her as a full caster, but a single augur mod or brief respite is more than enough. The reason her 3 got replaced is because I barely use weapons on her and the res is 100% pointless since I use Unairu. 

Energy Nexus was also a lovely addition for her in situations with accidental drain, since it gets me back to reapplying Fractured Blast in roughly 2 seconds.

I still think equilibrium is better but Energy Nexus just dropped for me today, so maybe it + zenurik might be a nice combo on dagath, considering her nature as a caster frame... 🤔

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I still think equilibrium is better but Energy Nexus just dropped for me today, so maybe it + zenurik might be a nice combo on dagath, considering her nature as a caster frame... 🤔

It depends on the build. Equilibrium ended up overkill for me, so I already had it replaced with Augur Secrets, but I didnt really need the strength from Secrets, so replaced it with Nexus when I got it. I dont really need Nexus either since I have both good range and high strength in my Dagath build with maxed efficiency too, so Fragmented Blast is just popping out orbs like rabbits in heat. Nexus is just there to get me back to casting quickly.

It's like on my spamalanche Frost, I ran his +crit on frozen augment, but replaced it with Nexus. Because uhm... why do I need to crit poor defenseless targets even more often and harder when they already get erased due to having no armor? Fun mod to use on my Saryn aswell now that I had to hit +100% strength on her for guaranteed corrosive proccing. Allowed me to switch around mods and free up alot of stats by going from maxed efficiency to nexus+primed flow. Works really well since I run Nourish on her, and her most expensive skills are already cheaper at baseline compared to all other frames (toxin lash 50, Miasma 75 instead of 75/100). So with the new modding to hit guaranteed corrosive procs on spores I get uhm 9 energy per second from nexus if my math is correct (might very well not be cos I'm math blind (fancy word for stupid)).

[Joezone619]

Do you, understand what criticism is? It's not meant to be positive, that's called praise. Criticism is the voicing of negative opinions, constructive criticism is the same but with the intention of informing others where improvements need to be made.

[AGGREBEE]

Dagath just doesn't do anything special enough to warrant going out of my way to use her. She fulfils no role or niche that another frame doesn't already do better. I might like her more if she looked prettier (fashionframe is the true endgame) but for some reason DE thought it would be funny if they based her helmet off of a brainlet meme

Spoiler

But if you like Dagath, don't let me stop you from enjoying her. More power to you. Spam those horsies 🐎🐎🐎🐎🐎🐎

[ShogunGunshow]

She's ... fine?

Like most frames released recently, she's more about theme than functionality. We already have so many frames that fill most gameplay niches that it's hard for a new frame to make an impact.

[Raarsi]

On 2023-12-17 at 1:21 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

so I don't really understand why people think she's boring?

Could be her aesthetic.  Could also be that she does exactly what it says on the tin: high damage, not too much else.  Could maybe be because haters gonna keep chuggin their precious salty haterade.  Who knows.

On 2023-12-17 at 1:21 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

why didn't you think Kullervo is boring?

I'm thinking slash procs for days, a better teleport ability than any other frame, a no-shield frame with simpler on-demand mitigation that visibly works, a more obscure lore inspiration, and a considerably different aesthetic compared to most frames.

[Almxce]

On 2023-12-17 at 6:21 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I love her, alright? she's the first Warframe for me with a damage buffing ability that isn't a damage buff and actually works on acolytes, and other boss types...unlike Citrine's 4.

she's such an unorthodox Warframe with an armor strip ability as her ultimate, that also happens to be the highest base ability damage in the game.

her survivability is janky a little bit, relying on shield gating, but I managed to be saved by her third more times than not...if only there was a way to cut down the cooldown period using kills or something.

so I don't really understand why people think she's boring? why didn't you think Kullervo is boring? he's like the 100th melee based Warframe that we've got.
her looks are incredible and spooky, her energy color shape is unique, she's easy to build...like what more could you ask for? (other than better survivability lol)

I like her a lot a well. Melee frame with some Caster style abilities. She's very much "straightforward" in terms of gameplay/abilities so someone looking for a novel experience isn't going to enjoy her much but not every Warframe needs to have some crazy nuances or be insanely flashy imo. I would also take some of the complaints from people on forums/reddit/youtube with a several grains of salt, sometimes a few youtubers say something and then people just run with it as standard while not actually having direct experience themselves.

[Cerenax]

On 2023-12-17 at 3:21 PM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I love her, alright? she's the first Warframe for me with a damage buffing ability that isn't a damage buff and actually works on acolytes, and other boss types...unlike Citrine's 4.

she's such an unorthodox Warframe with an armor strip ability as her ultimate, that also happens to be the highest base ability damage in the game.

her survivability is janky a little bit, relying on shield gating, but I managed to be saved by her third more times than not...if only there was a way to cut down the cooldown period using kills or something.

so I don't really understand why people think she's boring? why didn't you think Kullervo is boring? he's like the 100th melee based Warframe that we've got.
her looks are incredible and spooky, her energy color shape is unique, she's easy to build...like what more could you ask for? (other than better survivability lol)

I like her, but I really hate the fact that some buffs like molt vigor and power drain don't work on her 3rd. It's really something they ought to fix.

[Sporthand]

There will be always negative views, but To improve yourself, you gotta learn from criticism! Friends, parents, and teachers, who have negative opinions, do not mean you are bad game developers or players. They simply tell you to be improved in this cruel world!

Don't trust anyone who praises you without criticism. In the end, they will backstab you behind. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Sporthand

[Skoomaseller]

On 2023-12-18 at 2:21 AM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I love her, alright? she's the first Warframe for me with a damage buffing ability that isn't a damage buff and actually works on acolytes, and other boss types...unlike Citrine's 4.

she's such an unorthodox Warframe with an armor strip ability as her ultimate, that also happens to be the highest base ability damage in the game.

her survivability is janky a little bit, relying on shield gating, but I managed to be saved by her third more times than not...if only there was a way to cut down the cooldown period using kills or something.

so I don't really understand why people think she's boring? why didn't you think Kullervo is boring? he's like the 100th melee based Warframe that we've got.
her looks are incredible and spooky, her energy color shape is unique, she's easy to build...like what more could you ask for? (other than better survivability lol)

haven't really seen much criticism for dagath, just mostly people saying her 4 hits like a goddamned freight train.

WHICH GIVES ME AN IDEA FOR WARFRAME 1999: Dagath Conductor Skin, that transforms her 4 into the subway train we saw. With sound effects and all.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Prof-Dante]

2 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

WHICH GIVES ME AN IDEA FOR WARFRAME 1999: Dagath Conductor Skin, that transforms her 4 into the subway train we saw. With sound effects and all.

absolutely beautiful! lol