the discution about weather a warframe is good for level cap needs to stop

[spider_enigma]

every time someone bring up a frame is good for 99.99999% of content, one of you level cap worriers try to tell people they are wrong

if a frame kills the map in 2 buttons at 400 and the only rewards you need are at 400 why does 10,000 matter? please just go play some other game

and just because u get enjoyment out of a thing, doesnt mean it matters to anyone else and i can tell u no one cares

ur becoming annoying

[Venus-Venera]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb spider_enigma:

every time someone bring up a frame is good for 99.99999% of content, one of you level cap worriers try to tell people they are wrong

if a frame kills the map in 2 buttons at 400 and the only rewards you need are at 400 why does 10,000 matter? please just go play some other game

and just because u get enjoyment out of a thing, doesnt mean it matters to anyone else and i can tell u no one cares

ur becoming annoying

The people who say something like that definitely don't read it here. but create their own topics.

and usually the run ends after 25 minutes at the latest. host migration does not allow long runs and the risk of losing everything is far too high.

[Zakkhar]

33 minutes ago, spider_enigma said:

ur becoming annoying

People who tell others what they can or cannot discuss are the true annoyance.

Edited April 13 by Zakkhar

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I think only people who have reached level cap in real life, should be able to talk about level cap in Warframe. Its common sense really. 

Of course the only way to get to level cap in real life is to subscribe to my Book, "How Sigma's Grind to Level Cap in Real Life by Slightconfuzzled: A True Story about Reaching Level Cap in Your Own Terms, by Creating Your Own Terms, and Not By Following Society's Terms like a Sheep" and the sequel to my Book "How Sigma's Buy Books about How to Grind to Level Cap in Real Life by Slightconfuzzled the Sequel: Part Deus. A Fictional Meta Narrative about Meta Commentary around Sigma Grind Mind Sets and How it Influences Cultural and Societal Norms and how the Sigma Surpasses them, and Gets to Level Cap, by Buying Books Which Tell You What to Do, but Not in a Way thats Ironic, The Lakers Beat the Supersonics!"

Though the latter might be made into a movie, so if books aren't your thing, you might just want to wait for the Netflix version. 

[Traumtulpe]

Limbo is a great frame around level 25. His abilities oneshot the entire map, and he can tank level 25 enemies all day. He's much better than Mesa at level 25.

Oh, what is that? Level 25 is irrelevant and Limbo sucks? Why do you get to decide which level we use as a measuring stick?

[Slayer-.]

My level cap is even higher when I fill my big glass beer mug with enough milo and milk mixed that it stands up above the glass level, a yummy crunchie frothy, that beats level cap every time in real life. 

With the right build and player determination, just about any frame can go level cap.

[Rathalio]

Especially when with all things considered, every warframes kinda suck at level cap and that's what should make it interesting. It's more a matter of having a few tools or not that are still relevant when you get to this point.

[SneakyErvin]

I'm fine with them discussing it, but they should at the same time not expect frames to be balanced around that fringe activity. Though they are often oblivious to that most people dont engage in that activity, hence why there were so many guides when I started playing that were completely pointless useless, since they were all about level cap. Same reason why so many people ended up dying in lower content, because they had an endless build revolving around simply not getting hit. And I suspect some people still use that today. Which is why we have so many "health tanking isnt viable" misconceptions, since they heard someone say it in reference to really high content. Even though health tanking is viable for hours in SP.

Right now the highest levels that arent optional would be those of elite deeps, since the minimum requirement to get those rewards is to complete elite deeps, simple as that. So frames should be strong enough to handle that with a proper build. Anything beyond that would be optional and outside of the balance scope I'd say.

Yes yes, someone will surely step in here and say elite deep is optional. But it is no more optional than going to rotation C of X mode if you want Y reward. What makes endless optional is that you can jump out and reset and do it from the start again against levels you can handle, the slight loss is that it wont be as efficienct, but you can stil get the same rewards and the same amount of the, just a wee bit slower.

Edited April 13 by SneakyErvin

[ominumi]

These same people keep saying wiping the map with one button is too boring. Then they go into a Grendel mission where they can't wipe the map with one button saying that mission is boring. 

People just like to stroke their own ego. Let it just be that.

Edited April 13 by ominumi

[ReddyDisco]

It's the youtubers making clikbait videos about 'Dante LvL 10,000 EZ', 'THIS WEAPON IS OP!!', ;YOU'RE PLAYING THIS FRAME WRONG'. generally not many care about lvl cap because there's no need or reward.

[UnstarPrime]

4 hours ago, spider_enigma said:

every time someone bring up a frame is good for 99.99999% of content, one of you level cap worriers try to tell people they are wrong

With respect, you're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about: telling other people their opinions are wrong.  Why not be the better person and let people have their opinions?

Especially when the vast majority of the users on this forum don't care about level cap.  You're already in the majority here.  If someone is so myopic that they say "frame X isn't good because level cap" you basically don't even need to provide a rebuttal; the majority already disagrees with that statement.

Whether it's normal star chart, Steel Path, Elite Archimedea, level cap, etc, how "good" a frame seems is going to be relative to that content.  Let people care about the content they care about, and do what you can to not step on others' toes when you play the game differently.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

56 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

It's the youtubers making clikbait videos about 'Dante LvL 10,000 EZ', 'THIS WEAPON IS OP!!', ;YOU'RE PLAYING THIS FRAME WRONG'. generally not many care about lvl cap because there's no need or reward.

They depend on clickbait and their cred to get views, and thus pay bills. Warframe doesn't have a lot of difficulty, so they have to make their own or go to the far reaches of the game to find it.

See, there are a couple of ways to succeed at Warframe content creation and get cred/respect/prestige in the community:

-There's being knowledgeable and informative, putting out well-made educational guides (such as creators like TheKengineer).

-There's being entertaining and funny to watch (Triburos or Sabuuchi, for example).

-There's creative and in-depth buildcraft (Aznvasionplays, Ninjase stand out)

-and then there's levelcap hard-grind minmaxxing that communicates credibility as pushing the game to its limits (GazTTV, Knightmareframe, so on)

There's overlap across the niches, of course, but that's generally how it goes. Unfortunately, there's a significant bias towards the clickbait takes, because capslock "THIS WARFRAME IS DEAD NOW!" "DE NERFED THIS!" "DANTE IS KILL!" generally gets more engagement than a calm and levelheaded discussion about whatever the topic of the day is.

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Unfortunately, there's a significant bias towards the clickbait takes, because capslock "THIS WARFRAME IS DEAD NOW!" "DE NERFED THIS!" "DANTE IS KILL!" generally gets more engagement than a calm and levelheaded discussion about whatever the topic of the day is.

Youtubers: 'Oh no we can't have well mannered discussions and criticisms of an update, it has to be blown out of proportion and let the players know DE shot their dog'. 

i know why they do it but it's always cringe when those are the type of videos that pop up first

[0_The_F00l]

Such players are usually just looking for validation of some sort , best to ignore them.

One is of course free to theorise and optimize , but doesnt mean everyone needs to only go for only that specific scenario.

Edited April 13 by 0_The_F00l

[Raarsi]

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Though the latter might be made into a movie, so if books aren't your thing, you might just want to wait for the Netflix version.

Oh yeah, because Netflix does everything ri--*remembers Cowboy Bebop*--erm, wait a minute...

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm fine with them discussing it, but they should at the same time not expect frames to be balanced around that fringe activity.

This is my take as well, and I think it can't be emphasized enough that it is fringe content. 

Ultimately, I think we as the playerbase need to collectively determine at what point is there a happy medium for content between difficulty and common access for frames to be adequately tested.  What the highest level is for mobs that the overwhelming majority of players commonly play at, whether it be SO/ESO or some regular point at SP (maybe Mot for example) as well as what sort of mission types a given frame is better for; these are the things that I believe should be used for gauging warframe effectiveness.  At some point, I'd love to see the sort of parameters DE sets for testing frames prior to release or adjustments.

Of course, the problem there lies in the fact that everyone has their own opinion and god forbid players in this game do anything collectively when it comes to testing stuff like warframes...

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

10 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Limbo is a great frame around level 25. His abilities oneshot the entire map, and he can tank level 25 enemies all day. He's much better than Mesa at level 25.

Oh, what is that? Level 25 is irrelevant and Limbo sucks? Why do you get to decide which level we use as a measuring stick?

No, OP has a better point than people are giving them credit for. We've all seen level cap and general high level endurance players complain about the state of warframes, weapons and even crowd control limitations when playing at really high levels. Their requests for changes are usually selfishly aimed at those levels which, whenever DE caters to them, we end up with the power creep and overly laxed buffs that trivializes the standard game. Your Limbo example is a perfect place to discuss that, as we've recently had a slew of threads about how CC frames are "unusable"...only to find out the player meant unusable because of high level eximus units. They, therefore, want those eximus units to be able to sustain a CC, this further crippling the game. 

Could OP say it in a nicer way? Of course! However, do they try to address an actual, troubling issue? Of course!!! The game shouldn't be made to be easier for level cap and those players shouldn't be asking for that. The challenge is the point, no?

[PR1D3]

Ok. I'm saying it.

weather =/= whether

Out of all the things I deal with in the forums, unformatted posts, bad grammar, and bad spelling is the thing that triggers me. We're communicating strictly in text. Please, please, please proof read your posts. 

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

47 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Ok. I'm saying it.

weather =/= whether

Out of all the things I deal with in the forums, unformatted posts, bad grammar, and bad spelling is the thing that triggers me. We're communicating strictly in text. Please, please, please proof read your posts. 

 

It could be that they speak a different language and just tried their best to translate. The message is understood though.

[Berzerkules]

53 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Ok. I'm saying it.

weather =/= whether

Out of all the things I deal with in the forums, unformatted posts, bad grammar, and bad spelling is the thing that triggers me. We're communicating strictly in text. Please, please, please proof read your posts. 

 

I came here looking for the forecast report at lvl 9999. I'm disappointed. 

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The challenge is the point, no?

What challenge? Just equip Revenant.

While Limbo can't attack enemies across the Rift and gets blasted by eximus abilities, Revenant is just invincible with no downsides.

Edited April 14 by Traumtulpe

[(PSN)rexis12]

Yeah Limbo sucks because his main ability fails to work on the enemies you want them to work against due to their high threat priority, and thus you're stuck with a Weapons Platform frame that has no inherent survivability against those High Priority Targets you are meant to 'handle' and aa buff that only exists through an Augment. 

At that point, just use any other Frame that can also be a weapons platform and have their abilities function against those priority targets.

And don't even get me started on "But it stops guns!" When there are factions that are melee based and Exists whose whole subgenre is that they use melee and move fast. Which your ability that is meant to stop them from moving is useless against. 

It's even worse when most of the time CC will slow down a game mode to a crawl, due to needing kills to progress.

Yeah thanks Limbo for Stasis the whole tileset, now we gotta look through each and every room to find that one Enemy to kill to progress the Defense Wave. 

[AzureTerra]

Weather frame is good theme ~ although a number of frames already touch on components of the weather one wholly about it would be good

[Venus-Venera]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb (PSN)rexis12:

Yeah Limbo sucks because his main ability fails to work on the enemies you want them to work against due to their high threat priority, and thus you're stuck with a Weapons Platform frame that has no inherent survivability against those High Priority Targets you are meant to 'handle' and aa buff that only exists through an Augment. 

At that point, just use any other Frame that can also be a weapons platform and have their abilities function against those priority targets.

And don't even get me started on "But it stops guns!" When there are factions that are melee based and Exists whose whole subgenre is that they use melee and move fast. Which your ability that is meant to stop them from moving is useless against. 

It's even worse when most of the time CC will slow down a game mode to a crawl, due to needing kills to progress.

Yeah thanks Limbo for Stasis the whole tileset, now we gotta look through each and every room to find that one Enemy to kill to progress the Defense Wave. 

great attitude. And what about people who like to play with limbo?
Should everyone dance to your tune now? or do you decide which Warframe people have to play? 👎
The whole thing is so ridiculous and childish... even since 2013/2014 there have been embarrassing complaints that frost bubble is the biggest evil.

[Traumtulpe]

12 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

And what about people who like to play with limbo?

Please god play solo or don't ever use your abilities if you want to play Limbo. Nobody needs invincible enemies (yep, that's Limbo) / to have your weapons disabled unless you backflip every couple seconds (also Limbo) / to be unable to activate the mobile defense objective (you guessed it, it's your boy Limbo!). And for all that hassle, he provides *nothing* of any value.

And now I remember Limbo from years ago, where he would just completely disable any and all guns of his entire team. You better had a good melee equipped, because that's all Limbo was gonna let you use! Truly the king of griefing.

Edited April 14 by Traumtulpe

[RichardKam]

14小时前 , Traumtulpe 说:

Limbo is a great frame around level 25. His abilities oneshot the entire map, and he can tank level 25 enemies all day. He's much better than Mesa at level 25.

Oh, what is that? Level 25 is irrelevant and Limbo sucks? Why do you get to decide which level we use as a measuring stick?

Because even in regular starchart enemy level can be up to 100, not 25. It was a joke, I know.

A reasonable benchmark at most is SP level below 500 or 1k, or regular starchart archon hunt or EDA. It covers almost 99% of the game contents and is the highest power level most players will find themselves in. For endless modes, most of the rewards follow AABC rotation except disruption, and there is no particular advantage of going beyond 4 (or 8, so to speak) rotations because you receive nothing extra. There is nothing new shiny for you beyond that, other than stretching your muscles. The only exception might be SP circuit if you want to reach tier 10 in one go.

That's why using level cap as benchmark is stupid. There is nothing extra at level cap. You need to build for that purely for the sake of it. That's why when discussing whether a frame is good or not, context is important.

"I can use XXX frame at level cap. Here is how I do it. So XXX frame is fine in terms of power". Congratulations. Very nice. Good for you.

"XXX frame is a piece of trash because it just got one shot and is utterly non-functional beyond level 5000". Who cares about level 5000? What's the point?

See the difference?