Would you be in favor of Additional sources of Invigorations per week?

[Zahnrad]

This was something I was just thinking about. Obviously we have the Helminth system for Invigorations but what if other content outside of it, enabled you to buff/power up a Warframe for a week?

There are two obvious sources I can think of which may or may not encourage the usage of off-meta frames.

 

Archon Hunts, if you complete the Final stage of an Archon Hunt using the Buffed Warframe or weapons selected, you keep those same buffs for each correct item you used for a full week duration.

Likewise for Deep Archimedea or Elite Deep Archimedea. Though since Archimedea doesn't come with buffs, they may need to be generated at the end of the mission string.

 

If you want a lore reason? The Archon Shards which are already known to enhance Warframes, leaves residual energy behind that takes a week to fully disipate, allowing you to benefit during that time window.

Same for Deep Archimedea, as it is a source of Archon Shards that have been left isolated for potential millenia.

[MaxTunnerX]

Invigo..what? No, doesnt ring a bell. Smells like dead content.

[PollexMessier]

The invigoration system is... not great. We're plenty strong enough as it is. I haven't touched it at all since using it to level up my helminth. I honestly forgot it existed.

It's probably worth using to make Deep archemidia a bit easier if you get bad rolls... but that's about it. I don't think we really need more sources of it.

The only time I really had fun with it was when it gave me Parkour Velocity and I could leap across entire rooms in one jump. I love parkour velocity but a mod or arcane slot is too valuable to use on it. Would love a movement slot on warframes. (Yeah I know that's what the Exilus slot originally was but DE blew that one)

[quxier]

23 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

The invigoration system is... not great. We're plenty strong enough as it is. I haven't touched it at all since using it to level up my helminth. I honestly forgot it existed.

Maybe we don't need but maybe we want it. That's difference.

However, imho, they need to rework it. Most of the time I won't use it because it's generic +strength or weak +damage that doesn't change a thing for frame. And doing it 10 times is.. meh.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Zahnrad said:

Archon Hunts, if you complete the Final stage of an Archon Hunt using the Buffed Warframe or weapons selected, you keep those same buffs for each correct item you used for a full week duration.

That's a neat idea.  Archon Hunts could use some more long term incentives to them in general.

I don't feel the DA idea fits as well.   We're pretty thoroughly incentivized to do the content anyway, as well as to use the weapons and frames offered.

Edited Thursday at 09:30 PM by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I'm all for more invigorations. Greatest system ever. 

I'm rocking a 200 melee CC and 1000 health on Kullervo right now and it's nice. 

[Rawbeard]

I used it once shortly after release. 

it's just not worth the hassle. and obviously I would not oppose more sources for those who care. you do you.

[CephalonOlphus]

I check my invigorations every week on the off chance i get a particularly fun one, or for testing purposes like the 75% Parkour and 5 jump resets Chroma I got a few weeks ago.

Turns out chroma with 5 jump resets loses the bullet jump from his passive second jump

[(PSN)robotwars7]

sure, why not. don't really need the power but some invigs grant dumb fun (sprint speed on gauss, melee crit chance on Kullervo etc.), so for increased odds on getting the fun ones, sure.

[ominumi]

Nope hard pass NO! Invig is to tease people so they will try out some other frame. It's already bad enough when we get an Invig frame with reactant buff. Don't need to stack anymore stuff on top of all that.

[(PSN)Cephalon_Scarlet]

I have used invigoration like once or twice can't remember what that is to be honest

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I'm neutral to positive on the idea. I know its a semi unpopular feature, (at least on the Forums, it would be interesting to see data from a DE internal data perspective), but I think Invigorations are silly fun, and I still use them a lot. I think many players underestimate them, misunderstand them, and or apply a bit too much subjective personal and self centric preference upon them (they are bad because they aren't permanent, they are bad because I don't use more than 3 Warframes, and so everyone only uses only 3 Warframes etc), and such preferences on such a specific individual scale are valid and make sense just beyond that... 

That also being said, like many things in Warframe which gives us power, whether that be the Helminth subsume, regular Invigorations, Shards, Arcanes, Rivens, so on, a lot of such things, we don't have a vital need for, and sometimes I think some people start to lean too hard in the direction of what is "mandatory" or not, and even though I am personally fine with a little "power creep", I know many aren't, and even those that do like power creep, its the sort of thing that should be done carefully and consciously as far as game design, otherwise... (just think of hyperbolic extreme examples, that aren't necessarily realistic), so I also think we don't necessarily need additional ways of superbuffing Warframes. Plus "encouraging use of off meta" Warframe style ideas, are always going to be more complicated and watery anyway, because a lot of Warframe players personal approach and understanding of the meta, how they personally value and prioritise tool selection (including what Warframes they pick and regular use), can vary a lot even across those who may have similar goals, let alone different goals (which is why you will have disagreements about what Warframes are the strongest, nuke best, etc). Even just compare players who "main" a Warframe, and those who might pick and play 4 different Warframes across 90 minutes, and are always changing builds and tools up. 

I tended to wonder that Invigorations like Helminth in general, had multiple goals, with general fun being one, new ways to use tools another, a resource dump, for old or archaic resources another, another way to track data and see what community trends might occur to help give feedback to Devs another... Which could/would also be why/how additions could work as well, and it could be intended to potentially see more "off meta" usage, but eh, I wouldn't get too focused on that one single aspect, unless DE actually just stated it as the one single goal of the system. 

Short version though, is I think could be interesting, especially in the sense of weapons, which unlike Invigorations, don't have a direct counterpart. Mind you, I tend to actually prefer the more "silly" buffs Invigorations give, like Parkour and Sprint Speed. The buffs in other places, like Strength and Damage, I tend to think are a bit boring, outside certain Warframe setups. So I would probably still view it as inferior to Invigorations as far as the kinds of buffs available. 

[Xzorn]

I've entirely ignored that feature.

It doesn't really server a purpose in Warframe of today and even if it were around when Endurance runs were more popular. A lot of the gang probably wouldn't use it just like we often didn't use Ancient Healer Specters. It offsets the result of testing and min/maxing builds.

Wasn't playing when it was added so don't know it's intent but it strikes me a very detached concept.

[asdf3011]

I would like a way to reroll invigoration buffs themselves, still the incentive to try new frames but you can try for buffs that fit them better with added resources maybe? Keeping a buff after Archon hunt would also increase the odds of me trying the frames that have the buffs.

[0_The_F00l]

Considering its been months since I used it last , I don't find invigorations that essential.

It can happen that once in a blue moon i happen to see the right stats for the right frame at the right time and I will use it.

But it's not part of my regular use mechanics.

 

If by invigorations you mean a day long buff of our choice in a frame of our choice at a time of our choice I may consider it , but we already have so much power already ,

outside of some specific utility stat boosts , I don't know if it will be a good idea.

[ominumi]

4 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I'm neutral to positive on the idea. I know its a semi unpopular feature, (at least on the Forums, it would be interesting to see data from a DE internal data perspective), but I think Invigorations are silly fun, and I still use them a lot. I think many players underestimate them, misunderstand them, and or apply a bit too much subjective personal and self centric preference upon them (they are bad because they aren't permanent, they are bad because I don't use more than 3 Warframes, and so everyone only uses only 3 Warframes etc), and such preferences on such a specific individual scale are valid and make sense just beyond that... 

That also being said, like many things in Warframe which gives us power, whether that be the Helminth subsume, regular Invigorations, Shards, Arcanes, Rivens, so on, a lot of such things, we don't have a vital need for, and sometimes I think some people start to lean too hard in the direction of what is "mandatory" or not, and even though I am personally fine with a little "power creep", I know many aren't, and even those that do like power creep, its the sort of thing that should be done carefully and consciously as far as game design, otherwise... (just think of hyperbolic extreme examples, that aren't necessarily realistic), so I also think we don't necessarily need additional ways of superbuffing Warframes. Plus "encouraging use of off meta" Warframe style ideas, are always going to be more complicated and watery anyway, because a lot of Warframe players personal approach and understanding of the meta, how they personally value and prioritise tool selection (including what Warframes they pick and regular use), can vary a lot even across those who may have similar goals, let alone different goals (which is why you will have disagreements about what Warframes are the strongest, nuke best, etc). Even just compare players who "main" a Warframe, and those who might pick and play 4 different Warframes across 90 minutes, and are always changing builds and tools up. 

I tended to wonder that Invigorations like Helminth in general, had multiple goals, with general fun being one, new ways to use tools another, a resource dump, for old or archaic resources another, another way to track data and see what community trends might occur to help give feedback to Devs another... Which could/would also be why/how additions could work as well, and it could be intended to potentially see more "off meta" usage, but eh, I wouldn't get too focused on that one single aspect, unless DE actually just stated it as the one single goal of the system. 

Short version though, is I think could be interesting, especially in the sense of weapons, which unlike Invigorations, don't have a direct counterpart. Mind you, I tend to actually prefer the more "silly" buffs Invigorations give, like Parkour and Sprint Speed. The buffs in other places, like Strength and Damage, I tend to think are a bit boring, outside certain Warframe setups. So I would probably still view it as inferior to Invigorations as far as the kinds of buffs available. 

The big issue is having multiple source of Invig double stack or even triple stack if there is a third source. Having +10 Jumps is too powerful for some frames.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

34 minutes ago, ominumi said:

The big issue is having multiple source of Invig double stack or even triple stack if there is a third source. Having +10 Jumps is too powerful for some frames.

 

Sure, and I don't necessarily disagree, but I do think its a relative issue and so how large of an issue it will be, will also thus be relative. I think when they added a Second Arcane Adapter for Amps, Focus Schools, or Shards, weapon Arcanes, or Invigorations by themselves could be considered "too powerful" for some Warframes, but I also think when I get certain Invigoration Buffs for Kullervo, which make his already potent kit, hit even crazier Crit numbers, thats also "too powerful", but also "stupid silly fun", and I'll enjoy such a week, and eh, that its just limited to a week and not a permanent upgrade to his kit, and also one reliant on relative RNG, is a fine compromise. Again, just as far as subjective, personal outlook. 

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Imo useless system. But if others wanna use it. Get more recharges. Go for it.

[Drachnyn]

I use all my invigorations every sunday to improve my chances of getting an invigoration on an EDA frame. I think to improve the system the recurring resource costs should be removed since the buffs are only temporary.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, ominumi said:

The big issue is having multiple source of Invig double stack or even triple stack if there is a third source.

Right now, new invigorations can't be applied until the old one expires, but that seems awkward with multiple sources.  I'd think new invigorations should just replace existing ones. 

Alternate, more dangerous idea: allow invigorations to stack, but no more than one bonus at a time to any stat.

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Wasn't playing when it was added so don't know it's intent but it strikes me a very detached concept.

I think DE said it was a little incentive to get people to experiment with frames they might not otherwise.

When it was released, there was some datamining showing frames were being assigned values vaguely proportional with unpopularity.  The theory being that less popular frames would show up more often as invigoration options.   I don't know that this was ever well demonstrated or acknowledged officially, and if it was enabled  at that point, it may not work the same now.

 

[Xzorn]

38 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I think DE said it was a little incentive to get people to experiment with frames they might not otherwise.

When it was released, there was some datamining showing frames were being assigned values vaguely proportional with unpopularity.  The theory being that less popular frames would show up more often as invigoration options.   I don't know that this was ever well demonstrated or acknowledged officially, and if it was enabled  at that point, it may not work the same now.

 

Slightly off but curious. Datamining? I was under the impression DE made it ban worthy after the playable Umbra incident.
That choice bothered me since Datamining had shown previous flaws in drop tables. Most famously Ash Prime Systems.

I figure it was for something like that but after Sorties, Arbitrations, etc. You'd think they'd have gotten the hint that no one cares.
They had to resort to forcing players with Arcamedia and I personally still work around it cuz Vosfer is useless to me.

[KIREEK]

I would rather have perpetual invigorations instead, even if we could only select 1 warframe or 1 weapon with it.

I can also say that the current invigorations are meant to make players use certain warframes more often since not all warframes have the same % of beeing selected, think of Atlas and saryn, Atlas will likely appear more often and saryn will hardly appear.

Edited Friday at 09:17 AM by KIREEK

[MajitsuPrime]

I'm all for it. I use invigorations (they are fun and give some opportunities for things like farming) and was using them a lot early on, when I was being overwhelmed by steel path. It might give you ideas on how to use a perceived useless frame* .They might also want to rework the buffs to be more like previews into the power of archon shards. Basically "this is what happens to x frame when it has yellow shards in all slots, this is what happens to y when it has all reds" etc, to serve as an introduction to shards. It could give you an idea what to expect and what to use them for without incurring loss of bile resources just because you had no idea what you were doing. To my * point; this would give you a more realistic idea of what is possible for some unassuming frame, which the current buffs do not.

[tucker_d_dawg]

Hard no. 

There is so much ridiculous power creep, the power fantasy has turned into power reality.

[SneakyErvin]

No. Waste of time in my opinion due to how poor the system is overall. I dont think there is a system in a game I've engaged with so little as Helminth Invigorations in WF, not even K-Driving. Adding the bonuses from Archons as permanents for a week wouldnt get me to pick a frame more over another, just as I dont ever use an Arbitration bonus setup unless through some cosmic fluke I'm given bonuses to what I already plan to use.