June 5Th: Community Hot Topics!

[[DE]Drew]

Saying “so long!” to Stamina

The pros and cons of stamina have been in various hot topics for a long time. The source threads for this topic offer some opinions about the recently announced changes, and what they’ll mean for various aspects of Warframe. The following excerpt is from the Devstream 53 overview:

During our revamp of Parkour 2.0 we've been keeping a close eye on how Stamina plays into player movement -- what works and what doesn't. To find what works, we’re currently experimenting with: not having Stamina in-game, fixed distance leaps, blocking, and many other mechanics. It's our ultimate goal to ensure Parkour 2.0 gives players the same empowered feeling our current movement 'features' allow for. That means everyone should expect a change to Stamina, as well.

The change to Stamina is still a work in progress, but assuming it does get removed, what changes and/or mechanics would you like to see implemented instead? How would you change Mods and effects that currently rely on Stamina? Do you think Stamina has value? If you had the choice, would you modify it instead of removing it? What do you think the benefits to removing stamina are, if any? Please, post your thoughts/comments/ideas in this thread. 

 

Source threads:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/466800-please-dont-remove-stamina/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/467474-with-stamina-removal-what-happens-with-toxin-chroma/

 

 

Wish Upon a Star Chart

The announced changes to the Solar Map have galvanized many Warframe players. I only included a couple hot topics in the source threads, but I know there are many more on the forums. If you’re unfamiliar with the proposed ideas, I’ve included the excerpt from the Devstream 53 overview below.

We recognize that our current Star Chart needs a change, and we love to keep an open discussion on what kinds of changes we're looking to implement. That said, until the final version of our Solar Map is made live anything and everything discussed is to be considered a work in progress.

We know there are lamentations of the old Star Chart, and we are looking at bringing back the Solar Map that many players enjoyed but didn't quite have the functionality we were aiming for.

We want the new Star Chart to improve world building and include Mission modifiers while removing unnecessary redundancy -- it can't just feature planets with labels.

Once we get closer to a final design we'll share with the community for feedback.

The proposed Solar Map rework is a relatively blank slate, with the goal of streamlining and optimizing missions nodes. If you’re fearful of the proposed changes, what would you like to see change, if anything? Do you like having an abundance of nodes of each mission type? Do you think condensing nodes will create a more unified play experience? Do you think condensing nodes will make finding groups easier? If you were to create a more dynamic Solar Map with varying mission types and modifiers, how would you do it? What nodes or aspects of the Solar Map do you think are redundant, if any? 

 

Source threads:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/465123-u17-star-chart-change-speculation-what-do-you-want-to-see/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/454823-why-i-dont-play-starchart-missions-and-what-i-think-should-be-done-about-it/

 

 

Trials

The Trials are finally on all platforms, so we’re able to discuss them now with the community at large. The source thread for this hot topic suggests that the Trials ought to have more instructions to help guide players. What do you think? Are the Trials too mysterious? Should they have more instructions? Do you think they are too easy to figure out? Should they be more vague/complex? Post your opinion in this thread.  

 

Source thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/468387-trial-of-trials/

 

 

Warframe after 30

Like Logan’s Run, a significant number of weapons and Warframes are at the end of their days once they hit 30. The hot topic for this thread suggests a few potential ways to extend the progression of your favourites, instead of being finished at 30. Would you prefer to continue leveling your favourite gear in lieu of leveling new stuff? If so, what kind of progression do you think makes sense beyond 30? How would you balance 30+ weapons and warframes? What other things need to be considered? 

 

Source Thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/469607-de-slow-down-making-new-warframes-and-let-us-go-farther-with-our-current-ones/

[Archwizard]

Spotted this in my Notifications, still took nearly an hour to view it this time... Recurring issue with you, Drew...

 

Stamina

 

The question I've seen most asked about this has just been "What will happen to Chroma if Stamina's removed?"

Elemental Ward on a Toxic Chroma build allows the player to cement an infinite-blocking build, in order to compete with the benefits of the other Wards... and Steve/Rebecca thought the player asking in Twitch chat meant resistances.

 

In Archwing, the suggestion to remove stamina has seen a unanimously positive response (those maps are too big for small bursts of stamina, sorry), but outside of that... it's a grey area, mostly depending on what will be done to blocking in response.

 

Personally, I'd be all for whatever allows me to do Parkour 2.0's distance equivalent of sprint-slide-jump-slide-attacking the most consistently; bad enough that it's hell on the hands, but when stamina runs out right before the most important step, the marvel really falls flat.

 

Star Chart

 

So what I last heard is, the Star Chart is going to shrink to about ~20 missions which will rotate on a daily basis, in an attempt to eliminate the dozen superfluous nodes per planet.

 

My question is, what makes this any different from alerts? If what's offered as a Defense mission for a few hours becomes a Capture later, and a Rescue after that? If there's a possibility of not seeing a node of appropriate level with replay value for days?

 

Will this change how you can access boss missions, and thereby access to Warframes or unique weapons like Miter and Regor's eventual drops? How about endless missions like Caelus, where you can grind for hours and still never see Weapon Part X or Mod Y ("Three hours already and oh no, my window's gone")? Will grinding for a single frame be comparable to Vauban, or at least Nyx (eg "Ambulas hasn't been here in a week")?

How will this impact Invasions and Outbreaks, or Syndicate alerts, with fewer nodes for them to spread across? How will this affect allocation of Dark Sectors, once the armistice is over? How will this impact searching for specific enemies when grinding for mods, or Sanctuary targets, especially with more units who are limited to X tileset? How will this affect extractors and resource grinding, if access to a planet and its missions is randomized? How will this affect Quests like Mirage's, where the specific name of a node is relevant to continue?

 

The main problem I can see with this system, it increases RNG in what has previously been an otherwise static system. I'm less worried about the reduction of player choice in where your lootcave is (eg "Oh no, Draco's gone, I guess I'll have to do something other than mindless Mesa-Frost-Gmag-Nekros for rep instead"), so much as completely eliminating real choices (eg "Oh great, my options today are various repetitive sabotages, deceptions and mobile defenses, RIP player favorites or doing anything worthwhile today").

 

Trials

 

From what I remember, the learning curve for trials is... pretty steep. I remember trying to run one the first week it was out and nobody knew what to do during Phase 1; dispense battery, carry it and then... what? Were we supposed to protect the injector, and OH GOD THAT'S A LOT OF MANICS?

 

Personally, I think we should be able to get some hints as we're going along as far as where we're supposed to go, but it shouldn't be totally spelled out for us unless we're taking a long time - otherwise, there's no real satisfaction in doing it if we're just reading from the instruction manual.

Bonus points if they're designed going forward to give us more options to complete a given task, rather than just one way we need to be perfectly railroaded along.

 

Warframe After 30

 

I think there's less issue with our gear stopping at Rank 30, so much as with enemy scaling continuing so far past it. The merits of flat damage skills versus weapons relative to enemy scaling has been an ongoing debate for a while.

 

Unlike most games, Warframe is a bit… different. Elsewhere, “Static Damage” skills would in fact scale to player level (dating back to adding extra hit dice with your increasing stats), and enemies would have a level cap not far above the player’s own (… to the DM’s discretion). Damaging attacks would still have the same relative effectiveness so long as you kept to fighting enemies within your range.

Meanwhile, Breeding Grounds allowed Stalker to spawn as high as Rank 9999, and here I am, stuck at Rank 30.

 

At any rate, I thought "Post-30 progression" was the point of the Focus system...?

Edited June 10, 2015 by Archwizard

[Kethus]

Even if trials have no instructions one can just check youtube and find a complete walkthrough for each part of the squad, so there is no point in complete instructions, but a little wont hurt.

 

The current stamina doesn't really have a place in such a fast pased game, you run out of it too fast and it doesn't regenerate fast enough. Also sprinting in archwing shouldn't use it at all, the maps are huge. (and since there is no gravity you will only need to use the engines when you want to take a turn)

[TheGrimCorsair]

For trial instructions, it'd be nice if we could run a projected simulation of it with no reward and no key cost. A dress rehearsal, if you will.

 

[EDIT]

That is to say, any deaths don't count towards your daily revive limit, but you receive no Affinity, Credits, Resources, or Mission rewards. It'd be openly available to everyone.

Edited June 6, 2015 by TheGrimCorsair

[Zaniux]

Stamina

 

Yes, It should be removed.

The current system is only there to slow us down. We can even keep using our melee attacks with zero stamina.

Also it should be removed from Archwing, doesn´t make sense that we use stamina when we are flying with a jetpack.

 

 

Solar Map Changes

 

Totally agree with the node number reduction.

Right now we have too many "ghost town" nodes and little incentive to revisit many of them.

 

 

Trials Instructions

 

It should have at least some instructions, that would save a lot of learning time, frustation and people rage quitting due to people not knowing what to do.

IMO with the introduction of the current trial, there was too much time lost having to learn and teach people what to do. There isn´t much fun having to guide every person on a pug (yes, that's why I try to play with known people). Every one should know or at least have some directions of what to do the first time playing a trial.

 

 

30+ levels

 

Please no, that would imply more exp grinding. Also, with the limited number of slots and with the option of using multiple forma it doesn´t make much sense.

On the other hand, if grinding until (for example) level 40 or 60 gave me a nice boost that is really worth the time, something that has nothing to do with slots or formas, it would be a considerable time investment.

[ntyd1s]

Stamina is currently not functional as it should;

-can be over-drained at minimum charge,

-confusing inconsistent drain rates in some situations,

-does not affect gameplay in any good logical sense.

Since we are ninjas, it might as well be removed.

 

Starchart nodes currently serve as an unlockable progression for new players which is the aspect that should be improved on.

-Resources/mods drop should be distributed among different nodes instead of the whole universe.

-The redundancy of the same tilesets and same missions should be removed.

-Completing a mission on some nodes may affect another, for examples; 

     -completing an Extermination node reduces patrolling troops on a specific Assassination, allows easier stealth run for a special reward. (1 Extermination completion per 1 loss of patrols),

     -completing a Capture reveals security codes for instant hacking in specific Spy node,

     -completing a Sabotage turns a specific Extermination into Crossfire!

     -completing a Spy, to reinforce a Defense pod, along with a Survival to call Tenno operative to help on the Defense.

 

Trial mission guidelines should all be written in the game somewhere not too obvious to remove the requirement of www search.

 

Progress is (probably) addictive.... @___@

Edited June 6, 2015 by ntyd1s

[4ever4gotin]

Stamina:

- A detrimental system for sure, especially with the new movement set coming round, it already overstayed it's welcome and won't miss it when its gone. The freedom will be invigorating :D

 

Solar map changes:

- I am looking forward to having at least some random pubs to play with... I guess?

 

- If not all content is available at any given time it would be a major set back for me, although some questions were answered last Dev stream I'm still hesitant on the update. We don't know enough about it so I'll withhold my judgement till then.

 

Trials

-No hand holding was fun! I mean yes, it made you're first run a long grueling battle, but isn't that the awesome challenge people crave? The day Trials was released I jumped in blind, doing a nearly 2 hour run before I finished my first Trial. It was great, although I'd appreciate If there wasn't so many insta-kill scenarios, they felt kinda bland.

 

- I hope for future Trials there are more "mobile" segments, although yes the puzzle-panels seem to be a difficult "challenge", I'd prefer staying on the move rather than wait out a sequence of button presses. Which is why I like part 1 the best out of the first Trial, part 2 is my least favorite mainly due to the long dragging out from the puzzle and the hazard hijak run, lastly part 3 was okay, not quite difficult but not quite as boring as part 2.

 

30+

- Huh, been waiting for ever ever ever ever (that's 4 ever's), for the focus system to come out. But as mentioned before every new thing recently has been chucking out pieces of the system and leaves it quite bare-bones at the moment. I guess we'll have to see later for what's left to ssalvage from the Focus system.

Edited June 6, 2015 by 4ever4gotin

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

The thing with the Starchart is that the Stream 52 suggestion sounded like overkill. Few would dispute that we have too many nodes, but if the player counts are past 22K and yet they still aren't all filled, simply removing nodes won't solve underlying problems.

My suggestion is this: 1. Remove completely redundant nodes. If a planet has multiple missions of a type, those should go without hesitation.

2. Make the void missions require level completion to do. At the end of the level, a player with a void key can drop it into a beam device. At this point, a defense-like choice between staying and leaving could appear. Keys would exist only in one type, and the Void missions would be the same level/type as the normal ones, with a couple exceptions for endless missions: Deception would have Survival, rescue would have Defense, and Assassination would have Interception.This helps newbies get squads. But to prevent them from pushing away older players, or worse going into missions they were too weak for, there would be a mastery lock of 3, 4, 5, and 6 (maybe lower, definitely not higher) for each of the four Void types, unless the new player were holding the key or in a private mission.

3. Redistribute rewards. This shouldn't at all hurt DE financially, as buffing rewards on less reward focused missions wouldn't make players acquire items any faster than they can now. Every mission should have rewards that are interesting for that level of player, and these shouldn't be redundant across similar level types.

4. Combine mission types. A few special missions and quests have this already, where a sabotage will become defense or a rescue becomes spy. Essentially, these missions should mix and match objectives from others, ehile not be significantly longer. They might have one rescue target and two mobile defense terminals, or have a capture target and two spy vaults. But don't make this random (keep the nodes the same every time), and make it clear on the starchart. This allows you to remove more nodes while still offering lots of player choice, and it will make missions less redundant. This should happen for a couple missions at low levels, but by high ones nearly every non endless mission should be a combination one.

This should allow DE to get node counts down to about 75 and increase interest in many of those missions. Also, this would allow the old starchart to work with few changes, as each planet would only have 8-10 missions and the nodes could be made larger without cluttering everything.

There were some good things from the starchart rework suggestion, but they should be considered for a revamp of alerts/invasions and not be the entire game. The problem with the suggestion, at least for me, was not a fear that I couldn't get my hands on rewards. I was simply worried that the missions I play for fun would be unavailable to me due to a severe decrease in choice, that new players would be aimless without a clear visual sense of progression, and also that the rework would cause DE to miss underlying problems with the current system.

Edited June 6, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Archeyef]

Hm, I can't say I have much opinion on these topics.

 

The solar map issue has, from my perspective, been very unclear, and the (again, from my perspective) overreaction of the community didn't really help. I admit I haven't watched the devstream where the changes were first discussed, but the devs have said a lot of that is candid brainstorming, not "this is what will now happen." Maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention to it though, I haven't spent a lot of time on the forums lately. Until I have some more concrete info, I'm going to decline forming an opinion on it.

 

Trials... I can't say I've played them enough to have an opinion. I've only played with alliance mates, and we had people who already knew what to do, so I didn't really have much problem figuring out what to do. But since I haven't had that experience, I can't really give an opinion.

 

Weapon levelling... I don't really find any fault with how things level currently. We've got forma, so we kinda already have post-30 levelling. And it's good enough for what I usually play. I'm not really for or against it, I just don't really know what purpose it would serve.

 

And the only thing I actually have an opinion on, Stamina. I think there is really no reason to have it in game. It... it doesn't really do much of anything, other than limit blocking. It's not really a limit on speed, because a skilled player can move faster than sprinting through melee techniques like aerial melee and coptering. Those don't really require stamina. With the coming changes, this might change, but as far as what we currently have, I can't think of a good reason to keep stamina ingame.

 

Pretty much the only times stamina becomes a factor is in blocking and wallrunning. Parkour 2.0 is obviously going to change wallrunning, and I don't know what that will do to stamina's usefulness as a feature. And as for blocking, well, I rarely ever block. It's just much more productive to close range quickly and kill the enemy that's shooting at you. And that's assuming you are running melee only or have actively equipped melee, rather than just using quick melee. So... from my point of view, Stamina is mostly meaningless. I never even think about it, really, except now when it's been brought up.

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

Stamina

Stamina should be modified where sprinting and melee attacks/combos don't consume stamina, its only consumed when blocking or when wall running.

Or it can just be removed entirely, Stamina definitely has no place in archwing, heh, it doesn't even have stamina related mods...  stamina should atleast be removed from archwing.

 

Star Chart

I'm personally excited to see the star chart reworked, in the last dev stream it was mentioned that we can access any resources and mods that specific enemies drop. Knowing that I feel like the star chart is just going to be simply condensed and bring the community together. Although I would like some more info on it.

 

Instructions for Trials

Having the trials be mysterious/vague is something that creates an extra challenge that players have to overcome, although I gotta admit, there is probably no way of doing a trial without having any knowledge on it (from videos/guides etc...) so some guidelines can be helpful and won't make players frustrated.

 

New cap?

Read the thread for this hot topic, the OP was suggesting a similar system to the focus system. Sure, I support it!

Edited June 6, 2015 by (XB1)LexaHex488

[(PSN)Darkturn]

The trials, I think is ok to let us figure it out ourself as it was kinda fun and annoying, hehe. Is not like that people can't figure it out...

But there is one part that i think is totally stupid because it can't help or prevent it (unless you have certain warframe which should never be like that that your favorite frame is not as good because is useless in the trial but your least favorite frame is. isn't it about a freedom of choice and what really matter is skill over frame? Master of warframe and weapon not master of who got more money to slot up with all frame and gear... ok back to the issue), those are the pressure plates on Stage 2 and 3.

Unlike in the Stage 1 they leave you wide open and you must stay on it for the teammate to either not died (Stage 2) or give him access to a crucial part of the fight (Stage 3). Either you warframe is suited to be a tank or is camouflage you pretty much serve as perfect target for the enemy and you so agile ninja mobility is useless. Now I do have a suggestion. The plates on Stage 2 should have a 5 second cooldown time so if you get knock of or pull out you should be able to to comeback and reset it again so that all your friend get instant kill because of a unfortunate luck. I pretty sure it would angry the person as much because some stupid thing that you couldn't help and don't related to you skill or as a player. In stage 3 I say 2-3 second is more then enough, but also for both stage that is because you can actually fight back in the position and if you fail that its a matter of you mistake then just some luck then you did have time and movement to retaliate against enemy upcoming.

None or less I found it fun even if it sometimes was hard because one lousy unfortunately situation, but we're all friends and had fun but it could be for random maybe harsh if they accuse for mistake they couldn't help. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

some rly open-ended Q's this time on HT... =/ , not sure if good/bad

 

certainly 'stamina' as the current green bar and system functions in WF, is a completely pointless hassle, melee atks use it, but it provides no benefit, nor does it inhibit melee when its all gone, it does however inhibit movement, but only in a very un-intuitive way ; stamina is also used to limit blocking, but IMHO blocking is already a lackluster feature that requires several mods to do what it should do by default (block and return dmg) [certainly blocking is great if/while melee is readied/equipped, but that in and of itself is the problem] ; bottom line, the current stamina system might as well be removed and any associated limitations by design should be reworked into other features, ie better movement/parkour options and limitations {and this pretty much sounds like where DE is headed with it, 2 yrs later and we're FINALLY seeing the copter-mania being address... better late than never i suppose}

 

solar map changes? we really dont have enough information at this point, certainly there have been numerous brilliant ideas on the forums since the death of the solar system and the intro of the liset ; hopefully DE realizes how functional and purposeful the original design was, even if they didnt think it was pretty enough, WF lost a TON of atmosphere when they got rid of the kneeling/meditating tenno prior to a mission =/ (nevermind the fact that the previous solar map was an actual reflection of the solar system vs the horrid fustercluck ring of balls that we got stuck with)

 

trials info? its not so much that the trials need to hand-hold, but DE's mission designs for the 1st trial were god-awful, the entire mission is like a child's game and completely non-intuitive, why do doors require two ppl to stand on pads to open them? sure its simple (cuz if it was more complex than that, oh man...), but that's not the point, do the grineer have to stand on the pads? why would they design something like that? why is there a bomb/battery dispenser in the middle of the 4 toxin machines? why cant the tenno destroy the machine thru any number of other more reasonable means? of course every answer here is "TEAMWORK" but instead of designing a mission with difficult challenges that require teamwork to overcome, DE just instead put a bunch of hamfisted 'this requires 2 or more tenno to do' macguffins all over the place and then blanketed the whole mess with constant hp/shld/nrg drain, just not very good game design, sadly ; i would much rather see DE take the time to go back to the drawing board and design thoughtful/logical missions that are simply difficult by design, then the lotus could give us the necessary info, but the hard work would be pulling it off (ie the missions need to make more 'sense', enemies shouldnt be giving us the bombs to destroy them, maybe we should have to raid a fortress to get the bombs and then take them to another mission or something, balor fomorian main cannons should destroy things, not blow out fires, etc)

 

i feel like there already are 'progression' mechanics post-30, but the breadth of choices in WF makes them get lost in the clutter, for one, you've got 20+ different frames and hundreds of different weapons, with at least 1/3 of them being fairly viable 'end-game' [ie the games current most difficult content], but the customization options we have for individual frames/weapons atm is fairly limited in practice ; even tho we have hundreds of different mods to choose from, a handful are functionally required in almost all builds, limiting options in reality [unless u want to intentionally 'gimp' yourself for a 'challenge', ie not great game design if u cant use all the tools available to their full effect] ; IMHO DE needs to rework/add dedicated augment and/or utility mod slots to frames and weapons, otherwise the 'utility' class of mods will never outshine the base stat/dmg/etc core mods that are 'required' {making this augment/utility slots dedicated ala auras, prevents this from being just more blanket 'power-creep'}

[AlienOvermind]

Stamina in current state is completely unnecessary mechanics. I would remove it completely. But I would add some stamina-like points, that would be used for special actions like charged attacks, dashing, parry/ripostes, some sort of super-jumps etc (one point = one action). These points should recharge over time and different warframes can start with different number of these points.

Normal actions lke running, blocking and using normal attacks should be free.

Also, Toxic Chroma may be focused around these special-action-points.

Edited June 6, 2015 by AlienOvermind

[Kotommi]

Nothing to say about the other topics, but with the Trials I think there should be no arrows pointing at the right direction, but they should still be built so that they can be learned fluently as you go.

 

The current one has some things (the button panels in the hijack and to some degree the injectors) that pretty much require someone to tell you what to do when doing it the first time. These are in no way difficult after you've learned them, but during the first try, there was very little indicator on what to do and especially with the Fomorian core, you had very limited time to learn that. Additionally with the hijack mission, you could not just pick up where you left off if failing something, making the learning that more unpleasant.

 

Basically: no indicators needed, as long as things don't require prior knowledge of the Trial via allowing things to be learned from the environment and behaviour of things (first bit with the injectors was fine because it was not an instant failure).

 

 

P.S. Scatterbrain writing, will clarify if need be.

[Burnthesteak87]

STAMINA:

Stamina is a resource to limitate player mobility and actions.

As I suggested in other topics, it should be mantained and emproved to fulfill its role.
Also in PVP, given the quickness people are moving around, the Stamina should be the major feature to stop them from being eternally mobile and giving a window of opportunity to their opponents to catch them.

Given you can't sprint without stamina, that's how all the other features should work: (These are just options)

•  Melee Attacks while low-to-no-stamina should be slower and deal less damages. (What about combos?)
• You can't Copter without stamina (Exactly as sprinting).
• You can't Aerial Attack without stamina or its range is reduced in %.

 

Now Mods like Quick Rest, Marathon and Second Wind become important.
Also please merge Quick Rest and Marathon.
 

Edited June 10, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Tyreuzs]

Stamina:

We are spaceninjas that parkour through.. wait what stamina? *sprint-walk-sprint-walk*

 

Solar Map:

All i hope is that they dont take us the choice to do what we want. However, if the system is good it could finally provide an endgame Warframe definitly needs.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Tyreuzs

[Gurzil]

Beyond 30 was supposed to be Focus.. @_0

 

I think Stamina has it's place just as encumbrance values do in some situations. Little ol' mag swinging around the Gram for 30 mins without missing a beat is the preferrable vision, but there should be limits to what we can do. At the same time there should be ways/a system/paths we can devote ourselves to in order to push beyond those limits. As vague as it is right now. This idea almost gives you a lane to make Prime's stand apart from the norm a bit more by attaching stamina passives and such. 

 

As for mods like marathon/quick rest/acrobat/maglev/rush/handspring and their like.. I've long believed that due to the movement focus of many of the mastery tests, that it's best to allow certain mastery levels to unlock "movement slots" so we can use these mods without sacrificing from our builds.

 

Movement slots, the proposed augment slot(s) and so forth could be attached to mastery and would add more incentive to ranking up. Weapons/gear/frames/etc. could possibly be given unlockable mastery passives perhaps better labeled "proficiency perks". "Ranking the Gram to 30 unlocks a hidden stance combo achievable due to the adaptation of this heavy weapon into your playstyle." -- Perhaps melee mastery considering it's physical training would allow us to build up our stamina and in some cases reduce the encumbrance values of our gear. This could lead to increased attack speed, reloads, aerial attacks, variant slide attacks, ground slam enhancements and so forth.

 

 

Hmmm@charge attacks using chunks or all of the stamina bar... Wouldn't really have to touch channeling then if a charge attack is us knowingly putting more effort into a particular swing..

 

Would be cool if we could manipulate our stamina in different ways for higher/longer jumps and like burst/honed leaps

 

I had some more ideas, but it's late and I think I should crash for now.

 

Sweet screams Tenno,

 

-G-

^_^

Edited June 6, 2015 by Gurzil

[Mozzo]

Stamina is currently not functional as it should;

-can be over-drained at minimum charge,

-confusing inconsistent drain rates in some situations,

-does not affect gameplay in any good logical sense.

Since we are ninjas, it might as well be removed.

Starchart nodes currently serve as an unlockable progression for new players which is the aspect that should be improved on.

-Resources/mods drop should be distributed among different nodes instead of the whole universe.

-The redundancy of the same tilesets and same missions should be removed.

-Completing a mission on some nodes may affect another, for examples;

-completing an Extermination node reduces patrolling troops on a specific Assassination, allows easier stealth run for a special reward. (1 Extermination completion per 1 loss of patrols),

-completing a Capture reveals security codes for instant hacking in specific Spy node,

-completing a Sabotage turns a specific Extermination into Crossfire!

-completing a Spy, to reinforce a Defense pod, along with a Survival to call Tenno operative to help on the Defense.

Trial mission guidelines should all be written in the game somewhere not too obvious to remove the requirement of www search.

Progress is (probably) addictive.... @___@

I love your ideas on the start chart

the only thing i would add is for mod and resource drops

the higher the level of node and enemies the higher the chance to drop rare resource and mods

on trails there should be "SOME" instruction since someone is sending you there they should have an idea of defenses and such. Of course there will always be the unexpected but poor map layout and omnipresent helps lack of information on exploding cells is annoying to say the least.

On levels... I would really like DE to take "inspiration" from another game which i shall not name but most of you should know. They have a system called paragon not increasing the max level of 30 but adding another leveling system that goes up to 30 on its own (so if you forma;d a warframe or weapon you reset back to level 1 but your paragon would still be at 30). Leveling would give you the choice to add points to you r base stats. I think one of the best features of warframe is the amount of weapons and warframes you can play and this system would give mid level to endgame players a sense of ownership and uniqueness.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Mozzo

[Loswaith]

Stamina:

Stamina is a tricky one it really isn't needed for anything but to keep parry from being the infinite immunity.  

As to parrying its nice that it has the factor that some shots use more than others however this being based on damage of said shots is where it falls down.  A rapid fire gun shouldn't take much stamina to parry compared to say a rocket, however just because each of those bullets would do more damage means that stamina is effectively pointless when parrying is actually needed rather than simply just relying on your shields (IE when damage would actually be a threat to your shields).

 

Solar Chart:

The real issue here isn't so much to many nodes as not being able to find where other players are actually playing (currently you have to guess where players are actually playing and whether there is even an available group to join).  

Sometimes you only care about the mission type regardless of the planet, other times you only care about the planet rather than the mission type.  In either of those cases you have no ability to find say someone playing on earth, or someone playing a sabotage mission.

The proposed concept wont really change that aspect (as described), it will force people to basically play what they don't want to because that is all that is available (one of the biggest issues with alerts currently).

 

The other aspect is that to new players currently the game looks like it has very little locations to play in, they just wont really know by looking that more planets are able to be unlocked (unlike the older full star chart) nor where they need to prepare to go in 2-3 steps after that.

With some 20 odd nodes, many new players (and likely some older ones) will see it simply as that is all the game has to offer is a handful of nodes and presume the game is very lightly developed (especially given the beta nature of the game).

 

The other aspect is there are just a lot of inherent blocks preventing you simply joining your friends or clan mates.  In some cases you just want to play with them and the current mission or phase (for endless) reward you would happily forgo to just be able to join and play instead of waiting for them to finish whatever mission they are doing (and thus earn rewards for any further phases or missions you do with those friends or clan mates).

 

Trials:

 Simply put trials need some kind of instructions or hints within the game itself.  Finishing a trial and not knowing what the hell happened or you were meant to do doesn't really endear them to players (few players like being the spare wheel).  Sure some players will look outside the game for the ways to play them (typically via youTube or the wikia) but the vast majority will simply write them off as incomplete.

Unlike regular missions there simply is no low level ones to use trial and error to figure them out (be that solo or with small groups of friends), and in many cases players simply don't want to take the time to teach others (be that due to they learned themselves and believe others should as well or the risk of failing the mission).

In many cases this then requires access to either a larger group of friends that play and/or larger clans and alliances willing to actually go to the effort of teaching players every nuance rather than simply telling them where to go.

 

This is not really just an issue for trials, warframe is quite bad at teaching players anything with the game-play or mechanics that are unique to it, rather than just teaching those aspects that are common to most shooters.

 

 

Beyond 30:

 We effectively already have aspects beyond rank 30 from using forma (each forma adds around 3-10 effective levels to weapons or frames), weapons more so than warframes (as frames grow with their ranks but the weapons only grow with mod point capacity).

 

Some kind of focus system could work to allow further growth but this would be better suited to aspects like rarely used mods (IE more breath instead of more depth to the warframes and weapons).  

More passive aspects like resistances, detectors, slide distance, or movement speed (in the case of frames) could all be of use as mods (for less developed frames), or inherent passives for more developed frames (or even combined mods and passives for highly effective results), simply because while they are useful they aren't simply as useful as other mod options.  These ancillary factors would give more advanced frames more edge over less developed ones however not really give vastly more power in the process, but could give more diversity.

 

If the passives in the case of frames were also more focused to each frame, it would also give more individuality in the process.

 

Most gear as it stands don't really need more power (in some cases we have more than enough) so if we were to look beyond the 30 mark looking to have frames/weapons be more individualised or more versatile could give some benefit over simply just gaining more power.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Loswaith

[Zeyez]

on the stamina system:

 

You may have to maintain for some actions like super jump, blocking... of course, after you found a balance point between the use of it after the implementation, but the current mode turns out to be exaggerated, because even to run or swing a melee weapon consumes stamina

if you wanna remove, remember that we have mods that affect it directly (Marathon, Second Wind, Quick Rest...), for don't end up doing what they did with the pure status mods (Sure Shot, Meele prowess, Stunning Speed, Rifle Aptitude and Shotgun Savvy) because they increase based on weapon's amount, rather than increasing additively

ah, serious, look at them, and some more:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/465176-a-small-large-change-in-underpowered-mods-in-general/

 

about the solar map changes:

 

I am skeptical of this part

looks good idea in general to reduce the spread between the players by the planets, but if it ends very restricting the options we will have to choose from (per example, want to go into an endless map (interception, defense, survival, excavation), but only have the extermination to get some neural sensors), can not become fun

try at least leave one endless mission and a limited one every planet, unless it will be an event

 

about the trials's instruction:

 

I particularly liked the way in which the tips were passed: we had to figure out what to do in the mission (2 buttons pressed open the gate, per example) but also when we find something, had something (Hek) playing with us, saying not to let the radiation does not kill us, even if this battery was of great importance to the mission's progress

basically, just give superficial instructions and leave us to deal with the rest, after all, the Lotus already makes all normal missions are so trivial in terms of information that we end up losing the ability to think, in face of something unexpected

 

at most, have an interaction with something new to generate feedback on the game, like cables being energized, someone talking to us, something affecting our HUD ...

 

 

about the warframe "and weapons" beyond level 30:

 

it looks like that idea of Focus you had mentioned earlier

 

if this is to create a specialization with the weapon/warframe, fine, provided that the "alleged" expertise is not just to bring additional power unnecessarily, since you at least put a limit on the increase in power the enemies, because isn't fun face a level 60 (t4) bombard that sends one (one? 3, at least) missile chasing you the entire map to get you down without warning or chance to avoid it (after all, the missile even can barrel roll easily)

 

why I include weapons? because some of them can also enjoy something by reducing some of its flaws, like Akjagara and its recoil (passively reduce its recoil by 40%), Twin Viper and its ammo consumption (raising the ammo pickup by 30%), Daikyu and its "draw limit time" of 5 seconds after full charge (remove this limitation), Supra and its... its... its... reload speed (reduce from 4.2 to 2.5 to reload)... as if the player had learning to use the weapon effectively

 

 

 

edit: some writing corrections

Edited June 7, 2015 by Zeyez

[Mcl_Blue]

About the Trials, they were made to be challenging, right? Well, vagueness isn't challenging. If something's truly challenging, it will remain challenging even if you know exactly what to do. If we start the mission, and the first thing we think is "where do I go?", then something's wrong. There should at least be some hints pointing us to the objectives, without spelling it out, so that we at least know we are where we're supposed to be, but still have to figure out what to do on our own.

[Doom_Bunny]

Stamina:

Scott nicely summed up the problem with stamina, in the last devstream. However melee and rushing is definately a concern when having infinite stamina. When rushing nothing changes besides the fact that I would no longer run out of stamina. So if anything infinate stamina would promote going faster, leaving your team behind. For melee it means I could put up a continuous barage of attacks or have a continuous defense. Of course there are ways to stop these without affecting the infinte stamina.

 

Solar chart:

I would take a back seat and wait for something concrete from DE.

 

Trial help:

It's not that hard to understand but I wouldn't mind a sort of fly through explanation. You would fly to the major objectives and be given a quick explanation by Lotus on what to do, any secondary objectives would be given a quick glance over. Of course some details like the timer may be put in subtly however make the timer evident in the player's UI when picking up the bomb. Allow returing players to skip the explanation.

 

Beyond level 30?:

This has more to do with enemy and player scaling then anything else. We get a new mod/powerful gun and the enemies get insanely buffed to compensate. Warframes always seem to be on the losing end of this. They constantly get nerfed,looked at, reworked all just to balance out new mods that are adding to the power creep.

 

If we were to go beyond level 30 most of the system would need to be looked at and reworked which could be a good thing. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/466789-rebeccas-spreadsheet-how-mods-should-be/

We could have strength; range, health (etc), duration, and effiency mostly rely on leveling instead of mods. This way the strength of our frames is completely in DE's hands. DE would get a much better reading on the difficulty of the enemies this way because with the way it is now you never know what mods people are using when they say something needs a buff/nerf. Not to mention we would probably have more fun as we wouldn't be so op. Though it probably wold be a bit finicky to start with, constantly re-adjusting player and enemy strength. However I do believe this could lead to balanced system.

 

There are of course other parts of the system in the way such as potatoes; formas, and mod ranks.

Potatoes would be made redundent, unless they are used to go past level 30 (hopefully not).

No one in the right mind would reset a frame arfter that much leveling.

Mod ranks could possibly sky rocket.

Then of course we have exp and everything that entails, all of it would have to be reworked.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Gravefire]

Personally, I liked the way the raid makes you figure it out. If you don't have the time and patience to, "deal" with it then that's your decision. Everyone learns and acts differently towards raiding, if you're one of the groups that just jumps right into and doesn't understand, and gets frustrated after a few wipes maybe let the people who test/figure out the stuff first then see what they did.

[Shimonoki_Ryuji]

1. Stamina in my opinion shouldn't completely go away. It should still affect coptering, wall runs, wall sticking and blocking. As for melee combos - it's unnecessary. Stamina mods aren't necessary in the game too.

 

2. The way it has been said about in the livestream: with 20 nodes and removal of player choice - i'll never support that. Each mission type per every tileset must be available at all times no matter what. Tilesets should be grouped info 3 groups - infested, grineer, corpus. Now, as for drops, they should rotate in some manner between the tileset groups to avoid ghost nodes. Then, there are alerts, conflicts, invasions, nightmares that happen randomly on all tilesets. Lastly, bosses should also rotate between tileset groups (For example - grineer bosses rotate and appear only on grineer tilesets). All this should be enough to keep the people playing different missions, so they don't have to farm the same mission over and over and over.

 

3. Trials are difficult challenging missions, that MUST give proper and thorough instructions on where, when and what to do. Players shouldn't waste time on guessing the objective. Though - most efficient way of doing things should be guessed by players.

 

4. I wouldn't support just flat out more levels, because right now polarization makes you level the damn thing over and over. If this process is even longer - no thank you. The levels in my opinion should remain capped at 30, but the extra XP beyond 30 should accumulate and should be used to get something valuable: passives, neat perks, ability augments (i personally hate how they are currently in the game) or even different abilities for greater variety and customization.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

1. I see a lot of people voting to remove stamina entirely, while think it could stand to be adjusted, I don't blame them at all for feeling that it should be entirely removed. Dashing, wall running, melee, and blocking all require the same resource and it greatly limits the potential of any one of these things while ranged weaponry and Warframe powers can be used to their full potential. I would prefer only melee to draw from stamina so you still have the option of blocking  attacks and running away when the situation gets too dangerous to remain at close range. If it were up to me, we would have to identify and recognize different types of attacks with their own tells that can be blocked infinitely and easily(no need for tells for these since the penalty for getting hit is minor), attacks that will eventually will open up your guard if you allow yourself to block too often, attacks that will break open your guard and leave you stunned, and attacks that will ignore blocking altogether. 

 

2. As far as the solar map revamp goes, I can't comment on it because I simply don't know what the heck it is. And even if it were here on our PCs/Consoles right now, Id need to play for a few days to give a definite and more thorough opinion on it since I don't want have a knee-jerk reaction to it.

 

3. Trials should provide some guidance. But it should be minimal. So minimal that the players don't even realize they're being taught the mechanics of the trial itself. Be subtle about it and let the players work it out.

 

4. I dont think progression beyond 30 is necessary. We have forma, we have reactors and catalysts (which basically instantly turns a rank 30 warframe to the equivalent to a rank 60 warframe (though without any health, energy, and shield boosts you get from going 1-30), and we have aura mods that can bump players up into the rank 70 range. You could always add more mod slots, utility only mod slots, add accessories in the way you did with those trial rewards. You could also put a limit on how many times you forma a frame/weapon/etc. but in addition to changing polarities, you can use the forma to add a extra mod slot, use the forma to give a small buff to one of its base stats, slightly improve one of a frames passives, etc. In short, there are a lot of other ways to go about allowing players to get stronger than to have them grind more levels and make it more about things you do after you hit 30.

Edited June 6, 2015 by (PS4)VariantX7