Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

@(*()$ broken is what they will make the current damage/enemy level issues.

/rant

But I am hopeful they will make it nice and balanced. I all for consuming more ammo but maybe up the ammo amount all around.

Edited September 4, 2015 by (PS4)Oreic-Reynier

[Bigcc]

It's thanks to this wonderful person that this change could happen: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/497767-can-we-please-have-some-sort-of-nerfchange-to-multishot-mods/

Edited September 4, 2015 by Bigcc

[Rankii]

They just need to rework the mod system as a whole. They're shooting themselves in the foot again, but now they're just using more ammo for it.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Rankii

[AdunSaveMe]

Not EVERYTHING needs a drawback, where did you get that idea?

Where did you get the idea that I had that idea?

[SanicManic]

RIP my beloved Amprex. Time to switch to Sancti Tigris.

[Tesseract7777]

One shot then reload vs two shots then reload.

 

A nerf is a nerf.

 

I think you are missing what I'm trying to say here: 

 

If it effect all multishot, it effects Scattered Justice. That means "nerf" or otherwise overall, the Hek is going to get hit way harder than the Vaykor Hek by this change. 

[bl4ckhunter]

by the way  yeah, let's ignore serration&friends becouse it's a time sink and does litherally nothing besides adding zeros behind the damage number and nerf serration that actually has effects on gameplay, way to go DE. week of disappointment, if you want to give multishot a drawback give it accuracy decrease so it's actually noticable on all weapons

[Cpl_Facehugger]

What is there to address? Obviously it's another form of ROF. ROF mods weren't free ammo, multishot was. Now that will be fixed.

 

What do you mean what is there to address? You're addressing the fact that we already have ROF mods. Numerous ROF mods. Corrupted ROF mods, normal ROF mods, probably primed ROF mods eventually... So what benefit is there in changing a unique mechanic to what amounts to a crude copy-paste hackjob of another mechanic?

 

Then you're addressing how this change will make certain mods useless. Scattered justice? Lethal torrent and barrel diffusion on any sort of high ROF pistol? Lolol.

 

 

And the point cost of a mod that gets used nearly 100% of the time is completely irrelevant. Automatic mod choices are bad. This is a step towards removing them from the metagame.

 

And this is quite possibly the most terrible way to "fix" this issue that I can imagine. It's a flat nerf to all automatic weapons and basically just massive nerfs effective usability in all those weapons, and it arguably won't even remove Split Chamber and the like from everyone's build because you still need that DPS to play in high level content.

 

Unless every gun gets megabuffed with +90/+120/+180/+320% base damage, but somehow I don't see that happening.

 

Like, I could get behind making serration and split chamber innate to all guns and "levelled" with weapon level, ala how frames get health/shields/energy as they level. That solves the problem without completely obliterating the utility of the concept. But this? Unless DE's also hitting the enemy scaling with a massive nerfbat at the same time, this is a terrible change.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

We need a mass gravestone.

I'll start the list.

*R.I.P*

Dual Cestra

Snipers

Castanas

Synoid Gammacor

Shotguns

Dex Furis

Autos especially auto secondaries.

Edited September 4, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[egregiousRac]

#1. You cant oneshot everything.

#2. If you think the Mk1 Braton is "too OP" then you are mentally insane.

 

Go try a max build Mk1 Braton on Ceres and Pluto. It kills everything much faster than it does unmodded at the beginning of the game.

 

The TTK at the beginning of the game, both for the player and enemies, is very fine tuned and is very balanced. By the end of the game, a fully modded player dies a bit faster than that, but enemies are slaughtered in droves.

 

This has caused a cascading effect on the game. Missions are too easy, so drop tables get junk added so that you can't get the content as fast. Everything is easy to slaughter, so they add damage caps to certain enemies. Enemies have stopped having balancing measures because they are simply too easy.

Fix the damage output and everything else can be cleaned up.

Edited September 4, 2015 by egregiousRac

[Invalid_Infinity]

I think you are missing what I'm trying to say here: 

 

If it effect all multishot, it effects Scattered Justice. That means "nerf" or otherwise overall, the Hek is going to get hit way harder than the Vaykor Hek by this change. 

Which brings me to point #2.

 

Seems a bit too convenient to be true now isn't it?

[Acidulant]

A proper multishot fix is to just flat out nerf the chance % like Archwing's dual rounds. So that the low dmg per shot bullet hose weapons gets the benefit of multishot mods while high damage pack a punch weapon does not.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Acidulant

[Tesseract7777]

Which brings me to point #2.

 

Seems a bit too convenient to be true now isn't it?

 

I'm not sure what you mean? Not being snarky, actually asking for clarification. 

 

If they don't rebalance the weapons like they say, yes some will be very nerfed. 

 

I'm just saying if it does affect all multishot, I haven't done the math yet, but it seems like the regular Hek would suffer far worse than Vaykor. 

 

If by convenient you mean convenient that people were complaining the regular Hek was better and then this happens, making the Vaykor clearly better after the changes. Well, yes. That is indeed rather convenient. 

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

If multishot gonna consume more ammo, then obviously it will consume ammo from magazine, so how it will work on guns with limited mags? Like vectis/tigris? Vectis regular only have 1 ammo on magazine, with multishot it will shot 2 bullets...doesnt make sense

Edited September 4, 2015 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Kestral9999]

Wow the amount of dumb and closed mindness is to the 100th level. This is not a whine post as this currently a mod that would affect all weapons, not just the FOTM weapons, even the MK1-Bratoned if forma'd would have to be examined again. So people with large collections of weapons would have to grind again just to make their fun weapons not ammo-hogs.

 

I mean there wasn't even any calls for "I'm quitting" or such. It was just a suggestion.

 

Someone posts a suggestion that I don't care/disagree with they are obviously a whiner/baby.

Maybe, um, maybe don't quote me like I was accusing you of that.

 

Worst I said about you was that you were acting entitled, which isn't even necessarily bad. I just know that it's not in DE's nature to issue out compensation for stuff like this and wanted to point it out. I've seen a LOT of posts when an item is nerfed demanding that they get a refund and accusing DE of "baiting and switching" them.

[Sziklamester]

My third opinion and consideration is if they just entirely remove the mod system and they add something different to buff our arsenal like forging and stat specialise that could be better. This requires the arsenal reworks and the stats buffs to a viable level then they could work on the AI and tactics and limiting the enemy levels to say 50 but the level 50 mob could be kill you fast with better survival skill instead buff his/her hp and armor and damage into the skies.

 

For this they should kick out completely their beloved mod system which is broken from the beginning. I am not against balance issues but then real balances need and not bandaid solutions because with it they just make other bandaids needed short time.

 

Dear DE pls hire some new guy whom talented in making AI. Thanks - your honest player.

[AdunSaveMe]

What really pisses me off is that they used the excuse of "oh it not using ammo is a bug".

 

That is a piss poor excuse, especially for the amount of time it has been out.

You mean just like coptering, which was also unintended and was around for a long time?

Edited September 4, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[FelisImpurrator]

A proper multishot fix is to just flat out nerf the chance % like Archwing's dual rounds. So that the low dmg per shot bullet hose weapons gets the benefit of multishot mods while high damage pack a punch weapon does not.

Basically this, with a cost reduction to match.

 

At this point, I hope it at least comes with a reduction anyway, because 15 slots for fire rate is a colossal waste of time.

[nickelshark]

I have yet to watch the stream since I am at work. But, will fire rate mods basically replace multi-shot in terms of efficiency?

[Invalid_Infinity]

This won't be an option because things in game changing still this game in beta so don't expect refunds for builds. I know this first time sounds a bad decision from them to nerf useful stuffs but they are the devs and they should be creative to solve the problems.

 

My opinion is they aren't enough creative to solve problems but hope someday they learn to.

 

Wait and let's see how this changes will work in game.

Been hoping for that problem solving creativity for two years now.

 

I am done waiting.

[goatwithbenefits]

That's one big bonfire today.

 

I have two questions about this:

1. Will enemy stats/scaling be rebalanced in light of this change?

2. Why now? It sure must have not been an issue in the past two and a half years, so why nerf multishot now?

[Invalid_Infinity]

You mean just like coptering, which was also unintended and was around for a long time?

Except they constantly told everyone how it was a bug.

 

To my knowledge this was never classified as a bug and suddenly calling it a bug out of nowhere is SERIOUSLY shady. 

 

Hell with the bug excuse they could do almost anything they want to.

 

It sets a VERY bad precedent. 

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Pure DPS builds are a bandaid fix to issues resulting from infinite scaling.

 

DE is treating symptoms, not causes, which is sad.

 

 

We need a mass gravestone.

I'll start the list.

*R.I.P*

Dual Cestra

Snipers

Castanas

Synoid Gammacor

Shotguns

Dex Furis

Autos especially auto secondaries.

 

Well they did say they're going to re-balance weapons to account for the changes...  Which will probably come in the form of adjusting clip sizes, etc.

 

BUT!!!!

 

What I want to know is why they heck would they want to go back and adjust/rebalance a hundred or so weapons just because a few forumers found something new to pick on a few weeks ago.

 

Seems a bit like re-inventing the wheel, and hugely redundant work.

 

I'm not commenting on multi-shots specifically, just this whole exercise.  I figured the devs would be busy with something else.  =/

[Hypernaut1]

If multishot gonna consume more ammo, then obviously it will consume ammo from magazine, so how it will work on guns with limited mags? Like vectis/tigris? Vectis regular only have 1 ammo on magazine, with multishot it will shot 2 bullets...doesnt make sense

its possible thjat it might just NOT work because there isnt 2 bullets.

[(PSN)TheYetiMan22]

And the few vocal minority sway the game for the quiet majority who were happy with they way the game was :-(