Sharpening our Razorbacks: a PC weekend post-mortem.

[BiancaRoughfin]

35 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PC Tenno,

Over the weekend you encountered the longtime-coming Razorback Armada, and many of you decided that the razors hadn't been sharpened enough since your last encounter.

While you may have been delighted to find the Gorgon Wraith & Puncture Event Mods return, some issues did crop up! 

So what are we doing to improve things for next time?

I think the Razorback deserves its own Arena. The Jackal Arena is to cramped up for it and i many times question how the Corpus plan on moving the Razorback out of there without having to chop it up?

Maybe have that same new Ambulas Arena but flat without the containers and light poles but a large metal plate floor and some cranes used to assemble the Razorback. Maybe some lasers or electrical wires which the players would have to Lure the Ambulas through to knock its shields out instead of the Bursas?

[Rekalty]

5 minutes ago, oceano4 said:

That's nice, but too late.

 

We'll be seeing it in another 6 months.

 

Yay. 

I'm sure DE will have forgotten all about it by then, and will repeat the same mistakes again, just like they did the previous time, people pointed stuff like this out, and it still wasn't fixed.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I enjoyed the mechanics of the fight but the Razorback seems awfully cramped in that little hall. Could we have a larger hangar tile to fight him in the next time?

[Potency]

5x longer

3500 poly bundles for 1 run

RIP relays

xD

[Stoner]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

6) Fixed the Razorback Cipher not being consumed for all players (it'll be removed at EOM). This will prevent abuse of not spending Ciphers and toxic moments that occurred as a result.

Nothing on the extremely high amount of polymer required then? (Not everyone has hundreds of thousands of spare polymer bundles...)

Feels a bit wrong fixing the event after its over... 

[Rekalty]

1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

Nothing on the extremely high amount of polymer required then? (Not everyone has hundreds of thousands of spare polymer bundles...)

Feels a bit wrong fixing the event after its over... 

I mean, if they WANT the relays destroyed, this is the right move. But yeah, doing nothing at all after the previous event, even though they were told about pretty much the exact same issues, and then AFTER this event is over, saying that they'll fix it for the NEXT time... I'm sure they could have handled it worse than this, but I fail to see how.

[TenStorms]

9 minutes ago, Potency said:

5x longer

3500 poly bundles for 1 run

RIP relays

xD

This.

They should only implement the Fix for the Keys BEFORE they play with the Fleet Health.

I could do 12 Runs with one Key (was doing this until my Key was gone wihtout paying attention if host or not - thx to slow Frost the Door was nearly always open).

Instead to burn 4 Keys, only 1 Key is burned if not done by host...that means we were waaaay faster than we should....this is not a fleet health problem...

[Sannidor]

DE is so wise, learning from mistakes.

Considering how many of these are made, mighty wise indeed... 

[--Q--uixotic]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1) No more level-wide lockdown when a camera spots you (it'll alert enemies to your presence, but the lock-down won't be initiated).

2) Easier hacking puzzles in the Razorback Arena - if you forgot ciphers or just want a moment's reprieve with an easier hack, it'll be there. The Bursa's hacking puzzles are unchanged.

3) Move all rewards to end of mission instead of dropping directly from the boss.

4) Toxin Mods have been removed as rewards.

5) The Armada will have more global health for a longer stay (it should stay approximately 5x longer now).

6) Fixed the Razorback Cipher not being consumed for all players (it'll be removed at EOM). This will prevent abuse of not spending Ciphers and toxic moments that occurred as a result.

It looks like we'll see the Fomorian before the Razorback Armada again, but we expect the next Armada appearance to go as smoothly as a close shave based on these changes!

Thanks to all Tenno who provided constructive feedback on the Armada!

 

 

• No more level-wide lockdown is a welcome fix, thank you.
• hacking puzzles were fine, but ok
• Atlas is back to being pointless if it's only a mission-end reward
• Razorback cipher used too much polymer - as someone who has played too much, 3.5k polymer per cipher wiped me out.
  Anyone even semi-casual would be in polymer-farming-hell

[Trizion]

Can we get a tweak or lower costs for the Razorback Cipher in polymer bundles? 3,500 per cipher is a bit too expensive and even more so for newer players who want to join in for the event.

[kubbi]

Unless the polymer cost is reduced I'm for letting relays filed under dinasaur for extinct.

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

PC Tenno,

Over the weekend you encountered the longtime-coming Razorback Armada, and many of you decided that the razors hadn't been sharpened enough since your last encounter.

While you may have been delighted to find the Gorgon Wraith & Puncture Event Mods return, some issues did crop up! 

So what are we doing to improve things for next time?

1) No more level-wide lockdown when a camera spots you (it'll alert enemies to your presence, but the lock-down won't be initiated).

2) Easier hacking puzzles in the Razorback Arena - if you forgot ciphers or just want a moment's reprieve with an easier hack, it'll be there. The Bursa's hacking puzzles are unchanged.

3) Move all rewards to end of mission instead of dropping directly from the boss.

4) Toxin Mods have been removed as rewards.

5) The Armada will have more global health for a longer stay (it should stay approximately 5x longer now).

6) Fixed the Razorback Cipher not being consumed for all players (it'll be removed at EOM). This will prevent abuse of not spending Ciphers and toxic moments that occurred as a result.

It looks like we'll see the Fomorian before the Razorback Armada again, but we expect the next Armada appearance to go as smoothly as a close shave based on these changes!

Thanks to all Tenno who provided constructive feedback on the Armada!

 

 

What about the incredibly high costs just to build one cipher? 

These changes are good, but they do NOT fix that issue whatsoever. 

It seems after the Hema, we complained, and you guys aren't listening to what we are saying. The grind is too much. Polymer is a commonly used resource, so asking us to use 3500 just for one key is a way, way too much. 

If you do not fix this, a lot of players are going to lose a lot of faith in you guys. Way worse than Fomorian key and not at all equivalent in terms of build costs. 

I am very, very disappointed. As a player who drops a significant amount of money on the game, it gives me pause to do so anymore, when I see that you give such insane resource costs, that even money can't help me there. Nothing can help me there. I simply don't have the time, with a job, to grind that much polymer to actually farm the puncture mods. 

It was too much, and I would like it if our concerns about the key costs were at least acknowledged. I think we deserve an explanation for the keys costing way more than the ones for Fomorian ever did. And a very commonly used resource to boot. 

Please, why did you guys do this? Why will you not consider changing it? Why will you not even address the high resource costs? 

We probably wouldn't have even had the leeching problem being exploited nearly so much if the costs to build the key had been sane, reasonable costs. 

I am starting to lose faith that we are being listened to, because many, many people talked about this over the weekend, and it is the one concern you guys are not even addressing here, much less doing anything about. 

Also, many people complained about the exilus adapter change for invasions. We tried to explain to you guys that people will NEVER take that side in invasions because it is not a worthwhile reward. It is not worthwhile as a reward as a blueprint when it takes two formas to build. Dozens and dozens of posts in that thread complaining, and once again, not only was it not changed back, but our concerns were not even addressed. 

If the lesson you guys have learned from the Hema is to not only double down on the absurd resource costs, but also go silent about it and not even address our feedback when we complain in the future, then I and many others are going to be done with your game. Please, respect your players. We respect you guys, we thank you all the time. We play your game and give you our money and we hope you succeed. But please, respect us too. 

Don't give us absurd resource costs when we tell you it is a problem. And please, please understand that an exilus blueprint is simply never a good reward. If the crafting costs of exilus need to be addressed, or it needs to be removed from Simaris, or something similar -- there are solutions here that aren't zero sum game for both the exilus and cipher blueprints, but you developers right now are treating it like a zero sum game of devs versus players. 

If this adversarial relationship towards players exist, I fear for the future of Warframe. 

 

Edit: Also, the fact you think that those in charge think it is okay, that after we waited months and months, and will have to wait many more months again. That it is okay to not do any live hotfixing, or bring it back early, or actually lower the costs. Nope! Just, keep the costs the same, fix all the stuff we told you about last time, and make us wait another six months to see it. 

I am seriously fed up with this. I defend DE all the time, and I really want to have faith in them, but I am really upset right now. I waited months for this, anticipated it for so long, and then it only lasts a couple days, the costs are absolutely insulting to the players. And the response is "we will fix everything but the absurd costs, you can see it again in about six months, gg". 

Thanks but no thanks. I lost a lot of faith in DE this weekend. Way too little. Way, way too late. And still nothing about the resource costs. 

Do you know how it feels as a paying, loyal player of a game, to be told there were a lot of problems on the developer side that the devs should have fixed or had ready long ago, have some of our concerns not addressed at all, and told to go pound sand for about six months until it appears again?

-Very frustrated Tenno. 

[CroqueMortTime]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

4) Toxin Mods have been removed as rewards.

I didn't mind having those... :)

 

 

[Navarc]

Resource costs need adjustment. Why do so many things use polymer? If you made it 35,000 alloy plates rather than 3500 Polymer I could make more ciphers despite the resource having the same category. Please do not continue using resources that are already overused in blueprints, use the ones we have too much of.

 

[VisionAndVoice]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

5) The Armada will have more global health for a longer stay (it should stay approximately 5x longer now).

6) Fixed the Razorback Cipher not being consumed for all players (it'll be removed at EOM). This will prevent abuse of not spending Ciphers and toxic moments that occurred as a result.

These two are greatly welcomed.

[S0V3REiGN]

Fix the bursas being dumb on the arena. Sometimes they don't do anything other times they sort of just run around underneath the razor back and the boss dies, that bug has not been fixed. 

[Husla]

Thanks DE, I'll wait half a year before it comes into play again. Assuming people will actually care for it. You have so many chances to ask us, if new methods would work but instead you decide for yourself. Usually poor decision then leave it for until after it's done.

- Hacking the bursa's, I approach the bursa to hack it. Doesn't work the first time. So I have to engage it again. I don't want to be stood while there is rockets being fired at me.

- AI of the bursa's. They don't even attack the Razorback. Just stand there not moving. How has this not changed from it's initial release? It was a problem back then and it's still a problem now.

[HellEnforcer]

1 hour ago, AXCrusnik said:

Nano drops on planets that has other stuff you actually need, whereas Poly drops on planets with stuff like Gallium and Morphics, the 2 most abundant of rare resources.

Lies. That's one big lie.

Control Modules are more common.... I am assuming it's supposed to be rare since it drops in quantities of 1. But considering the amount I have makes me wonder.

[AXCrusnik]

2 minutes ago, HellEnforcer said:

Lies. That's one big lie.

Control Modules are more common.... I am assuming it's supposed to be rare since it drops in quantities of 1. But considering the amount I have makes me wonder.

Oh yes, the rare resource thats so common I forgot it was rare. It started when they added it as a drop to the Void.

[scalledcheramie]

6 months of waiting for a 38-hour long event full of issues and these issues only get addressed after the event is over. Even simple bugs like ciphers not being consumed were there all the way until the end. Really, what good are these changes now when there's at least another half a year of waiting ahead?

All polymer bundles wasted on 50 runs and not a single archwing mod drop. I'd like to believe they'll be available at the fomorian alert, but they most likely won't. If that crowdfunded relay rebuilding campaign ever becomes a thing, it won't get any polymers from me, that's for sure.

[Xsoskeleton]

Let's not forget within these 8 months there's some month where the razorback armada progression were suspended.

[Xekrin]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

5) The Armada will have more global health for a longer stay (it should stay approximately 5x longer now).

6 minutes ago, Ghost_Yo said:

6 months of waiting for a 38-hour long event full of issues and these issues only get addressed after the event is over. 

This ^  So we did invasions for other 6 months to get less than 48 hours of the event only to have it 'fixed' after its over so we can do it all over again in 6 more months.  Yippee?

Honestly, unless it has different drops I see little point in doing it all over again.  I didn't even get Gorgon Wraith Blueprint after the 10 runs I managed to squeeze in in two days.  Most of my time was spent in Archwing MD trying to gather the cipher components.  After which I was so burned out I didn't do the actual Razorback runs until many hours later.

Make it 2 cryptowhatsits per cipher, and/or increase their droprate, reduce polymer requirements or make it use (gasp) alloy plates or ferrite, something people have literally millions of.  THAT would make the run smoother for next time.

Also consider a 30 to 40% increase in invasion completion going towards the circle of Wait.  Considering it is now EOM reward, maybe a 5% chance at a double reward to soothe the beast of those who think using farming augment frames is the best way to collect loot.

 

[Jaysus41]

I can't wait until the Razorbacks make it back, we'll lose another relay not due to an enemy, but to an over inflated resource cost. The forums will burn faster and hotter than Kronia ever could.

[Rhundis]

As much as I enjoyed the Razerback armada I remember it being much "bigger", like had to remove the 4 pillars to fit it in the room bigger. What happened? Corpus budget cuts?

[Silentmage]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What about the incredibly high costs just to build one cipher? 

These changes are good, but they do NOT fix that issue whatsoever. 

It seems after the Hema, we complained, and you guys aren't listening to what we are saying. The grind is too much. Polymer is a commonly used resource, so asking us to use 3500 just for one key is a way, way too much. 

If you do not fix this, a lot of players are going to lose a lot of faith in you guys. Way worse than Fomorian key and not at all equivalent in terms of build costs. 

I am very, very disappointed. As a player who drops a significant amount of money on the game, it gives me pause to do so anymore, when I see that you give such insane resource costs, that even money can't help me there. Nothing can help me there. I simply don't have the time, with a job, to grind that much polymer to actually farm the puncture mods. 

It was too much, and I would like it if our concerns about the key costs were at least acknowledged. I think we deserve an explanation for the keys costing way more than the ones for Fomorian ever did. And a very commonly used resource to boot. 

Please, why did you guys do this? Why will you not consider changing it? Why will you not even address the high resource costs? 

We probably wouldn't have even had the leeching problem being exploited nearly so much if the costs to build the key had been sane, reasonable costs. 

I am starting to lose faith that we are being listened to, because many, many people talked about this over the weekend, and it is the one concern you guys are not even addressing here, much less doing anything about. 

Also, many people complained about the exilus adapter change for invasions. We tried to explain to you guys that people will NEVER take that side in invasions because it is not a worthwhile reward. It is not worthwhile as a reward as a blueprint when it takes two formas to build. Dozens and dozens of posts in that thread complaining, and once again, not only was it not changed back, but our concerns were not even addressed. 

If the lesson you guys have learned from the Hema is to not only double down on the absurd resource costs, but also go silent about it and not even address our feedback when we complain in the future, then I and many others are going to be done with your game. Please, respect your players. We respect you guys, we thank you all the time. We play your game and give you our money and we hope you succeed. But please, respect us too. 

Don't give us absurd resource costs when we tell you it is a problem. And please, please understand that an exilus blueprint is simply never a good reward. If the crafting costs of exilus need to be addressed, or it needs to be removed from Simaris, or something similar -- there are solutions here that aren't zero sum game for both the exilus and cipher blueprints, but you developers right now are treating it like a zero sum game of devs versus players. 

If this adversarial relationship towards players exist, I fear for the future of Warframe. 

 

Edit: Also, the fact you think that those in charge think it is okay, that after we waited months and months, and will have to wait many more months again. That it is okay to not do any live hotfixing, or bring it back early, or actually lower the costs. Nope! Just, keep the costs the same, fix all the stuff we told you about last time, and make us wait another six months to see it. 

I am seriously fed up with this. I defend DE all the time, and I really want to have faith in them, but I am really upset right now. I waited months for this, anticipated it for so long, and then it only lasts a couple days, the costs are absolutely insulting to the players. And the response is "we will fix everything but the absurd costs, you can see it again in about six months, gg". 

Thanks but no thanks. I lost a lot of faith in DE this weekend. Way too little. Way, way too late. And still nothing about the resource costs. 

Do you know how it feels as a paying, loyal player of a game, to be told there were a lot of problems on the developer side that the devs should have fixed or had ready long ago, have some of our concerns not addressed at all, and told to go pound sand for about six months until it appears again?

-Very frustrated Tenno. 

I wanted to write a long thought out message to DE. Than Tesseract7777 wrote it for me. I agree with Tesseract7777's every word. Talk to us!