Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Noabettiet]

Jesus where to start. Well i think i will start by saying that i loved the opening mindset to this thread and many of the following suggestions, so that i can finally start by ruining your impressions of sanity of me.

(If it is worth anything, please bare with me, i know i get off tracked a bit but i deeply loved the changes.) 

....

And so EMBER comes to mind.

• Why ember?
  • Well, that has got to do with how much you've sort of contradicted your views, according to the thread, while working on her. The changes aren't fun and don't really solve anything, her kit is still pretty mediocre and situational. You want a damage dealing warframe, but don't want it also to deal too much damage and with this, you can already see what is wrong here.
• What do i propose to change?
  • Well that is a long and debatable reply, but here are my thoughts:
    1. Start by NOT DOING ANYTHING YOU'VE JUST PROPOSED.
       • It is an awful idea and i am willing to believe that, after those changes, everyone will just jump to the next big thing.
         Granted we still don't know what it will be like, or how short of a range it will have, there is little to any reason to have a 5 second build up, till it deals max damage and reduces itself to an shorter range.
         Seconds which, even if moddable to last longer, would still make for the worlds most unstable and boring ability ever.
       • Regardless, while the DAMAGE increase might be handy, at that range you'd either rather just melee enemies or just shoot them. The issue with the skill, was sort of more geared towards fire not being an element that could scale well against armored targets and considering how enemies just scale (endlessly) their armor to ridiculous stages, you just don't have any justification to use it in anything but run and shoot missions like exterminate. (low level ones at that) 
    2. So... why not just switch what it actuality does in a fight? 
       • I get it, you don't want people to cheese an mission by just running by the enemies and making them into some fine grilled meal. That's good, i mean it.
         Maybe the best thing to do to it, is just change how it works: not being a damage dealing ability at all. There is already 2 skills in her kit that deal damage and they aren't all that good, if not outright overshadowed.
         1. ) World on fire, works as a area of affect debuff to enemies ELEMENTAL resistances (more below) and gives bonus synergy to her other abilities. With a slight increase to self damage resistance (more below)
            • This would work as an ability that not only benefits the player regardless of mission but would be a valuable team ability while synergistic with everything. You are not cheesing, you aren't rendering your team useless, you are helping on the slaughter. 
            • The DEBUFF doesn't change regardless of strength mods. Range of ability does however.
            • The Self buff, which i guess is a bit familiar obviously, decreases damage taken. Weather or not you guys think this should increase based on ability strength, is really up to you. But it would really increase build variety.
               
         2. ) Having fireball cast considerably quicker as a spamming ability, so that it can work really well with cast speed mods. BONUS: deals more damage if world on fire is active.
         3. ) Switching Fire blast, to become an (TOGGLE, energy drain) frost globe like stationary skill (like it is already, but effecting all enemies within the circle) to keep burning them for the whole duration it is active.
            • BONUS: If enemies are inside the circle while WORLD ON FIRE is active, they will GRADUALLY become weaker to elemental damage. Armor/shields and body will melt, and so on, as long as they are inside. This not effecting Sentient fragments, etc. 
         4. ) The issue of accelerant. 
            • While it works on current ember, i feel like a better use would be a different skill. It never really made much sense for a warframe themed around fire to just stun enemies, but as you already know, i was inspired by the cooking aspect of the ability, i think this ability would be better served as a AOE knock down ability. Like how some enemies currently punch the ground and a huge explosion happens? Think of FUN stuff here, what would be fun here?

 

So alright, if you guys are still sticking with me on this, here is the rest, less long and boring reads about the other changes:

Ash looks fun like that, maybe just scrap the invulnerable thing and just give him extra invisible time each time he assassinates an target while invisible. Either by a finisher or blade storm.

Atlas change is badass.

Banshee is interesting, confused as to how it will work tho. Is it a duration thing the other "mined" Quakes? or will it drain more energy?

Chroma changes are also interesting, i like the idea of it benefiting the whole team but part of the appeal of chroma was that he could adapt to ridiculous proportions given enough prep time. So sure, it is "fixed" but it might just not be fun to run him, specially because his abilities have a timer and nearly nobody runs a toxic chroma. 
I mean like,  Chroma could need a much needed buff to the other "colors". Some skills need a quality of live improvements and perhaps nerfing his efficiency in becoming an actual tank less than good or fun.

Seriously good luck.

 

Gara changes are a bit self defeating no? I mean if you are defending a point, your first course of action shouldn't be waiting for them, so that you could protect with molding glass.
Honestly, i think her whole set is confusing. My first impression when she was announced, would be that i would get to stab enemies with some fine thin molten glass.
Apparently she also blinds and stuff. Maybe when they break the glass walls, it could potentially trigger a slash proc in the damaged wall?
I don't know.

Mag

• Crush is still as it is, but the animation and other aspects change. (like it only dealing  damage and "crushing enemy armor")
  • Animation is just a simple (AND FAST) gesture of crushing: open hand traumatically and sensually and close it furiously with the power 3 billion dying suns.
  • HOLD 4 (the button in which activates said skill) to keep crushing.
    • Decreased damage than initial damage when cast
    • Gradually crush enemy armor and hold them in place (while draining armor)
    • Drains while holding the crushed enemies
    • Walk slightly slower while holding enemies

 

Volt changes are actuality fine. I like the idea of it dealing less damage the further away.
Maybe make like a SOFT CAP to the range at which how far it can extend. And maintain stun times regardless of distance. With some tweaks as to the base range at which it deals max damage, maybe? enemies which were manually electrocuted by volt shock work like a battery which will spread the casted discharge further away.

ZEPHYR

• make AIR BURST projectiles, which hit the ground(or wall) near zephyr, work like a rocket jump. Increase cast times so it can be used with ease and decrease the rag dolling a bit please. :/

 

 

Thank you everyone and uh.. i am sorry if some these replies sound a tad rude or super dumb. I realize that you may not chose to do these but i hope at least something good can come out of here.

Good luck :D

Edited February 5, 2018 by Noabettiet

[TinySuperSalad]

Ember Melee Build!

I want one :D

[ADDgamer45]

How about a poll for people with at least a few forma into a frame that asks if they like the changes to a frame or not?

[Kategari]

Hmm... There are many ways to fix Mag but I don't think Crush replenishing shields is one of them. It makes half of Polarise redundant. 

Please make Crush do finishing damage as it thematically should.

[Rammone-X]

So wow! Amazing Changes! Everything sounds wonderful! I am particularly excited for Zephyr's "Air burst" - That sounds amazing. Also allowing her to control Tornados, and making them grow by air bursting them, and also shooting them to kill cc'd enemies? That just sounds fantastic!

I am so excited for these changes. They sound well thought of and balanced. The only suggestion I have is as follows:

 

• Why not allow Atlas to move around freely when casting Petrify, similar to Chroma's Spectral scream changes? It seems a little strange that Chrome can move freely while casting Spectral Scream, but Atlas's movements are limited for Petrify.

 

Everything else sounds awesome!

[ScorpDK]

Overall, liking all the changes. Not sure if they're enough to help them stand out and get picked more, but we gotta test them firsthand to see just how impactful they really are.

 

Loving the Zephyr changes, tho. The hovering in midair and projectile attack sound quite interesting :D (totally not saying I saw those two coming / mentioned them in chat several times, but I did XD)

 

 

[Lored]

Thnx DE for another Nerfs, and useless Buffs. New Atlas looks like old Atlas, with shiny...

Спойлер

Hope in future, all frames become Sups, not Killers, or Tanks. Except Trinity, she must be nerfed one more time! Or two?..

[MirageKnight]

1 minute ago, HarrodTasker said:

How does this help anyone at all?

It helps other players by making sure they can actually play Warframe with other people - and by play I mean kill things.

Now you poor Ember players will have to actually use your other abilities and play nice with others, instead of being able to press 4 and run around like deranged chickens in an attempt to burn everything in sight before anyone has a chance to do anything.

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

the thing is this rework is a MASSIVE nerf for players who build ember around crowd control using firequake augment, big range and low power strength. 

That's their fault for playing Ember like a one-trick, kill-grabbing pony.

7 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

It is just a blatant nerf to her 4 her useless abilities weren't touched whatsoever.

Call it what you will, but maybe now her other skills will get some use, now that WoF is going to have its EZ-mode status revoked. Admit it, WoF currently overshadows everything else in her kit due to high ease of use and high reward.

19 minutes ago, Nikitalebedin said:

Hear me DE, don't kill Ember, "fun" can be different.

I think most of us have had quite enough of that "fun".

[schilds]

If the range is too low, Ember's survivability at high levels will be significantly decreased.

[Shadedraxe]

I like mag, magnetize is a really strong ability and pull is a good cc for a first ability, but polarize and crush are still underwhelming with the proposed changes. How about polarize having a percentage of armor and shield strip instead of a base value? And how about Crush actually crippled enemies since it “magnetizes” their bones and “crushes” them. If it worsens enemy movement and aim it would add a lot more cc to it than just a panic button that lasts for the duration of the cast. As for the shield replenishment, it’s not gonna do much without shield-gating (if we are even getting shield gating that is). Sheilds don’t benefit from armor value so they go down far too quickly in later stages to give a low health frame any real survivability. A lot of other squishy frames have cc/utility abilities that give them survivability, and Harrow is a special outlier that can be made somewhat tanky through the use of shields in this case because he can gain overshields with a rapid, low costing, cc ability that also benefits his faster fire rate, self-healing ability. Mag really struggles with survivability. She could really use some cc for her ult. Magnetize already is her damage dealer. And polarize already grants shields to you and allies (you could just make polarize grant overshields and change the augment. Why have two abilities that grant shields?)

[KlutzMeister]

if we are going to get rocks stuck on atlas, maybe update atlas rock's texture?

Where does his rocks come from? No, not the ground, he can use his powers on corpus ships and his rocks aren't red on mars... obviously they are created from energy(space+magic=mc^{sideways 8}), so make his rocks look like like partially cooled lava, emissive color based on your energy color. (also shrikoro is kind of volcano like)

 

also, are you going to do more warframes, nezha seems like he could be touched a bit.

his chakram should move faster at the very least... increased aoe on his heal, more survivability, lower energy drain on fire-trail would be helpful, and maybe increase fire-trail's width/runspeed with range/power.... also if you up his survivability, maybe make his warding halo base aoe larger and have a damage reduction zone instead of a health shield... or at least let us heal the halo with chakram's heal.

[ADDgamer45]

I'll just stick to making everyone invincible with oberon.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

So still no CC Chroma

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, schilds said:

If the range is too low, Ember's survivability at high levels will be significantly decreased.

If only Ember had other abilities that stunned enemies.

[LSG501]

58 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That's their fault for playing Ember like a one-trick, kill-grabbing pony.

Did you even read what I put down...

CROWD CONTROL, not trying to kill everything, the firequake augment has 100% change of knockdown. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I'll tell you a little secret, if you're using her for her 4th then you're playing her wrong to begin with. I've been building around her Accelerant for a few months thanks to input from the forums. Her current 4th is a joke.

In all honesty I've found the firequake build with low power strength and high range to be more than enough for a crowd control build, works perfectly fine on t3 sortie and above.  Not every build relies on ember killing everything.

Edited February 3, 2018 by LSG501
forgot to add range

[KaeseSchnitte]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Since sound waves can hit through walls, the humongous area of effect can prevent enemies from getting anywhere near the objective, while the casting player is left with nothing to do but wait. [Implying they want to change that]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

BANSHEE:

Q: Will enemies far away be affected by less stun, or only less damage?
A: Stun is still consistent at any point on the Quake. First hit has changed to a ragdoll as well!

So what now?

[JohnKable]

i am one of the many using ember only for the firequake mod for low ranged but constant cc. She wasnt even capable of killing level 30s.
Now maybe Ember is not nerfed to trash tier, but the cc build definitely is, because of range and hard to sustain energy cost. im kinda disappinted.

looks like they want ultimate abilities to be far worse than any half-modded mid tier weapon, kill wise atleast. And no, you dont even need to aim with a weapon like amprex in a mission with levels under 30, everything just dies passing by.

Wont cry about the nerf, just liked her cc build but will use something different instead. Im fine that they want us to actually play the game, but atleast make it a fun grind instead of just getting rid of everything that makes that grind barely acceptable

[(PSN)Doctor__Zaius]

Whoa! That change to Tailwind is almost exactly what I suggested the other day, with the hover and everything! (Here's a link--https://forums.warframe.com/topic/911144-a-new-kit-for-the-zephyr-rework/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-9429443--just because I still can't believe I called it!) So excited!

But, anyway, some quick feedback for feedback's sake:

• Can we get an option to hold 1 to recast just the hover? That was one of the only differences between my idea and what's listed here.
• Also, can we toggle that follow on the tornadoes somehow? Whenever people suggested the aim-able Tornado here on the forums, my fear has always been that it would get really annoying if they jump in front of wherever you're aiming.

Regardless, thank you! So excited for the new possibilities with my girl, Zeph! 

Edited February 2, 2018 by (PS4)Doctor__Zaius

[kyori]

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Connor

Banshee - I can foresee that players will spam her 4, and with bright energy color, they will caused seizure or irritation to teammates. Casting sound may serve the same problem. This is like the case of nuke Limbo all over again.

Chroma - Answer to a question said Chroma's damage buff stacks with other Chromas... but you guys also mentioned you didn't want your Eidolons to be one-shotted. Contradiction?

Mag - Her 4 casting speed is still relatively slow. She will be dead before she claps her hands in high level.

Edited February 2, 2018 by kyori

[schilds]

Mag can kill a whole group of lvl 150 bombards in one shot ....

[ADDgamer45]

1 minute ago, kyori said:

@[DE]Rebecca

Banshee - I can foresee that players will spam her 4, and with bright energy color, they will caused seizure or irritation to teammates. Casting sound may serve the same problem. This is like the case of nuke Limbo all over again.

Chroma - Answer to a question said Chroma's damage buff stacks with other Chromas... but you guys also mentioned you didn't want your Eidolons to be one-shotted. Contradiction?

Mag - Her 4 casting speed is still relatively slow. She will be dead before she claps her hands in high level.

You do know how mag's 4 works right? If you have enough range nothing can shoot you because if they enter the range they get picked up.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ADDgamer45

[schilds]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

If only Ember had other abilities that stunned enemies.

Do you know short their stuns are? Have you ever played Ember at a level where enemies don't die in one hit?

[RayDigrus]

6 minutes ago, No_Quarter said:

Ember Nerf is the same thing, people running with ember and killing everything before you can see it is just bad for the gameplay, no one is having fun, not even guy playing Ember as he is not doing anything. AFK defense ezpz. Recent reworks and reworks mentioned on streams are to change this so players have to actually, you know, play the game in order to complete the mission. I know, it is insane but there you go, take it as you like.

Excuse me, sir, but you are not the person to say that for everybody. I am having fun with Ember with WoF on simply because I prefer to focus on different parts of gameplay - exploring. That's one of the ways I prefer to play Warframe and I should not be obliged to play it in any specific manner.

 

Ember's nerf brings only inconvenience, as far as it's possible to say from the text.

[Sumarbrandr]

Rebecca tested Volt's discharge on leech eximi (aka the enemies even a maxed-out peacemaker takes a long time to kill for Warframe standards) - we don't actually know how it deals with endgame armored normal enemy. If he just CC's them at level 100 armored (aka sortie 3), welp "Volt is not CC" so what? Also discharge would be better scalling of duration even if that means to put the base range to the lowest possible, the reason being: Volt needs to be modded for everything just because discharge exists as is and it prevents a effective build that plays to all his post-workshop strenghts. 

Also, Shock needs a offensive-oriented buff too if they want him to actually be a true alternative to gunplay - where shock would have a similar role to Virulence and be a decent-to-good dps without need of guns. Maybe use Volt's passive to buff it indirectly by incentivizing the player to move a lot (Speed) and build up the passive.  

 

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Connor

Edited February 2, 2018 by LastRide

[Yagamilight123]

Time to use Equinox .