[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[BasicBruce]

I WAS enjoying Revenant. Everything is fine and good with the tweaks except for them increasing his energy drain for danse macabre 63%...why?? With my build I'd spend 14 energy/s to use his #4 and with the lasers being collision based with no punch through sometimes it takes 3-5 rotations to kill a room packed with enemies.

The benefit of the added overshield means nothing to me as his enthrall is weak any way you slice it. It takes too long or it takes too much energy to spread the marks and even then I would of been just better off killing them straight up or blowing them away with his 4. Not to mention teammates killing them instantly and wasting your energy and time.

This was not a good way to handle the "set it and forget it" approach (maybe if they're trying to get people to not play him). I understand you want people to actually play the game but the 99% of the community that doesn't tab out and watch netflix gets stuck with the nerfs and pushes them back to their old frames. Those AFK affinity farmers will go right back to their macro banshee/oberon set up and do the same thing they were doing before Revenant

[Strange-Music]

Thralls are useless as they are now. I've seen some ideas to have them just kamikaze themselves into other enemies and explode with damage similar to Nova's 4 mixed with the fire effect. How you would balance it so that it's not just an insta-kill on enthralled enemies I'm not entirely sure. The way it is now though is completely useless. They get no extra damage, health, take damage from all sources and they don't provide any sort of buff to Revenant besides useless overshields (when killed by him). Nyx's Chaos is better 90% of the time as it makes the enemies more aggressive to each other, covers way more targets, and can have the AoE area leftover from the augment. Nyx's 1 also works better. Nekros also works better due to no friendly fire, health increases, and damage increases. Even with damage increases enemies suck at killing each other. The idea behind thralls is to not have them kill each but to spread the effect however, you get absolutely nothing from spreading it so why bother? His three costs way too much to use regularly and kind of sucks. His two can be made to be decent but you have to go full power strength which is dumb. His four was ok but boring but now it's just pretty bad due to the massive energy requirements.

[ConsumerJTC]

7 thrall cap isn't enough to justify it as a good ability whilst your friends are running around on the fly and accidentally killing them.

Give them the saryn spore spread treatment until the duration ends so that the ability is actually has time to adapt towards newer enemies whilst not being rendered useless by your team members.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ConsumerJTC

[Xaranoth]

4 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

I think we're expecting too much from a 1st ability tbh.....20 thralls will never happen when we only have 7 shadows, though with much more benefits and QoL

Have you seen saryn or nidus?

18 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

The sad thing is, even if DE went all out and put through those extreme buffs I suggested above, Revenant would still not be a "meta" Warframe. Other Warframes would CC better, DPS better, tank better. But at least Revenant would do a thing (Make minions, then kill them in a glorious light show) and do it effectively.

The sad thing is, those aren’t even “extreme” buffs. Those are just fixes to make revenants abilities actually able to do what their intended purpose is without being stopped short by arbitrary and unnecessary hard caps. I really like your ideas there, hopefully this goes the way of the Oberon and hydroid reworks where they overnerfed and then brought back up to an actually somewhat useful state, but I’m not super hopeful after what happened with khora. Or rather, what didn’t happen with her after she got released.

[killstock]

make his 1 'thrall' limitless reduce base duration make enthrall proc chance low affected by power strengh only can be cast once need to wait for duration to recast after duration ends all thrall turn normal

make his 2 casting speed significantly faster and higher charge or just make it recasterble, enemy who get's stun gets higher chance to be turned thrall and also pulls thrall agro

 

make his 3 pull all his thrall in range to his front reduce cast time halve the numbr of thralls as a second cost

 

make his 4 15/16 energy  per sec

[DrBorris]

3 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

I think we're expecting too much from a 1st ability tbh.....20 thralls will never happen when we only have 7 shadows, though with much more benefits and QoL

Mechanically, I would like to see Thralls like Saryn's Spore. Spore is not just an ability, it is the foundation for Saryn's kit and playstyle. Actually, it is also kind of like Limbo and the Rift, or Mag and Polarize. These abilities do a thing on their own, but the Warframe is designed to amplify the "foundation" ability with the rest of their abilities. Imagine if Saryn had a limit to the amount of enemies that could have spores.

 

Also, why will 20 never happen? I am serious when I compare it to Chaos, an ability that instantly affects all enemies in a 25m AoE without a LoS restriction. Seriously, take a step back and look at what the Thralls' role on the battlefield actually is, not what the flavor text says they are.

Edited August 30, 2018 by DrBorris

[SteelSoldier]

For the love of god make the thralls turn into friendly vomvalysts after they die so they can at least be of some use for the Revenant, I would rather have that than the stupid eruptions on the damn floor

[ConsumerJTC]

We did not ask for more target practice, we wanted practical slaves!

Also do have his abilities feed on his Mesmer Skin rather than his shield and health, as those would never get touched on once his Mesmer Skin is active.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ConsumerJTC

[Sannleikur]

The new changes aren't improvements or balancing....

Why would I even use this frame over other AOE frames? and it still doesn't even count as a CC frame so hands down any CC frame can out CC this one.

Even Ember outperforms it in overall CC and damage over area. And ember needs some solid changes like what saryn got.

Enthrall Player Note: Buffing Enthrall's cap to match nekros's max shadows is stupid because nekros and his teammates can't damage his shadows, and his shadows are super buffed on top of that, not to mention far more easily maintained. Either give him a high cap of like 20, or remove the cap entirely, because, AGAIN, players can damage his thralls.


Dance Mac Player Note: If you don't want to make a skill a set it and forget it, perhaps don't make it so powerful coming out right off the bat alongside the inability to use anything else. Let it get buildup of range and damage over time, like what you should have dome with Ember's WoF. BTW, I can still MASSIVELY outdamage Revenant with saryn and mag and even ember and banshee and a handful of other AOE frames with 1-2 button pushes. without moving. 

Making energy cost so sigh without changing how the ability works will only work in curbing the "set it and forget it" playstyle by making people NOT PLAY HIM AT ALL.

Reave Player Note: Energy cost and hp and shield returns for reave are still horrible. 

Mesmer Player Note: Needs more counts and to be able to cast during 4 to be decent. DECENT, mind you, not "Amazing".


 

[Noibat]

The difference is that thralls synergies with reave.  Put too many thralls in, and suddenly reave becomes exceptionally overpowered.  7 is good.  I like 7.

[RYNDW]

Apologies if this comes off as more of a concept post.

Personally I see Revenant as more of an "Eidolon" frame than a strictly Sentient frame with remnants of the whole vampire concept left in his first three abilities. An Eidolon is sentient energy that tries to take form by using it's surroundings, right? So why not have his powers based around elements found in the plains (water, rocks etc.) or what actually makes an Eidolon (Teralyst). The one thing I like about Danse Macabre is that the damage adapts depending on the target, so why not create powers that work on a similar principle.

For example:

• Each power is characterized around a basic element, doing one type of damage
• Using two powers simultaneously creates compound/different damage types
• "Water" ability + "Rock" ability = a small wave that does impact damage or sweeps smaller mobs away
• "Fire" + "Electricity" = creates a radius of radiation/magnetic damage

These are really rough examples, and you could probably argue that these would be more suited for a frame designed around elements, regardless; I personally think his powers could be a bit more interesting than press 4 to win and occasionally create a thrall that gets killed by squad mates almost immediately.

 

P.S. From a visual standpoint I LOVE his design, it's up there with Nidus and Mesa as one of my favorites. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by RYNDW

[I.V.A.R.A]

His max efficiency energy usage was already 3.75/sec. The energy increase is absolutely ridiculous. Give his 4 the always boosted damage, with the previous energy drain and make us have to click like peacemaker to get the beams to come out... not massively punish every other ability he has on a caster frame that already has a unfathomably-low energy pool  coupled with a  ridiculously high energy usage for an ability (3) that takes so long to use you'll be dead before you remember it exists. It will still be different from peacemaker because you'll be able to use it without enemies present. At least let him have *something* worth using because no matter what you do mesmer skin will be as clunky and unused as Nezhas halo because it cannot be refreshed/recast.

 

I don't mean to sound so rude, but I know you play the game Rebecca... but I wish the people who make these frames actually played too. Revenant is... not fun. Casting times, energy usage, energy pool, shields are useless unless used for fueling an ability, having to spend all that energy to get over shields that will be one-shot is plain stupid, mesmer skin doesn't work on half the damage the game can give (exploding barrels, void lasers, etc) yet still takes charges (which should just be a duration cast anyways not micromanaging charges that can't be recast and take 15 minutes to cast even if you notice they're gone)

[Vyprime]

 

[CaelThunderwing]

if you want to shut people up on the energy drain Undo this stupid Idea of a nerf, and look at how to Scale that drain, ya've done it with a few frames allready! (Banshee's Quake, Embers World on Fire, Valkyr's Hysteria! )  so why couldn't you do this to Revenant ?  if your GOING to make it cost 20/s make it ramp up slowly then crease per a preset milestone, , alow it to be more affected by efficiency, forcing us to mix up builds for damage, CC or Usability,

forcing us to change the loadout more by mods to deal w/ teh drain may still leave a "Set n forget"  but not to the same damned level the teabag that caused this to happen!  as mentioned previously by someone, by the frames verry nature and how channeled abilities work, a set n forget is going to happen even if its a few moments.

Slow rampups, this gives us to use it at full strength upto a certain time before we haveto start being mindful of our energy,  consider if we need to focus on other abilities,

but this 20/s w/o too much to do w/o making him more useless, has only done to chase people from plat buying it, people from farming it. some allready in the update thread saying they've airlocked it. and some from not even wanting to touch it in teh first place.  i can bet theres people even on the console platforms right now in chat cursing us PC Players out for this. hell i'd be joining that Singalong of "Blame the PC's"  (as now im juggling a PS4 account since i have the system )  and given i've only started teh quest here on pc, after this nerf? i dont want to bother with the frame and going to ignore it when it comes to consoles.

(ohh how cute having my glyph forcibly changed after that rant here and in update thread! Reaal... cute... >_> + now i cant change it and get it to stick. thats real *fin adorable too. )

Edited August 30, 2018 by CaelThunderwing

[LSG501]

 

Quote

• Enthrall cap for thralled enemies increased from 4 to 7.
  • Developer Note: We listened to the feedback that 4 was too few, so we’ve buffed the number to match Nekros’ max Shadows.
• Danse Macabre energy cost increased from 12.5 to 20 energy per second.
  • Developer Note: In keeping with changes we've made to Warframes in the past to deter from the "set it and forget" approach, we have increased the energy per second on Danse Macabre. We are hoping that with Enthrall's cap increase you can benefit from more overshield pickups with Danse Macabre.

So basically DE ignored the feedback except from those wanting it nerfed....

So let me get this straight, you change his 1 to make it look like you've listened yet completely ignore the fact that the thralls are dying within seconds of them being cast because they have no immortality or protection from ANYTHING around them....

You then go and change his 4 so that it costs even more, it was already higher than most others to stop 'set and forget' (hadn't even seen that in all honesty because we needed to stop to re-enable his 2), while using the extra overshield pickups from enthralls as the 'compensation' while at the same time ignoring the fact there won't be any enthralled enemies for us to get the overshield pickups from.....

The only change I saw which might be beneficial is the change to his 2 where it now blocks status effects yet I don't actually think I saw anyone was complaining about that 'downside' to it, most wanted it to be recastable or refreshable.

You just got to love DE's current approach to new frames where they totally ignore the issue people have with and just listen to those that want things nerfing for no reason....

Edited August 30, 2018 by LSG501

[KubrowTamer]

DE "Look we got a feedback forum for the new warframe"
Players "Posts constructive feedback"
DE "legs ignore all of it and do the exact opposite of what was suggested and nerfs 4"


DE, if your going to ignore player feedback then just don't post these to begin with. The recent changes to Rev are a prime example of ignoring player feedback.
If your not going to take feedback then don't post feedback forums. Its borderline lying to us at this point.

"im going to make a feedback forum, but only for the reason to make the community think they have any say in what happens, we don't actually care about their feedback"

Exactly what this entire topic feels like. You had an entire week to read through these ideas and you settled on the one nobody wanted or probably even suggested here.

[Madway7]

"We are hoping that with Enthrall's cap increase you can benefit from more overshield pickups with Danse Macabre.  We’re always looking to iterate on your feedback, please leave yours in the dedicated Revenant feedback megathread! "

Ok I will. Just an immediate suggestion.

Passive & shields

If you want to insist on making him gain shields (which, overshields or not, is worse than health atm), change his passive to damage reduction to shields. (40 or 50%, unmoddable)

QoL

Buff the cast time of Mesmer Skin, Reave and Enthrall.

Halve Reaves energy cost while using it with Dance Macabre

Allow Mesmer Skin and Enthrall to be cast while in Dance Macabre

Edit:

-Allow Reave to restore Mesmer Skin charges.

-Swap Mesmer Skin with Reave so Mesmer Skin is his 3 and Reave is his 2, so the energy cost changes too. 

 

Mesmer Skin

Change mesmer skin to only apply to health damage. This is to make the passive useful. (Even if its the same as it currently is)

Give Mesmer Skin a form of gating (2 seconds between using charges) 

 

And please fix it

Nullifiers and enemies inside them still ignore Mesmer skin.

Toxin clouds from dead Nox's ignore mesmer skin completely

Mesmer skin still has rounding issues where you can end up with 0 charges.

Reave

Buff lifesteal and shield steal to to 20% vs non thralled targets (instead of leaving it at 40% in the UI just list it at 20% and say its double for thralls)

Allow it to give shields from non shielded units. 

 

Dance Macabre

The energy change of Dance Macabre is too much considering it's all the warframe really has going for it.

Edit: Nvm, just revert the change.

 

General

In general I feel like this warframe should be taken back to the drawing board. And brought back with a kit fully focussed around eidolons and sentients.

From the start I saw major issues with the thrall mechanic and they just got worse with the lowered cap.

Pretty sure at this point changing his kit entirely isn't an option, but I still wanted to say it in case he ever got a rework (or the small possibility that it's still an option on the table)

I have little hope for this warframe after seeing the first set of changes.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Madway7
Added Reave section

[Bleako]

Here are my proposed changes for Revenant.

Passive: Revenant now also gains 20% damage reduction against the damage type that triggered the radial blast (permanent until replaced when a new radial blast occurs)

Enthrall: Now also affects all targets within 10 meters of the initial target on cast. Removed unit limit (see Mesmer Skin).

Mesmer Skin: When walking within 10 meters of an Enthralled enemy while Mesmer Skin is active, that enemy becomes immune to friendly-fire, gains 25% damage reduction and follows Revenant around. 5 units max.

Reave: The ability can now be charged to increase distance and health/energy drain by up to 100%. During the charge time, Revenant is immobile and immune to damage (similar behavior to Vomvalysts).

Danse Macabre: When killing Enthralled enemies with Danse Macabre, the energy pillars' radius is increased to 5m.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Bleako

[Jabett]

7 thralls is still bad due to them being killed way too easily, each charge on 2 needs an damage immunity period between charges, 3 us clunky and 4 drain means it's a trash move. Over Rev is not worth using and is MR fodder until his 4 drain is reduced and his 2+1 are majorly buffed 

[TKDancer]

id rather reave give us the power to get mesmer skin stacks instead of enthralling

[Cook-EN-]

He's still perfectly useable. They didn't nerf his damage, did they? DE has said time and time again that they don't like the 'Press 4 and AFK' mentality. That's why they nerfed his energy consumption. You can easily mod around the energy consumption rate too.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Cook-EN-

[Rankii]

Just going to repost this here where it's also relevant. Though if this update is any indication they don't actually read any of this unless it asks for a nerf.

• Quote

   

  • Enthrall cap for thralled enemies increased from 4 to 7.
    • Developer Note: We listened to the feedback that 4 was too few, so we’ve buffed the number to match Nekros’ max Shadows.

   

  •  

Players have also wanted the thralls to NOT IMMEDIATELY DIE IF ANOTHER PLAYER SHOOTS THEM.

Yes, more thralls are nice. Though a nice even number like ten would have been personally preferable since unlike Nekros you can't heal or resummon them. But none of that matters when someone can just follow you around and shoot your thralls like a petty little bastard. This is even more baffling since every other skill in revenant's kit is only made useful when interacting with Enthrall or the resulting thralls. Why is this ability so underpowered when it's the backbone of the kit?

• Quote

   

  • Danse Macabre energy cost increased from 12.5 to 20 energy per second.
    • Developer Note: In keeping with changes we've made to Warframes in the past to deter from the "set it and forget" approach, we have increased the energy per second on Danse Macabre. We are hoping that with Enthrall's cap increase you can benefit from more overshield pickups with Danse Macabre.  We’re always looking to iterate on your feedback, please leave yours in the dedicated Revenant feedback megathread! 

   

Again, we can't benefit from the absolutely tiny overshield pickup if all thralls die the moment another player enters the area and blasts everything indiscriminately. Increase the overshield to AT LEAST 100 because that current pickup may as well be a sticky note saying "IOU, One(1) Useful ability" for all it's worth. One basic grunt with a cleaver on Ani will wipe away that pickup's shieldworth in an instant. On top of that, the energy cost being increased with no corresponding power increase is just asinine. This means that on higher level content Revenant users are now less inclined to use the ability since you're spending precious energy that could be used to channel Life Strike through a weapon on a skill that doesn't have the power or durability to matter (this also somewhat applies to Reave, but I've already given up on that being worthwhile). Energy pickups aren't as plentiful as you guys seem to think they are. Anyways the skill is still "Set it, and forget it" but now it refers to setting it down and forgetting about actually getting anything out of it.

[ConsumerJTC]

16 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

The only change I saw which might be beneficial is the change to his 2 where it now blocks status effects yet I don't actually think I saw anyone was complaining about that 'downside' to it, most wanted it to be recastable or refreshable..

I don't think so. 

[Lokime]

There is SO many ways to get energy and yet people complain 😶

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

1 minute ago, Cook-EN- said:

He's still perfectly useable. They didn't nerf his damage, did they? DE has said time and time again that they don't like the 'Press 4 and AFK' mentality. That's why they nerfed his energy consumption. You can easily mod around the energy consumption rate.

yes but at what cost in terms of build diversity?