[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[R.E.B_99]

The buff to his 1 is pretty good , but the ability still non existent in public , the aggro is terrible , his second ability takes a long time to cast and in sorties it's basically non existent as well , if it would automatically enthrall enemies and thralls would draw aggro then it would be usable , his 3 is ok-ish , maybe speed up the first part of the animation at least , and his 4th ability energy cost is just wayyyy too much , it was the only ability really worth using and this nerf brought the frame close to mastery fodder . Even just removing the cap on thralls or making it 10 or more like on the devstream would save him

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, Azvalk said:

The new energy cost is not really bad.
It is even rather well chosen.
This 4 has monstrous damage ability, it is normal not to be able to hold it for a long time.
And anyway there are plenty of ways in the game to have a lot of energy.
Make sure you have 175% efficiency, and it will cost 5 / s
There is really nothing to complain about on this point.

It really is bad though. 5/s is tolerable but it requires max efficiency modding (and some duration). This means the damage potential drops because you won't be using blind rage or transient fortitude for most builds because it will severely gimp the efficiency/cost to where using the ability as intended (in combination with 1, 2 and 3) results in far less overall effectiveness.

[Concido]

Hey dudes, I've really been enjoying Revenant so far but I do have one small suggestion that I think would vastly improve his kit.

If you examine his ability's interactions I think it's pretty easy to see where there's a flaw to how Revenant operates at the moment:
Enthrall spreads when your thralls damage other enemies.

Dead thralls produce highly damaging energy pillars.
Reave requires you to damage your thralls to gain increased life and shield steal.
Danse Macabre requires you to kill your thralls to gain overshields.

I think by now you may be able to see where I'm going, but it should be obvious that the way Enthrall spreads is completely incongruous to the rest of his kit. What I'm proposing is for thralls to spread the Enthrall effect on death. Thralls were never meant to stay alive, they're meant to be killed. But the way they spread now means you quickly run out of thralls and don't really gain all that much from them. On the other hand if they spread the effect when they died, Revenant would be able to provide consistent, valuable, benefits to himself and his team so long as there were enemies around. The thrall cap would ensure this doesn't get out of hand, and more expendable thralls mean Revenant would have a lot more options without having to worry about not getting the most from his other abilities. Enthrall would be capable of spreading for its entire duration, making it worth casting for energy instead of waiting for a Mesmer Skin opening, and thralls could be strategically killed to create energy pillars at choke points or in the center of large groups. Reave would have more utility as killing thralls with it would no longer impact other abilities, meaning it could see use for mobility along with the leech. Danse Macabre would now be able to provide a constant amount of overshields to Revenant's squad for as long as he can maintain it. To me it seems like this is how Enthrall was meant to work, a consistent cycle of death and control to empower Revenant and his allies. I really hope you'll consider this because I feel it would solve a lot issues with Revenant's kit.

Have a nice day. 😊

[AlinaBee]

Needs actual rework, 4 is the same no-gameplay auto nuke. Should be remade into an ability that takes player input.

[Azvalk]

the problem of Mesmer skin charges that consumed too quickly according to some, could be adjusted with the possibility of recast when you want.
But being able to recast an ability of invincibility is something far too Op.

I suggest that if we reuse the skill, while we still have charges, the armor bursts to deliver damage in the area.
the damage could depend on the number of remaining charges.
In this way, we retain our moment of vulnerability, but at least we will be able to choose when this moment will occur.
And by the way we gain an opportunity to place a new visual effect of eidolon energy deployment.

Such a change could almost be a good augment mod.
But if that's the case, I already see people complaining that it's not part of the base ability.

 

il y a 5 minutes, Leqesai a dit :

It really is bad though. 5/s is tolerable but it requires max efficiency modding (and some duration). This means the damage potential drops because you won't be using blind rage or transient fortitude for most builds because it will severely gimp the efficiency/cost to where using the ability as intended (in combination with 1, 2 and 3) results in far less overall effectiveness

I have 169% power strengh ( 2112, and 4225 damage /s ) in my build with 175% efficiency..
There is no need for more.
I'm already melting the enemies instantly ..
Even if I hit 5000 or more, I will not melt them more instantly than that.

We don't want a Godframe.
Godframe always end up being wildly nerve.
Let's be reasonable ..

[PaperKnight_]

I personally think His 4 should have energy leeaching When you kill..or damage enemies.Or it can be his passive.or drop more energy balls, like 10%chance for more energy balls...or have him when hee is using his 4 better pickup range like vacuum

Edited August 30, 2018 by PaperKnight_

[Azvalk]

il y a 5 minutes, PaperKnight_ a dit :

I personally think His 4 should have energy leeaching When you kill..or damage enemies.Or it can be his passive.or drop more energy balls, like 10%chance for more energy balls...

if he must have energy leeching, I think it should be in his 3.
In the way of Nidus 1.
This will make up for the excessive energy cost some people complain about.
Without really changing this energy cost.

[DrBorris]

Well, except that Revenant's kit seems to encourage killing the Thralls. Thralls are not supposed to be Revenat's buddies, he is a vampire. He takes them under his control so he can murder them. Nyx is the frame that makes AI buddies.

 

And even Shadows of the Dead on a power strength build can't kill anything, no "adaptive damage" is going to change that case unless it is in the thousands of percent.

[Frostyinferno]

Now that I've spent a little more time testing it, the energy cost is still too much on his 4, but not quite as drastically horrible as I first thought. However, it still makes his boosted 4 WAY too costly. I would still like to see it lowered, maybe not to the original levels, but not 20 energy per second.

As I said in my earlier post, the main problem still persists. None of revenant's synergies make any sense. His passive is on shield loss, but he has a ton of shields, plus ways to get overshields, PLUS COMPLETE DAMAGE IMMUNITY. This not only makes his passive basically pointless, but the synergy between 1 and 4 for gaining overshields pointless as well.  On top of that, it makes Reave also pointless, because more shields or health doesn't matter when he has a complete damage negate through Mesmer Skin. As many people pointed out, Reave/ Danse+ thralls shouldn't give health/shields/overshields, but instead more Mesmer Skin stacks. Especially Reave, considering you can use it while using Danse.

[MunsuLight]

DE you really missed the mark on the Revenant changes.

You didnt want his #4 to be a fire and forget and you wanted to see Enthrall used more, or thats what it seems like from the changes and the reasoning. Well increasing the cost on Dance wont see more use of thralls since the synergy they provide is garbage compared to the cost and time it takes to pop them out. Also the increase in Dance cost means more itemization needed for us to use it like pre-patch, even for us that didnt use it as a fire and forget. That results in gimping our range, meaning Enthrall will have a range of 10m. No one will utilize them more now than before

As someone said already said in the thread. Enthrall (single target CC ) ability in a horde shooter is pure useless unless the enemy is not killed....   and in a group setup everything is killed too fast to matter. The bonus it give after being killed by 4 is negligible. Overshield ? Please. Shield on frame without DR is useless 

His 2 is fine as it is .. But please dont let the Kuva ladies, Scorch kill all hit in one of their shots. Only timed I died as him with the skin up was because of Kuva ladies breaking everything..

His 3 leech is super neglibible but still a nice movement skill

His 4 was his only good skill.. Now with the nerf to 12.5 to 20 E/Second you just made the skill unusable, (sorry but 5E/S as base + increased cost will be so stupid) but there are still frames that nuke better than Him Mesa, Gara just to name these twos with less Energy used...

So as it is .. It is a frame like Khora, that I will not use frequently. I had ton of fun before the nerf, but I wasnt doing the forget playstyle. I was using 2 a lot ..3 to move 4 to kill ton of enemeis and getting out of 4 for super tough enemies.. 

I dont know who is playing the game in your balance team, but this is really disheartening to see that

EDIT : I will be honest. You just made an OK frame into a not good frame. What you need to not forget is that is only ability that was useful in sortir 2-3, flood level content was his "boosted" 4 ..  Stop balancing ability for low level content.. there is no poiint. You did the same mistake with Ember 4..  And again there are frame that nukes more easily with better efficiency... What is the point of using a frame even if the concept is super cool

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by MunsuLight

[Emperrier]

I get that his 4 isn't the most engaging ability but maybe the solution isn't making it more expensive so nobody uses it, but making it more engaging like the click mode makes him hold his hand out and aim the lasers like a gun. Or remake the rest of his kit to be usable so he's not just the laserframe.

[Peter]

17 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Well, except that Revenant's kit seems to encourage killing the Thralls. Thralls are not supposed to be Revenat's buddies, he is a vampire. He takes them under his control so he can murder them. Nyx is the frame that makes AI buddies.

I do not remember vampires spinning as they release adaptive damage lights through their fingers.

Skill 1 enchants enemies with the essence of a sentient making them allies for a short time, where did you see that they are not allies?

This change that I propose is good to make an alternative build, currently Revenant does not have an alternative build other than focusing on 4 which by the way is a lazy build, not everyone wants to be seated while Revenant does it all alone.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Peter

[ConsumerJTC]

Basically a repost from reddit, though this would amplify his survivability and overall fun significantly.

A Simple yet informative bandaid for Revenant based on his recent changes

 

Enthrall

• Have enthralment spread on death like Saryns spores so that we consistently have 7 thralls to use our abilities on and so having them killed by team mates renders it still being useful for us.

Mesmer Skin

• Have it feed Mesmer Skin by 1 charge for every thrall killed instead of granting over shields, which are useless behind Mesmer Skin)

• Quicker cast time

Reave

• Add actual base damage along side its current scalable damage.

• Feed Mesmer Skin by 1 charge for every thrall hit rather than meaningless health/shield regeneration.

• Less Energy on cast and quicker casts without Danse Macabre.

Danse Macabre

• Have it feed Mesmer Skin by 1 charge for every thrall killed instead of granting overshields, which are useless Behind Mesmer Skin.

• Have it deal true damage like hydroids tentacles alongside elementals to make up for its energy increase.

Passive

  -  At least link it to Mesmer skin since that shield value is not gonna change as soon as Mesmer skin is on.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ConsumerJTC

[Salokniir]

Dance Macabre: I was loving the skill so far,but then it got nerfed already...why????

Why so much warframes meant to be "dps" is nerfed while mesa is still untouchable??????

I played this game for more than 4 years now and i just love it,but i cant stand anymore,even ember got her range reduced with the excuse she could kill enemies from far away(in low lvl missions) but mesa do that in all missions and i never have seen a nerf on her,she even got buffed with her peacemaker's augment...

Now its time for the revenant to be the nerfed one... Whats the point in giving us a warframe with dmg so? why not only release support type warframes to serve the mesas and saryns???

Also sorry if im being rude or anything,i dont lie when i say i love this game and also admire a lot the atention DE have with us,but see this along the years is starting to get over me... I am tired of entering a mission with my old "dps" loves and be forced to sit coz a mesa is one-shooting everyting in the map...

[DrBorris]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

I do not remember vampires spinning as they release adaptive damage lights through their fingers.

Skill 1 enchants enemies with the essence of a sentient making them allies for a short time, where did you see that they are not allies?

This change that I propose is good to make an alternative build, currently Revenant does not have an alternative build other than focusing on 4 which by the way is a lazy build, not everyone wants to be seated while Revenant does it all alone.

Okay, let's agree to disagree on Revenant's theme (DE never sticks with one "theme". He is an Eidolon Vampire), but you are missing the bigger issue... your suggestion would change absolutely nothing. I am not trying to be rude, but giving enemies effectively a 2.5x damage multiplier is not going to change that enemies can't kill enemies. Go make a max power strength Nekros (Shadows get a 2x multiplier to damage at base, increases with mods) and tell me how much of an impact your Shadow's DPS makes.

 

The health and damage scaling formulas for enemies are wildly different. A level 50 Bombard has 113,000 effective health. That same level 50 Bombard would barely destroy all of Revenant's shields (1665). Do you see the problem? Enemies just don't deal enough damage that, without some crazy damage multipliers, they will never be effective at killing. And that's just the math, have you seen the AI in this game? Watching my Thralls just try to damage enemies enough to spread is painful, I can't imagine wanting them to kill.

 

So cool, let's say your suggestion goes through, what would change? Unfortunately, nothing. Maybe a few status procs, but mostly nothing.

But let's say, hypothetically, that Thralls actually were decent at killing. Then what? How does this meld with the rest of his kit? Half of the mechanics on Enthrall are for what happens when an enemy dies and DE did not give him an AoE DPS for nothing. Don't say it is "lazy" to use his 4, DE gave him the ability for a reason, they even added synergies to encourage you to kill your Thralls. Are you just supposed to not use your 4 now to keep your DPS buddies alive? How is this less "lazy" than using Danse Macabre?

[Frostyinferno]

6 minutes ago, Salokniir said:

Dance Macabre: I was loving the skill so far,but then it got nerfed already...why????

Why so much warframes meant to be "dps" is nerfed while mesa is still untouchable??????

I played this game for more than 4 years now and i just love it,but i cant stand anymore,even ember got her range reduced with the excuse she could kill enemies from far away(in low lvl missions) but mesa do that in all missions and i never have seen a nerf on her,she even got buffed with her peacemaker's augment...

Now its time for the revenant to be the nerfed one... Whats the point in giving us a warframe with dmg so? why not only release support type warframes to serve the mesas and saryns???

Also sorry if im being rude or anything,i dont lie when i say i love this game and also admire a lot the atention DE have with us,but see this along the years is starting to get over me... I am tired of entering a mission with my old "dps" loves and be forced to sit coz a mesa is one-shooting everyting in the map...

I agree with this. Mesa is absolutely ridiculous and yet Revenant, who isn't even as strong as her, gets nerfed. Why? 

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Okay, let's agree to disagree on Revenant's theme (DE never sticks with one "theme". He is an Eidolon Vampire), but you are missing the bigger issue... your suggestion would change absolutely nothing. I am not trying to be rude, but giving enemies effectively a 2.5x damage multiplier is not going to change that enemies can't kill enemies. Go make a max power strength Nekros (Shadows get a 2x multiplier to damage at base, increases with mods) and tell me how much of an impact your Shadow's DPS makes.

 

The health and damage scaling formulas for enemies are wildly different. A level 50 Bombard has 113,000 effective health. That same level 50 Bombard would barely destroy all of Revenant's shields (1665). Do you see the problem? Enemies just don't deal enough damage that, without some crazy damage multipliers, they will never be effective at killing. And that's just the math, have you seen the AI in this game? Watching my Thralls just try to damage enemies enough to spread is painful, I can't imagine wanting them to kill.

 

So cool, let's say your suggestion goes through, what would change? Unfortunately, nothing. Maybe a few status procs, but mostly nothing.

But let's say, hypothetically, that Thralls actually were decent at killing. Then what? How does this meld with the rest of his kit? Half of the mechanics on Enthrall are for what happens when an enemy dies and DE did not give him an AoE DPS for nothing. Don't say it is "lazy" to use his 4, DE gave him the ability for a reason, they even added synergies to encourage you to kill your Thralls. Are you just supposed to not use your 4 now to keep your DPS buddies alive? How is this less "lazy" than using Danse Macabre?

It makes less sense even if they have that pillar of fire when they die, and as main Nyx I can say that a Heavy Gunner can kill very well mobs 150+

Edit: and you were not rude, we're just trying to improve the Revenant.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Peter

[Wattnis]

I don't know if someone has already asked this, but would it be possible that Revenant's enthrall and even Nyx's mind control, make the target a friendly like a specter removing them from the current wave of enemies roster giving both frames better control over their impact on wave progression. When the timer runs out the enthralled allies perish, or if they lose all health. This gives Revenant a chance to use his bonuses and fixes the Nyx problem of invulnerable foe.

With Revenant he could still kill them himself to gain the benefits, but then... Would it mean a new classification for enthralled foes turned allies so you avoid killing specters...? I don't know. An alternate would be make his abilities have bonuses for the number of enthralled instead of gaining bonuses for kills.  Or even make the bonuses proc, but they don't damage the enthralled. Although that might be exploitable with specters too... 

Despite the short time thralls are alive, I really have enjoyed my time playing Revenant so far. Keep making him more Eidolon-y, that new reave is much nicer.

 

And keep being awesome!~

Much love~

[Buttaface]

49 minutes ago, Azvalk said:

We don't want a Godframe.
Godframe always end up being wildly nerve.
Let's be reasonable ..

One day when you get further along in the game, you will find there are many single button press, highly energy efficient, long range OP skills in the game far more "godly" than Revenant's 4. If you are far along enough to have Peacemaker crutch, Saryn crutch, Volt crutch or Equinox crutch, well the above is a truly sad statement of game awareness.

[MixtheBlender]

Aside from that Danse Macabre is now costing a bit too much energy by default, which I agree, there's few things I would like to talk about.

Mesmer Skin: This ability feels pretty good in general, but I feel it needs to be able to recast when charges run low.

Reave: The leech effect just feel like nonexistent. The cost of spending 75 energy by default make it basically just point less if I were to use it as a movement ability.

Now the most important thing about Revenant is his Enthrall. For those of you that want Thralls to be invulnerable to friendly fire and unable to be killed...

Listen carefully, what happen in the future is all gonna be YOUR fault. If DE really makes thralls invulnerable to any damage, prepare to be hated by everyone like we hate Nyx now. Mind control is what you want on thralls? If that happens you will see 7 thralls laugh at you and your teammates while wave count number stuck for the duration just like when Nyx forget to turn off mind control.

I saw a different approach where the person suggest that instead of making thralls unable to be kill by friendly fire, they are able to be killed by the Revenant owner. That won't work. I'm not gonna bother with that burden if those are my thralls. Thralls are not my dps pals. They are my shields and distraction to the enemies, so that I won't be the target. I really don't care what happens to them. When they died, they served their purpose. When thrall get killed by teammates the second you make them simply means you don't need thralls at that moment.

As for the feedback and suggestion of the Enthrall: 

7 active thralls feels much better for enemy distraction for sure, but I could use more. The ability itself is still too slow to cast while affecting only one target. It should instead be a wave of energy that affects multiple targets (3 feels like a good spot) similar to how Limbo's banish work.

Many people seemed to ignore thrall's death effect, which I think is why they keep demanding thrall to not get killed.

Well, the pillar is indeed very underwhelming and often useless. You can't just expect enemy to magically go touch the pillar or can you? 

How about making pillar able to grab enemies and trap them in there unable to come out like what happened to the Warden in story?

How about making the pillar send out homing energy missiles? Or make the pillar do tiny danse macabre for its duration?

Anything would be better than it's current state tbh.

 

[peterc3]

The Thralls are there to distract and die. They aren't there to deal much damage except to spread the affliction.

[Azvalk]

il y a 9 minutes, Buttaface a dit :

One day when you get further along in the game, you will find there are many single button press, highly energy efficient, long range OP skills in the game far more "godly" than Revenant's 4. If you are far along enough to have Peacemaker crutch, Saryn crutch, Volt crutch or Equinox crutch, well the above is a truly sad statement of game awareness. 

Lol '-'
I'm advanced, thanks..
I know there is all of.. that, already in the game.
and precisely, I don't want that for Revenant.
In terms of damage and survivability I find him perfect in his current state.
There is no reason to complain about an increase in the cost of his 4, and no reason to complain about "oh no, no longer possible to make a proper build with max power T.T " ..
Since I have him, I am still never dead..
except when I killed myself with the secondary fire of phantasma 😛

[Rankii]

Just now, Azvalk said:

Lol '-'
I'm advanced, thanks..
I know there is all of.. that, already in the game.
and precisely, I don't want that for Revenant.
In terms of damage and survivability I find him perfect in his current state.
There is no reason to complain about an increase in the cost of his 4, and no reason to complain about "oh no, no longer possible to make a proper build with max power T.T " ..
Since I have him, I am still never dead..
except when I killed myself with the secondary fire of phantasma 😛

"and precisely, I don't want that for Revenant"

He doesn't have it. He was a Grade-C frame before and now he's worse.

[RIFTMAGE]

Passive

Range can be inceased.

Enthrall 

Thrall number is good enough. But thralls shouldnt be killed by other players. Because these situtation makes Enthrall ability far away from crowd control.

Mesmer Skin

It's acceptible but maybe initial charge number can be increased to 8. It will gives Revenant more survivability.

Reave 

Especially after last update Reave ability should have energy leech property(maybe like nidus). Or it can restore energy only from thralls. This is definitely necessary. Because for now these ability properties limit Revenant's builds and potential.(3rd ability are used only with press 4 and win build. This is so boring and useless.)

Danse Macabre

It's good.

It's a sentient themed eidolon warframe. Revenant should show eidolon's great power. But for now we're trying to survive. Thank you anyway. 🙂

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by RIFTMAGE

[Anakincho]

I REALLY hate the new nerf to his 4. It's way too costly now and it feels like even with all the duration mods in my collection it still way too costly. And it was the only good thing about he frame. Even pre-nerf I still thought that the energy/s is way too high since it would consume all your current energy to clear a room/group.

It's a real shame since I think the Revenant has one of the coolest designs in the entire game. It would be a shame if he suffered the same fate as Khora. An OK frame that you would use for the cool factor turned into a sub-par gimmick that is out-classed by almost anything.