Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[Dishonored]

Infinite loading screen are cool but
Hey atleast warframe still have the "Host Migration"

[Kaotyke]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fireworker77 said:

And the enemies in Anthem don't even have a level, we don't even know how they scale yet or if they scale at all.

No levels in the traditional sense, but only in difficulty scales.

Same as selecting Easy/Normal/Hard/Very Hard/Dante Must Die in other games: Increased enemy damage output, HP and (if what the devs said is true) better AI tactics.

The last one is particually important, since they dont have levels and seemly static stats on the weapons, the enemies will have time to apply those tactics. Such thing is very rare in Warframe because of its horde genre and the sheer power of the players.

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

You mean what Anthem learned from Warframe, Destiny and such games, right? I do like Anthem and its premise, it shows that EA/Bioware paid attention to it's competitors and applied some of the best stuff in one game. Just two thoughts though:

1. Every game must have something to make it different, to attract customers. Anthem seems great and all but let's not forget it's a different game than Warframe. Warframe is a Free to Play game while Anthem is a fully paid game. That means I can tolerate more mistakes and grind from Warframe. And that means I expect Anthem to be more fullfilling without having to grind like I do in Warframe. This is just the start, and it could go deeper.
2. Let's not forget that it's still an EA/Bioware game. Yes, it does look good, yes they may have learned from their mistake. But let's also not forget about the "players" on the field, meaning shareholders who understand squat about gaming, that want instant billionary profit and came in just for that purpose. It may not be now but I'm afraid that they see all these players running to this "DE-style" move and see the opportunity to make some money and then tell Bioware to begin a different monetization plan. Do I personally believe this? Eh low chance the way I see it. As investors they should see now what happens when you push the rope too far, and they shouldn't want to tarnish EA's names further trought the mud. I think they'll leave the predatory tactics down for some years now, meaning Anthem seems safe for now.

Other than that it's all. I also think it's good to have some other competitor than Destiny (and other smaller ones) to see if Warframe strives even more for perfection.

[DerGreif2]

The Scaling/Reward system is pretty nice. THAT should be implemented!

[Ryusuta]

Whatever good qualities Anthem might have, it's exclusively on Origin, so it needs to burn.

[Helch0rn]

2 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

No, what DE could learn from Anthem is the flight system and try to apply it to our Archwings. It would make them so much more appealing and easy to use.

Altho I wouldn't mind being able to change textures/materials on the WF, but that would be so much work given how many frames we have.

the flight system, especially under water, was terrible and essentially felt like my mouse is trying to emulate a joysrick that tries to emulate a mouse.

[Genesix6]

36 minutes ago, HEA-Devazone said:

Infinite loading screen are cool but
Hey atleast warframe still have the "Host Migration"

At least in Warframe you can lost rewards like legendary core because of host migration.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the only thing Warframe could learn from Anthem right now is how to keep players in an infinite loading screen.. Anthem is it's own thing entirely, though I'm sure little things like facts aren't going to stop it being compared to warframe at every possible turn... already prepared myself for the inevitable avalanche of "Warframe vs Anthem" threads.

the only changes I think the movement system needs are a couple of tweaks to animations of existing moves,; DE said ages ago they would work on turning the silly wall-hopping into an actual wall-run the way it was before, the issue being that it didn't quite mesh with the uneven walls of some tiles, but they said they'll fix it. the other thing is the archwing flight system; since we're getting railjack, we don't need to scream "muh anthem flight iz bettuh" at DE since Archwing is getting looked at for the Railjack update. DE can't seem to get it right, but it's not for lack of trying, and if they have to copy/paste a few of Anthem's system into warframe to make Archwing enjoyable, I'd be okay with that (probably gonna wind up playing both games anyway.)

before we all start comparing apples and oranges, remember: anthem is a TOTALLY different game. the only major similarity is the idea of running around in a battle-suit shooting things; everything else is different.

 

 

[(PSN)Lun-Sei]

Hey, you know the one and only thing that Warframe can and should learn from Anthem?

The fact that you play as an adult guy INSIDE the exosuit, not as an annoying emo brat sitting safely in the base.

Stakes seem low to me when I know my real character is not there in battle anymore than I am. The developers were quite obviously trying to make some kind of meta joke about gaming, but..... it really didn't work at all. Perhaps because it was a reveal that came waaayyyy too late in development (we're talking years later); perhaps because they made sure to make the Tenno look as annoying as possible, making me feel as if this was a game for tweens.

In Anthem, you know right off the bat you're inside that suit. I'm gonna play a cute female character inside the biggest, manliest looking exosuit.

 

 

[brucifer1]

Where to start.....flight done well is one, I certainly wish arc wing was done more like anthem. Another is adjustable difficulty settings vice half the community whining for more challenge and the other half screaming to nerf the enemies. Over all my wife and I vastly enjoyed anthem more and we both have close to 3k hours in Warframe, but a lot of that is just because we enjoy the core game play mechanics more and there are many things Warframe can not change at this point, as they are core parts of the game now.( the operator, the progression system ect.). Just admitting I like Anthem in a Warframe forum will unleash a ton of hate but it's a matter of taste and different people will prefer different things. Considering how video games work there will be droughts in all games between content drops so having multiple games keeps you busy while the devs work on the next big DLC. While Steve has stated that they look at other games and adapt ideas they think will work well, Warframe has a solid fan base and 6 years of longevity, they have a well plotted course for this year and should stick to their own path without trying to take too much from anyone else.

[kuchn]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Lun-Sei said:

The fact that you play as an adult guy INSIDE the exosuit, not as an annoying emo brat sitting safely in the base

word

[(PSN)Fireworker77]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Kaotyke:

No levels in the traditional sense, but only in difficulty scales.

Same as selecting Easy/Normal/Hard/Very Hard/Dante Must Die in other games: Increased enemy damage output, HP and (if what the devs said is true) better AI tactics.

The last one is particually important, since they dont have levels and seemly static stats on the weapons, the enemies will have time to apply those tactics. Such thing is very rare in Warframe because of its horde genre and the sheer power of the players.

 

The AI is definitly something special here. Naturally you can't test it that good in a demo but sometimes (especially human enemies) tried to outflank me, get higher grounds or use multiple basic tactics to get me away from cover. (Deploying explosives that bypass my shielding, rush into my shields into close combat, snipers trying to jetpack to higher ground behind me, forming smaller squads and even retreat to better cover.)

The problem here is, you have to let them play that out. If WF really has something to learn it would be better coordinated attacks and squads like the G3 with some sense of "combat movement". And here is also the big problem:

Why use tactics when everything gets shredded in mere seconds. Maybe the WF AI is also very good but we never see that because they never live long enough to actually use tactics. (I have often seen minor Corpus units trying to stay closer to "Ice Eximus" or Nullifier Fields, maybe to be better protected. But in the End it doens't make any difference in WF.

Edited January 29, 2019 by (PS4)Fireworker77
Writing

[SneakyErvin]

Combo systems have been done to death already. I think the only upcoming game with an interesting use of it is Camelot Unchained, if they are still to use it. We have a decent version of it in WF already. I guess one thing they could add is something like if you shoot at a burning target with cold and you proc your status it will come out as blast instead of a cold proc. However this system wouldnt make everyone happy because some people prefer cold over blast in such a case. I personally hate blast due to how it changes finisher damage etc.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Fireworker77 said:

The AI is definitly something special here. Naturally you can't test it that good in a demo but sometimes (especially human enemies) tried to outflank me, get higher grounds or use multiple basic tactics to get me away from cover. (Deploying explosives that bypass my shielding, rush into my shields into close combat, snipers trying to jetpack to higher ground behind me, forming smaller squads and even retreat to better cover.)

The problem here is, you have to let them play that out. If WF really has something to learn it would be better coordinated attacks and squads like the G3 with some sense of "combat movement". And here is also the big problem:

Why use tactics when everything gets shredded in mere seconds. Maybe the WF AI is also very goog but we never see that because they never live long enough to actually use tactics. (I have often seen minor Corpus units trying to stay closer to "Ice Eximus" or Nullifier Fields, maybe to be better protected. But in the End it doens't make any difference in WF.

One thing to consider though. How long will that "new car smell" last in Anthem. It is a demo that is playable, how much insta gib of enemies will there be at end-game? I've played other games with tactical enemies, but at some point you'll just faceroll them in seconds aswell, removing the whole point of the advanced A.I.

Everything in every game always seems far slower and better in the starting hours. I played Inquisitor Martyr for a while, a "tactical" arpg with cover mechanics and everything. It was really cool for the first few hours until you got a set of decent equipment. After than it was the same old hack 'n slash as D3 or PoE, mowing down hordes of enemies to the left and right. I remember the first few elite "bosses" I faced. They gave me total hell. Later on with better gear, slightly more skill point investments and on a higher difficulty the same mobs melted in 2 seconds. The early game experience rarely lasts.

[WhiteMarker]

What's with all these threads about Anthem?
Warframe runs for quite some years now and it is going strong. It gains more and more players.
Do we really need to learn something from a game that is overhyped and not even fully released yet?
If Warframe would do poorly, I would understand this kind of thread. But the game is clearly doing fine.

[(PSN)Fireworker77]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

One thing to consider though. How long will that "new car smell" last in Anthem. It is a demo that is playable, how much insta gib of enemies will there be at end-game? I've played other games with tactical enemies, but at some point you'll just faceroll them in seconds aswell, removing the whole point of the advanced A.I.

Everything in every game always seems far slower and better in the starting hours. I played Inquisitor Martyr for a while, a "tactical" arpg with cover mechanics and everything. It was really cool for the first few hours until you got a set of decent equipment. After than it was the same old hack 'n slash as D3 or PoE, mowing down hordes of enemies to the left and right. I remember the first few elite "bosses" I faced. They gave me total hell. Later on with better gear, slightly more skill point investments and on a higher difficulty the same mobs melted in 2 seconds. The early game experience rarely lasts.

Thats what I meant with " Naturally you can't test it that good in a demo".

I hope this game scales "better" than WF because I don't want another mindless powercreep. We have to wait until it's released, I also didn't like the decision to start you at level 10 in the demo, and just throwing you in without any sense of why you are doing anything.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

All I hope is De has learned that they can now make a Bursa-Based Warframe so we can have our own Anthem Colossus or (Armored Core) Mech running around with and with a big OP Galatine Prime... 

Edited January 29, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Tsukinoki]

9 hours ago, _Urakaze_ said:

Seeing the VIP Demo, well the working portion anyway, really have some good mechanics/visuals that Warframe could take reference from.

1. Combo system

I know we have similar things in the form of combined elemental damage types. We can add more depth to it. In addition, this will be a good chance to buff some underperforming status effects/damage types. To illustrate my idea, I will use heat and magnetic as example

fire proc burns enemy and after 3 seconds, soften the armor and enemy armor is reduced by 50% for the duration of the heat proc. If magnetic proc is applied to enemy while the armor is soften, 50% of armor is stripped permanently.

the possibilities are infinite.

Seems like way, way too much work for little to no pay off.

With the example you gave: When would that ever be useful?  When would an enemy survive 3 seconds under a heat proc?  And why would you ever be using magnetic?
instead of jumping through all the hoops you put up I'll just equip corrosive damage and do the exact same thing...just faster and much easier since I can proc a lot of corrosive in the time it takes you to do one heat+magnetic trick.  Not that the enemy will last long enough for you to do it.

Thing with combined elements like this is:
A) They need a completely unique effect
B) They need to be worth coming out
C) They can't take a lot longer to pull off then it would take to simply kill the enemy some other way.
And your suggestion fails at all 3 points, as would pretty much anything DE could try to implement because the simple fact is that no enemies will ever last long enough to even try to jump through the hoops needed to pull off an effect.

Another problem with this suggestion is that its pure RNG, and way more than normal procs.
Now you have to hope you can proc the first element, fire, and then after 3 seconds hope that you can proc magnetic...good luck in setting that up in any reliable fashion...

4 hours ago, _Urakaze_ said:

as for the elemental combos, I'm suggesting adding interactions between 2 elements, not trying to create more compound elements. The one example I mentioned might not be a good one, but I'm sure the devs can think of balanced and interesting combos that make the underpowered elements more useful(heat, magnetic, etc)

Except that what you're suggesting is just adding more compound elements.
In your case the Heat+Magnetic is a new compound element that takes 3 seconds to work and does a corrosive proc...when we already have corrosive that can be used so, so much easier than your idea.
Especially because the things that you'll be using heat and magnetic on generally don't have armor to begin with...and trying to bring those elements against the grineer would nerf your damage output so much that even being able to strip the armor off of one enemy after 3 seconds would never be worth bringing compared to just having a corrosive and a radiation weapon ready that can most likely kill a dozen enemies in the same 3 seconds.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Tsukinoki

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

So basically re-write the entire customisation, damage and movement aspect of the game then?  Yeah, that's gonna happen.

We've been waiting on melee 3.0 for god knows how long, let's not rewrite the whole game or we might never get any new content ever.

And please, for the love of anything you hold dear, don't let this be the start of an endless stream of forum posts on what WF can learn from Anthem.

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 hours ago, _Urakaze_ said:

 

1.We could definitely use some iteration on the more lackluster versions here.

The nice thing about a direct competitor is that it tends to raise the quality level of everyone in order to remain competitive though.

2. Definitely.

3. Eh, Thematically it makes sense.

...I don't know how practical it is here though.

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

however, it's imperative that such a thing doesn't actually change the timing of any Movement and doesn't impact your uh... capability to use the Mobility in the game.
which seems like it'll be very restricted in what it could possibly be, or just pointless potentially if alternative Animations have to be cut in order to not impact Player Mobility.

↑ That's why...

For example, I liked the Colossus....

• I did not enjoy trying to keep pace with the faster javelins (which was all of them)
• I did not enjoy the ability to get stunlocked to death because he wasn't quite fast enough to get out of freeze patches under heavy fire.

...Sometimes theme can get in the way if it's not fully accounted for. 

 

It felt like ME multiplayer to me (which is good as I like ME multiplayer) but the game has base design concerns that really won't bare themselves until the game has a bit of age on it.

• What is the live service cadence for stories and events going to be?
• How many maps are there at launch?
• How much story is the game shipping with?
• How much will new chapters cost?

 

Given that Anthem is, for all intents and purposes, my dream mecha online game realized I should be all for the purchase.

...However, after the Demo, I am not.

There are just too many questions that the Demo did not address for me while also creating new questions I would never have given though to in the first place.

• Instances where I couldn't log out and had to exit the game causing me to lose the stuff I earned.
• Instances where server instability caused me to lose stuff I earned.
• Magically changing buff notations between plays on stuff I did pick up.
• Inventory limitations
• The fact that solo is, for all intents and purposes, off the table but the Javelins travel at different speeds.
• The fact that communication is VoIP only
• The fact that drops appears to be attuned to the javelins in your group...even if you got the kill (which means I can get a rare for a javelin I am not on or don't have and levels seem to come rather slowly)
• What's the cash shop look like? Will an attractive skin be $100 or blind luck to acquire? Sounds crazy but that's exactly the type of scenario cosmetics in SWTOR enjoyed...I wish I was joking.  

Not to mention years of lackluster to no content at all (with a sub) only to be followed by a teensy bit of content and back to no content for more months.

...I have twice seen their live team hype the heck out of content-for months- that had 40 minutes or less of actual content within it.

So, for me, what should have been a  Day One Buy is actually cause for questions and concerns.

But not just for me...I had 4 friends excited to play that game and all of them are hesitant now after that Demo. 

[Gabbynaru]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lun-Sei said:

The fact that you play as an adult guy INSIDE the exosuit, not as an annoying emo brat sitting safely in the base.

It makes more freakin' sense to control an exosuit from a distance than it does to control it on site. Exosuits are expandable, troops are not so much. One would rather lose mass produced exosuits rather than lose the exosuits and the soldiers in them. Soldiers don't exactly grow on trees. So I dunno what you're talking about, maybe Anthem should improve their warfare tactics.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Given who it's published by and their track record, plus the many issues with Anthem raised in previous posts, I won't even think of buying this for 6 months.  Let's see how the monetization side pans out, actual gameplay and re-playability.  

[Myscho]

I want Javelin flying movement for Archwing

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, Myscho said:

I want Javelin flying movement for Archwing

Is that the aerial hover portion?... Or the slow flight, sluggish turns and frequent overheats part?

[brucifer1]

12 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

It makes more freakin' sense to control an exosuit from a distance than it does to control it on site. Exosuits are expandable, troops are not so much. One would rather lose mass produced exosuits rather than lose the exosuits and the soldiers in them. Soldiers don't exactly grow on trees. So I dunno what you're talking about, maybe Anthem should improve their warfare tactics.

Which is why Warframes which were supposedly designed to kill Sentients in the old war require you to exit your warframe and fight as the operator to damage an Eidelon. At least Anthem doesn't require you to jump out of your Javelin to fight or collect Kuva