Goodbye to Warframe

[MBaldelli]

We've all heard it sometime in our lives -- either personally or seen in movies and television -- the infamous break up line that invariably starts with the sentence, "We're done.  I want nothing more to do with you.  No it's not you, it's me…"  Except in this instance, it's all you, DE.  So all you armchair analysts, talking heads and anyone that doesn't like the thought of an opinion contrary to yours have at it…  Tear this apart to your heart's content with the illusion that you've done your good deed for defending the product that is Warframe.  I'll already be gone. 

Hard to imagine I had been with the game for almost six years.  That in human terms is usually a long-term relationship without marriage.  Hell, in my case it was longer than the last psycho-ex I had been living with that practically destroyed who I was.  But I digress, we're not here to sit on a couch and discuss my personal life. 

There have been several mitigating factors for this decision that I would like to put to pixels that caused me to make this decision.

1. DE's head in the sand attitude to the ever present Moderator Abuses that have been present for at least 4 years.
2. DE's lack of adult attitudes toward any sort of criticisms thrown at them from partners and in recent events resorting to ad hominems and bullying tactics by using the player base to attack such criticisms.  This is something I would expect from a Russian company like Gaijin Entertainment, not from a Canadian company like DE. 
3. DE's attempt to put the genie back into the bottle for the power creep that has been ignored and approved by DE for years.  And pussyfooting around with it, given the change of how they simply removed things 6 years ago when it was simply to OP.  (Yeah, I still have hard feelings for the original OP Snipetron blueprint removed from my inventory with a note in the update about it and later replaced by a watered down version of the sniper). 
4. What I would like to call the JJ Abrams' approach to entertaining content:  adding a whole lot of flash, yet leaving a whole lot of clapped out, broken and half-worked content littered on the floor of the game. 
5. DE's (not so) recent habit of unfulfilled promises and not listening to the player base.  Quite the change when I joined the game 6 years ago and they were listening too much to the player base back then.
6. The complete and utter bureaucracy of DE's Help Desk to solving a problem that should have from the Helpdesk to DE and not some sort of demented run around and completely failing the point of "One Stop Shop".  As shown here (names removed to avoid shaming). 

Looking at this laundry you'd think I was talking about a Triple A Developer (we know the names, no need to beat that dead horse again) that has released yet another lackluster and poorly designed game, and certainly not an Indie company.  But I'm beginning to wonder whether the partnership  might in fact be a bigger contributing factor than I realized, given I've had some experience with them and Cryptic and look how those games have turned out.   

I think what I find the most surprising is that in this current world climate, politicians and executives seem more than willing to fall on their sword and commit career suicide and resign from a position of authority that has demonstrated a complete lack of social vigilance.  Yet in this situation, nothing has been done about the issue -- either from the source of the problem that caused it (yeah, no names mentioned because I don't need an unprecedented amount of bullying from a company or the gaggle of players to the game) let alone from the company that has allowed this situation to propagate as long as it has. 

As an activist and a lobbyist, this is the sort of thing that would be causing quite a bit of boycotting and shield clattering to get the problem fixed; but I think the reason why this isn't happening has to do with the fact that people work on the illusion that the developer listens to the player base and has made them a darling in their eyes.  That and the fact that until it affects a greater whole of the player base, it can certainly be swept under the rug, can't it? 

Low and behold sweeping things under the rug seems to be the modus operandi in this environment.  I mean it's been more than a month since this moderator abuse has been seriously thrust into the light (having been going on for more than 4 years) and all we've seen from DE has been something akin to lock-stepping in twitter attempting to bully and shame the messenger instead of handling the situation contained in the message.

It's coming up on a month for the melee changes have hit and nothing has been done about any of the suggestions given to DE (again, it feels like if it's ignored people will blithely accept the game making decisions for us instead of making it so that we make those decisions).

Then there's the Vauban, Atlas, Wukong reworks that have been hinted at and promised only to be forgotten or swept under the rug. 

Or my personal favorite, a 10 week experiment in the new alert system (q.v., Nightwave) that is nothing more than a Skinner Box for veterans to see whether they'll continue to use it and not geared for the very people that should have been tested with…  Again, no improvements there either, they were all ignored because it's a 10-week experiment and players often forget when shown a shiny they covet (Umbra Forma). 

The simple fact is, this feels like a shell game…  bright and shiny things added to the game, all the while things already existing in the game, ignored, forgotten, thrown to the island of misfit toys, just to appease the public from starting a lynch mob against the game and the developers for the shallowness of the overall gaming experience. 

DE and Warframe, you try to come off as the well-meaning sod in a relationship, always promising something better in the future yet nothing seems to be working quite right in the present.  All the while never exactly fulfilling any of your promises because the code's getting to the saturation point of needing more fixes than new material. 

There's a list is out there..  I'm tired of adding to it and drawing attention to it.  All because I've learned, I'm a no one that's spent no more than $300 in the game.  I missed the opportunity to being a Founder because at the time I was unemployed (not that it matters really, it's been proven DE doesn't even listen to their founders or the design council anymore).   I am not some famous name that will draw attention to your game.  I'm just a player that's simply been here almost 6 years slogging out what little I can to assist an uncaring developer with their head in the sand living off the love of a blindly faithful player base that see this as a darling. 

So in closing, this is a break up with you DE and Warframe.  And in case you wonder why this relationship isn't working -- it's all you. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well, to each his own, and I do appreciate you made a mature topic on it, as should be. It's feedback nonetheless, and helps to see why a player gives up, if that's a common issue, and if something can be done about it, or even if it's worth it.

Much better than the saltier "ragequit" posts. Farewell my guy!

[Rydian]

1 - DE has not had their head in the sand.  They have made announcements and changes to the program recently.  The second video you linked is from last year.  The first one, despite being newer, is talking about older situations.  At least one of the people discussed in the first video is not a mod anymore, even before the video was made.  If you'd like to learn more, you can check the volunteers/programs dropdown on the main site to see the updated regulations/guidelines for moderators, and you can find the news announcements if you actually care enough to read about it.

3 - Power creep is becoming an issue with the game.  When we kill too fast, drop rates are lowered to compensate.  When we do too much damage, enemies are beefed up to compensate.  This leads to <1% drop rates and bosses with tank like The Wolf, and I don't find those things fun.  I really wish it was fixed, so I guess that's a personal opinion thing on if you're okay with it or not.

6 - I don't understand what you're talking about here.  There's way too much missing, even given the screenshot, to tell what's going on.  Could you clarify the situation?

[trunks013]

Sorry to hear that tenno

I do understand that some points needs to be worked on 

but brigning the " current world climate, politicians and executives" Kinda overwhelming dont you think ?

Well even if you are not a Founder or have spent a lot of money in the game . That does not mean you dont mean anything to the game. Playing it and making it a better place for the others is a huge part of it ^.^ 

Are you allright ? I mean it. Is there something wrong that makes all of those little things seems bigger than they are ?

I mean take a step back allright is "Vauban, Atlas, Wukong reworks" that much of a big deal ?

Some issues are there from the start but enough to make you leave. I know some are small and it can be the ammount of small things but its not what i can read.

Edited April 3, 2019 by trunks013

[peterc3]

16 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

So in closing, this is a break up with you DE and Warframe.  And in case you wonder why this relationship isn't working -- it's all you. 

This is a game, right? This isn't a relationship.

[trunks013]

3 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This is a game, right? This isn't a relationship.

Wait what? ;(

Rly ?

Edited April 3, 2019 by trunks013

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 minute ago, Rydian said:

When we kill too fast, drop rates are lowered to compensate.

Not that I disagree with most of your post but I find this humorous.  The shear volume of stuff a new player to mid level player has to farm is overwhelming.  

Lets say HYPOTHETICALLY you just want to do your daily tasks and sign out - no missions for fun, no relics, etc.  What do we have: Sorties, now nightwave, syndicate missions, little duck, eudico, konzu, the quills - that alone is hours of play time EVERY DAY if you kill as fast is possible. 

Now add to that other events be it anniversary stuff, the opticor vandal, ghouls, whatever.

Now add to that if you actually want to farm a few ducats, or some prime junk, or whatever.

Power creep is not a problem when the content (grind) creep outpaces it.  

Lets now add on an ESO or Arby a day to farm for those mods, or the ephemera or what have you... 30 minutes each for a single run.

Bite sized game play my a$$. 

Much of the above perhaps don't apply to those of us that already have every frame & weapon, all the mods etc - but we aren't the only players (although we often post like we're the only ones that matter).

And one other point re: killing to fast - you can bet your butt if I need to run some boring mission 100 times to get that 1% drop chance, i want to run it as fast as possible and get on with my life.

 

[Magicfingers]

i'll never understand why people feel the need to post these "i'm quitting warframe" threads. nobody cares!!! if you're gonna quit the game, just quit the game. do they really think that if they quit the game and make a post about it, it's gonna make everyone else quit the game?

[Sannidor]

I assume you will bother to read replies so bye and have no regrets.

Considering your points, your expectations are way too high for DE current standards and you picked the best moment to leave.

The game is obviously disintegrating but it may be too bothersome for you to witness what will be assembled from current broken pieces.

Personally I only enjoy few elements of the game and most post 2016 additions are not appealing.

Lucky for me, I enjoy Warframe enough to keep me entertained despite a lot of awful mechanics piling, toxic community and childish developers.

Good luck and have fun with better games! 

[Teshin_Dax]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb MBaldelli:

Or my personal favorite, a 10 week experiment in the new alert system (q.v., Nightwave) that is nothing more than a Skinner Box for veterans to see whether they'll continue to use it and not geared for the very people that should have been tested with…  Again, no improvements there either, they were all ignored because it's a 10-week experiment and players often forget when shown a shiny they covet (Umbra Forma). 

 

The simple fact is, this feels like a shell game…  bright and shiny things added to the game, all the while things already existing in the game, ignored, forgotten, thrown to the island of misfit toys, just to appease the public from starting a lynch mob against the game and the developers for the shallowness of the overall gaming experience. 

 

There's a list is out there..  I'm tired of adding to it and drawing attention to it.  All because I've learned, I'm a no one that's spent no more than $300 in the game.  I missed the opportunity to being a Founder because at the time I was unemployed (not that it matters really, it's been proven DE doesn't even listen to their founders or the design council anymore).   I am not some famous name that will draw attention to your game.  I'm just a player that's simply been here almost 6 years slogging out what little I can to assist an uncaring developer with their head in the sand living off the love of a blindly faithful player base that see this as a darling. 

 

yes and yes

Edited April 3, 2019 by Teshin_Dax

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

4 minutes ago, Magicfingers said:

i'll never understand why people feel the need to post these "i'm quitting warframe" threads. nobody cares!!! if you're gonna quit the game, just quit the game. do they really think that if they quit the game and make a post about it, it's gonna make everyone else quit the game?

perhaps they hope that their public missive will prompt a change from DE. 😂

[SneakyErvin]

1. Has been and will be handled by DE. Also many of the "abuses" are simply people complaining because they filled chats etc. with inappropriate crap. Same goes for the forums.

2. Some of those "partners" have been straight up rude and done their videos/streams only for the intent of click-baiting. That is as low as it gets and they deserve everything they are recieving when it comes to flak. They've been feeding on content draught gossips etc. Yes parts of it is true and viable, but there is no reason to exaggerate just to get more views. That is simply bad taste at its worst. A reason why I think DE should reconsider several of their partners.

3. You are playing a beta where things are bound for change. Everyone has been treated the same, not really a reason to quit or call out a company imo. #*!%, it is the nature of online games that the devs change what they want.

4. That you have a point about. But I cant really pinpoint any mode that is in a really bad spot. I even quite enjoyed farming for both Nidus and Harrow in their respective game modes. Which parts are you refering to?

5. I think they listen quite well to the playerbase, more so than many other companies. They just cant fullfill every wish and there are also things they should completely ignore.

6. Not really sure what you are getting at. I personally dont expect a f2p or b2p game for that matter to have anywhere near the support quality of a game I pay a sub for. And I'm quite sure their support desk is back logged by several trivial support requests. Some have been seen here on these forums where new players ask about the most trivial of things they want handled by support.

[notlamprey]

I agree with the general sentiment of the OP, and I have no illusions about the failings and blind spots in and around DE.

The difference is that I'm keeping a bit of distance between myself and the game (and its developers who occasionally say troubling things about fictional children), because I know that if I didn't I would end up in OP's shoes as well. Don't let Warframe be the only game you play, and make sure it occupies its proper place near the very bottom of your life priorities list.

Otherwise, a bad end result is unavoidable. I wish OP all the best.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

19 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I agree with the general sentiment of the OP, and I have no illusions about the failings and blind spots in and around DE.

The difference is that I'm keeping a bit of distance between myself and the game (and its developers who occasionally say troubling things about fictional children), because I know that if I didn't I would end up in OP's shoes as well. Don't let Warframe be the only game you play, and make sure it occupies its proper place near the very bottom of your life priorities list.

Otherwise, a bad end result is unavoidable. I wish OP all the best.

This is what I always say. Demanding Warframe to provide an infinite and lifetime amount of content and gameplay hours is straight-up impossible. Like with any other game, when you reach its end, or when there's nothing else to do, you either leave it (Single Players), or wait for new content (Sequels, DLC's, Expansions, etc.). Warframe is precisely the type of game you play for a while, it is intensive, it is grindy. But everyone eventually catches up with the content. And at that moment it's time to take a break and play something else, do something else, instead of taking the player's frustration derived from boredom in the game. Like fully blaming someone for their defects in a relationship when both parties involved are guilty.

Of course in this case I'm not particularly referring to OP, he's just stating an opinion and in a peacefull way. Data is still data. Feedback is still feedback, and he has a right to it no matter who agrees or not. What I do hate the most is those people who get fed up at *insert literally anything* and start snapping at the game for no apparent reason.

Because no one has a problem with relic drops until they've tried a radshare 5 times in a row and didn't get the desired reward. No one has a problem with farming ludicrous amounts of Kuva until the 46th roll comes and it's still not a godroll. The game is not perfect, sure, but for some reason everyone knows the rules and is fine with them, until they no longer suit their needs, of course. That's the point where the complaints begin, and very rarely before. Personal Frustration does not necessarily equal game flaws, even if they do exist.

And no, I'm not special. I'm saying this while fully aware that I'm subject to the same rules as everyone else.

Edited April 3, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[Rydian]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Not that I disagree with most of your post but I find this humorous.  The shear volume of stuff a new player to mid level player has to farm is overwhelming. 

The problem is that DE rarely gears things for new to mid level players nowadays.  They've been gearing things for what the high-end players are suited to handle, and hoping the base scaling is still weak enough for newbies to handle.

As an example of the differences that we can actually quantify in a post, look at Fortuna (being some recent big content).  It's situated on Venus, a planet with enemy levels that are 3-10 depending on the mission.  Venus is likely the second area new players will access, as it has the easier junction from Earth (since it only needs the tutorial done and some modding, opposed to another quest like the Mars junction needs).

Common crewmen that show up on Venus at levels 3-10 will have the following base stats.

This gives them about 218-374 effective HP according to the wiki's calculator.
This is something that I think is reasonable for new players to fight at the level they encounter it.

However if we look at Fortuna's enemies, the weakest type available range from levels 5-15 and are actually a buffed variety.

This gives them about 348-888 effective HP at the levels they're encountered at, which is definitely more than new players face elsewhere.

Is it insurmountable?  Of course not, players can grind elsewhere and then return for what Fortuna has to offer with no problem.
However it is definitely more than what many new players are able to handle at the point they first reach it.
Of course, note that when Fortuna was released, it was much worse and DE had to patch it to nerf the enemies... multiple times!

• 24.0.4: "Orb Vallis mission and Vox Solaris quest data showed that certain Terra enemy types were not on par with other Corpus enemies, causing an unintentional difficulty spike, especially noticed with lower level players."
• 24.2: "Venus Shield Ospreys the spawn Nullifier bubbles only spawn if the Orb Vallis Alert level is 3+ and if the enemy level is 20+."  So once again more dangerous enemies were having too much of an effect in lower level area.  (Some other changes were made as well.)

And after those nerfs, we still end up with enemies stronger than the area they're at... but at least they're approached for players who reach them now.

 

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

And one other point re: killing to fast - you can bet your butt if I need to run some boring mission 100 times to get that 1% drop chance, i want to run it as fast as possible and get on with my life.

My point was we have such low drop chances in part because we can do stuff so fast to begin with.  When DE plays along and lets us go faster and kill harder, things change to account for that.

[Cleopatranikea]

What I read I agree with most of the points but there are no infinite growing, content, gameplay etc. I have not seen any developer who could deliver what the playerbase wants and keep up on a high level of quality. Simply just not possible. Also the devs going on their way which is natural to any human beign who feel it have identity and original ideas. DE is an avarege developer team with a nice game idea which is based on the grind sadly. Itself if there would not be any other part of content would be plain bad idea and the game would not survive as long as long they are survived now.

The Beta is not an excuse to do things because they basically playing with your time and or money whatever effort you put into to have some fun. All in all this is a game and not everything is shiny and good and not all of us like all the part of the game because there will be things what we consider bad design and think we could do it better.

We are just consumers with passion for a game but in the end the developers the ones whom do final decisions like it or not. That is sad to see you are going because a long time loyal player lost again and the game needs loyal players. Hopefully one day when some stuff changed and the devs changing their policies we will see you again.

[Jfalz]

You'll be back.

[TheMightyBaloon]

Take the The out of TheWarframe and call it Warframe. 

 

But in all seriousness if it wasn't for Destiny's massive failure Warframe would have never gotten this big, which already had problems as OP said. It is another game dev with a great IP but a poor decision making team. 

[Jitsuryoku]

21 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

i'll never understand why people feel the need to post these "i'm quitting warframe" threads. nobody cares!!! if you're gonna quit the game, just quit the game. do they really think that if they quit the game and make a post about it, it's gonna make everyone else quit the game?

I'll never understand people claiming not to care about things they are complaining about. Clearly you cared enough to click on it.

Also, I do care. Those are the threads I look for after trying games and considering to commenting to it (before making huge purchases, starting grinding achievements for the sake of achievements etc.) It takes a long time to get to know serious MMOs, but it takes about 10 minutes to find people complain about worst of the worst to see if that would bother you.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Jitsuryoku

[Heidelgard]

Man it pains me to see a post like this, because in part I can relate.

I think that recently they have made some bad decisions, but I wanna stay positive and believe that the developers will try to fix things up.

I also think that posts like this one, are still valuable feedback, even if this is a player's desperate move. Dear OP, I hope that you will be listened this time, and that your negative feedback will be used for making something positive ... so that your relationship may be restored.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

1. Has been and will be handled by DE. Also many of the "abuses" are simply people complaining because they filled chats etc. with inappropriate crap. Same goes for the forums.

2. Some of those "partners" have been straight up rude and done their videos/streams only for the intent of click-baiting. That is as low as it gets and they deserve everything they are recieving when it comes to flak. They've been feeding on content draught gossips etc. Yes parts of it is true and viable, but there is no reason to exaggerate just to get more views. That is simply bad taste at its worst. A reason why I think DE should reconsider several of their partners.

3. You are playing a beta where things are bound for change. Everyone has been treated the same, not really a reason to quit or call out a company imo. #*!%, it is the nature of online games that the devs change what they want.

4. That you have a point about. But I cant really pinpoint any mode that is in a really bad spot. I even quite enjoyed farming for both Nidus and Harrow in their respective game modes. Which parts are you refering to?

5. I think they listen quite well to the playerbase, more so than many other companies. They just cant fullfill every wish and there are also things they should completely ignore.

6. Not really sure what you are getting at. I personally dont expect a f2p or b2p game for that matter to have anywhere near the support quality of a game I pay a sub for. And I'm quite sure their support desk is back logged by several trivial support requests. Some have been seen here on these forums where new players ask about the most trivial of things they want handled by support.

This is odd.. Sheldon refers to players as hobbyist...he also refers to railjack as Warframe 4. Also ...your lower expectations from a f2p to a sub game is your own.. It is a business model that bring in revenue via impulse purchases. you just justify being treated like crap however you want . Doesnt mean people should take..i dont agree with the op but i can certainly emphasize one bad experience with help desk bringing everything else he dont like to the forefront

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 43 minutes, Heidelgard a dit :

Man it pains me to see a post like this, because in part I can relate.

I think that recently they have made some bad decisions, but I wanna stay positive and believe that the developers will try to fix things up.

I also think that posts like this one, are still valuable feedback, even if this is a player's desperate move. Dear OP, I hope that you will be listened this time, and that your negative feedback will be used for making something positive ... so that your relationship may be restored.

I used to be like you mate.

But now I am pretty much in the same case than OP.

DE won't fix things up, because they have no reason to. Most of the community just gobble up what DE says because they appear as "the devs that listen" while they do the opposite.

[InfestDylan]

This sounds very angry and more like a personal attack on DE. It reminds me of how I feel about blizzard but a bit more emotional.

[Casey33]

I dont understand how people can claim this game is in beta anymore its been out for 6 years to the public were all of the systems it need are in place for about the last 4 years, you wanna talk about a beta i am a starcitizen player and that game has barley anything of what it will end up as at the end

[Yousho]

4 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

i'll never understand why people feel the need to post these "i'm quitting warframe" threads. nobody cares!!! if you're gonna quit the game, just quit the game. do they really think that if they quit the game and make a post about it, it's gonna make everyone else quit the game?

Judging by others responses, people do care, especially when somebody bothers to outline why in a mature way.