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(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) “Disruption” Game Mode Feedback

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I have to say I love the game mode; there's enough enemies to chew through, which i find intrinsically satisfying, that I can deal with the rewards being mediocre. I would very much like it if the keys and their icons were much more visible. Having more amalgam enemies come at us would also be nice.

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It's fun, it's new, I like it. Shapes in addition to colour coding are a big, unexpected design plus.
- Further tile randomization could possibly douse the repetition factor. Perhaps an act similar to Stofler at certain waves? Would make sense considering the state of Jupiter.
- Change red terminal/key colour or colour shade to avoid confusing people looking specifically at the UI for the enemies/hostile objectives
- Demolysts aren't really noticeable up until they are about 20m from the terminals. Extra difficult with complex architecture in between. Even with sound pinging, and I am playing with no ingame music enabled, it's difficult to distinguish their location, which most certainly doesn't cater to tone-deaf players. Perhaps a unique map marker? 
- There's a chance the keys fall through geometry if the enemy is killed in a less standard way.
- Alkonosts can get stuck in doorframes. Perhaps not bad, considering their shape and size indicates a realistic turn of events, but on the other hand, can slow the game pace.
 

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Minor nitpick:

Please settle for one Alad V appearance for his transmissions during Disruption, because it's really weird to see him switching between his old collared, no scar appearance (pre-infested) and his collar-less, purple-scarred appearance.

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I like the concept.  I like that a team can push the objective alone at their own speed.  There is always something to do, which is unique in terms of endless missions.  Every other endless mission has long periods where you can just tune out and miss nothing.

I do not like however that CC is very hit or miss with the Demos.  As far as I can tell status procs don't slow the Demos (tried cold and electric, didn't try impact or blast).  This means the only way to reliably slow them down is to use warframe CC abilities between nullifier pulses.  Unfortunately this is buggy, and there are cases where a demo will ignore all CC even after a pulse is over.  This sometimes results in situations where you and your team are all there and there is nothing any of you can do to save the console.  Anytime you can say "Welp, that one's gone" a good 5-10 seconds before it happens is bad.  I think a mechanic where someone can melee it away from console as it's trying to explode would work as a good fix.  This does not cheapen the fight, but it does give a team some recourse against demos that just ignore everything and blitz to the console.

I also ran into several 1-2 minute periods where no amalgams and thus no keys were spawning.  It's like looking for excavation powercells on that godforsaken ice level.

There was a bug that repeatedly locked me out of my powers or locked me into operator mode until I was killed.  Lost a couple consoles because I couldn't fight.

While great strides were made in making the demos noticeable, they are still not noticeable enough.  In particular, 20-30 seconds after their spawn they should be automatically marked.

Dear god the rewards are trash.  Play for the op, play for hex, never play again.  It's a shame since the mechanics give great amounts of variability.

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Posted (edited)

The game mode is great overall. Adding mini bosses/high value targets in the game is more fun than just use limbo press 4 then sleep. But oh boy the rewards are pure trash, If the drop tables are too heavily diluted with the additions of Kuva, Endo, Axis, etc. make a new node that acts an “elite” disruption node that is not connected to The Ropalolyst node, I would say the starting level is 50-60.

Edited by DrivaMain

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Really like it, it's fast paced, the hide-and-seek feel is fun and doesn't feel like it would grow old quick.

Cons:-Alad really needs to shut up a bit more.

-Loot table is garbage, Hexanon should be kept in because it's part of the new stuff but it needs to be buffed at least 8 to 10 times.

-Maybe give players choice between one of the four keys right at the start (maybe some sort of one-time use universal key) so that the first minute isn't just slow running around, that part doesn't feel too great.


Bugs:-Keys can get stuck in the ceiling.

-Got that bug where you can't cast any spell at all (like you're pemanently stuck in a nullifier bubble) after fighting the MOA demolyst.

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After 2 hours of this new game mode, i feel confident enough to say that:

-Rewards are trash. The hexenon needed to craft Wisp are 1200 and you get 6 or 8 from the rotation reward? When running for the 4k challenge, i got 250 hexenon by killing enemies. So you should think about making the hexenon reward at least 10 times the actual quantity. The new mod have really low chance to be played at all, since i have not seen one single player using wall latch in this game for like ages... so i don't see why you want to make us use a mechanic that is obsolete and useless. You can drop only lith, meso and neo relic from a game mode that was meant to be "end game".

-The enemy are really weak: i felt like all the trash mobs are only worth killing when you are looking for the key to activate the turret, since they are not able to kill the turret fast enough you can just focus on rushing to kill the Demolyst.

-Demolyst: they deal no damage at all as far as i know, since their only focus is to rush to the turret. So, it is just a passive enemy,

Conclusion: THE IDEA IS GREAT. It is a really dynamic mode that can easily replace all the endless mode that we are actually meant to be playing. But the rewards, the easyness and the realization are not. If that new game mode is meant to be something that we have to play for more then 1 week, think about buffing the rewards, introducing things that are actually painfull to farm, such as Kuva, last released relics (axi if possible....) and so on. Even if it is meant to be an end game mode, i found myself just running around being never or really rarely hit by enemies. 

That being said, i hope that this time we are not facing another game mode that we are going to forget in 1 week since it is not worth running. Good job for the idea but please read those comments and address what the community is really asking for.

 

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Additional feedback on rewards: Now that I looked at the full reward table, gotta say the rewards are really bad. At the very least it should give a LOT more hexenon. Once this operation is over, I'll probably only play this game mode in Arbitrations (at least I hope it'll get added to Arbi's). 

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Starting with the positive, gameplay wise I rather enjoy disruption. It's fast, it's fun, it rewards co-ordination and being pro-active. The downside is that most of the drop table is taken up by hexenon (which drops in abundance during disruption missions anyway) and relics.The new mods are the only thing drawing me to this game mode at the moment.

Relics are fine as rewards, but they're everywhere on the star chart and they cap out at neo relics aka the ones everyone ends up with hundreds of because they drop from basically every A rotation in late start chart. I was hoping to see axi relics on c rotation, maybe an ephemera or something else a bit special; Something like earth sabotages 0.5% chance for a complete forma - not what you'd go there for but enough to create a woah moment when you get it. Alternatively, you could make relics drop as flawless or exceptional as a way to differentiate them from all the other places you get relics - not as good as ESO, but better than your bog standard star chart mission.

As it is, when I'm finished with collecting the new mods, it's going to be difficult to motivate myself to keep playing this mission. I don't want it to go the way of defection, but without decent rewards propping it up, that's what will likely happen.

Tl;dr Neo relics aren't great for a higher level mission, hexenon is worse, pls fix rewards or we'll end up with a dead game mode after 2 weeks.

 

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Posted (edited)

You're right.  Something else will need to be added to the drop pool or the mission type will die once all the drops are farmed.  Relics alone won't keep people going back when there are other efficient ways of getting those relics.  Definitely need to get some exclusive rare items for the mission type.

Edited by CeejAttack

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Posted (edited)

Disruption is an unfun slog.

 

• You just had to give it an energy drain mode didn't you?  Because screw fun core gameplay elements amirite.  Gotta nearly force everyone to use the same meta frames and rely on meta weapons instead.  At least the magnetic mode lets you avoid being screwed over until you mess up and go into a magnet well. THAT is decent gameplay design.  Energy drain modes and creatures are NOT in any way good game design otherwise.   In fact these magnet wells would be a great overhaul to certain enemies, where they fire a slow flare-like projectile that creates a magnet well on impact.   REPLACING existing enemy types not adding yet another screw-abilities enemy type.  (Nullifiers included could work that way too,  firing a slowly expanding nullifier bubble.  Parasitic eximi might fire something similar to a magnet well, but with leech-tentacles that connect to drain energy instead.)

• You just had to make the Demolysts immune to abilities. (Nothing I tried worked)   All the talk of how CC frames were thrown in the garbage and the one mode where that would be ideal, CC frames are directly invalidated.    And of course make them bullet sponges on top of that where 1 bullet kills other enemies in the mission it takes 100 to kill a demo in addition to being immune (in typical DE fashion) to your abilities.  Plus being incredibly awkward to be aware of.  I was not able to notice any map icons for them, and the map is cluttered as it is,  and the audio warning is inconsistent and unreliable.   You can be completely unaware of where the demo is until there practically on top of the totem with nothing you can do about it.

• Keys spawn way too inconsistently.

• Towers/totems/whatever are miles apart sometimes.

• The map is chaotic with line of sight constantly broken up, on top of the chaotic swarm of enemies that is at the same time not enough enemies.   (And it's corpus on top of that,  so screw any ability frame I guess, as usual.)

 

• Hexanon feels like a mobile freemium trash tier resource where you need vastly more than you can reasonably gain in any sort of timely manner,  strong arming people towards making purchases instead.  Is this a game,  or is it a mobile cash cow app?  It keeps slipping in that direction.

Edited by Kingsmount
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The closest I got to affecting a Demolyst with an ability is that Gara's wall will make them stop for about 2 seconds, before they just bash through it. 

Two seconds helped sometimes, but otherwise it was just wild flailing with melee or holding the trigger down. They could use some tweaks. 

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My thoughts: It's probably my favorite endless mode mechanically, but...

1. I can't really tell the which key I'm carrying most of the time.

2. The keys on the floor aren't super easy to notice. I mostly detect them by minimap and try to pickup everywhere until I get it. 

3. Some of the demolysts seem completely immune to damage, while also running at 100 miles/hour. Other times, they just fall over. Feels inconsistent.

4. I almost never notice demolysts spawning. They need to be marked from infinite distance as soon as they spawn.

5. Reward table sucks. Take hexenon out of it completely. Axis should drop from C rotation.

Still. It's pretty fun.  

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I don't feel like the rewards are really worth it. 

I also don't know why the demolyst has to be both super tanky AND immune to abilities. Maybe one or the other? One that has lots of EHP and requires CC and mad DPS and another that's fast, agile and fragile that requires precision aiming and focused fire but is also immune to Warframe abilities? I just feel like if it's a tank and it ignores your attempts to use warframe abilities it trivializes your choice in Warframe and makes it all about having super-high damage guns and melee weapons. Please don't trivialize my choice of warframe. 

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They should remove the new crafting materials and mods... they are 100% useless after you have the weapons or all mods. Add Endo, Kuva and Vaulted relics as a rare reward from C rotation. Is it really that hard to give the table something that is not useless in one week or just worthless?

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I'll now write what, from my point of view, could improve SO MUCH that mission, which is a great base for something really end game:

-Make a system index-like, where you can chose from 3 options, and the options are basically just the starting level of the enemy. Something likeç

 -Easy: enemy starting level is 50.

 -Medium: enemy starting level is 70

-Hard: enemy starting level is 100

Depending on the choice that you made, the reward table will be different, and in particular the rewards will be greater going from easy to hard (obvious right?).

Further more you could make the resources reward being multiplied by the number of round that you have been able to reach. So for example if you have reached round 10, your resources reward from the rotation will be multiplied by 10.

Another thing, there seems to be something wrong with the channeling while you are close to the demolyst.

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Some feedbacks:

- Reward are TRASH

- Demolyst silence is an horrible mechanic that just like arbitrations punishes the use of frames with abilities for no reason at all forcing the usual boring buffed weapons meta.

- Demolyst silence also causes energy weapon abilities (like Excalibur exalted blade) with channeling to bug out during recast making it impossible to play since the channeling gets stuck, only solution is to let the warframe die and respawn.

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The gameplay is not bad, but the rewards are too junk, especially the clan's rewards are only one trophy. I think it should be like the 2017 event, giving a special clan blueprint research authority to the top 10% of the clan. In addition, this activity has also increased the activity of many clan, hoping to add a few special clan rewards. And can give a special dynamic leaderboard like the previous activities. This event can be as good as the 2017 event, not like now, everyone quits the game after playing 4000 points.

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Merged some other feedback threads into this one. Thanks for the constructive feedback, we're watching this thread closely so keep it coming!

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This mode is really fun and a decent challenge. There is almost always a lot going on at once, which I like. I’d love to see a similar version showing up in other star chart locations. There are a few problems:

1. Having C rotation be Neo telcos is pretty underwhelming. We can get those really easily at Hydron, and that is probably a better exp grind too. Less fun, but if I want neo relics I know where to go already. I think switching Neo to Axi would really help this mode out, because we don’t have a very efficient Axi farming spot (that I know of right now). This does serve as a dedicated grind spot for orokin cells and the new resource, which I like. Gives a good reason to come and enjoy the mode. 

2. Sometimes Amalgams just don’t spawn, especially after host migration. Can make things a little slow. Might be a bug though.

3. One other problem is that while the meta for this mode seems a bit loose, I.e. several frame types will work well, I feel like the Demolyst’s ability to nullify Crowd control seems to further shift the game’s meta away from C.C. frames being useful, which is a shame. They do work here, but the focus is still on damage. I do like how it can only temporarily nullify things though. 

4. I do agree with some others that giving a bit more warning for the demos might help a little. They can pop up really fast, but once you know to look for them it works and adds to the challenge.

 

All in all, I’m a fan. There’s more to it than just blindly nuking, which I like. It doesn’t seem to need a strict meta like eidolons or ESO, which I like. The rewards just need to be a bit more worthwhile.

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The one big positive that should be taken away is that the mode excels at giving players control over speed almost perfectly and with just the right amount of difficulty to compensate. The only sticking point is the spawning of the keys. Beyond that, you can go as fast as you like. You can have two or three terminals running at the same time. It's risky to do that, but the control sits entirely in the players's hands. As far as I'm concerned, that's the big thing to be considered for updating existing game modes: Extermination has the player control but generally lacks the risk, while defence and interception missions don't have control much at all and it's a bit of a waiting game at points.

(I say that for this mode despite knowing the Thermia event now has a similar 'user controlled difficulty' because I haven't done Thermia fractures in a long while. 😛 )

That said, there are a few suggestions, based on both my observations and a few thoughts on the thread:

1. The enemies that drop keys should probably spawn with the terminals, somewhere in the same tile(s) as the terminals themselves (though the white key could spawn in the room with the blue terminal, just as long as there's a key to a terminal in a tile). This isn't just to make the mode play with more fluidity, since players can then reliably activate all four terminals for maximum speed, but also make it more evident what you're supposed to do. The first time playing, despite knowing about how it works from streams, I wasn't sure where the keys were, even as I'm blitzing through enemies around the console rooms. I was running off to side-rooms to try to find them!

2. The marker for the demolyst should appear further out, but should fade in to emulate the beeping sound, if that's possible. If it just flat out appears further out with no fade-in, it can either A: have insufficient impact or B: make the mode too easy. If the visuals and the audio match, everything's gucci.

Not going to say anything on rewards because other people have done that and I think it's a game type that would benefit being spread through the starchart. The idea—terminals and keys and buffs / debuffs and destructor enemies—has nothing that necessarily isolates it to Jupiter, or even the Corpus faction.

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Disappointed that during Disruption mission, one of the 'rewards' was 'Tenno speed boost'. Thanks DE for making the experience unpleasant for someone that gets simulator sickness from this (aka, its no different to Volt's speed), and no way to avoid it. Its not like i can wait for the reward to out-distance me on the map to get out of the AoE, or back-flip to get out of the effect.

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I LOVE this game-mode, and honestly hope to see it get integrated into Sorties, Arbitrations, etc etc. Few to no complaints about the execution of it itself. The rewards however are a v different beast.... Hexenon drops everywhere in the mission and in the Ropalolyst, so it's completely unnecessary to be (in such small amounts!) in the round rewards.. After farming w my friend for Wisp, I already have more Hexenon than is needed for the limited equipment that uses it, and my Dojo will take five days yet for both of the amalgam guns. I'd rather take endo even, was hoping for chance of kuva pockets maybe to push me for long runs but while I could see lore arguments against that, with the winged Eidolon around I'm not sure if they stand up entirely. If Hexenon is non-negotiable maybe it could be used for something else, some wildcard resource that can be converted for a fee into a select set of other resources, (maybe Nitain at the least, since there's the whole rare gases thing going on with both and Nitain availability is way bad in the inter-season Nightwave situation). Otherwise we have something that will literally have NO use to gain once you've built the new equipment, which is a hit against players wanting grofit from returning to a v fun game-mode... 

Moreover, you'll get tons of the new modsets off amalgam corpses anyway, so them being in table "makes sense" for ppl who wanna get the mode over with and not return but will also become v wasteful for repeated play, esp as they're common enough I can't imagine decent plat values on any of it except, maaaybe, the rares on C. Which brings me to..... no Axi on rotation C, never minding the lack of current unvaulted relics in table. Consider making a rotation D in that case? Maybe add Battalysts/Conculysts by that point even, so there's grofit moved from the unpleasant Lua exterm sentient farm; I'm glad they can drop during last phase Ropalolyst but even that's not endless. I'm mostly okay w the idea of a one-place fits all endless relic farm if that's all this was going to be, but we'd need Axi's even if the Void remains the Only option for the unvaults. I want an excuse to run this for ages, see how awfully it can scale, get slaughtered by level 120 Demolysts!

Just some suggestions, I deeply love this gamemode and hope more stuff like it comes in the future, but it's the love of the mode and not the rewards that has me interested unfortunately... Feedback seems pretty in-agreement about drop tables so I rlly hope this can be reworked in some way to make it worth coming back to in perpetuity, the way Arbits and ESO already are for me even if their tables could use tuning too 😛

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Posted (edited)

Pugged a couple of 4000 rounds.

1. Amalgam key drops need to be drastically upped as others say.

2. The rewards are such that there's no reason whatsoever to stay past 4000 points. Why more relics as rewards? The players who would stay any length of time already have thousands of relics that will never be used. Now if relics were meltable into kuva or even endo...

3. The new set mods are way too underpowered for the fact that they take up space on already cramped builds. Whoever at DE has been in love with wall latching for the duration and keeps trying to incent it WHEN THE GAME MAPS THEMSELVES VERY OFTEN DO NOT SUPPORT IT, fine, buff wall latch damage by 1000%, then maybe players will do it.Setting up wall latching or aim gliding is a gigantic DPS sink that needs to be compensated with an extreme dps increase, not some tickling amount that doesn't justify the tradeoffs. And the mod set for sniper rifles? Really? Make it for bullet hoses, not an underutilized and underpowered weapon in horde tiles.

4. Too much nullification going on in the game mode generally from too many kinds of mobs, and now the -terminals themselves- turn into nullifiers? ENOUGH. At one point a bug caused ALL my powers to be locked out for ~6-8 minutes. Nullifiers don't really bother me that much, just annoying, but it's time for you to bite the bullet and focus on the real game problem, AOE CHEEZE abilities that should have all been LOSed, dmg capped, coned, target capped LONG ago. Just putting in more and more nullifiers is not a good fix. The easy availability of about 20 unchecked, unbalanced AOE spam powers is why your player base is so bad generally, unaware of maps, poor team players, unable to juke, and adding more invulnerability drones and nullifiers as bandaids is only extending the pain.

Before all the power creep in mods applicable to frame powers, and before some of the more over the top "reworks" AOE spam was not nearly the issue it is in the game today. No one is asking for WF to be some elitist game, but the current state of out of control frame powers is way too far in the other direction.

EDIT: made a thread on the supposed Gaze "buff" but didn't get much attention. As it is, Gaze chamber chains only ~10% of its damage to the second target and 1% to the third target. Womp womp. Surely this isn't the buff that was intended and is a bug of some sort. Please revisit.

Edited by Buttaface
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+ Game mode is cool, much better than regular mobile defense because you can't cheese it with a frost/limbo, you need to actively search for the keys and demolysts.

 

- Rewards are bad (Hexenon ammout is laughable compared with in-mission drops).

     Fix: Hexenon rewards should be 50+.

- You can't really see which key you're carrying without paying attention when you pickup or turning the camera to look sideways.

     Fix: in the terminal ui info, change the wording for the key you have from "Key needed (in white because a member is carrying)" to "CARRYING KEY".

- Haven't experienced this yet, but in solo you can have trouble dealing with high level demolysts as the time between you finding it and he arriving in the terminal is short, so you either need to have luck when trying to find him, or have a really high burst damage to mow him down in a few seconds.

     Fix: set the objective marker on demolysts based on distance to objective and number of squad members: minimum distance to mark = (5 - number of squad members) * (a fixed distance), so if you're solo you'll have him marked earlier so you can have time to kill him, and if you're in a full squad you need teamwork to track him down.

- Too easy for experienced players, maybe hard for new players, a scaling would be nice.

     Fix: Make 3 nodes on the planet with different levels or a index-like risk pick in the current node, or make nodes in higer level planets with this mode

- Not about the game mode itself, but about the clan operation: expecting a single player from a solo ghost clan to earn 8k points for a simple Teracotta statue is too much, and 20k for gold means literally hours of uninterrupted play. I got 4000 points in 40 minutes with a full squad = ~100 points/min. Teracotta would need ~80min (you already removed nightwave 60min missions due to raging players feedback) and gold would need ~3h 20min. Staying in a single mission for 3 hours with a high risk of host migration crashes is completely insane, not to say that warframe tells you in chat "you've been playing for 1 hour, take a break". I wouldn't mind having to play a TOTAL OF 3 HOURS for the trophy split into 30 min matches.

     Fix: Have clan operations points cummulative TOTAL, not personal best. Another option would be a dynamic system where the required points for a given clan be based on ammount of ACTIVE MEMBERS WITHIN 30 DAYS (not a guesstimate of 50% active players), so if you're in a solo clan you would be needing 1* base points for a teracotta trophy; a ghost clan with 8 out of 10 active members would need 8* base points; a moon clan with 763 out of 975 active members would need 763* base points.

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