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Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

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14 minutes ago, Agayek said:

The combos, primarily.  Instead of the old standy of hitting buttons with pauses spread between to differentiate the combos, it instead relies on you using movement and aiming keys to determine which combo you're performing.

Personally, I like the new combos with Primal Fury.  There's a bit of jank where the right-click combos end and then you pull your gun out which feels kinda weird, but with the way melee works now that doesn't actually get in the way of anything so it's a relatively minor issue.

Cool thanks for the clarification. Im not a combo guy I just mash E so I never would have noticed.

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1 hour ago, mrbubblepants said:

So I tried the wukong and cant figure out what they melee 3.0 part is. Like what is different?

I know.  They acted like this was some kind of risky testbed/preview for the new melee, and ... practically nothing beyond getting to have different first attacks (finally) and it's easier to start a new, different combo in the middle of the previous one.

I mean, this is an improvement to the clunky crap we had before, but it's a long way from melee 3 and nothing to get excited about.  It's also decidedly badly chosen inputs (forward+melee, aim+melee, forward+aim+melee), which is annoying given the point was to see this done better.

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I’ll start by saying that I love the wukong rework.  He is so much fun to play now, with a high str high energy low efficiency build, but I just have a few complaints/suggestions.  1st, could you make the damage of the clone increase with strength, instead of just being 2x.  2nd, could you either make cloud walker have a much better duration if it is meant to be a movement tool, or could it be a channeled ability instead.  Finally, could his passive be tweaked just a little bit?  My idea was that we still get the 3 revives, but instead of being chosen at random we would get something like 5 seconds to pick (could be less or more I just set that so that people wouldn’t stand and remain invincible but frozen forever) from the 5, up to 3 times.  This would give a bit of tactics to wukong, you could strategically “die” to activate a buff during a boss fight, or to get a drop rate bonus while farming lower levels, it be essentially the same effect with the removal of a probably unpopular factor of rng and an increase in the tactical options for wukong.

(Btw, he is definitely gonna be my main for a while now, sorry Atlas.)

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Hey kills from the clone don't count towards my kill count. Is this a bug or intentional?

 

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Posted (edited)

Hey, I have an idea to make useful of Wukong's Iron staff's impact damage and turn it into somewhat powerful. Hope I'm on the right forum to comment on.

For every impact proc from the staff, how about 50% chance of getting the enemy stunned. Just an idea. Hope you consider this.

Edit: removed the crit part I forgot that primal rage can do it lmao

Edited by BonelessBurrito1

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Posted (edited)

I know sometimes I get ahead of myself, and judge way to much. But this time I really gave it some thought, and I really hope Wukong's 4 gets changed soon. I know he just got done with a rework but, Why carry a melee weapon on you and also have a melee ability? I just think n feel that Wukong's 4 is just straight pointless. I just know you can make Wukong's 4 WAY better then this garbage 4 ability. I'm not yelling at you for it or anything, all im trying to say is Why have 2 melee weapons?

 

Edited by Gladiatar

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I really wish the clone would use his gun when I'm in primal fury.  The ai just isn't as effective with primal fury as he is with a gun.  As it stands your better off using a zaw  over primal fury since keeping the clone using a good primary like amprex is far better than it trying to use iron staff.  This make wukongs "ultimate" a dead skill.

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43 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

DE just killed wukong with that defy nerf LOL

"Defy nerf" its waaaaaaay to harsh TBH. Without arcanes wukong can tank like a madman on Mot and the added utility arround his kit makes him way more powerfull than before the change...

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Nice changes BUT still don't see a reason to use his 4th when i already got a zaw...

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5 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

There isn't an energy drain.

Eesh. I’ve just seen the actual timer. Its like 4 seconds. Thats awful. They should have just gone with energy drain.

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1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Its like 4 seconds.

2 by default.

Never has been an energy drain on the ability, it was one of those weird ones with a different drain criteria, 'x' energy per unit of distance moved.

If we had that same drain now it could be pretty crazy with how fast we move.

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54 minutes ago, BigBoss5762 said:

Is the released of WuKong new skin being delayed?

Not so much "delayed" as "released separately from the rework".  I'm not sure why they released the rework early (it's buggy enough that I'm reasonably confident they rushed it out for some reason, and that's why the skin didn't release with it), but they did.  On the dev workshop stream from 2 days ago, Rebecca said "30% chance it's coming this week", while Pablo said "no chance for this week", so it's likely coming sometime within the next 2-3 weeks, but that's the closest we've got to a timeline for it.

53 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Eesh. I’ve just seen the actual timer. Its like 4 seconds. Thats awful. They should have just gone with energy drain.

It actually works surprisingly well.  With how fast you move in it, you don't need any more time than that; as long as you even vaguely try to move, you'll be healed to full from any amount and be able to get almost anywhere you could see when you triggered the ability (exceptions for plains and vallis, obv).

The duration seems short in the context of his old kit, but the rework changed it fundamentally and it fits quite well now.  His new kit is really quite hectic in comparison to the old, with jumping in and out of both defy and cloudwalker pretty regularly, all while you swing a big stick around. 

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It will be better if you can choose what weapon (primary/secondary/melee/exalted) to use for the clone in Primary Fury, thanks.

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Just now, modalmojo said:

Can we remove the timer on Cloud Walker as it already drains energy?

It does not drain energy.  It takes a very small energy cost (25 base) to enter Cloudwalker and nothing more.  It's just a normal duration-based ability now, just with a short duration.

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1 hour ago, Agayek said:

It actually works surprisingly well.  With how fast you move in it, you don't need any more time

But what is the reason for it? Is there seriously any truly good reason why Cloud Walker had to be nerfed like this? The ability was barely used in its old state and it just seems like they've traded one extreme for another. Not to mention the augment has now officially been made 100% useless thanks to this nerf.

I mean it's not like Cloud Walker is over powered. Staying in it for forty seconds would not have done anyone any harm and neither would an energy drain version. If you want to argue "Well it'd be an AFK tool" I'd like to point out it was hardly ever used like that in the old version and we have far better AFK frames out there, like Limbo for instance.

Honestly, I was really looking forward to zipping around the Plains and Vallis with the new Cloud Walker and actually building for its augment. The excitement has officially died for me. I really hope DE see the error in this and just give the old duration back. It really makes no sense at all.

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3 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

DE just killed wukong with that defy nerf LOL

i agree with this, tryign higher end content just feels rougher, even if "costs" are allot less. I hope you have energy pies with hoist often you will be spamming things to dodge, dip, duck out and into combat. and as for the "heal its cool, except with certain enemies still 1 hitting u with 1500 armor buff.  

2 hours ago, KittySkin said:

"Defy nerf" its waaaaaaay to harsh TBH. Without arcanes wukong can tank like a madman on Mot and the added utility arround his kit makes him way more powerfull than before the change...

and you probably built, umbral which iallows any warframe to be super beefy. only difference is you can drop "fiber" for something else. 

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Just now, TheGodofWiFi said:

But what is the reason for it? Is there seriously any truly good reason why Cloud Walker had to be nerfed like this? The ability was barely used in its old state and it just seems like they've traded one extreme for another. Not to mention the augment has now officially been made 100% useless thanks to this nerf.

I mean it's not like Cloud Walker is over powered. Staying in it for forty seconds would not have done anyone any harm and neither would an energy drain version. If you want to argue "Well it'd be an AFK tool" I'd like to point out it was hardly ever used like that in the old version and we have far better AFK frames out there, like Limbo for instance.

Honestly, I was really looking forward to zipping around the Plains and Vallis with the new Cloud Walker and actually building for its augment. The excitement has officially died for me. I really hope DE see the error in this and just give the old duration back. It really makes no sense at all.

I'm not seeing how the augment has been made useless?  It gives 14 seconds of invisibility to nearby party members when you use it.  It was never great, because the invisibility breaks on damage (I assume it still does, haven't tested it though), but the same functionality still exists.

As for staying in Cloudwalker for 40 seconds: Why?  What purpose would that serve?  It's a movement tool now, nothing more or less, unlike before where it was literally useless.

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On 2019-06-17 at 2:46 PM, DeMonkey said:

Realistically it'll be more than that. 

225 base armour, most will probably end up running an Umbral build which when maxed and used with the set provides you with 658 armour, 2158 armour post Defy. That alone is ~88% DR. Throw in an Arcane Guardian and you'll hit 90% DR, or don't because ~88% DR is usable enough anyway.

after playign new wu its kinda "manditory" to go umbral build to survive. 

On 2019-06-17 at 4:22 PM, DeMonkey said:

I probably won't even bother with Adaptation, and will instead try and work the cloud usage into normal gameplay so that I'm healing everytime I'm gap closing.

^ adaptation helps him survive when your buff dips/drops off cuz well its short duration compared to several other frames reductions. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Agayek said:

I'm not seeing how the augment has been made useless?  It gives 14 seconds of invisibility to nearby party members when you use it.  It was never great, because the invisibility breaks on damage (I assume it still does, haven't tested it though), but the same functionality still exists.

It's been made useless since now it requires constant spamming, whereas beforehand Wukong could act as a sort of moving safe zone the others could take a breather in. The augment already needed a buff so that allies wouldn't break stealth when directly in Wukong's cloud range, but they didn't even do that.

5 hours ago, Agayek said:

As for staying in Cloudwalker for 40 seconds: Why?

You can't turn that question around, that's a fallacy. I'll answer anyway; because it's more suvivability that way, makes it a viable method of travel and it was that duration before the rework. And it's fun. That all important word everyone seems to forget.

The question is why was it nerfed? What purpose did it serve?

5 hours ago, Agayek said:

It's a movement tool now, nothing more or less

And it would be a more fun and usefull movement tool if it retained its original duration or was even made into a energy drain ability. Honestly I don't know why you're arguing for a nerf that simply was not needed at all.

However you slice it, pre-rework Defy was more powerful than the current one. It wasn't an interactive ability at all and needed a change, but it was still a big hit to Wukong. There should have been no nerfs to his other abilities, only buffs to make up for it. Especially Cloud Walker, which as we agree was basically useless before the rework. Why would you nerf an ability that no one used ever?

I do not get Pablo at all. He just made Cloud Walker go in the complete opposite direction; fast Cloud, low duration. He never even explained his reasons either. There is absolutely no way Cloud Walker is an overpowered ability that interferes with another persons gameplay.

Edited by TheGodofWiFi
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6 minutes ago, Agayek said:

I'm not seeing how the augment has been made useless?  It gives 14 seconds of invisibility to nearby party members when you use it.  It was never great, because the invisibility breaks on damage (I assume it still does, haven't tested it though), but the same functionality still exists.

As for staying in Cloudwalker for 40 seconds: Why?  What purpose would that serve?  It's a movement tool now, nothing more or less, unlike before where it was literally useless.

because people like me used its older version to go through rooms in survival and get near oxygen pods pop out snag it fight things, cloud walk to another place.

while yes defy was "invul god" you could still get stun chained an die(which is silly when it happens) . as it stands now his kit is way to micro manage, with all the short durations, and clone you need to watch hp bar off. cuz its not just you that heals off 2. its kinda.. well over interactive. and very annoying. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

It's been made useless since now it requires constant spamming, whereas beforehand Wukong could act as a sort of moving safe zone the others could take a breather in. The augment already needed a buff so that allies wouldn't break stealth when directly in Wukong's cloud range, but they didn't even do that.

You can't turn that question around, that's a fallacy. I'll answer anyway; because it's more suvivability that way, makes it a viable method of travel and it was that duration before the rework. The question is why was it nerfed? What purpose did it serve?

And it would be a more fun and usefull movement tool if it retained its original duration. Honestly I don't know why you're arguing for a nerf that simply was not needed at all.

honestly so far his change feels clunkier,  and i agree with you, while deff probably needed a change. i feel its current version is off. and cloud walker should not been touched

And one just seems odd. it costs energy to "sic" my clone on people when khora does it free if i recall. it scales off my hp like crazy... but if im gun its melee, enemies still aim me over it so why the huge hp pool???

Edited by NytemareRhosyn

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