Jump to content
[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

Recommended Posts

23 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

The description provided by Pablo for the combo system streamlining sounds like a huge nerf in damage if you only get the multiplier in 1 combo.

They said however for a long time that they will increase the base damage of all melee weapons. Probably to reach the same power as a 3x combo multiplier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when this wukong + melee 3.0 going to be shipped? , someone wrote "this week" so i'm curious . . .  anyone know ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, -OP-NerevarCM said:

They said however for a long time that they will increase the base damage of all melee weapons. Probably to reach the same power as a 3x combo multiplier.

They said they might, more that they will; while some weapons were going to get base range nerfs and a few like Dual Daggers and Sparring were mentioned to be getting slight range increases. Course, those ideas might have changed by now; so we can potentially learn about current plans by observing how Primal Fury is being done now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Pablo  Thank you for showing up the abilities of the upcoming rework. I'm very interested in the Celestial Twin since Duality is one of my favorite things in the game, and I already see a lot of improvements with monkey clone. 

Looks like ability to constantly block instead of attacking was removed. It would be nice if other specters would have that too. 
I also understand that there a lot of AI limitations in terms of hitting certain enemies so that's something we will have to live with. 

But I'd be really happy if you looked into this thread of existing specter issues and maybe tweaked a thing or two from the list.

For instance double reload on weapons with high fire rates

Edited by Chatv71e
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chatv71e said:

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Pablo  Thank you for showing up the abilities of the upcoming rework. I'm very interested in the Celestial Twin since Duality is one of my favorite things in the game, and I already see a lot of improvements with monkey clone. 

Looks like ability to constantly block instead of attacking was removed. It would be nice if other specters would have that too. 
I also understand that there a lot of AI limitations in terms of hitting certain enemies so that's something we will have to live with. 

But I'd be really happy if you looked into this thread of existing specter issues and maybe tweaked a thing or two from the list.

For instance double reload on weapons with high fire rates

Excellent idea! If Wukong's specter has resulted in better overall specter AI, that would be very logical to enhance existing warframe specter's with similar pathing and attack logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Footage looks good. He and his twin are quite the dynamic duo going on the offensive.

His numerous and on-demand invulnerability phases will keep him in the fight longer than most, plus twice the firepower from your arsenal loadout is nothing to scoff at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

1 - ok, better than the old one but it does feel like a rip off of equinox duality.... although to be honest, if I want a clone to help with damage mirage and equinox duality are much better options imo.

2 - well it's faster, regens health and allows you to do spy without setting alarms off (always nice for another frame to work for this) so no big issues there.

3 - Sorry, doesn't matter how energetic and positive you are about the rework in the stream, I still feel it's a nerf over the old ability even after you showed it.... if I want armor which is capped at 1500 anyway I can take valkyr, I can take inaros which has negation swarm augment, I can take any of the 90% damage reduction frames ... and to top it off none of those are forcing me to go slower just to get a temporary buff.

You say the damage reduction of around 80% is validated instead of the 90% others have because of it's health regen... um nezha (2nd ability) and inaros (passive and ability) can both regen health, inaros can even get a little sand based helper.....not to mention there's life steal and operator modes which can heal us pretty quickly now too.  

It honestly feels like a change 'to make it look like something's been done', rather than it being 'better'. 

This lacks the synergy of the old version where we could use defy, rage and life steal to allow melee players to face tank, a play style some of us actually like... I'd rather be killing stuff without worrying over a timer or having to trigger an action to get a buff.   Being interactive with a frame doesn't just mean needing to press an ability after a duration has run out, interactive can also be about how you're using the frame because of an abililty.

3 passive revives per mission does not make up for this imo. 

4 - well it's a melee 3.0 test of the old frame... and well the old one was pretty useless so can't be any worse. 

 

Ultimately after watching the video this rework doesn't make me want to use wukong over other frames after the rework, if anything it makes me even less likely to use it when the only reason I use the current one, albeit rarely (haven't put forma onto it as I know prime is 'soon'), is being nerfed imo.

I'll try it but I'm betting it will end up gathering dust like it does now. 

 

Edited by LSG501
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You say the damage reduction of around 80%

Realistically it'll be more than that. 

225 base armour, most will probably end up running an Umbral build which when maxed and used with the set provides you with 658 armour, 2158 armour post Defy. That alone is ~88% DR. Throw in an Arcane Guardian and you'll hit 90% DR, or don't because ~88% DR is usable enough anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, -OP-NerevarCM said:

They said however for a long time that they will increase the base damage of all melee weapons. Probably to reach the same power as a 3x combo multiplier.

Perhaps I was not clear. I was referring to the bonus damage on each individual combo, which is independent from base damage combo counter multiplayer.

Example: Stalking Fan. All 3 combos have damage multipliers on top/separate from your base damage combo multiplier. Pablo made it sound like in this new system, 2 of those combos will no longer deal bonus damage other than what you have in your combo counter/mods. That is a huge nerf to overall damage if you only get one of those, which may not even be the combo with forced procs depending on their choices.

Also: Bringing base damage up to par with combo counter on 3x is still a huge nerf if it doesn't scale beyond that. I often find myself with 4x during Arbitration survival. 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

That is a good point. The dev workshop post mentions this is being used as something of a test bed for melee 3.0 so that would suggest such changes might be for all melee if successfully accepted.

Indeed, and that's not encouraging. It looks fluid and fun, but fluid and fun is not worth it if I can't kill anything at high level.

 

 

Edited by Jarriaga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Realistically it'll be more than that. 

225 base armour, most will probably end up running an Umbral build which when maxed and used with the set provides you with 658 armour, 2158 armour post Defy. That alone is ~88% DR. Throw in an Arcane Guardian and you'll hit 90% DR, or don't because ~88% DR is usable enough anyway.

I was using their numbers and reasoning.  To be fair if it's high on things like armour we'll likely use adaptation as well.

Still feel it's a nerf over the old defy but that opinion won't make any difference as it will be going through as is like the last time we had a dev workshop on a rework and they just ignored our feedback and released as described anyway.

Edited by LSG501

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, -OP-NerevarCM said:

They said however for a long time that they will increase the base damage of all melee weapons. Probably to reach the same power as a 3x combo multiplier.

oh i forgot about that .. last year they reworked all weapons primary and secondary but they skipped melee to until after melee 3 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Realistically it'll be more than that. 

225 base armour, most will probably end up running an Umbral build which when maxed and used with the set provides you with 658 armour, 2158 armour post Defy. That alone is ~88% DR. Throw in an Arcane Guardian and you'll hit 90% DR, or don't because ~88% DR is usable enough anyway.

Umbral fiber on a frame with 225 base armor isn't worth the mod slot.  You're better off using Adaptation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

opinion won't make any difference as it will be going through as is like the last time we had a dev workshop on a rework and they just ignored our feedback and released as described anyway. 

I wish you were wrong, but I know you're right.

  • Applause 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Umbral fiber on a frame with 225 base armor isn't worth the mod slot.  You're better off using Adaptation.

Good thing it also benefits the set, and both Vitality and Intensify are going to be useful.

  • Satisfied 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DeMonkey said:

Good thing it also benefits the set, and both Vitality and Intensify are going to be useful.

The 7 wukong mains will put an umbral forma on their wukong so they can fit all 3 maxed umbral mods.  The rest of us know better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The rest of us know better.

Nothing better than fun, if this is what people consider fun why are they wrong for doing so?

  • Like 2
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

The 7 wukong mains will put an umbral forma on their wukong

 

19 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Nothing better than fun

primed flow, umbral vit and intensify, primed continuity, primal rage.

3 slots to fit: adaptation, celestial slam, stretch, hunter adrenaline, umbral fiber, depending on fun/QoL/tankyness/energy management as required in my opinion.

I am hoping to be able to go for adaptation, slam and stretch and not have energy problems. The augment seems really fun, and a bit of range will be QoL for defy i suppose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

 

primed flow, umbral vit and intensify, primed continuity, primal rage.

3 slots to fit: adaptation, celestial slam, stretch, hunter adrenaline, umbral fiber, depending on fun/QoL/tankyness/energy management as required in my opinion.

I am hoping to be able to go for adaptation, slam and stretch and not have energy problems. The augment seems really fun, and a bit of range will be QoL for defy i suppose. 

I probably won't even bother with Adaptation, and will instead try and work the cloud usage into normal gameplay so that I'm healing everytime I'm gap closing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

I probably won't even bother with Adaptation, and will instead try and work the cloud usage into normal gameplay so that I'm healing everytime I'm gap closing.

Yeah, ill see the survivability once i get my hands on him. Probably wont need it with that much armor.

Did they mention the deluxe? I heard rework this week and didnt pay attention to the skin.

Only bummer to me is the passive, really lackluster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

I heard rework this week and didnt pay attention to the skin

I heard something about next week? Might have been talking about the deluxe then.

4 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

Only bummer to me is the passive, really lackluster.

I reckon it should be kept, but he should also get an additional one. Inaros for example has two passives. One for reviving, one for healing. There is precedent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I reckon it should be kept, but he should also get an additional one. Inaros for example has two passives. One for reviving, one for healing. There is precedent

Yeah the death cheat is fine. 3 uses with no way to regain is bad with only a 2s invul time. Don't care for any of the buffs, such low duration. Another passive would be cool, preferably something that you can keep on long missions. I feel like if you are dying with the cloud and armor buff anyways, 3x 2s deatch cheats wont make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

Yeah the death cheat is fine. 3 uses with no way to regain is bad with only a 2s invul time. Don't care for any of the buffs, such low duration. Another passive would be cool, preferably something that you can keep on long missions. I feel like if you are dying with the cloud and armor buff anyways, 3x 2s deatch cheats wont make a difference.

Eh, 2s is enough to cast the cloud.

You get a window to cast your heal+reposition, and likely segue into keeping up your other survival tools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...