Why all the negativity?

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

I take back everything positive I said about this game: I just lost over an hour of loot in an Arbitration and I'm steaming.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

1 hour ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Maybe it's the years of half baked "content" releases

Yeah, between the kuva lich RNG grind and the railjack RNG grind and lack of any meaningful story progression, it really does seem like DE is heading down a very dark path which I won't follow them on for very much longer. I'll give them a few more months next year before I throw in the towel. They've really ramped up their grind lately and I don't like it.

[dwqrf]

People are going to voice their complaints on forums, while the people enjoying it, don't; because they are busy playing.

People forget that WE are the beta tester. Of course this is a buggy mess, but it's playable, and will be even more playable with time. I don't know how you guys can't understand the complexity of such gamemode, from the devs point of view, and the doors it opens for the gameplay in the future.

Railjack is welcomed. It's great. Now, it's not perfect, and maybe as buggy as anything new DE does, but i'm glad it's here.

[Fire2box]

1 hour ago, Rivyn said:

Can't we at least give it a week before claiming the game is doomed?

Ah yes the fallacy of "We can't possibly talk about ____ because there hasn't been enough ____ time. "

also I have no idea how you can be enjoying the random rolls that can be like 300% difference in strength, on the same engines, on the same shields. Seriously, why is Warframe now a gacha game? 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Fire2box

[KnightOwl_]

I’m disappointed.  I was told how great the community was in this game When I started and the “veterans” are the same collective of whiny never happy malcontents that plagued every other game I played.  Negativity and gamer go hand in hand. 

[Mr.Fluffins]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

 

@Mr.Fluffins I think that's a bit of a disingenuous way to frame it. People voice their opinions because that's how they feel. There may be some attention seeking trolls in the crowd, but I think a lot of them have a vision for how they want Warframe to be, and want to see the game live up to it's potential.

 

I specifically mentioned that actual well-constructed feedback with some thought put into it is more than welcome, but when people create threads like "this is the death of warframe" every single time they personally don't like something, they are either drama baiting, or have psychological issues.

For example, while I like some aspects of the Lich system and could see how a lot of effort went into it, I also personally believe that this system is a lot of unspent potential. Did I make a rage thread while foaming from my mouth? No, I collected my thoughts, and wrote a post on the feedback forums.

When PoE and Fortuna came out, I wasn't particularly excited since I simply did not care for open worlds in Warframe... Did I write an emo poem about how terrible everything is and how it is a waste of resources? No, because as a rational human being I realized that, just because I personally don't find something fun, doesn't mean it isn't for others, and if I don't really have ideas for improvement that are realistic for implementation, I should say just that, that I am personally not interested.

In general it is very difficult to take such "forum outrage" threads seriously, since I still remember the first "forum" reaction to Second Dream. Nowadays everyone praises Second Dream as one of the best content expansions ever for Warframe, but you know what kind of threads were on the forums? Here is the summary:

Spoiler

"WAIT, I WAS JUST A LAME KID THIS WHOLE TIME????? AND THE KID MODE BARELY DOES ANYTHING??? DE YOU ARE THE WORST UNINSTALLING NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

There were positive threads of course, I was simply giving an example of how the "forum community" can negatively overreact even to the almost universally loved Warframe content.

TLDR: Proper feedback is absolutely fine. Rage threads with nothing but emotion based opinionated crap about a free expansion for a free game are at best attention seeking attempts, at worst signs of some psychological issues.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Mr.Fluffins

[Mr.Fluffins]

26 minutes ago, OmegaDonut said:

I’m disappointed.  I was told how great the community was in this game When I started and the “veterans” are the same collective of whiny never happy malcontents that plagued every other game I played.  Negativity and gamer go hand in hand. 

Just avoid the forums when the new content comes out, it happens almost every single time. Actual in-game community is really good, some of the best F2P communities in fact.

[Ayures]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I specifically mentioned that actual well-constructed feedback with some thought put into it is more than welcome, but when people create threads like "this is the death of warframe" every single time they personally don't like something, they are either drama baiting, or have psychological issues.

For example, while I like some aspects of the Lich system and could see how a lot of effort went into it, I also personally believe that this system is a lot of unspent potential. Did I make a rage thread while foaming from my mouth? No, I collected my thoughts, and wrote a post on the feedback forums.

When PoE and Fortuna came out, I wasn't particularly excited since I simply did not care for open worlds in Warframe... Did I write an emo poem about how terrible everything is and how it is a waste of resources? No, because as a rational human being I realized that, just because I personally don't find something fun, doesn't mean it isn't for others, and if I don't really have ideas for improvement that are realistic for implementation, I should say just that, that I am personally not interested.

In general it is very difficult to take such "forum outrage" threads seriously, since I still remember the first "forum" reaction to Second Dream. Nowadays everyone praises Second Dream as one of the best content expansions ever for Warframe, but you know what kind of threads were on the forums? Here is the summary: "WAIT, I WAS JUST A LAME KID THIS WHOLE TIME????? AND THE KID MODE BARELY DOES ANYTHING??? DE YOU ARE THE WORST UNINSTALLING NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!" There were positive threads of course, I was simply giving an example of how the "forum community" can negatively overreact even to the almost universally loved Warframe content.

TLDR: Proper feedback is absolutely fine. Rage threads with nothing but emotion based opinionated crap about a free expansion for a free game are at best attention seeking attempts, at worst signs of some psychological issues.

Tater tots are still dumb and I hate any time I have to press 5.

People get mad about things they don't really like being put into the game because they'd rather have things put into the game they like. Railjack is going to be dead and avoided in a few months just like archwing anyway. Hopefully by then we'll get content worth playing.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Ayures

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

1 hour ago, Uan91 said:

You wouldn't flame your friends if they give you a cake for your birthday that you don't like, so you shouldn't flame a company for delivering a not perfect update for a game that you play for free. You don't like It? Leave it.

THIS IS HOW FREE TO PLAY WORKS.

The only fault DE has don Is raising the bar too high with older updates.

 

Your friend gives you a cake, because they like you, they enjoy your company, etc.

A Company gives you content because they like your time and money (emphasis on "money"). It's what keeps them from falling into bankruptcy or irrelevancy. And if that company can't be arsed to give you something worthwhile, then what makes them worthy of my time, much less my cash? Just because something is free, it doesn't mean it should be half-assed and and exempt from criticisms.

Edited December 14, 2019 by (PS4)The1stAzrael
corrections

[Rivyn]

@Fire2box I didn't say anything against 'talking' about the update. My issue is that the update wasn't even 24 hours old before the forum was crammed with 'Woe is me, I don't like the update' threads, which just contained the usual 'I don't like this, so the game must be dying.' That isn't constructive, that's whining. Now two days out, and these threads are still popping up. Again, nothing against discussion, but when an update is still fresh, still full of bugs, still open for improvement, and the devs haven't even been given a week to iron issues out, then I get annoyed. Take it as you will.

As for the gacha, sure, I can agree with you. But then, I also realize that we had a similar issue with kuva weapons, and just a few days after that release, DE input the system that lets us merge to gain the better stats. I have no doubt they'll implement something similar for Railjack gear. Why it wasn't already a thing, I don't know, that's on DE. But I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. 

[PyrrhoOfElis]

It's understandable once you realize that they probably aren't going to fix any of the gameplay problems. People are negative about it on release because it's a done deal and likely won't receive any changes outside of bug fixes for only the most game breaking things or exploits.

2 hours ago, Uan91 said:

You wouldn't flame your friends if they give you a cake for your birthday that you don't like, so you shouldn't flame a company for delivering a not perfect update for a game that you play for free. You don't like It? Leave it.

THIS IS HOW FREE TO PLAY WORKS.

The only fault DE has don Is raising the bar too high with older updates.

 

No, that's now how it works. The game isn't free. They aren't doing any of this for free.

[OmegaVoid]

23 minutes ago, Rivyn said:

I also realize that we had a similar issue with kuva weapons, and just a few days after that release, DE input the system that lets us merge to gain the better stats.

Perhaps a lot of player who buy Plat spend a lot of it on potatoes and Forma? I know I do.

Originally the Kuva weapons weren't going to give Mastery, but that changed. I'm guessing because the devs realised some players wouldn't be interested in the weapon itself, so it needed that extra hook to incentivise investing.

At 5 Forma per weapon to max-rank it, that's a big investment... but I guessing not many players were putting Forma on their 25% bonus Kuva weapons. They wanted to wait for a better (even best possible) version of the weapon to drop.

Valence Transfer means players can make that investment immediately, without feeling bilked if they get a better drop of the same weapon further down the line.

So it was good business sense for the devs to implement Valence Transfer ASAP.

29 minutes ago, Rivyn said:

I have no doubt they'll implement something similar for Railjack gear. Why it wasn't already a thing, I don't know, that's on DE. But I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. 

Does the Railjack situation as it is disincentivise Plat investment? If it doesn't there's no obvious motivation for the devs to make such a change, unless they begin to believe this particular aspect of the system is eventually causing players to actually abandon the game mode.

A lot of things in Railjack are bound to get re-jigged in light of ongoing experience, so what you suggest may happen, but I wouldn't make any predictions about this specific aspect.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

2 hours ago, Uan91 said:

You wouldn't flame your friends if they give you a cake for your birthday that you don't like, so you shouldn't flame a company for delivering a not perfect update for a game that you play for free. You don't like It? Leave it.

THIS IS HOW FREE TO PLAY WORKS.

The only fault DE has don Is raising the bar too high with older updates.

 

The only fault DE has don is raising the bar too high with older updates.

Or breaking their promises to their community, only giving 25 of updates. No new War this year.

 

Your friends dont want you to pay for the birthday cake...  and for most of us it’s not free.

You don't like it? Leave it.  Yes great business strategy.  From the school of the white knight.

[Aleuvian]

3 hours ago, Rivyn said:

Empyrean hasn't even been out two full days, yet the forums have been consumed by 'doom and gloom' threads. We've had, what, two hotfixes for some bugs? Hasn't even been given a proper chance to settle, and already people are screaming that the sky is falling. Why? Most of it isn't even constructive criticism, just 'I don't like this, thus Warframe must be dying.' Maybe I'm just biased, since I really enjoy the release, but I like to think I can see things somewhat objectively. Can't we at least give it a week before claiming the game is doomed?

It's mostly the issues relating to the sporadic releases, buggy releases and releases almost never living up to the hype DE plays them up to.

This Empyrean release, for example, has been being hyped for nearly a full year and now that it's released, it has almost none of the features we saw in any of the devstreams or the Tennocon trailer. It's all the same mission copy-pasted across three nodes.

Spoiler

The patch notes even say there is a mystery in the Veil Proxima that will change everything when you get there, and there is nothing there. Just more Grineer.

 

Personally, I love the release, but ultimately it didn't live up to the expectation. I had a lot of fun with Railjack and it was genuinely engaging gameplay, unlike the other "mash 4 to win" missions that are available. Unfortunately, it just doesn't feel fleshed out in any way and it makes me wonder what they've been working on all this time if this is supposed to be the Phase 2 release, unless the Phase 3 release is supposed to be the "real Railjack for real this time guys we promise".

[Anthraxicus]

2 hours ago, Countess_Hapmuhr said:

Yeah, between the kuva lich RNG grind and the railjack RNG grind and lack of any meaningful story progression, it really does seem like DE is heading down a very dark path which I won't follow them on for very much longer. I'll give them a few more months next year before I throw in the towel. They've really ramped up their grind lately and I don't like it.

And they found a stealthier way to ramp up the grind even more: RNG stats on weapons. They had learned that garbage from Kuva weapons and implemented it on Empyrean, despite all of the negativity in Old Blood, proving that they don't listen and making us lose all hope that they will ever learn. I am finding myself less and less inclined to even launch the game with each new update. I am trying really hard to give them a pass with Empyrean, but I just can't bring myself to play it unless they tone down the grind a lot, which I don't think will happen.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Anthraxicus

[Midas]

This forums is a place to complain for no reason. 

That is all.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Anthraxicus said:

And they found a stealthier way to ramp up the grind even more: RNG stats on weapons. They had learned that garbage from Kuva weapons and implemented it on Empyrean, despite all of the negativity in Old Blood, proving that they don't listen and making us lose all hope that they will ever learn. I am finding myself less and less inclined to even launch the game with each new update. I am trying really hard to give them a pass with Empyrean, but I just can't bring myself to play it unless they tone down the grind a lot, which I don't think will happen.

I don't remember anyone complaining about random rolls on Kuva weapons honestly. 

I remember people complaining about every other layer of RNG, which was fair mind you, but Kuva Liches having randomly rolled weapons was, at worst, a modifier on the other complaints. As in "it makes this grind really bad if you're going through RNG hell already just to get another shot at a roll". Empyrean doesn't have anything like that - you acquire found loot without any extra RNG, so none of the layers of RNG the liches had -  I find it curious that people are now saying that DE haven't learned from the Lich system because of one of the few things that people weren't making a big deal about on the Forums about it is implemented. Also consider how goddamn popular Rivens are.

In fact, Empyrean seems to do much of what people wanted from Fortuna and Liches - it's got markedly less RNG than Liches primarily through the fact it has far fewer RNG layers, and no timegating through standing like Fortuna, two of the biggest grind-based complaints in recent memory AFAIK.

Also consider that one of the biggest complaints is a 'lack of sustainable content', which from my experience has often been talked about alongside the removal Tower system - a huge grind. The idea being that a large grind that you can always come back to is often used as sustainable content, because there's always something to do - as opposed to a one-and-done system. That usually takes the form of RNG - towers had RNG through incredibly diluted lootpools, but most games use random rolls, since with rolls you can either look for a godroll or for the perfect roll for something you're putting together. In fact, the re-introduction of random rolls was seen as a huge win for Destiny with Forsaken, since one of the (many) things people complained about with vanilla Destiny was the lack of such a system.

What this all boils down to is - DE is learning. As it turns out, there isn't a 'right' answer for them to learn. At times, feedback is outright contradictory.

 

Of significant note: I don't use rivens outside of very particular circumstances. I don't particularly care for Random Rolls. But this perspective that DE isn't learning just seems... misplaced.

(lastly, this tweet from Rebb indicating wreckage is on the agenda:)

Spoiler

 

 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

(lastly, this tweet from Rebb indicating wreckage is on the agenda:)

I really hope they intend to address the durability issues for low level missions too.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, Rivyn said:

Why all the negativity?

Because being an edgelord is "cool". 

[(PSN)JohhnyRVL]

So those who are pro-Empyrean what exactly are excited about?

I doubt the complains are for the bugs, the complains are mainly for the fact that the grand release offers nothing beside a glorified Archwing (which is probably the least used feature/mechanic in the entire game)

0 Lore, 0 New things, the same pattern of un-linked game modes.

I'm more dissapointed than frustrated to be honest.

[Proffebolter]

hace 3 horas, Mr.Fluffins dijo:

I specifically mentioned that actual well-constructed feedback with some thought put into it is more than welcome, but when people create threads like "this is the death of warframe" every single time they personally don't like something, they are either drama baiting, or have psychological issues.

For example, while I like some aspects of the Lich system and could see how a lot of effort went into it, I also personally believe that this system is a lot of unspent potential. Did I make a rage thread while foaming from my mouth? No, I collected my thoughts, and wrote a post on the feedback forums.

When PoE and Fortuna came out, I wasn't particularly excited since I simply did not care for open worlds in Warframe... Did I write an emo poem about how terrible everything is and how it is a waste of resources? No, because as a rational human being I realized that, just because I personally don't find something fun, doesn't mean it isn't for others, and if I don't really have ideas for improvement that are realistic for implementation, I should say just that, that I am personally not interested.

In general it is very difficult to take such "forum outrage" threads seriously, since I still remember the first "forum" reaction to Second Dream. Nowadays everyone praises Second Dream as one of the best content expansions ever for Warframe, but you know what kind of threads were on the forums? Here is the summary:

  Revelar contenido oculto

"WAIT, I WAS JUST A LAME KID THIS WHOLE TIME????? AND THE KID MODE BARELY DOES ANYTHING??? DE YOU ARE THE WORST UNINSTALLING NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"

There were positive threads of course, I was simply giving an example of how the "forum community" can negatively overreact even to the almost universally loved Warframe content.

TLDR: Proper feedback is absolutely fine. Rage threads with nothing but emotion based opinionated crap about a free expansion for a free game are at best attention seeking attempts, at worst signs of some psychological issues.

OBJECTION! *Phoenyx style*

Even making a well-crafted thread, with a constructive critique of what he does not like about the game or the problems of the game. Do you know what happens after creating it? That comes here, the defending gentlemen. (I will not point out the finger) They say: "If you do not like the game, then go to another game" "Thanks for an F2P (Free to Play) game", etc., etc.

If there is something we don't like, we say it loud and clear, or do you want this to become the Gag Law, and that no one can give an opinion, suggest or even express ourselves? What not? We all have the right to comment, whether bad or good about the game.

Look at what happened with Old Blood, they said a lot in the forums that they did not like this update because of the RNG they had and in addition to other things. Do we do it for trolling? No. Basically we express something through the forums to make our opinions known to other people.

There have already been mixed opinions from many people, if that happens, something really doesn't work well. 99 positive opinions and 1 negative opinions are not the same. That there are 50 positive and 50 negative opinions. And here I ask again Do we do it for trolling? No

And here many people confuse the term "trolling" and make a destructive criticism.

But do you know why many people get angry? It's basically, because the Staff, they don't listen to them.

And right now they are making the same mistakes

And if now we go into detail, of ....... as for example: Why have many game veterans gone? And yes, they have left a lot. If you put yourself in the shoes of the veteran people who are gone, you will know exactly what the problem is.

There have already been mixed opinions from many people, if that happens, something really doesn't work well. 99 positive opinions and 1 negative opinions are not the same. That there are 50 positive and 50 negative opinions. And here I ask again Do we do it for trolling? No

And here many people confuse the term "trolling" and make a destructive criticism.

But do you know why many people get angry? It's basically, because the Staff, they don't listen to them.

And right now, they are making the same mistakes, as the previous times.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Proffebolter
add information

[Anthraxicus]

48 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I don't remember anyone complaining about random rolls on Kuva weapons honestly. 

I remember people complaining about every other layer of RNG, which was fair mind you, but Kuva Liches having randomly rolled weapons was, at worst, a modifier on the other complaints. As in "it makes this grind really bad if you're going through RNG hell already just to get another shot at a roll". Empyrean doesn't have anything like that - you acquire found loot without any extra RNG, so none of the layers of RNG the liches had -  I find it curious that people are now saying that DE haven't learned from the Lich system because of one of the few things that people weren't making a big deal about on the Forums about it is implemented. Also consider how goddamn popular Rivens are.

In fact, Empyrean seems to do much of what people wanted from Fortuna and Liches - it's got markedly less RNG than Liches primarily through the fact it has far fewer RNG layers, and no timegating through standing like Fortuna, two of the biggest grind-based complaints in recent memory AFAIK.

Also consider that one of the biggest complaints is a 'lack of sustainable content', which from my experience has often been talked about alongside the removal Tower system - a huge grind. The idea being that a large grind that you can always come back to is often used as sustainable content, because there's always something to do - as opposed to a one-and-done system. That usually takes the form of RNG - towers had RNG through incredibly diluted lootpools, but most games use random rolls, since with rolls you can either look for a godroll or for the perfect roll for something you're putting together. In fact, the re-introduction of random rolls was seen as a huge win for Destiny with Forsaken, since one of the (many) things people complained about with vanilla Destiny was the lack of such a system.

What this all boils down to is - DE is learning. As it turns out, there isn't a 'right' answer for them to learn. At times, feedback is outright contradictory.

 

Of significant note: I don't use rivens outside of very particular circumstances. I don't particularly care for Random Rolls. But this perspective that DE isn't learning just seems... misplaced.

(lastly, this tweet from Rebb indicating wreckage is on the agenda:)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Oh boy...You don't think Empyrean has RNG on weapons?

 

And you don't think RNG on stats is a bad thing? Geez

No. DE is not learning. Not one bit. Rushed content with a lot of grind, lots of bugs, tons of new resources to make people grind more, completely forgetting about old resources except when they put these worthless things as rewards for completing the new missions (2000 Ferrite at the end of a Railjack skirmish, what I disgraceful joke). Not only that, but every single one of the previous contents were hyped infinitely, then completely forgotten. Plains of Eidolon, Fortuna, ESO, Arbitration and so on. Hell, where is the third Orb Mother fight? I fear Empyrean will suffer the same fate. 

No. They are not learning. And the devstream when people asked about Old Blood proves it. They have no plans to do anything.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Part of it is self hype and the fault of the people themselves. Soon as I saw Railjack I was scratching my head wondering why people were hyped over archwing when the maps were so barren as far as people actually playing them. Then I thought maybe they were actively making improvements or addressing arching and giving it an overhaul and from what I've seen nope. So while people hyped themselves up, DE has a hand in this as they've pushed content no one seemed to be really pleading for without fixing content that heavily revolves around it to maybe fix what didn't work when it dropped.

[VanFanel1980mx]

I don't know what you are talking about, 99% of the playerbase worships DE, just because you read a few criticisms doesn't mean there is "so much negativity", you are just blowing it out of proportion, I guess this can happen when you are used to all the praise and love for the game from the vast majority of the community, you become too sensitive to the slightest change in tone.

[844448]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I really hope they intend to address the durability issues for low level missions too.

My ship is durable enough with hull weave. If those things are tradeable I can give you one