The absence of randomized stats was what set Warframe apart

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

For random rolled equipment to be a good time you need to get flooded with it. Borderlands gets away with it because loot is literally exploding out of enemies. RJ doesnt do that currently and that's what makes it feel so horrible. You finally get your 2% vidar reactor but actually you didnt because it's minimal roll and the game pretty much just pretended to give you something but didnt actually. The available variance is too high for the amount that drops. On top of that it's a really bad feeling if your squad finally gets a good reactor but unfortunately you werent lucky enough so yours is trash so you have to keep farming while everyone else is done. Curiosly this was a thing in the early times of warframe and DE agreed that it was bad and changed it. So now they made the same mistake but this time in space (same with the railjack's stamina bar).

The key difference to Borderlands and Diablo is that in those games the random loot you get is instantly usable. In warframe you have to spend resources, quite a lot actually on wreckage. Even worse you dont get all your resources back if you scrap it because you found a purely better version. Meaning you actually get punished for repairing a non optimal version. Either wreckage needs to have fixed stats or they need to drop in working condition and in greater amounts.

People love to say that but keep forgetting that 99% of the drops in the Borderlands games are utter crap, so are the affix/suffix combo possibilities on the desired weapons aswell.

And for that matter, Diablo also requires you to grind materials in order to get better items. Yes the drop may be usable when it drops, but that doesnt change that it is mostly worse than what you have even if you only have a middle of the pack roll on your equipped item. The wreckage cost is nothing compared to D3 because you can see here if it is worth upgrading or not before spending mats. In D3 you shove mats into a cube and hope that Lootcifer will help block RNGsus from screwing you over for a 100th time in a row. Plus you get the mats in RJ modes as you simply play them, in D3 you need to do content that is so trivial that you fall asleep after the first material run of the day.

[Mephane]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

If there was a more even spread of House drops and the repair time was like a tenth or less of what it currently is, I don't think I'd have any qualms with this system.

The only way the RNG stats would be acceptable is without having to repair them *at all*. Having to spend materials and wait some time to be allowed to use the item drops just doesn't work - either the items are a resource and time investment like Warframe gear and mods usually is, then they need to be a one-time deal with fixed stats. Or we are supposed to loot different versions with different RNG stats over and over to find an upgrade, then they must be usable right away at no extra cost.

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

That makes me sad.

That DE is copying games with much larger user bases? This is hipster nonsense. I liked Warframe before it had any chance of being popular...

[M3tallius]

I agree with the OP that I always loved that about warframe. Your talent and hard work were directly proportional to how big the numbers you could throw up on screen were. This RNG system is not for me. That being said, I don't mind that they added it to a compartmentalized portion of the game. It's content that's not for me, and that's ok. I've only done one run of each of the earth missions, by and large have no clue what's going on, I just run around putting out fires and taking out the command ships of whatever they're called and the pugs I'm with seem to get through the missions. Anytime I'm not doing that, we seem to fail, so not sure if that's on me or them, but I'm not interested in engaging with the system too heavily in order to find out either, thanks to the RNG. The OP is entirely accurate in his assessment, in my opinion and my hat is off to him. That being said, it's content that's not FOR ME, and that's ok. I have the rest of the game and I'm glad many people are getting to enjoy this new addition. Every expansion doesn't have to be about ME, as long as our community is growing and moving forward together. Also, can we please just shoot the pay to win screamers in their digital heads? Cordon them off to their own version of the game world where they can echo their rants off of each other and then slowly fade away? They won't know any difference, just instance them together. Add a "p2w" tag to their usernames and they only get partied up with other p2w criers. They'll feel good with all the validation they get from standing around complaining and the rest of us can proceed, getting the community back on track like it used to be. ;-0

Edited December 27, 2019 by M3tallius

[Wolfdoggie]

Rivens are both a boon and a curse. Considering how my main weapon has one so good it devalues all other weapons in that category but annialates entire planets and civilizations in a single hit. I used to be able to swap freely to most any weapon, as long as it wasn't outdated trash. But now I just stick to the ones I have strong rivens for and am rarely excited for new weapons than I used to be. But on the other hand some weapons were just immense catestropic trash and 100% needed any decent riven to be useable. It still doesn't save weapons with both low crit and status usually though.

As for Railjack the RNG is just braindead. Zetki is 99% of the drops and stat ranges are given massive gaps. You just swim through garbage forever till you hit the lottery. At least imperfect rivens could be useful and easy to obtain and alter. Imagine if Rivens were untradeable and rerolling them required 300k Kuva and a 15 hour wait.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Wolfdoggie

[Sir-Swerving]

Get rid of the RNG stats for salvaged gear, Add more house types and give the houses actually good benefits and trade-offs to make them semi-competitive with each-other, Kuva Lich weapons were pushing it already, But at least those only had one random stat and could be spliced with another weapon of the same type, Railjack has no such benefit.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Sir-Swerving

[Mr.Fluffins]

I dislike RNG stat items and believe that they should have no place in this game (yeah including rivens).

On a side note, even if the random items (reactor, shield, engines) had their lowest stats capped at the sigma (clan research) values, they would still be worthless since they provide the same performance as the sigma items but cost more, unless you get an amazing side effect bonus...

[TiltingTenno]

3 hours ago, Lord-Childeric said:

Reactor, Oh my god yes there the random stats are a huge deal ^^ Farming vidar reactor for a 90+ roll is a big oof... But at least when it drops you are f**ing happy.

You kind of just proved the OP's point right here. Some games rely upon this lottery roll drop system and the players are okay with it.  Warframe players have been attracted to Warframe precisely because it did NOT require this.

What is the average expected, and nearly guaranteed (99%, 99.9%, and 99.99%), drop rates for a 90+ avionics reactor? 

[Vyra]

Well, i don't get why people need the endgame equip just in the first few runs...
It feels okay to get the Space Battle stuff slowly, this way i have reasons to go there over and over again...

Hell no one has rank 10 yet and they complain about not having ALL best stuff already.. okay...

And how is this even DE being greedy for money? you cant buy Vidar/Zetki Reactor MK III in the Market ...

Edited December 27, 2019 by Vyra

[SordidDreams]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

People love to say that but keep forgetting that 99% of the drops in the Borderlands games are utter crap, so are the affix/suffix combo possibilities on the desired weapons aswell.

The logical end point of this is Path of Exile, which is unplayable without loot filters that effectively remove 99.9% of the RNG crap that drops. I find it fascinating that people actually applaud that as good game design instead of questioning why that RNG even needs to be there then.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

The logical end point of this is Path of Exile, which is unplayable without loot filters that effectively remove 99.9% of the RNG crap that drops. I find it fascinating that people actually applaud that as good game design instead of questioning why that RNG even needs to be there then.

Very good point.

I was about to go blind before grabbing a loot filter when playing PoE, it was just horrible. And the fun thing is, even with a "soft" filter, you go from a screen litterally covered in loot from corner to corner down to having maybe 10 equipment items and some materials being displayed. That means the game is majorly filled with trash and even if you are a low level those items are considered trash. If you put in an endgame filter with slight modofication to more fit your specific build you'll go from a fully covered screen down to maybe 2 items and barely a handful of mats.

And that isnt even at endgame levels. I think I had to get my filter by the time I hit level 40 or something.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Part of the appeal of Warframe for me was the fact that you didn't have to worry about grinding a mission a million times to get a god roll - once you got the gun you wanted, once you got the mods you wanted, that was it. You could move on and proceed with the game. It wasn't that bad of a grind. Once you finally got Heavy Caliber from the Orokin Derelict, you never had to try to get a better version of it. You never got stuck farming The Sergeant on Phobos for the perfect Mag Chassis after getting getting dozens of inferior versions. Sure, you might get a little stuck trying to get the item in the first place, but it was rarely an issue, and once you got it, you had it. Riven Mods were a surprise, but they are very optional, and at least have the neat feature of being able to pick which roll to keep when you reroll them. Also, since Kuva is so plentiful, it's not really that much of a grind anyway if you're hunting the perfect roll. Kuva weapons... well, aside from all the glaring, blatant flaws with the Lich system, you can at least replace the bonus with a better one if you find a better one, and more importantly, Kuva weapons are just a handful of special weapons that only exist as a special bonus to a certain branch of the game. Railjack stuff is very, very different.

Railjack's randomized stats are a big deal because they are a part of every aspect of Railjack. Reactors, weapons, and avionics (to a lesser degree) all have different variations, you can get 10 Bulkheads without getting a good Bulkhead. Imagine doing a ton of Void Fissures, finally getting that Loki Prime Systems, but it's a cruddy Lavan instead of a glorious Zetki. Beyond the Sigma Series, all Railjack components have totally random stats bonuses that cannot be transferred to already-owned versions, and they have wildly different ranges in their possible stat values. You could get dozens of terrible Reactors before you get one that has enough to put on all the Avionics you need. If Railjack worked like the rest of the game, there would be no randomization at all. Railjack isn't "in tune" with the rest of the game, it's an entirely different flavor of grind. The three different Houses should be all the variation there is. With the new system, Railjack is 10x of a bigger grind. The lack of random stats is a big reason why I prefer Warframe over other games like Destiny and Borderlands, but now it seems DE has decided to just copy their competitor's approach to game design. That makes me sad.

I agree with this 100%. All of it. 

 

Borderlands/destiny AFAIK only had slight variations anyway, and even if they didnt you could roll the dice again reasonably efficiently. 

 

But super low chance to get the item at all + not able to roll the dice efficiently + chance roll will be poop? Bruh that's 3 layers of struggle. 

[z3us32610]

On 2019-12-27 at 4:58 AM, Anduvriel said:

That problem is entirely in your mind. 

You can craft everything from dojo with zero random stats and grind just mods which are not random at all, there are just 3 houses, each with its different version of the mod, but grind works the same as for heavy caliber, once you get the avionics from the house you want the grind has ended. 

You will say, but the opie damage from best weapons and almost no tradeoffs with best reactors i must have them. No you don't.

Imagine a game where the power creep has gone so nuts, that even the most powerfull enemies in it are oneshot not once, but 1000 times over and there is a lot of overdamage left.

This is a terrible place to create a fun experience. There is very limited fun in one shoting everything always and that state lasted for so long its really hard to change it. Every even slightest nerf community goes on high alert. It turned out that a big part of the community wants excatly this, to be overpowered beyond limits. 

DE want to please all of the groups that play warframe. So they are trying an idea, lets make an experience based on how we feel will be balanced. What we feel will provide challenge and most fun. And than add something for hardcores with opness to skip content. 

So normally you will have to actually think about the mods you put, you will have to shoot more than one bullet to kill something and so on. Lets call that the basis of railjack experience. You grab best dojo stuff, grab all the mods from missions and have fun. The cost of that experience will be the lowest of them all and it will not include any random stat grind. Just the usual warframe resource grind.

And thats how it works, how the base is set up. 

Now we have those hardcores to please. They will have everything in 2 weeks and will totally lose interest cause they will not feel powerful enough for those hours they dish out. Lets give them a grindfest that works in more hardcore games so they will feel more powerful than other groups, but will have to grind their lives for it. Thats what random stats are for. They are not only aquired as 2% reward (very rare in warframe), but also incorporate a skewed to bottom numbers, high range random stats that vary from utter shyt to ungodly. 

You can say you don't like that aproach, that you feel obliged to enter the grindfest, but you actually don't. I kinda want to see this "trial" to go through, to see how it pans out. Its been two weeks only, give it some time.. 

This is an extremely reasonable assessment of how DE is trying to please the most possible people. 

Bravo, my friend. Well said. 👏👏

[Ice_Peck]

On 2019-12-27 at 7:03 AM, Vyra said:

And thus the map fills with emptiness because no one ever needs to go back there....
 

like almost everything in the game...
 

Welcome to Endgame...

none of the Drops are needed in any way...
you don't miss anything out not having them except for some extra damage...

i have none of these shiny things, void hole etc.. but i never needed them anyway...
we go as 2 people into the Veil. 1-5 shot enemies ( mostly 1-3 ) in space, ground combat is a bit more difficult but for that we have melee i guess...


So what are you complaining about?
Just avoid the stuff you don't like and focus on the things that appeal to you...
DE has reasons to add it the way it is...
 

Tl;dr -- "I'm defending bad game design because I don't respect myself or my time! :D"

[Teridax68]

There's this particularly revelatory bit in the community post concerning Railjack:

On 2019-12-18 at 10:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

There is a constant struggle between making sure players feel like there is always a worthwhile reward to seek out, versus the ‘done and moved on’ mentality.

This is what DE thinks of their own content. They don't see additions to Warframe as some building block towards a bigger, deeper game, they see them as little bits of gameplay to consume, then abandon. This is why we've gotten random stats on Kuva weapons, random stats on Railjack loot, and even Riven mods, in addition to all of the multiple layers of heavy grinding layered on top, because DE's approach so far hasn't been to try to integrate content better, but to pad it out as much as possible. To some extent their assessment is true, because we do consume then abandon content (including a whole lot of weapons that we rank up, then throw away), but then again this is also a problem of DE's own design: we abandon content because most content now is isolated, and gives us no reason to replay it once we get the rewards therein. Most weapons are MR fodder, including previously top-tier weapons, because DE insists on selling new weapons through power creep.

The devs have effectively pushed themselves into a corner by making their content much more short-lived than it needs to be, but rather than address the systemic issues behind those problems, namely by tying together the game's many islands of content, addressing balance so that more than a handful of weapon types can shine, fixing some long-standing design issues with systems like IPS or armor, etc., they've apparently chosen to Diablo-ize their game, by releasing randomly-statted loot in order to make players replay for the same item. Trouble is, Diablo-style loot only works in games that constantly shower the player in items, because the point to RNG loot is to constantly sift through it to find a standout piece, without spending any large amount of time between individual items dropping. By contrast, Warframe makes the player grind for any individual item, including in Railjack, which creates this particularly unsatisfying gameplay loop where the player spends inordinate amounts of time grinding towards a single reward... only to get one that may be worse than what they already have. Coupled with a complete lack of pity rolls or other usual protections against awful RNG, and the result is a reward system that almost feels like it's punishing the player for playing, by making them grind more for less valuable rewards. It has not gone down well, and is likely to only worsen in the future.

Thus, rather than rush head-first into their next big release, which at this stage is almost certainly going to be watered down and rushed along the development pipeline, DE needs to take some time to connect all of the dots they've thrown out in their own game. There are plenty of ways of making us replay content that don't involve cheapening our rewards, namely by actually integrating existing content into our regular activities: there are plenty of mission types that don't feature at all in Sorties, for example, including the entirety of Orb Vallis free roaming, all because DE did not give themselves the time to hook that stuff in, even though they did for Disruption and the Plains of Eidolon. There are a lot of weapons that are MR fodder not just because of imprecisions in balance, but because during their last balance pass DE decided they were going to arrange weapons along MR progression, and make most low-MR weapons weaker than the rest as a result. Many warframes and builds are struggling not simply because of changes to the metagame, but because of known bugs that have never been resolved, such as many newer enemies ignoring invisibility entirely. Were DE to tie those missions in, abandon a model of balance that forcibly turns a huge portion of the arsenal into fodder, and take a serious look at the bug fixes and QoL improvements they could implement across the board (and there are a lot out there), the game would already become much more replayable, potentially at an even lesser cost than if attempting to do the same via a new release. We don't need our new items to be randomly stronger or weaker than themselves to achieve longevity, and the sooner we abandon that suicidal approach to new content, the better.

[ixidron92]

Other than Chinese gatchas, no serious MMO uses randomized stats. All have random loot for sure, but not randomized stats. 

[SneakyErvin]

35 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Other than Chinese gatchas, no serious MMO uses randomized stats. All have random loot for sure, but not randomized stats. 

First off, this isnt an MMO. Secondly, plenty of games comparable to WF, including serious MMO's include random stats and have done so for over 20 years.

Dark Age of Camelot is an old MMO that utilized random stats, even when it came to crafting. The difference between a 95% and 98%+ durability roll was massive. 95% was OK, but if you wanted to be competative you'd need a 98% roll atleast to stay even with others. Same deal for armors iirc, where lower durability ment lower protection.

Diablo 2 and 3, Path of Exile, Borderlands 1-3 and other games simialar to WF all run on heavy RNG stats on items, several layers of them in certain cases. Marvel Heroes repeated the old D2 formula aswell, which was just as enjoyable with variable stat ranges on all gear pieces.

Or those are suddenly not serious games?

[ixidron92]

hace 22 minutos, SneakyErvin dijo:

First off, this isnt an MMO. Secondly, plenty of games comparable to WF, including serious MMO's include random stats and have done so for over 20 years.

Dark Age of Camelot is an old MMO that utilized random stats, even when it came to crafting. The difference between a 95% and 98%+ durability roll was massive. 95% was OK, but if you wanted to be competative you'd need a 98% roll atleast to stay even with others. Same deal for armors iirc, where lower durability ment lower protection.

Diablo 2 and 3, Path of Exile, Borderlands 1-3 and other games simialar to WF all run on heavy RNG stats on items, several layers of them in certain cases. Marvel Heroes repeated the old D2 formula aswell, which was just as enjoyable with variable stat ranges on all gear pieces.

Or those are suddenly not serious games?

Never heard of Camelot, but that single example hardly qualifies.

D2 and D3 function way differently. For starters, you can modify the stats, there are sets with fixed stats, and the stats, while random, depend on the enemy level, not to mention, those games heavily rely much more on skill and abilities than gear, while Warframe depends entirely on gear for progression.

Borderlands, same as Diablo, showers you with gear, and there is much less emphasis on having good equipment, since most stuff just works for whatever. Not to mention, you were usually given enough gear as progression rewards or boss loot to continue playing without trouble and in any of those games the grind is remotely comparable with WF.

I can't comment of PoA since that's the only one I didn't play, but I'm guessing is similar to Diablo.

Warframe however, works like most MMOs (or used to work), where you're expected to grind an spend time, effort and resources for good equipment, guaranteed. Now you're expected to spend an outrageous amount of time grinding for a reward that might be worse than what you already have, or not, depends on RNG. Tying progression, TRULY tying progression to pure and insane RNG is indefensable bullsh*t.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I agree 100%. RNG stats are the opposite of what made me fall in love with Warframe. If hating this kind of content because I feel compelled to try and get max rolls somehow makes me an outlier and a weirdo, then I guess that's what I am.

[Vyra]

4 hours ago, Saberfrost said:

Tl;dr -- "I'm defending bad game design because I don't respect myself or my time! :D"

Well i enjoy my time doing railjack mission even if i do not get any loot at all ( which happened due to bugs ).

no idea why and for what people need those endgame equipment anyway...

[Corvid]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This is what DE thinks of their own content.

No, that's what the Community thinks of it, which DE happens to be aware of. For evidence, simply look at all of the cries of "Content drought" we've had this year alone.

[Teridax68]

2 minutes ago, Corvid said:

No, that's what the Community thinks of it, which DE happens to be aware of. For evidence, simply look at all of the cries of "Content drought" we've had this year alone.

But it's not just the community, though, because DE keeps releasing content in such a way that it still gets consumed, rather than integrated for permanent reuse. The Kuva Liches we were promised were an integrated, replayable system, for example, but were converted into a grindy, ultimately finite portion of content to only be played for the rewards. Railjack is in a similar state, having fallen from its initial promise of connection across the Origin System to essentially an additional set of Archwing missions, with nothing more to offer the player once its rewards are obtained until DE adds more content. Both of these releases were meant to be major expansions to the game and its replayability, but ended up being much like ESO and Arbitrations before them -- isolated, repetitive, and limited in replay value in spite of their grindiness. DE had the option to focus on replayability through integration and more permanent incentives outside of loot, but ultimately chose not to.

[ixidron92]

hace 1 minuto, Teridax68 dijo:

But it's not just the community, though, because DE keeps releasing content in such a way that it still gets consumed, rather than integrated for permanent reuse. The Kuva Liches we were promised were an integrated, replayable system, for example, but were converted into a grindy, ultimately finite portion of content to only be played for the rewards. Railjack is in a similar state, having fallen from its initial promise of connection across the Origin System to essentially an additional set of Archwing missions, with nothing more to offer the player once its rewards are obtained until DE adds more content. Both of these releases were meant to be major expansions to the game and its replayability, but ended up being much like ESO and Arbitrations before them -- isolated, repetitive, and limited in replay value in spite of their grindiness. DE had the option to focus on replayability through integration and more permanent incentives outside of loot, but ultimately chose not to.

Yeah, they promised integration. They showed us being able to call our railjack from the Vallis because a ship in orbit was bombarding us. They showed us being able to take the fight to the our lich by attacking their flagship. We were expecting railjack to unify the entire game, but in the end, it's just another island of content. Still, this is just phase 1. We're missing corpus enemies and many more features. We might get what was promised... maybe.

[Anduvriel]

2 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

Other than Chinese gatchas, no serious MMO uses randomized stats. All have random loot for sure, but not randomized stats. 

I dont know many succesful f2p looters to be honest, but i know Warframe and Path of Exile pretty well (more than 1k hours in both). I also played destiny 2 (around 200h), diablo 2 and 3 (1k hours+). 

Path of Exile - fully random loot with fully random stats (the very last boss, uber elder, can drop an item worse than an item you can get in the very first zone of the game). It is so bad now that almost none of the equipment you want to wear comes from your drop. Most of the important items are crafted or unique as they have limited rolls on stats (and some are static), the rares you buy from other people. My last char that finished blight with 24 challenges done (that was my goal) has only 1 ring dropped by me and it is the worst item he wears. Not only loot fully randomized, also content heavily locked behind rng. In PoE there is some random to the randomness of the random, its path of the randomised. 

Destiny 2 - random loot from a pool (associated usually with activity) with random mods changing sometimes drastically the way a weapon works with static stats of the base of weapon. It is hard to compare to warframe as all weapons in destiny 2 are far better balanced between eachother stat wise, thou mods are almost fully random. Its insanely hard to get the weapon you want with the exact mods you want on it, i have zero weapons (maybe few close) like that with 953pl last season. The mods can change a weapon from shyt to godly, so yeah its technically not a stat, but a mod that modifies stats, works same as random stats in my book. No content locked behind rng from what i know. 

Diablo 3 - not fully random loot with not fully random stats. Smart loot system prevents you to roll for different class most of the time (wizard will in 99% cases roll int not dex or str, but it can happen and you get items for your class the same way). Items that count (legendaries and set only primal/ancient/normal) roll up to 6 stats, 4 of them are crucial, 2 are considered secondary and not crucial, but its build dependant. Each stat rolled is from a semi-small pool which creates an image of item droping being usable outright especially since you can reroll one of them, but its only when you start up your character. After you complete the base of your build (all right legendaries and set items with most of the right stats - thats few hours) getting an upgrade can be a real pain and you need them. One season i was stuck with my monk on ~95gr for a really long time as i needed a certain weapon ancient+ with max legendary power roll (it rolled 5-7) to go higher. It took me around 500+ of those weapons rolls (an exorbitant amount of rolls, drops etc) to get an upgrade, i hate that cube. This is equivalent of 100 hours to get an upgrade that allowed me to push the content higher (my goal was to break 100gr and i did). So yeah random loot with random stats. Some content locked behind rng, but an optional one (being an achievment hunter is a pain). 

Warframe - 100% of everything that you might ever NEED to succesfully play any content comes from special spots you can farm with extremely high chances of success or outright get for resources that have extremely high chance to drop (getting necessasary frames, weapons, mods*). No content locked behind rng. 

To be completely honest warframe is the very definition of casual looter. They added one randomised grind for few (5) railjack parts that you can skip entirely (dojo stuff) without locking yourself from anything and hell broke lose.

I have never used nor seen in Path of Exile a perfect rare item (all t1 max rolls), its a freaking rainbow unicorn rare and i had fun for thousands of hours. I have no weapon i like with all the right mods in Destiny2 and i had hundreds of hours of fun, i have zero primal legendaries with all the right stats in diablo 3 and i had a lot of fun there as well. And whats important i never needed them to complete anything. 

You dont need that 100 avionics capacity reactor. Its in your head. 

I am a 28 mr with almost everything there is in warframe and i understand fully why they go outside their normal boundaries with their new content. I log in and hardly find suitable, engaging content for me.. They struggle to deliver something that i would not finish in a week and fun enough to keep me interested for longer.

I want them to try whatever they want to try to give me something more lasting, engaging and fun. I dont know if railjack will be it, but they have my ongoing permission to shake things up, change, try new things. If something doesn't change its dead. Recent years showed that giving same old bps for weapons and frames is just reviving ghosts not really adding life to the game. We need a change.. Allow them to try things, give them time at least to push out all of the related content (all 3 parts of rj) and than check foremost if its fun and engaging. The rest are details, even if that breaks your bubble of no random stats in warframe. 

[Hypernaut1]

I'm remember wanting randomized stats on mods before Rivens. Some of you may not remember, but modding was very stale back then.