A simple fix for the Hema Problem

[k05h]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

DE already said they weren't changing the Hema requirements to "respect those who already farmed it"

In a game where the only constant is change that argument never made any sense. When it comes to Kuva farming for rivens regular disrespect for those that do the farming in form of disposition changes does not matter. What about the Ignis Wraith that was farmed the hard way from competetive clans but is now on the regular Baro menue. 

Mutagen and Hema is the new universal vacuum even for pets. In the end it made even sense for DE to give pets vacuum. Hopefully in two or three years we just get another mutagen source or maybe a drop rate increase to spare new players that embarrasing argument of "respect". 

Edited January 9, 2020 by k05h

[Kaotyke]

The "fix" for the Hema thing is just to get rid of the Keys to access the Derelicts and let us PUG the damn place.

[LSG501]

22 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

The proposed, incredibly basic solution:

 

Increase the drop chance of Mutagen samples to that of the other resources.  This honestly might not even be necessary if you just take the main suggestion.

They already did this...

 

They're not going to do anything with it now that the majority of clans have done the research at the full cost.... so best you go start farming again.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, Kaotyke said:

The "fix" for the Hema thing is just to get rid of the Keys to access the Derelicts and let us PUG the damn place.

It would still be relatively empty.  There's zero reason for me to go there other than to farm Mutagen.  Just like most of the starchart is empty.  But if you're running fissures and there's infested, and they drop their respective faction material instead of arbitrarily dropping the planet's faction material, then suddenly there isn't a problem anymore because you're passively gaining Mutagen samples.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, LSG501 said:

so best you go start farming again.

So what's the point of you coming in to S#&$ on an idea and take that kind of tone with someone that has said nothing to you?  Is there one?  

[nslay]

21 hours ago, 844448 said:

Ever crossed your mind to loot those crates and lockers? I got most of my mutagen from there and I finished hema most if not all of the mutagen by myself just from strolling with nezha looting the place solo

Yep, they drop far more frequently from lockers and containers than from enemies. It's a complete waste of time to loot the enemies. I tried this with Khora and the Kavats are far too stupid to follow me to all the tricky places to scavenge open the locked lockers. So I relied mostly on Khora and her loot augment and I don't get as many as another Warframe with Master Thief just purely breaking containers/lockers. The only difference is that the Master Thief equipped Warframe can loot the place dry in about 10-20 minutes and extract. Khora with Kavats may need far more time to do that owing to the stupid Kavat AI. And even when lockers are right in front of you... they are usually too stupid and slow to open the locked ones. Purely ooting enemies with the loot augment yields basically nothing in 10-20 minutes by comparison.

[LSG501]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

So what's the point of you coming in to S#&$ on an idea and take that kind of tone with someone that has said nothing to you?  Is there one?  

Really you're upset by me saying the truth that they already buffed the drop rates and that DE won't be changing things so you need to go back to farming...

I could always ask you the question of why YOU feel you need special treatment of having the requirements reduced when plenty of other players/clans have managed to farm the resources without issue since it's release... yes it's higher than others but it was released 3 years ago after all....

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Join a clan that has the research done if you're going to complain repeatedly about not having the weapon research in your current clan.  This one weapon is 3K mastery, and it isn't some grand powerhouse weapon it's MR fodder for 99.9% of people the .1% are the people with really good hema rivens.  If your clan size is ghost or shadow, and you can't get your clan to go to the orokin derelict for half a day per member, your clan to be frank doesn't deserve the weapon.  If your clan went up to storm, mountain, or moon before finishing research I suggest you join a clan that is well organized because well organized clans don't neglect hema research before they start going up in size.  

[Volinus7]

Do you guys smell the "post sellout" topic? 

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

So to defend DE obvious mistake that can be fixed in 30 seconds we have :

P2W argument, buy a booster !

Time argument, it's to old to need a fix !

Parity argument, I have suffered to do it so you must suffer too !

Adaptation argument, if you do this and that voodoo tricks you will be able to surpass the problem !

Importance argument, as I have it already they are more important matters that I suffer from so DE needs to focus on those !

With those kind of friends you don't need enemies.

 

Edit, a late bonus ! If your clan cannot farm for it like a daily job then you doesn't deserve it, even if it's just a keyboard input mistake that is the beginning of all this. Wonderful.

Edited January 10, 2020 by (PS4)Herrwann69

[CaptainMinty]

As I see it, the Hema is 100% worth it. Slap Hema on a Nidus specter. Do it. Now suddenly everything has half health, you have more power strength, and the thing is unkillable. Seriously had a level ~50 specter in an endless with enemies at level 200. Thing would not die. And it killed things because Nidus does damage.

Basically, I say the Hema is worth the grind simply for making it a support weapon on a Nidus specter. Do I like the gun myself? No. But it does do wonders for a specter.

[Voltage]

22 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Funny how they have no such qualms when it comes to swinging the nerfhammer...

It's so true it's painful.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Voltage

[Paradoxity]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

So to defend DE obvious mistake that can be fixed in 30 seconds we have :

P2W argument, buy a booster !

Time argument, it's to old to need a fix !

Parity argument, I have suffered to do it so you must suffer too !

Adaptation argument, if you do this and that voodoo tricks you will be able to surpass the problem !

Importance argument, as I have it already they are more important matters that I suffer from so DE needs to focus on those !

With those kind of friends you don't need enemies.

 

Edit, a late bonus ! If your clan cannot farm for it like a daily job then you doesn't deserve it, even if it's just a keyboard input mistake that is the beginning of all this. Wonderful.

Sad part is it's thinking like this that's gonna strangle the game out. Not Hema, specifically, but this kind of thing- The new player retention in Warframe is bloody terrible, and reasoning like these here are why we're having such a problem fixing it. 

Edit: to make it clear, I'm agreeing with the quote- these kinds of 'defenses' are anything but. They're examples of why problems like this remain in the game long after they should have been addressed. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Paradoxity
Clarity

[TARINunit9]

On 2020-01-08 at 3:37 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Legend has it that they screwed up on the amount required and never changed it

Devs have claimed that no, it was intended. Apparently the "heal on headshot" mechanic was sooooo revolutionary that they just HAD to make it so stupidly hard to grind for!

[Paradoxity]

40 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Devs have claimed that no, it was intended. Apparently the "heal on headshot" mechanic was sooooo revolutionary that they just HAD to make it so stupidly hard to grind for!

Ya know,  funnily enough,  at the time maybe it was- honestly I can't remember when the bloody thing dropped. But the fact that it's mediocre- at best- anymore, coupled with the extreme cost, should mean it gets reevaluated. They show no lack of speed in applying the nerfbat to things they deem a problem, so at this point it's a little insulting of them to leave it as-is. 

 

[Elenortirie]

13 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

How?  How does putting JUST the enemy faction material in the faction enemy's drop table prevent you from farming cells on Ceres dark sector missions?

The way I understood your suggestion is that you want to override resource drop tables of the planet, by the mob faction drop tables.

Ceres specifically is not an issue in here because it's grineer planet - no nullies involved.

The problem would arise in - for example neural sensors farm on DS defences of jupiter - You'd override the jupiter drop table in there removing neural sensors from there.

That is assuming I understood Your suggestion right.

Now if You didn't mean overriding but adding ontop of it.... well it would still hamper DS farming by a virtue of polluting the drop tables....

 

14 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

The [DE]fenders are really coming out of the woodworks for this thread too, everyone saying how "it's not an issue".  It literally takes more faction materials to research ONE goddamn weapon than it does for the ENTIRE chem or energy lab.  How does that look balanced to any of you?  I'm not even asking that they change the cost because DE is so deaf to feedback because of all the shills showing up telling them how good a job they did with BS like this, I'm just asking for a very minor change in how the resources drop so that you passively gain the materials like nearly every other #*!%ing material in the game.  How does a faction dropping their faction material instead of a different faction's material not make sense?  

I'm not sure if this is pointed at me or at overal trends in the thread, but I will use it to clarify:

I am in no way defending DE on Hema affair, what they did is imo bullS#&$ in there and their post-S#&$storm handling of the situation is also S#&$. I am merely pointing out an issue You seemingly forgot to take into account, in Your specific idea on how to address the problem.

[Status]

If you're currently in the process of farming the Hema while posting on this thread, you're wasting time not farming

[SenorClipClop]

We really just need sources of Mutagen samples available in larger quantities. I have enough Detonite and Fieldron bits to use them as Archgun ammo, but I am never with a significant supply of Mutagen samples.

[MJ12]

On 2020-01-08 at 11:30 PM, Paradoxity said:

It'd be less obscene if the Hema was actually good. 

That aside,  yeah, I actually agree with this. Even if they only switched dark sectors over to dropping Mutagen samples instead of detonite/fieldron, that'd be enough. 

 

 

No, it would actually be worse if the Hema was good. Right now, the Hema being a dumb prestige weapon is what makes the absurd grind tolerable for everyone who doesn't have it-sure, it's an absurd grind for 3000 mastery rank but it's largely just a mastery rank thing. You get it to show off that you got it, nothing more.

If it was Actually Good and had a major part in the endgame meta, it would probably cause more and more rage.

On 2020-01-08 at 11:19 PM, Teridax68 said:

This I think is perhaps the most apt illustration of just how silly the "respect" argument is: not only is it an inconsistent argument for DE to make, given the many times they've rebalanced content and toned down the grind after people suffered through it (we're getting this for Railjack now too!), the argument itself is just plain wrong. Nobody is being "respected" by making more people suffer through a notoriously poorly-designed and balanced grind, and I've yet to see any sizeable number of players who have completed the Hema and actively opposed reductions to its research cost (I myself did the entire grind myself for my one-man-clan years ago, which is precisely what's motivating me to ask for a reduction in cost for everyone else). This is just one of those issues where someone at DE has decided to plant their feet and not budge on, and given that there are bigger fish to fry, it is unfortunately unlikely that this will change anytime soon.

Ironically I think this is why whoever is responsible for the Hema grind is getting their way-simply because it's a mediocre weapon (perfectly usable but hardly top tier) nobody really cares enough to make it accessible. People complain about the Hema and they're entirely justified in doing so but it's not something that anyone cares that much about-you're not going to boycott an update simply because it lacks a Hema cost rebalance or something. Because it's basically just a trophy and 3000 mastery points.

If the Hema had been actually good, I suspect that there would have been cost rebalances cutting down the absurd research requirements in a month.

[Gasau]

I think it was after the hema that the developers took the path - "if we admit our mistake, we lose."

 

As with any large company. *cough* EA *cough* Blizzard

 

It is after this rubicon that developers finally stop listening to their community. And subsequently only lose their players.

This is an obvious mistake. I even think that someone wrote an extra zero and pretended to be - "well oki. this is normal."

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

On 2020-01-08 at 11:37 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Legend has it that they screwed up on the amount required and never changed it

But the true story is, in fact, far more terrifying: DE intentionally made it that expensive as an experiment. Of course, that experiment fell flat

[Oreades]

21 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

The "fix" for the Hema thing is just to get rid of the Keys to access the Derelicts and let us PUG the damn place.

That is honestly probably the biggest reason that I don't bother with the derelicts unless I absolutely have no other choice. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Oreades

[Aazhyd]

Buy it with plat. Done.

[Paradoxity]

4 hours ago, MJ12 said:

No, it would actually be worse if the Hema was good. Right now, the Hema being a dumb prestige weapon is what makes the absurd grind tolerable for everyone who doesn't have it-sure, it's an absurd grind for 3000 mastery rank but it's largely just a mastery rank thing. You get it to show off that you got it, nothing more.

If it was Actually Good and had a major part in the endgame meta, it would probably cause more and more rage.

Arguably, yeah. My line of thought was for a newer player- one who maybe uses the wiki/community just enough to suss out how to do things, but doesn't use it to try and find out optimal weapons or builds or anything. To someone like that, the Hema grind ought to be rewarding- afterall, as has been pointed out, Hema alone costs more to research  than the entirety of the chem and energy sets. To go through that grind and find out the weapon is nothing more than MR fodder would be pretty disheartening, at least personally. 

That said, though, I see exactly where you're coming from and I don't disagree- if Hema was a high meta weapon, the issues around it would likely be just as bad. 

Honestly, it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't- While I can and do argue for Hema's research costs to be brought in line with the rest of the weapons, I'd also accept a massive overhaul and buff to the weapon to make it actually worth the cost. Not that I honestly expect DE to do either. 

 

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2020-01-09 at 5:48 PM, LSG501 said:

Really you're upset by me saying the truth that they already buffed the drop rates and that DE won't be changing things so you need to go back to farming...

I could always ask you the question of why YOU feel you need special treatment of having the requirements reduced when plenty of other players/clans have managed to farm the resources without issue since it's release... yes it's higher than others but it was released 3 years ago after all....

No, my problem is with you coming in with your #*!%ing dismissive, holier than thou attitude and your "Better get back to farming now boy" BS, and the fact that I recognize your name and I'm pretty sure you've done this more than once in a thread I've created or commented in.  

I'm not asking for special treatment for me.  I'm asking that they take a look at the goddamn numbers and own up to the fact that there is a very obvious number imbalance.  Obvious, at least, to anyone that doesn't need to take their shoes off to count.  I'm asking for a change (that makes logical sense and meshes with game theme/lore) in where a single resource drops so that farming for the resource can be done literally anywhere other than just the Derelict and can be done while you are doing literally anything other than JUST farming the resource.  

I always wondered where the people complaining about "You can't make it any better, it has to suck for everyone that comes after me too." were, and here you #*!%ing are.