Warframe "Prestige" upon reaching level 30 - Would it work ?

[lukinu_u]

First of all, I saw another topic suggesting this and were about to answer, but decided to make a new topic to discuss about it, because it's a totally different concept.

So, a lot of people have suggested think kind of "prestige/reset" at MR30, which at first and I totally agree with this, but I think it can work if a few conditions are met :

• You don't loose 100% of your stuff and your fresh experience is sighly different depending on what you already own.
• It's worth the sacrificing, without being a game breaking new thing that everyone want and will rush to MR30 because it's mandatory.
• It's not an irreversible operation and you can switch between your normal and prestige game whenever you want (can sounds weird but I will explain).

1 - WHAT IS PRESTIGE MODE ?
Prestige mode would be a new harder experience you can start at some point in the game (not sure how and when) with progression tied to the normal game with possibility to switch between both modes. It could be confusing, but should be more clear after listing how it work :

• Prestige mode reset your progression and set all mission to a higher base level.
• You can freely switch between normal and prestige mode whenever you want. However, you only get the benefit of the prestige mode while it's active.
• You must own an item in your normal game to use it in Prestige mode, which include warframe, weapon, mods, consumables, etc... This mean you need to progress in your normal game to progress in the prestige mode.
• The following items are not affected by the reset and usable in both modes:
  • Cosmetics (including arcane helmets)
  • Warframe, weapons, companions and Riven slots
  • Rivens
  • Platinum
  • Focus
  • Raijack progression
• Trading and market are both disabled.
• Some specific items are treated and obtained differently (explained later).
• You can reset your prestige progression after reaching MR30 to get more benefits.

As you can see, it would be the almost the same experience with restrictions based on what you own in your normal game, higher level enemies and no way to speed up your progression through plats and trading. Because of this it's important to keep in mind is some gears are rare, locked behind time limited events or earned with money and these things need to be obtained differently, which bring us to the next point.


2 - HOW EXCLUSIVE STUFF IS OBTAINED ?
So a lot of stuff like Prime Vaulted gears, event weapons, event mods, Plague Zaws, etc... are locked behind time limited event and with trading disabled, we could simply wait for the event to show up but it sounds unfair if you already farmed for it in normal game. Instead, all of these item are obtained from new relics that replace the regular relic drops while prestige mode is active :

• Orokin Relics :
  •  Prisma tokens (common) : used to upgrade normal weapons to their Prisma variant.
  • Crafted Forma (uncommon)
  • Prime token (rare) : used to upgrade normal gears to their Prime variant, including mod.
     
• Event Relics :
  • Vandal tokens (common) : used to upgrade normal weapons to their Vandal variant.
  • Wraith tokens (common) : used to upgrade normal weapons to their Wraith variant.
  • Random event mod (Uncommon) : a random even mod from all that only drop from event.
  • Lotus token (rare) : used to choose a Dex or Sundial weapon of your choice. The weapon is already crafted but still require a slot.
     
• Kuva Relics :
  • 1500 Kuva (common)
  • 5000 Kuva (Uncommon)
  • Kuva token (rare) : used to upgrade a normal weapon to one of its Kuva variant you own in your normal game.
     
• Companion Relics :
  • Companion Token (rare) : used to copy a companion of you choice you own in your normal game.
  • Kitgun Token (rare) : used to copy a kitgun of you choice you own in your normal game.
  • Zaw Token (rare) : used to copy a zaw of you choice you own in your normal game.

3 - WHAT ARE THE REWARDS AND ARE THEY WORTH THE SACRIFICE ?
This is actually the most tricky part because it need to be good to encourage people trying, but not too good for it to not become mandatory.
These rewards would stack for each prestige level, to 8 :

• Prestige Banner on your Profile : It's simple, a prestige banner on your profile showing your prestige level.
• +10% max reputation, up to +80%
• +1 Universal Forma Slot : Here, the idea it to allow the use of +1 Aura Forma on regular mods slots for each prestige level you climb. It's not game breaking and is a good QoL addition that may be worth the grind for easier build diversity, especially when playing with Umbra mods. Note Umbral mods can't suit in universal slots.
• +1 Riven Slot : Here, the idea the same as above but for Rivens. YES, it sounds overpowered but there would be some restrictions that make their use not always worth it and avoid 8 Riven moddings :
  • Riven can't be used together if they share at least one stat. This mean two Riven with +damages can't be used together and this apply to every other stat.
  • Each additionnal Riven has -10% of their total stats value, up to -80% when all 8 slots use Rivens.
  • The use of multiple Rivens prevent you to from using Primed mods.

The Riven thing may be too good, but overall, they are meaningful rewards that encourage playing the new experience, without being too good or game breaking. I'm not really sure what can be added here so let me know if you have any suggestion.
Also, I think cosmetics here are bad because since comsmetic value is a subjective thing, it can be good for some people while being bad for other.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by lukinu_u
Corrected a few spelling mistakes.

[DrivaMain]

Until Non Founders can reach MR30, it’s best not to implement this prestige type of thing YET.

[-Kittens-]

The idea I'm going to do seven years of grinding AGAIN is what someone who is either of LITERAL diminished mental capacity or whom has never had a single actual responsibility in their entire waking life, [littleduck]EVAH[/littleduck] thinks.

There are not enough no's in the entire panmetaomniverse to cover this idea in ANY context, nevermind making all of de's monetized content pseudo-unmonetized, which is a literal pants-as-a-hat business model.

I do congratulate you on almost making me lose a monitor and keyboard to orange juice, nice try.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by -Kittens-

[SneakyErvin]

No!

Just reading the part, 

1 hour ago, lukinu_u said:

Prestige mode reset your progression all your progression and set all mission to a higher base level.

makes me say no no no hell no. I shouldnt be forced to slog through Hydron a gazillion times in order to unlock a more appealing mission base level. After that I more or less stopped reading because the rest of the ideas cant be any better.

[Orabell]

Why do people think that there has to be something after MR 30 ? You do realize that some games survive on horizontal progression just fine ? Guild Wars 1&2 for example. I think the whole MR thing should just be done with 30.

[lukinu_u]

il y a 31 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

No!

Just reading the part, 

makes me say no no no hell no. I shouldnt be forced to slog through Hydron a gazillion times in order to unlock a more appealing mission base level. After that I more or less stopped reading because the rest of the ideas cant be any better.

It's explained a few lines later that you can freely switch between the normal and prestige mode.I understand the idea of resetting your progression isn't necessary appealing, but since it's completely optionnal and is not irreversible.

Overall, it's artificial content because it's purely recyclied, so it's more playing time for people that want a reason to farm and spend time (hello nightwave) while being almost no work from devs.
 

Il y a 1 heure, -Kittens- a dit :

The idea I'm going to do seven years of grinding AGAIN is what someone who is either of LITERAL diminished mental capacity or whom has never had a single actual responsibility in their entire waking life, [littleduck]EVAH[/littleduck] thinks.

Actually, reaching high MR doesn't take seven years. All that content was release over 7 years but you can easily reach max MR in 3 month at a reasonable playing rate if you know what you are doing.

The idea have to be considered as high end goal for people that really want it, rather than a go to thing for everyone once you have all gears.

[Tsonachiko]

One thing I actually dislike about warframe is that I have such a big advantage on new players, that if they want to catch up they have to spend hundreds of hours farming resources, parts, xp, rep, etc. I would first like to see mastery rank benefits reworked, or at least cushioned for low mastery players. That being said, if people like the grind and want to re-grind, it'd be cool to see some sort of prestige reward for it, something beyond cosmetics but still low impact.

[o0Despair0o]

Can't we just agree on a New Game+ so that people finally stop asking about it?

 

Like, you keep your stuff but the quests are reset. Boom, problem solved.

[peterc3]

4 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

set all mission to a higher base level

This is not worth more rewards.

4 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

+1 Universal Forma Slot : Here, the idea it to allow the use of +1 Aura Forma on regular mods slots for each prestige level you climb. It's not game breaking and is a good QoL addition that may be worth the grind for easier build diversity, especially when playing with Umbra mods. Note Umbral mods can't suit in universal slots.

Either this is supposed to be harder or not. This is not QoL.

[Luciole77]

are you crazy man?

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

It's explained a few lines later that you can freely switch between the normal and prestige mode.I understand the idea of resetting your progression isn't necessary appealing, but since it's completely optionnal and is not irreversible.

Overall, it's artificial content because it's purely recyclied, so it's more playing time for people that want a reason to farm and spend time (hello nightwave) while being almost no work from devs.

No no, that isnt the problem. The problem is requiring people to grind to MR30 to unlock a better version of the missions i.e higher starting levels. That should be a baseline part of the game on a simple "elite" start chart that you can access after clearing the normal one. I'm not gonna torture myself through hours upon hours upon hours grinding hydron or some other S#&$ pile place with weapons I dont give jack about in order to unlock viable content.

Plus all the rewards tucked behind such a S#&$show grind? Nope no thank you, never. All those rewards would be better suited in actual interesting game modes and not locked behind something that makes water torture or having splinters shoved under your fingernails seem like spa treatment.

[maddragonmaster]

stuff and suggestions like this is near the apex of how controversial the demand for harder and harder content. because some of these ideas for challenging content or  a harder difficulty might sound nice to the person thats writing the idea down with pen and paper. but when it comes down to actual implication of said idea it has a high risk turning into a disaster. remember that one bit of turning eximus into invincible juggernauts that only weakness was shooting tiny weak points at them to remove their invulnerability? that was heavily criticized because of people who understand the ins and outs of warframe work. and having something that can spawn as frequently as eximus turned into what the concept was and having to deal with lag potential and a various amount of other stuff we have to deal with it just didn't sound alright for the majority.

[lukinu_u]

il y a 28 minutes, o0Despair0o a dit :

Can't we just agree on a New Game+ so that people finally stop asking about it?

Like, you keep your stuff but the quests are reset. Boom, problem solved.

That's totally different.
A New Game+ like you say wouldn't ask you to use low MR weapons, build with what you get and this kind of stuff.

The idea of a reset is the possibility to restart and try to push low MR and common mods with your actual knowledge. Adapt and try to climb from low level and do what you can to optimize your loadou, because early gameplay is a totally different experience.

Sure, this can be achieved by creating a new account, but it would be nice to get benefits out of it on your main account as a kind of endgame.

Honestly, the main reason I want this is because I love the potential theory craft of Warframe but it rapidely become obvious when you get everything. For a example you have no reason to run other melee than full crit with CO and Weeping Wounds unless you fight status immune target and this kind of stuff, simply because it provide the best outcome with high level gears and all mods, but at lower level, you don't have everything and you must play diffently depending on what you own, and that's what I find interesting here.

A prestige system isn't the best idea for this, but it's probably the easiest one to introduce. I made two other concept based on lower gear choices that force you to adapt, but they are much more complexe ideas that require a lot of time and work to be game ready :
 

• One that I can't find anymore, that is overall similar rogue like gamemode. You start with starter loadout, kill enemies and at the end of each wave, you have access to arsenal to customise your loadout with what you dropped. It may be unfair since drop are random each time, but it encourage adapating your loadout depending on what you get and try to progress as far as you can with what you got from your luck.
   
• The second idea is written down, so I will simply link the post I made : 

These two idea definitely work better than the idea of a prestige mode, but require a lot of time to make game ready and that's the main issue I see. When they work on serval quests, expending Railjack content, Duviri and all these stuff, easy to implement gamemode sounds like a good thing.

 

il y a 30 minutes, peterc3 a dit :

Either this is supposed to be harder or not. This is not QoL.

This allow you to use build that require multiple different Forma-ed polarity on the same warframe, rather than buidling mulitple time the same warframe, so as long as you can't put Umbral Forma in, it's just QoL.
 

[maddragonmaster]

32 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

That's totally different.
A New Game+ like you say wouldn't ask you to use low MR weapons, build with what you get and this kind of stuff.

The idea of a reset is the possibility to restart and try to push low MR and common mods with your actual knowledge. Adapt and try to climb from low level and do what you can to optimize your loadou, because early gameplay is a totally different experience.

Sure, this can be achieved by creating a new account, but it would be nice to get benefits out of it on your main account as a kind of endgame.

Honestly, the main reason I want this is because I love the potential theory craft of Warframe but it rapidely become obvious when you get everything. For a example you have no reason to run other melee than full crit with CO and Weeping Wounds unless you fight status immune target and this kind of stuff, simply because it provide the best outcome with high level gears and all mods, but at lower level, you don't have everything and you must play diffently depending on what you own, and that's what I find interesting here.

A prestige system isn't the best idea for this, but it's probably the easiest one to introduce. I made two other concept based on lower gear choices that force you to adapt, but they are much more complexe ideas that require a lot of time and work to be game ready :
 

• One that I can't find anymore, that is overall similar rogue like gamemode. You start with starter loadout, kill enemies and at the end of each wave, you have access to arsenal to customise your loadout with what you dropped. It may be unfair since drop are random each time, but it encourage adapating your loadout depending on what you get and try to progress as far as you can with what you got from your luck.
   
• The second idea is written down, so I will simply link the post I made : 

These two idea definitely work better than the idea of a prestige mode, but require a lot of time to make game ready and that's the main issue I see. When they work on serval quests, expending Railjack content, Duviri and all these stuff, easy to implement gamemode sounds like a good thing.

 

This allow you to use build that require multiple different Forma-ed polarity on the same warframe, rather than buidling mulitple time the same warframe, so as long as you can't put Umbral Forma in, it's just QoL.
 

from my experiences players just want something to keep themselves busy, not difficulty or challenge solely as some people want themselves to believe because as soon as DE attempts to nerf something someone gets angry, and when DE trys to limit the player in any way they get angry. it would be more easier if warframe had compounded missions. the idea is simply take bounties put them in space and possible have them scale endlessly.  the idea is that the player during the compound mission does let say a 5-10 minute survival, then after that they do a defense for like 5 waves, then maybe a spy or disruption. this is just a basic idea of it, so i am not really going to expand it because i am not a developer or anything i am just going on my thoughts of "gotta stay moving"

Edited February 3, 2020 by maddragonmaster

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, lukinu_u said:

so as long as you can't put Umbral Forma in, it's just QoL.

It removes incentive to ever buy Forma again for that slot. That isn't QoL.

[lukinu_u]

il y a 17 minutes, peterc3 a dit :

It removes incentive to ever buy Forma again for that slot. That isn't QoL.

At the cost of a universal forma, so 5 forma + the bp.

Have you ever spent more than 10 forma on the same item ? 
For a full maxed build with with primed mods and rivens, my average is 4, up to 6 sometimes and very rarely 7, which are all on different slots. You very rarely need to spend more than 2 forma on the same slot, and it's safe the say you never spend 5 forma on the same slot if you are smart enough to plan you build before spending your formas.
So yes, spending a universal forma (which cost 5 forma) on a slot that will not require more than 3 forma in the worst scenario ever happening, is QoL at the cost of more resources spent.

Also, who buy Forma, seriously ? Exept the guy who put 1000 forma on their gear.

[Emolition]

Think it would be cooler if they do special skins for all frames and you get to pick 1 when you reach 30 to have on your favorite frame.  Could cause some problems tho with frames released later for ppl that reached 30 allready.

[Cubewano]

This just sounds like a terrible way to split the playerbase even more and diminish the capacity for co-op. If you want challenge tell DE to just balance their game, fin. 

[JamXaos]

I like the idea. Not like we have anything better to do. You guys are saying we should either stop playing the game, or prestige and restart the game at a high base level and progress further. Idk about you but I enjoy warframe and I don't mind the second option. Mastery 30 might be a bit much for me though, maybe prestige on completing the solar system (Solo - Warframe was always a solo game) and so that they're aren't linked to Mastery. Just another form of levelling up.

[Veridian]

A lot of thought has been put in considering we've been getting weapons up to lv40 as of late. *hint*

Just saying....

Also, this brings more needless grind. Unless we can send our extractors to hydron for affinity I don't see anyone being particularly fond of leveling ~600 pieces of equipment again...

...and again...and again...aaaand...

Call me Nostradamus, my bet for what follows after Mr30 is MR31. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Ver1dian

[SQLOwns]

sounds like a lot of work for little to no payoff............they need to focus on other aspects of the game that are lacking.

[AandOE]

The beginning really sounded like "True Vault Hunter Mode", which got me to read the rest, but #2 and #3 currently do not move me in such a way that I'd want to play it. Just think, TVHM Liches, requiring 5 Parazon nodes, 5x the murmurs, 5 downs, 5x the hp density, while Railjacking to a 1/2 hour Super Sentient Shedu farm located behind a false wall that's only activatable by double jumping with a maxxed Sentient-style skateboard, that's also being guarded by Darth Vad--The Stalker, all of his Acolytes, and all of the game's bosses. Plus nervos. Okay, maybe that's more like "Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode +10", but still! XD

[(XBOX)OdinAsteroid]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb lukinu_u:

Actually, reaching high MR doesn't take seven years. All that content was release over 7 years but you can easily reach max MR in 3 month at a reasonable playing rate if you know what you are doing.

uhm... by spending platinum that is? Maybe I just have no idea what I'm doing... are you max MR?

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Now that DE has put the Parasesis and the Kuva weapons in the game that go to 45, there might not even be a 30 max as many thought there was. There is a door there for a reason.....

Besides, if they have not used any of the areas that the forcefields in the Relays block, there really is no reason to want to rush to Max level. We been in Relays for years and still have not gotten access behind them other areas yet. Stop speed running into walls, you are not Gauss.

Unless you have your Gauss on right now....then you are Gauss...

 

[kapn655321]

If the reward for reaching MR 30 was starting over, I can surely promise you that is something that would prevent me from ever allowing myself to reach MR 30.
But, I had no plans on getting there in the first place, so no real loss there.

I had an idea last month that's something similar.

New Game+: Speed Run Mode.
Streamline the game without ANY of the grind, to be replayed repeatedly.
You bring 2 loadouts. That's it.

Brute force the whole game. Nodes, quests, everything.
No RNG mission completion, no rewards. Timed like a speedrun.
You can leave and come back to it any time, the timer will pause.

See how fast anyone could beat the game with only two loadouts.
Have a leaderboard.