I dislike Mastery Rank giving you capacity on Unranked weapons

[Zahnrad]

For the record, I don't hate the feature and I do appreciate it but there are times when I've wished it wasn't quite so.

So, your Mastery Rank dictates how much Capacity your Unranked or underleveled weapons have, up until you reach the same number as your mastery, then you gain capacity on the above levels.

I do think this feature is nice but I miss the times before it was added. Formaing a weapon or piece of equipment, then jumping into a lowish level mission to level it up until you can slot your mods onto it. Again this isn't a bad feature and I won't bash anyone for liking it, but there was something much more peaceful and simple about it. Simply jumping into a mission after removing all my mods now just wouldn't feel the same.

I think this feature also has its downsides in a potentially objective way.

Stalker has, for lack of better words become a joke to most players who can decently mod in any mission. Some have even gone to say Shadow Stalker is easier than the regular Stalker. Once over there were times when a Stalker apperance caused dread in players and how he always seemed to come at the wrong time. I think the MR-Capacity feature might have been what hurt Stalker the most, he preyed on Frames and Players who had just forma'd or crafted/bought a new weapon, and unable to mod it out those players were much more vulnerable to a Stalker attack. Sure it may suck having to fight Stalker after a forma but I think that was most of his charm. It felt like an accomplishment to take him out while weakened. You fought off a dangerous predator that sniffed out your weakness.

And it's these same reasons why I think introducing a Stalker Mode into Warframe simply just wouldn't be fun. You'll jump into a mission with players who you may have no chance of defeating because they are more or less already fully modded, even after a forma.

There's also the issue of "What happens at MR30 or MR31?" is there no longer a capacity incentive to MR ranks? Or would they give us bonus capacity on our stuff? Both come with their own complications.

I understand changing it now would likely cause uproar from players who have invested heavily into their MR. I can't really recommend a change, but if I was given the role of making that change here's my suggestion.

Use what the Solar Rail PvP/Proto-Conclave used it made you enter with Rank 0 weapons but a high affinity rate, you went in with your equipment having their mods all slotted in, but you gain access to these mods as your level increased. Essentially unlocking your mods on your already modded weapon. This could be a compromise that wouldn't force players to remove their mods everytime they forma like it used to be. But these are just my opinions, feel free to disagree.

EDIT: I've had to highlight one sentence in bold because it was being overlooked

Edited May 9, 2020 by Zahnny

[xxswatelitexx]

The Accomplishment is  reaching an MR where you finally feel Shadow Stalker is Joke.
There is no point in forcing players to restart from 0 each time, the whole point of "progression" is to feel stronger.

Glad the MR system gives Capacity, I would have given up on the game long ago if that weren't the case.

[vanaukas]

7 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Stalker has, for lack of better words become a joke to most players who can decently mod in any mission. Some have even gone to say Shadow Stalker is easier than the regular Stalker. Once over there were times when a Stalker apperance caused dread in players and how he always seemed to come at the wrong time. I think the MR-Capacity feature might have been what hurt Stalker the most, he preyed on Frames and Players who had just forma'd or crafted/bought a new weapon, and unable to mod it out those players were much more vulnerable to a Stalker attack. Sure it may suck having to fight Stalker after a forma but I think that was most of his charm. It felt like an accomplishment to take him out while weakened. You fought off a dangerous predator that sniffed out your weakness.

Then you have to supress the operator too, because he melts him very quickly. I prefer having him buffed (stalker) rather than your suggestion.

[Zahnrad]

Just now, xHeretic said:

Then you have to supress the operator too, because he melts him very quickly. I prefer having him buffed (stalker) rather than your suggestion.

I approve but I dunno how to do that without him being left behind eventually.

[vanaukas]

9 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I approve but I dunno how to do that without him being left behind eventually.

Maybe this would be the perfect chance for player-stalker, as they (DE) do on streams. That should make the stalker a real threat

[DrivaMain]

31 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

Maybe this would be the perfect chance for player-stalker, as they (DE) do on streams. That should make the stalker a real threat

So Dark Souls Invasion : Warframe Edition? Sign me up. But how does the player stalker fight against a squad of Meta frames?

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

So Dark Souls Invasion : Warframe Edition? Sign me up. But how does the player stalker fight against a squad of Meta frames?

We need to mod a version of our stalker with his weapons modded by us too I think.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, xxswatelitexx said:

The Accomplishment is  reaching an MR where you finally feel Shadow Stalker is Joke.
There is no point in forcing players to restart from 0 each time, the whole point of "progression" is to feel stronger.

Glad the MR system gives Capacity, I would have given up on the game long ago if that weren't the case.

Wha? You kill Stalker with gear where MR, forma and capacity are actually relevant and matter?

EDIT:

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

Stalker has, for lack of better words become a joke to most players who can decently mod in any mission. Some have even gone to say Shadow Stalker is easier than the regular Stalker. Once over there were times when a Stalker apperance caused dread in players and how he always seemed to come at the wrong time. I think the MR-Capacity feature might have been what hurt Stalker the most, he preyed on Frames and Players who had just forma'd or crafted/bought a new weapon, and unable to mod it out those players were much more vulnerable to a Stalker attack. Sure it may suck having to fight Stalker after a forma but I think that was most of his charm. It felt like an accomplishment to take him out while weakened. You fought off a dangerous predator that sniffed out your weakness.

Ditto here... I don't understand this because I haven't been killing Stalker with Warframes or weapons since forever. I use god mode Operator and an Amp. I mean, why would you even bother or even risk trying to kill Stalker with a Warframe? He can actually kill your Warframe if you make a mistake... but he's a pushover with Operator. Damage adaptation? Pfft...

So yes, go ahead and level up your frames and weapons and hop into Operator to kill Shadow Stalker today! It doesn't matter what MR you are because Operator doesn't use mods, forma and none of Operator's equipment is MR locked. So none of anything you said about MR has anything to do with Stalker.

Edited May 9, 2020 by nslay

[Katinka]

Going by Steve's comments on devstreams around the time this feature was added, the idea behind it is that a highly skilled Tenno that has has mastered many weapons and warframes should be able to pick up a new piece of equipment and already know how to use it.  You don't need to go out and gain affinity with it to start modding it because you are that skilled with a variety of wargear. 
I am curious though if we will get Mastery ranks above 30 and if they'll allow all weapons to have extra mod allowance, like Kuva weapons but without having to level 6 times, and would warframes get extra and maybe make Umbral builds easier?

[BlackCat500]

The only thing I dislike about it is how it makes affinity grind (whether it's on a forma'd weapon or a fresh one) even worse. You spend literally up to 28/30(or 40) weapon levels not seeing any improvement whatsoever. The higher MR you are, the longer the period where you are literally just getting affinity because the game wants you to, not because it makes you feel like things are getting better. I'm not saying I want a reset, I quite like the added bonus of being more proficient with any weapon right away...but I feel like this feeling could definitely be padded with something. Something to make the affinity grind feel less monotonous and unproductive. As to what that would be, I am stuck on that.

[Zahnrad]

2 minutes ago, BlackCat500 said:

The only thing I dislike about it is how it makes affinity grind (whether it's on a forma'd weapon or a fresh one) even worse. You spend literally up to 28/30(or 40) weapon levels not seeing any improvement whatsoever. The higher MR you are, the longer the period where you are literally just getting affinity because the game wants you to, not because it makes you feel like things are getting better. I'm not saying I want a reset, I quite like the added bonus of being more proficient with any weapon right away...but I feel like this feeling could definitely be padded with something. Something to make the affinity grind feel less monotonous and unproductive. As to what that would be, I am stuck on that.

I wish I could give you more than one reaction because I agree so much with this.

[BloodKitten]

just give shadow stalker that sentient weapon so he have ranged options, back then, stalker with braton vandal was scarier then stalker with a bow, and stalker with practicly only melee and spinning disco ball is even more of a joke.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 hours ago, nslay said:

Wha? You kill Stalker with gear where MR, forma and capacity are actually relevant and matter?

EDIT:

Ditto here... I don't understand this because I haven't been killing Stalker with Warframes or weapons since forever. I use god mode Operator and an Amp. I mean, why would you even bother or even risk trying to kill Stalker with a Warframe? He can actually kill your Warframe if you make a mistake... but he's a pushover with Operator. Damage adaptation? Pfft...

So yes, go ahead and level up your frames and weapons and hop into Operator to kill Shadow Stalker today! It doesn't matter what MR you are because Operator doesn't use mods, forma and none of Operator's equipment is MR locked. So none of anything you said about MR has anything to do with Stalker.

Yea exactly. We are the Operator, after all. Theres a lot of Operator bashing on here, but it's a solid backbone of a feature and makes the game unique and is the main reason why I'm here.

I'm currently working on getting all the Vox Solaris arcanes. Magus Anomaly? A 30m AoE pull? Yes please lol.

 

[Teljaxx]

I think the first time you level a new item, you should have to start from zero capacity. But, using a forma should start from your mastery rank.

Having to start without any mods on your new gear made it so that you actually got a better feel for the weapon itself. You learned what it was capable of, and what its weaknesses were before adding mods. Then as you gained capacity, you were able to slowly remove its weaknesses and improve its strengths. It felt like the weapon was growing as you used it, as you could take it into higher and higher level missions. Leveling a weapon was a process, and it was fun.

Plus, this actually gave long time players a reason to do low level missions with their low level gear.

But, since most people are far too impatient to actually have fun with the game, they just go to Draco/Hydron/Whatever and turbolevel everything. So I guess this wouldn't really matter anyway...

[nslay]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yea exactly. We are the Operator, after all. Theres a lot of Operator bashing on here, but it's a solid backbone of a feature and makes the game unique and is the main reason why I'm here.

I'm currently working on getting all the Vox Solaris arcanes. Magus Anomaly? A 30m AoE pull? Yes please lol.

 

I don't like Operator, but he/she works best against the Stalker. And the Stalker means business... that dude can even disable Warframe powers like defense abilities. Stalker/Shadow Stalker can kill your Warframe if you're careless or make any mistake. But Operator is god mode and he/she works really well against Shadow Stalker with little risk.

[Butterfly85]

People use their guns for stalker? Just go spoiler mode and blow them away with your amp. It's a 10 second job then. 😊

[Drachnyn]

The great thing about high MR is that i can forma a weapon and still have it usable, making me somewhat independant from Hydron/ESO. You would make formaing weapons even more of a pain and encourage going to hydron/ESO even more as the gun would do nothing against anything. Terrible idea.

[(PSN)psycofang]

5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

So Dark Souls Invasion : Warframe Edition? Sign me up. But how does the player stalker fight against a squad of Meta frames?

 

By getting 2 shotted

They hit you

 

You hit the ground

 

Loading screen

[Chicken-Biryani]

What? 

Why?

[Magus_Tahir]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, Zahnny said:

For the record, I don't hate the feature and I do appreciate it but there are times when I've wished it wasn't quite so.

 

This is one of those moments when I wake up and read the forums before having any coffee that makes me feel alive for the moment. I applaud your will to walk the path of the masochist to desire pain and punishment the longer you play a game. There is no truer experience as undermining power fantasy with inane levels of grind that renders all time spent as a jaw clenching vein popping eye bleeding undertaking from which no Mastery Rank can save you! Heavens know the easy path of five minutes in ESO to level a weapon isn't cutting it anymore we must go deeper to feel the weapon in its entirety clawing for every last inch to the pinnacles of perfection of the Tenno arts.

But you Zahnny do not go far enough for my tastes oh no no no. The Shadow Stalker must be FIFTY levels higher than his target and ALL in the mission should not be allowed to be extracted until he is dead or his target has run out of lives to spend no assisted revives with Shadow Stalker! With every kill the Stalker makes he should take five ranks of every frame and weapon equipped of every player in the mission! Pain must be shared after all for nothing encourages better play than ludicrous levels of hardship we must awaken them to the true way after all.

Yes yes yes I can see it now the masses with the dawning realization on their sodden faces that no matter how much they work and strive the game never gets easier the same dull excruciating tedium never ending, and the challenges once daunting will never be surmounted by skill and experience while their foes will always beat them into ground. Stupid weak and helpless until they accept the truth that is pain is pleasure beyond the power fantasy.

Again I applaud your devotion and desire for pain it is an inspiration to us all. Now I am going to go get some coffee and wake myself up from this nightmare of a thread I just read and watch Event Horizon extended cut cause at least that will make me laugh.

 

[AnatharsWrath]

an idea i had on this matter is %reduced mod effectiveness or damage based on level after formaing

lvl-0 =  90% reduction in damage/effectiveness

lvl-10 = 60% reduction

lvl-20= 30% reduction

ect.ect

basically it would allow you to keep your "builds" and such while adding to it (from newly added forma) while giving you an incentive to get your levels back for full damage ect. Your mods will still do something but you can actually see your weapon grow in ability as you regain those lost levels.

main issue is how it will punish newer players more than experienced ones.

[rastaban75]

I can't imagine the amount of pointless inconvenience this would add to the game.

I'll say this though: anyone who doesn't like the current system of MR providing mod capacity minumum can self-impose a rule so that whenever they forma a new weapon they can get rid of all their mods until the point dictated by the rank of the weapon "allows" them to add said mods. It's not that hard.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I have the fully opposite opinion.  I despise the forma system.  I hate maxing out a weapon and then having to re-level it half a dozen times just to fit 8 fully upgraded mods on it.  It's a tedious time-sink and to top it off, if you decide to change your build or you screw up a polarity then you have to reforma your forma'd slots, despite you already putting so much time and work into it.  If I re-level a weapon 6 times I should be able to fit anything I want on it, forever, regardless.  And no, I'm not looking to discuss that opinion.  I know most people scoff at the idea that our time should be respected and the system should allow you to have greater flexibility when you put more effort into it, not less.  I don't care.

The fact that I get most of my mod capacity on a weapon after putting forma on it, due to how much time and effort I've put into building MR, is the ONLY redeeming factor in the whole system.  I probably would have quit a loooong time ago if I had to start at literally 0 capacity on a weapon and level it up in some low level nonsense.

[Zahnrad]

3 hours ago, Nehra96 said:

What? 

Why?

If you read what I said instead of treating it like a Newspaper headline you would have been able to see my reasonings.

1 hour ago, rastaban75 said:

can self-impose a rule so that whenever they forma a new weapon they can get rid of all their mods until the point dictated by the rank of the weapon "allows" them to add said mods. It's not that hard.

Already stated this in my post too.

[Methanoid]

not exactly a big deal, you can easily reforma a frame/2x weapons and still carry 1 max rank weapon and max rank the frame/weapons in 1-2 runs of defence/sanctuary.

Also to many of us who have MR0 accounts, ranking everything from scratch is a normal thing.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Methanoid