Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, RailJakt said:

Okay so for once I must say, I like this cause when this weapon got into the game the meta was only that and the mass amount of damage you could use so it became very narrow in what choices you had while using specific frames, I can't speak for everyone here but as someone who plays Limbo quite regually now, this doesn't effect me much but I'm thinking of those that use those specific warframes mentioned

You really didn't have any freedom in what you did cause you know, the Xoris is so op in their capabilities and honestly it bough my joy down seeing how busted it was and made me move away from playing wukong all together but once this update drops, I'm looking forward to this and see how the meta will slowly get back to where it was and enjoyable from personal experience.


TLDR: I like this change as now more melee's can be used with the specific warframes other then only xoris, if you don't like it well than it's your personal opinion and this is mine.

No, it just means we have to go back to only using the Venka Prime, because it's the only other weapon with a positive interaction with pseudo-exalted weapons.

No build diversity is increased with this change.

[Kylo.]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

It used to, but it randomly and silently (so far as I could see) was changed to only work off your actual melee weapons combo, which is nonsense.

[xXMadneXDXx]

Buff XORIS STATS (crit chance, status chance and dmg) or give our formas back please, xoris is useless now (not even its passive makes it a good weapon).

 

[mikakor]

12 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Greetings, Tenno!

Within The Deadlock Protocol Quest brought the Xoris: a Glaive weapon capable of chaining Melee Combos infinitely. The design intention behind the infinite combo mechanic was predominantly added for the Granum Void’s charged throw moments, to allow you to retain your charges until you were ready. This mechanic opened up new avenues for Melee builds to maximize this infinite Melee Combo Duration, which is great! 

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice. This was our oversight, our mistake, and we apologize for the time it took to formulate a plan and address this. So let’s break down our plans:

Our plan is not to nerf the base powers of the Warframes involved, or the Mods that amplify the issue (Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds / Gladiator Mod Set), as doing so isn’t fair as it’s a reaction to a single weapon. In turn, we have planned to only change the interactions with the Xoris directly. 

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack, or if you die. Thus scaling with Warframe Abilities that are amplified by your Melee Combo multiplier (Ash Blade Storm, Atlas Landslide, and Khora Whipclaw), and even more so when equipped with Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds.

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used. What you’ll see now is the Critical Chance bonus applying to the first hit on abilities that are intended to scale with regular Melee Combo Multiplier, but then the Melee Combo is reset by the Ability, and does not apply to subsequent hits unless you build it up again with Xoris itself. Exalted Melee ultimates will reset the Xoris' Melee Combo Counter at the time of cast. As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole. 

In conclusion, Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Baruuk Serene Storm
• Excalibur Exalted Blade
• Khora Whipclaw
• Valkyr Talons
• Wukong Iron Staff

 

Special note: Gara’s Shattered Lash will now scale with Melee Combo Counter, to be consistent with Khora Whipclaw and Atlas Landslide. The same Xoris restriction will still apply.

TLDR: Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used.

We’ll be continuing to observe how the Xoris interacts with the above when The Steel Path Update arrives in your hands, and our apologies again for the wait. 

Thank you!

or... or... hear me out on this one. you realize that certain warframe exalted abilities are utter crap and balance them, rather than the weapon allowing them to be good? is that a possible thing for you? you know, the actual good thing

[DoveCannon]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

It used to, but it randomly and silently (so far as I could see) was changed to only work off your actual melee weapons combo, which is nonsense.

That happened in 27.5.4, I have been reporting it for a while now but DE doesn't seem interested in acknowledging it's an issue.

[fabi-fly]

This "interaction nerf" is a bit too brutal, and I think the Xoris will be unusable with this. So I have a suggestion : 

How about limiting this interaction to x6 combo multiplier, even if the xoris is at x12, to have less damage output ? 

I think this solution is a bit more fair.

[Geraion]

This should not have surprised you DE.

 

Well, was fun while it lasted I guess, was nice using more than 2 abilities on Ash regularly.

[zurefox]

hace 1 minuto, xXMadneXDXx dijo:

Buff XORIS STATS (crit chance, status chance and dmg) or give our formas back please, xoris is useless now (not even its passive makes it a good weapon).

 

haha, formas back, nice joke.

We must be able to mod our semi(?) exalted weapons , easy.
 

[KCToxic]

Time to return to my rivened melees. 

I supposed this had to happen due to the power it gave but resetting the counter every time you use an ability means that it's literally useless as a stat stick for frames like Khora. Especially since whipclaw won't be able to build combo as intended. 

Why not just give it combo duration when equipped by the frames listed above? So it can expire but someone maintaining the combo through normal play can still have big number?

[DoveCannon]

1 minute ago, mikakor said:

or... or... hear me out on this one. you realize that certain warframe exalted abilities are utter crap and balance them, rather than the weapon allowing them to be good? is that a possible thing for you? you know, the actual good thing

As a Valkyr main, this right here. Most exalted melees have been in a very weak place since the start of melee 3.0. Exalted melees should excel since they have an energy cost, not be unusable and constantly nerfed.

[[DE]Megan]

Just now, ItsDaKoolaidDude said:

Because how the nerfs have occurred and how often they've been occurring and the pattern in which we weren't supposed to enjoy in OUR way whereas they wanted us to enjoy in THEIR way.

It's our mistake that the infinite combo resulted in these scenarios, and I understand why there is frustration around it. As said above, we didn't want to make an overwhelming nerf to Warframe abilities/Exalted weapons across the board, so we decided to only change the interaction with Xoris directly. 

[Generally_Zod]

Why don't those abilities have separately moddable loadouts yet? Honestly having them depend on stat sticks is still restrictive; the best mods for a stat stick are not great for general play, and you end up using the warframe ability anyway. In that circumstance, all weapons are equal because they're just being used to hold mods and aren't meant to be used over the warframe abilities. Being able to NOT depend on a stat stick gives more flexibility, otherwise the best course of action is to just take the best stat stick weapon you can get your hands on and load it with the strongest mods you have. It doesn't matter that Xoris is being nerfed, because the jaw sword and the mire still exist.

There will always be a weapons that best serve the role of stat stick, and the mods will have very little flexibility because it's damage or bust. I enjoyed using the xoris because it gave me the option of shooting without just spamming my exalted weapons all the time to maintain the combo or running naramon to preserve it longer. Removing xoris as a viable stat stick only serves to remove the xoris as the best stat stick - now I'll just be returning to my old stat sticks that were previously the best in slot. The xoris was novel and a lot of fun, but I would much rather prefer separately moddable loadouts for any and all exalted abilities over this increasingly outdated-feeling stat stick mechanic that now also has a special case against it.

[MemeTerrorist]

17 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others

haha yea weird how that works huh?

[GREF_TM]

  

9 minutes ago, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

Mesa being OP for 5+ years - "It's fine". Exalted weapons and abilities that scale with melee get a tool that makes them better (especially those which lost power with melee 2.9 and finally got something to boost them) - "That's OP, gotta nerf that S#&$ real quick".

Why should i like such double standards?

[Sean]

While I get that change, can we also see an adjustment to make the controls for Heavy Attacks consistent?

Holding Quick Melee for a Heavy Attack is more fluid than having it be a separate keybind, and having had to use the Xoris only was a reminder of that.

Heavy Attacks currently are just clunky to use, and all that really needs to be done is have a Toggle within the settings for if a person wants to have "Hold Quick Melee for Heavy Attack", then can still keep a separate line in the keybind configurations area.

[LSG501]

I know it migth be me (and to be fair I never even considered using xoris in this way... primarily because I hate glaives) but why don't DE think about these sort of interactions before releasing a new weapon, this isn't the first time and I'm sure it won't the be the last.

At the end of the day the people that 'should' know the most about the game should know how something like this could potentially interact and test accordingly....if players can find it so quickly, then DE should be able to find it just as quickly in qc/testing, especially with all their testing tools etc. 

Edit: I'm sure a cap would have been a much fairer way to 'nerf' the interaction like some others have said too.  It's not like exalted weapons often end up being weaker than normal melee or anything....

[Geraion]

11 minutes ago, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

Because it should have been an easy prediction that didn't take this sort of nerf that just immediately removes the weapon from what it's used for. Stop having blood rush and the like interact with abilities that use stat-sticks or something, not whatever this whiplash is.

 

DE can't be this blind right? So why.

[-Onyx-Zodiac]

Surely didn't saw this one Coming
Something Makes fun? 
Better Nerf 

DE nowadays really doesn't know what they want
 

[Kylo.]

1 minute ago, GREF_TM said:

Mesa being OP for 5+ years

In what alternate universe have you been the past 5 years?

[[DE]Megan]

1 minute ago, KCToxic said:

Time to return to my rivened melees. 

I supposed this had to happen due to the power it gave but resetting the counter every time you use an ability means that it's literally useless as a stat stick for frames like Khora. Especially since whipclaw won't be able to build combo as intended. 

Why not just give it combo duration when equipped by the frames listed above? So it can expire but someone maintaining the combo through normal play can still have big number?

Giving the Xoris combo duration kills the intended design for the Granum Void, which in turn affects The Deadlock Protocol quest. The idea of an infinite combo duration weapon opens the door for some cool builds, but we don't want the Xoris to be the only way to play.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

They are nerfing an OP interaction. Why people hate nerfs?

'Power fantasy'.

Nevermind that apparently the game was a power fantasy before X broken element was introduced so it would still be one after it's gone, that the term 'power fantasy' is unbelievably broad and can be used to fit whatever vision of the game somebody wants it to, or that there's compelling psychological evidence to suggest that more challenging experiences that require the player to think and rethink their actions actually produces a more compelling power trip than a one-size-fits-all solution...

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

It's our mistake that the infinite combo resulted in these scenarios, and I understand why there is frustration around it. As said above, we didn't want to make an overwhelming nerf to Warframe abilities/Exalted weapons across the board, so we decided to only change the interaction with Xoris directly. 

I'm at least glad to have a direct answer from you.

[Cauldrath]

Whipclaw and Serene Storm were the only abilities on that list that are even good, damage-wise, compared to a normal melee with Blood Rush on it, and Whipclaw is generally better with a high-dispo riven, with Xoris just being a quality of life option.

[Axurr]

Playing without worrying about Combo Duration and not wasting either a slot or a focus tree on upkeep felt great and right, not broken. The exalted ability mechanic is due for overhaul - at least modwise, let alone the fact that most of these could and should be actual exalted weapons rather than 1 same button spam (Gara - only exception) for years, and this is a step in a wrong direction. Statsticks are a poorly explained arcane mechanic that makes no sense logically. Xoris isn't an issue, but a symptom. 

[darknite323]

But this doesn't make those abilities OP, all it does is make keeping combo counter up more convenient, people will just go back to using Naramon and instead of being "forced" (which they aren't) to use Xoris they will be  "forced" to use Naramon.

This fixes nothing, it just pushes those back to the old way of doing things.

If anything, having Xoris opened up MORE options, removing it gives less.

Feels like a knee-jerk reaction to me, but not sure what else I expected, this is usually how it goes.

A better fix, instead of just outright breaking it when used with Exalted abilites, would have been to maybe give it a longer than normal Combo counter, say 15 or 20 seconds.
Giving the weapon an infinite combo counter and not expecting some kind of abuse is very short-sighted, but so is just blocking its use entirely.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS! 😋