Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[marelooke]

3 minutes ago, TheTodesfall said:

"The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities" this is not true the xoris build in tactical potato's and brozime's videos can be done with rivens before the xoris was a thing and will be a thing after this "fix" xoris just added the comforrt of not looking at the anoying timer on the combo if you are using naramon it's the exact effect but but almost nobody does that why it's anoying to not have zenurik for most people your game is a power fantasy knora had and will have after this "fix" the best 1 out of the bunch

• Ash Bladestorm
• Atlas Landslide
• Baruuk Serene Storm
• Excalibur Exalted Blade
• Khora Whipclaw
• Valkyr Talons
• Wukong Iron Staff

the other ones are useless they are not worth the energy consumed to cast it.

The problem is clearly Rivens, they were supposed to increase build flexibility, not be straight upgrades (dixit DE, at the time). Guess what they turned out to be?

I'm now just waiting for Riven mods to become basically mandatory to get through content.

[Siaw]

Let’s compare the overwhelming power of the Xoris against the starting weapon:

Assuming they use the same mods the only difference is in the Rivens, so I’ll demonstrate using the lowest riven stats for the MK1-Bo and the highest stats for the Xoris

MK1-Bo Riven : 256% Melee Damage + 140% Elemental

Xoris Riven : 112% Melee Damage + 60% Elemental

This doesn’t even use the Syndicate Mods which add another source of damage.

See how overwhelmingly strong is the Xoris? So strong than even the MR0 weapon is BETTER in terms of damage?

The Xoris was just a convenient weapon that could make a game mechanic bearable, by nerfing it you’re only getting rid of more options and making stat sticks ‘Naramon or you’re doing it wrong’

 

 

[PedraForlorn]

ok so with xoris deisapearing ... what is the way to mod the statstick to have a similar large combo counter for the exalted weapons

[Prime_Reckoner]

10 minutes ago, PedraForlorn said:

ok so with xoris deisapearing ... what is the way to mod the statstick to have a similar large combo counter for the exalted weapons

you need venka prime

[(PSN)ironfist_94]

12 hours ago, SudoSamurai said:

Just came across Brozime's video on this. You can roll your eyes and dismiss if you want, but based on the fact that you guys make changes like this in the face of perfectly reasonable takes like his is why I generally side with the content creators like him.

The tl;dr I wanted to put up here is this is why I basically stopped playing Warframe. You guys spend time putting new weapons and frames in the game when you should be creating a more cohesive story, new player experience, and giving us more to do that isn't fodder like Railjack. But then you have these wild takes that go completely against the fun or convenience experienced by the player base, making it not only a waste of time for you, but also for the players who Forma'd the Xoris and invested in builds.

Nighwave intermission sat for what, 150 days or somesuch? And after you guys promised it would be less chorey things after season 1, it's all the same stuff. Meanwhile, the gameplay loop for games like Phantasy Star Online 2 (which have similar systems, loops, and even harsher monetization structures in some cases) is more fun and rewarding. And it's been out since 2013. It's cool, though, cause you guys released Protea with a feature people have been asking that Vauban have since before his first rework.

There's just too much clear cut nonsense in your decision making process that really makes it seem like you guys are looking at this game from an entirely different perspective than the players. Which is misguided at best. Time and again, you ignore existing problems in favor of new dumb garbage grinds like Railjack or pumping out new Warframes and weapons and Prime Access packs. It really seems like you guys lost your way from the vision you had and the people you were.

Far be it from me to suggest that Brozime's analysis and take are the ONLY relevant data around. As a new player, watching him damaged some of my perspective on the game as he doesn't openly advertise that he's mostly interested in end-game level content, so when he says something is "garbage" he usually means for that. So, for a long time, I played the game from the wrong perspective for the level of content I was going though and only later discovered I could have fun with all the stuff he said was bad. HOWEVER, the man knows what he's talking about AND he represents and important part of your player base, along with other high level content creators.

This game is still in a place where, if you don't look up content for it on YouTube, you're not going to have fun. Every time I tried to get friends to try this game out, the ones who did constantly ran into issues of feeling like they had no effect on enemies and stuff took forever to kill.
"Farm this mission to get this weapon, then use these mods on it"
"Where does it tell you this?"
"Nowhere in game. This is a build from YouTube"

They felt the content was repetitive, there's no interesting story to speak of because it's not brought to you in any kind of interesting, cohesive way to get you hooked and keep you going.
"Go check your codex for quests"
"Why doesn't it tell me that? Why isn't there a clear story path? Why should I care about what's happening in this game?"

Farming things is supposed to be the gameplay, but what happens when you get the thing you want or maybe you've played for awhile and you get everything? A well made game rewards you for playing and makes you feel like playing more will yield more rewards, thus motivating you to continue. Warframe doesn't even tell you what to get or how to get it. Your starer frame choice can VASTLY change your experience, the weapons you either farm or choose to spend platinum on (cause the game presents you with an easy-to-get-to storefront but doesn't really say "you can go farm this here") can vastly change how effective you are or how easy it will be to scale up to higher levels. When I started, I had no idea how to proceed until I went to YouTube, then I was in the blender of high-level content creators and their tier lists and telling the friends who were playing with me at the time "ok, go for these frames, these other ones are garbage" (only later, after they had lost interest, realizing I was negatively shaping their experience as well).

And then, back when you did have me hooked with the loops you had created, you start branching off into weird stuff like Railjack and making it such a pain in the ass grind that it's not even really worth it. It's not fun, no matter how cool and shiny it is. You have content creators coming out in droves talking about how busted it is, but that doesn't matter and doesn't get your attention. I did the things, farmed the ship, and I'd be happy if I never did another Railjack mission ever again. I'd be happy if the base gameplay of Warframe got to where it was fun and rewarding again. The very fact that Scarlet Spear didn't make you guys take a serious pause and rethink your approach to content and this game is telling in that you really don't know what you're doing or how you want to do it.

And now at MR 26 with a lot of time invested, I just don't have reason to care anymore. Even the new frames aren't reason enough to come back. And the new weapons? Well, that circles us right back to where we started nicely, doesn't it? You put a weapon in the game everyone could easily get. A way to reward them for doing new content. You waited forever for it to get popular and for people to Forma and use the hell out of it, then you told them you're taking away the reason it was so fun and convenient. Please explain to me which player tier I need to be at where that wouldn't bother me? A new player would be devastated for the time and Forma lost, and an old, tired player like myself is justified in every reason I've just given for staying away from the game. If I had jumped back in for the cool new weapon, it would've been a complete waste of time.

The fact that you're willing to completely gut something you JUST PUT into the game that performs a function similar to other things the game has had forever, meanwhile you're leaving your lucrative Riven market intact, really shows your true intent, even if you won't come out and say it yourself. And the problem for you is that even if you genuinely aren't trying to make sure people are still pushed in that direction, that's how it seems. That's how the player perspective will see it. Only people giving you the benefit of the doubt, like Brozime, will see it as genuine knee-jerk nonsense, which isn't really any better.

I'm at the point now where I don't even want to spend more time formulating my thoughts better or editing this post to make it more cohesive and organized, because I know it won't matter anyways (ironic, right?). I'm tired of the amount of work I have to put in for the very little fun I get in return. There are other grinds I can participate in that have much better ratios in games much better designed and executed than Warframe. If you guys want to keep this dream alive, you need to take a step back, look at yourselves, and really try to get back to things like "we changed movement in the game because of this one weapon build people could use to slingshot across maps, because people were having fun with it." That's the DE that was making legendary, breathtaking stuff. That's not who you guys are, anymore.

THIS. DE. LISTEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. STOP DESTROYING THE GAME. nearly everyone here has posted articulate and reasonable responses to your decision-making. people can defend you all they like, but at the end of the day, people will stop playing a game that doesn't value their time.

[Neohazukibr2]

 

The problem is not a xoris, this problem is repeated. I believe in 2 solutions:

1) Rivens does not pass for an exalted one.

2) Exalted has fixed status like a normal weapon (can be scaled to high levels).

The Xoris is not the best weapon for a Khora and many experienced players know this. The convenience that Xoris represents is easily eliminated in multitudes.

 

Thank you for all gods Tenno

[SordidDreams]

On 2020-07-01 at 5:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

The solution: The change coming with The Steel Path Update is to have the affected Warframe Exalted Abilities / Exalted weapons reset the Melee Combo Counter ONLY if the Xoris is being used.

I have a better solution: Rather than changing the Xoris, change all other melee weapons so that their combo only decays when they're being held. That way all melee weapons will become as convenient as the Xoris, ending its dominance in your precious usage charts.

[UltimateGrr]

3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

I have a better solution: Rather than changing the Xoris, change all other melee weapons so that their combo only decays when they're being held. That way all melee weapons will become as convenient as the Xoris, ending its dominance in your precious usage charts.

And now you've rendered every warframe without an Exalted melee weapon option or an ability that scales off melee combo utterly obsolete in the vast majority of content.  Great job fixing it, hero.

[SordidDreams]

14 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

And now you've rendered every warframe without an Exalted melee weapon option or an ability that scales off melee combo utterly obsolete in the vast majority of content.  Great job fixing it, hero.

By that logic, they're already obsolete. As many others have pointed out, the Xoris isn't even the most powerful option for those frames, it's simply the most convenient. Those other, more powerful weapons simply require you to deactivate your exalted weapon once every 30 seconds and poke someone with the regular melee to maintain the combo. Now I'm not a professional game designer, but even I know inconvenience isn't a valid game balancing mechanism.

[Bohba13]

Thanks. 

I love this game but this is like what WG was doing to WoWS way back when I quit. Ruining a great game with boneheaded decisions.

[SalemKillsKittens]

The Xoris is a quality of life weapon and it helps us ramp up to the damages we're looking for without keeping an eye on a combo counter with a body count/drifting contact weapon. The biggest issue in this game is not the Xoris or its interaction with abilities. The issue is a lack of content, lack of bosses that dont rely on invulnerability stages and lastly that rivens can influence warframe abilities. If you find the Xoris to be a problem and turn a blind eye to the rivens' interactions with warframe abilities, your ignorance is the problem.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

I'm not a fan of this but there's nothing that can be done to stop or negotiate the decision to bury a good thing. No one was forcing anyone to use the Xoris, it just complimented a handful of things making them more powerful than they already were in a game where power fantasy is the name of the game.

[AlphaRyuuxx]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

ask and ye shall recieve.

 

 

This is what kinda ticks me off the most. DE has stopped asking why

Why is the xoris being used to much? Well because its convenient. Why is it convenient? Because we can build 12x combo and not have to worry about it and can utilize frames that benefit off them and its easily accessible without a slot machine. tldr its easy to use without too much investment and it gives us something to use that isn't a riven. Why don't people like rivens? Because its an awful slot machine that does nothing but eat money and time with 0 sense of progression. You say you'll never release rivens for warframes and that you never intended for it to 'boost warframe damage' yet the xoris never did that. If anything it's weaker than some of the stat sticks that has existed for a long time. You don't wish to release stuff that consequentially boost warframe yet rivens have existed for a long long time and have been a problem for a long long time. Once again it all boils down to DE has stopped asking, WHY?

DE you need to start asking questions instead of jumping the gun. Sometimes you think you know what the problem is but asking the players who play your game will often enlighten you on the situation. And this is another notion of DE wanting the players to fit their mold instead of the other way around.  Years ago, where DE would adapt, change, and integrate. Remember helicoptering? DE's response back then wasn't to just remove it. They asked why were people doing this and realized it was because people liked the fast movement, and so they implemented a new way for movement for players

 

 

[Old_Fogie]

So, Brozime throws down the "WHY" gauntlet, and an additional throw down "WHY" on Twitter, and not one peep from the PTB"s? Huh... Well, now that's just surprising.

 

[GREF_TM]

20 hours ago, (PS4)primusmark10 said:

even the poster boy Excalibur’s Exalted Blade can be outpaced by a Broken War as well as a Skana of all things

Kinda disagree there. Damage-wise, between stance damage multipliers, guaranteed status and 100%+ CC with avenger, EB is decent enough IMO. What's really lacking is overall usability. It's waves are bad, especially if you compare them to baruuk's waves. If they were bigger (easier to hit multiple enemies) and had better travel time, as well as heavy attack had a bigger wave of its own, even without any direct damage buffs EB would be in a way better shape than it is right now.

 

But as it is now, rather than building around EB, it's easier to pick something like heavy attack stropha and go for a max range blind instead. It will do well enough against even against higher level heavies, deal with crowds better (and warframe is a crowd shooter, so it's important), probably even in steel path missions if you boost it with blind, while having no energy cost whatsoever... and at this point, why am i even playing excal, when i can just use said stropha on a frame with a better kit instead? Damn, it sucks to be excal 'main'.

[Ice_Peck]

Cute kneejerk reaction DE.

 

But this change is a blatant lie to anybody with any semblance of a developed mass of brain tissue.

 

You are -- in fact -- TAKING AWAY PLAYER CHOICE. It is objective, statistically proven fact. Don't anger your player base yet again.... please....

[PlatinumSpecter]

Sounds like garbage.  The xoris is definitely not a weapon of indisputable best performance invalidating others.  The only thing of indisputable best performance are max disposition melee weapon top notch rolled rivens.  I liked the Xoris because it was convenient, that I didn't have to use naramon to preserve my combo counter if I'm not using melee just for a few seconds.   The only strength the xoris had was it's infinite combo duration for exalted melee, other than that it has become useless mastery rank fodder in my inventory and I'm very annoyed that a few days after I invested a catalyst and forma's on it is already garbage.  Why is this happening?  It was obvious it was going to be popular, that's why it was given a disposition to make it of indisputable worst performance with rivens.  It's popular not because it amplifies damage, any weapon can do that better, it's popular because many people enjoy the convenience, don't want to be restricted in focus school and don't care much for investing heavily in rivens that could just hit a disposition nerf anyway.  So what's the problem with us using it?  This nerf is definitely not removing of restrictions, it's additive of restrictions.  The xoris itself was the only removal of a restriction as it allowed exalted melee frames to be able to relax a bit in terms of keeping up the combo.  Now everyone has to run naramon if they want to stay at max combo counter!

I hope this nerf is reconsidered, in a cancelling manner.

[Azamagon]

21 hours ago, LoneTonberry said:

As many have already said, the Xoris isn't the issue. It might look like it is because of a sudden usage spike as people who were getting by with these abilities with whatever rivened stat stick they had or were avoiding using these frames because they didn't have a good stat stick for them suddenly started using them. Numbers wise the Xoris doesn't give any actual damage benefit. It just makes it easier to maintain that damage. Now there can be an argument about whether or not you should be able to maintain that damage forever and how much "work" should be required to do so but that's not the discussion being had here. The discussion is being framed as if the Xoris is some godly damage stick that is breaking these abilities when that just isn't true. I played Whipclaw Khora before and after the Xoris and I've even gone back to it since the Xoris to make sure I wasn't misremembering and even with my mediocre Dokrahm riven and a similar build I saw way higher damage with my Dokrahm. For me and I'm sure many others what the Xoris did was allow me to be more flexible in my play style, and incorporate more utility into my build without feeling like I'm dragging the team down by being inefficient.

What I personally would rather see is some TLC given to these exalted abilities. My own personal preference for the equippable exalted melee weapons would be to decouple them from their respective abilities in a sense. Much like you already do with frame specific cosmetics turn the exalted melee into a frame specific alternative melee that the frame can equip and let us just use it normally. Or do like you do with Garuda where her Talons are her default melee as long as she doesn't have a melee equipped. Then, the ability itself becomes the buff portion of the current ability maybe with an added buff if you're equipped with the exalted melee. Take away any benefit from stat sticks and let them be modded with the Acolyte mods.

So in the case of Valkyr let us equip her talons as a base melee weapon. So then when Valkyr casts Hysteria, have her equip the exalted melee over her current melee as it does now if she's using a different one. Maybe give it a buff in damage if she actually has the talons equipped as her melee weapon.

For Excalibur, you could tie the energy waves and the blind on slide attack to having the energy from his ult imbued into the blade but let him just use the sword normally the same way, summoning the sword over his equipped melee if not equipped and perhaps increasing its power if you do have it equipped.

Exalted abilities are a little trickier because they require a decision about their design philosophy. Are you okay with stat sticks for these abilities, or aren't you? The answer to that has massive implications in how to move forward with them. If you aren't okay with stat stick weapons then just like you did with the other exalted weapons I don't really see a way around them being separately moddable without massive buffs to the damage of these abilities and how they scale. If you're okay with stat sticks then either way Rivens and other weapon augments/passives need to be excluded from the calculations. With the talk of wanting build diversity allowing these things to affect these abilities destroys that because it's either "you're stuck with what you've got" or "heh, 5/5 dispo weapon with augment/passive or you're doing it wrong" which the perception that it's become "Xoris or you're doing it wrong" points to that mentality also being unacceptable. But we can't just remove riven interactions because then it just changes what weapon is the "or you're doing it wrong" choice. If you just remove riven interaction but keep the combo counter stuff and allow Blood Rush to affect the abilities then it actually does make Xoris the only "optimal" option if its infinite combo duration is allowed to carry over.

So what do we do? Either way, I don't think the current proposal of making these abilities reset the counter if you're using the Xoris is the correct one because it also does damage to build diversity because it makes the Xoris actively worse than any other option. "Xoris or you're doing it wrong." just becomes "Xoris? You're doing it wrong." What I personally think should be done I'm not sure it's possible is that these abilities should have their own internal combo counter and not run off the melee one. This separate combo counter should not be affected by mods in the weapon and should either be already infinite, or have a much longer duration than the standard melee combo counter. You can then have Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds in the weapon calculate based on this combo counter and not the standard melee counter based on the ability's own internal crit/status chance as well as the other equipped mods like you already do.

I really hope this feedback helps. I don't really comment on the forums much but I've really enjoyed this game since Closed Beta and want to see it do well. Cheers and stay safe.

Excellent post!

Imo, I think the healthiest thing to do would be the following steps:
 

1. Make the semi-exalted abilities (Landsldie etc) seperately moddable - and they can now use ALL melee mods (Acolyte mods and such)
2. Make Naramon's Power Spike the default combo dropoff (Alternatively: Make the combo counter unlimited in duration by default for all melee, like on the Xoris, but I feel that's a bit too heavyhanded and invalidates a lot of the current mods and systems)
3. A Warframe which utilizes the melee combo counter in its kit now has two combo counters. Wether you use your melee weapon or a Warframe melee-ability, both counters increase at the same time if you use your melee or Warframe melee-ability. However, the first counter is for your melee weapon, and its falloff and buildup is entirely based on the melee weapon's modding. The second one is your Warframe melee counter, and its combo interaction, both falloff and buildup, is based on your Warframe melee-modding (be it an exalted or semi-exalted ability's modding). This means that if you put a max rank Body Count on your melee weapon, but not on your Exalted/Semi-exalted modding, your Exalted/Semi-exalted combo buildup will drop every 3 seconds, but for your melee weapon it will drop every 15 seconds. Likewise, if you have Quickening on your melee weapon, but not your Exalted/Semi-exalted modding, and you do 5x +1 combo attacks with your Exalted melee, you'll gain 5 combo points to your Exalted melee combo counter, but your melee weapon's combo counter potentially has more, depending on how many times Quickening procced for it (so it might have 5 to 10 points, for example).
4. Rebalance Naramon's Power Spike, and potentially some of the combo-related melee mods too.

One extra reason why I'd suggest to utilize Naramon's combo dropoff as the default system, is because I found out this stupid trick: If you have a pretty high combo counter, and you have decent combo efficiency (Reflex Coil, Zenurik's Inner Might etc), you can keep the combo duration up with a decent counter by just using a heavy attack when the timer is running low - instead of making the counter drop to 0 in case you do nothing. To give a numerical example:

Say you have a 12x combo counter. If you let the combo duration run out, you'll drop to 0 (unless you have Naramon). However, due to having some combo efficiency, if you do a heavy attack when the duration gets low, you'll maybe drop to just a 10x combo counter, and the duration is reset - even if you don't hit any enemy.

Imo, that current kind of wonky interaction just feels off. If you had Naramon's dropoff by default, however, you be better off just saving your heavy attacks until when you are actually fighting enemies.

 

[Old_Fogie]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

In fairness to twitter right now it is uh.... Middle of the zonking night and on the weekend. Give them til late monday before clubbing them on the head there.

Fair point. But wasn't really clubbing them on the head. More of a gentle tap in with a putter, as opposed to using a 5 iron.

[tipsy_princess]

brozime fans be like: lets make a 40 pages of copy-paste irrelevant ex partner opinion, because we don't have our own.

[Kunow]

This patch make Xoris useless, while it let Khora in her super super op state .. just as intended right ? ahah

[(PSN)Yggranya]

On 2020-07-01 at 6:55 PM, [DE]Megan said:

As stated above, we are doing this because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others and such an interaction does not warrant changes to base Warframes as a whole.

If you nerf this "because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others" why won't you nerf the nuker warframes? I don't play anymore because in every single mission there is AT LEAST one nuker who makes the entire rest of the team trivial. If there is more than one, it gets a little funny as they start racing to try to hit their OP nuke before the other. It's not the same in that it limits my choice, it's the same in that it invalidates my choice when someone else can make the game boring for everyone. "Team work" is a joke and as long as the nukers exist, i won't be coming back. I realize you propably remain unmoved and/or have no power to decide these things anyway but i just had to say this. Hopefully you will tell someone that can do something about it.

[Evil-Ninja]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

If you nerf this "because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others" why won't you nerf the nuker warframes? I don't play anymore because in every single mission there is AT LEAST one nuker who makes the entire rest of the team trivial.

This^ There are 10 times more annoying aspects in this game. People don't play Nukeframe and Turretframe because it is boring and it completely nullifies interaction and team play. Popping out Saryn, Limbo or Mesa will piss people off every single time. Players do control their impulses to nuke the entire map while standing in one spot, never move and use other frames and gear when playing together. However there is still skill and investment involved and not everyone can do it. If you are going to use the logic that it forces people to use only one weapon you failed. I myself read these and I know it was written by those who know the game better than anyone else, know what effect it is going to have beforehand and see a deeper meaning behind the lies. Not all of us are "Registered Losers" and we don't appreciate being treated as such.

[(NSW)RATHURUE]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

1. Rebalance Naramon's Power Spike, and potentially some of the combo-related melee mods too.

One extra reason why I'd suggest to utilize Naramon's combo dropoff as the default system, is because I found out this stupid trick: If you have a pretty high combo counter, and you have decent combo efficiency (Reflex Coil, Zenurik's Inner Might etc), you can keep the combo duration up with a decent counter by just using a heavy attack when the timer is running low - instead of making the counter drop to 0 in case you do nothing. To give a numerical example:

Say you have a 12x combo counter. If you let the combo duration run out, you'll drop to 0 (unless you have Naramon). However, due to having some combo efficiency, if you do a heavy attack when the duration gets low, you'll maybe drop to just a 10x combo counter, and the duration is reset - even if you don't hit any enemy.

Imo, that current kind of wonky interaction just feels off. If you had Naramon's dropoff by default, however, you be better off just saving your heavy attacks until when you are actually fighting enemies.

 

How do you intend to 'rebalance' Power Spike, pray tell? 20 combo dropoff is already pretty good compared to needing to build combo again for scratch, which takes 200+ hits. If you want to make a change to Power Spike, do it AFTER the suggested combo dropoff has been implemented, otherwise DE would think it's good to add to the dropoff by like, 'combo counter decreases by 2 stage after 10 seconds not hitting'.

On your point about that 'stupid trick', it's probably unintended interaction, or maybe it's due to the attack hitting an enemy somewhere you can't see. Please do more through test on simulacrum and report your finding!

1 hour ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

If you nerf this "because restricting your choice to a single weapon for indisputable best performance invalidates all others" why won't you nerf the nuker warframes? I don't play anymore because in every single mission there is AT LEAST one nuker who makes the entire rest of the team trivial. If there is more than one, it gets a little funny as they start racing to try to hit their OP nuke before the other. It's not the same in that it limits my choice, it's the same in that it invalidates my choice when someone else can make the game boring for everyone. "Team work" is a joke and as long as the nukers exist, i won't be coming back. I realize you propably remain unmoved and/or have no power to decide these things anyway but i just had to say this. Hopefully you will tell someone that can do something about it.

If nuker frame bothers you so much, why don't you play solo? Warframe is perfectly, entirely possible to do solo.

'But some missions are easier to do with team!' You might say, and yes, some missions are easier to do in team. Such missions are Defense, Interception, Excavation, Rescue and their Void Fissure variant, which accidentally(lol), where Nukeframes are often used. So what if other people wanna do these missions quicker? So what if you don't get to flaunt your skills on the mission summary screen? The most important point is that YOU CLEARED THE MISSION. You got all the rewards, even if you don't contribute anything. Any enemies killed by your group drops exp and items, after all. Some people would be happy to be carried. But if you're the kind who wanted to get kills, participate in the mission, or whatever that gets your ego stroked, GO SOLO. Nothing is wrong with that, ain't it? It's literally a no-problem for most players, but there's still people like you who whines about it. Limbo preventing you from doing damage? If you can kill those enemies faster than the Limbo could CC them, SAY SO IN CHAT. Saryn nuking enemies to oblivion? Cut off the spore route by killing enemies with abilities. Equinox nuking the room? Say thanks to them for free EXP. Volt nuking the room? Same.

Bottomline is they didn't 'invalidate' your choice. YOU invalidated your own choice by joining random team. You wanted to play the game your way. People also wanted to play the game their way. If you can't compromise with other people's way, why other people need to bend to your ways? Go solo, or go make a group with people with same thought as you. Nobody getting antagonized, everybody's happy.

Anyway, going into tangent here. There's no connection between 'DE won't accept that their own design created the problem that was (un)intended weapon interaction getting nerfed and makes everyone mad' and 'nerf nukeframe because it violates my play'; don't bring another unrelated point to the current problem. If you aren't playing this game in it's current state anyway, so get off the discussion and bring your rant somewhere else.

[LoneWolf9989]

On 2020-07-01 at 5:01 PM, Frost_King said:

yeah, it was fun, interesting and great to play around with.  Kinda wish I hadn't wasted all that forma on the Xoris now. 

It's not really wasted, It's still useful for GV