Serious discussion: MR30 will result in the biggest backlash DE have seen no matter what they do [Very long read warning]

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

 

Then there are the ones that don't deserve respect because it was never earned. When I see content creators that use titles like Best Build and Immortal Tank I pretty much write them off. There is no such thing as a best build, there are good builds that fit peoples play style, but that does not mean it will work for everyone. If any frame is truly immortal then it's because they are abusing a bug or some other broken mechanic in the game. Making a video showcasing any such mechanic will just get other people to abuse it too. When DE eventually fixes it they can then release a rant video condemning DE for nerfs and taking all the fun out of the game. They created a situation that builds people up before the eventual let down and then they tell them exactly what they want to hear. It's a cheap tactic that's easy to spot but people fall for it over and over. It get views and followers but not my respect. 

 

 

Indeed, I factor those out immediately. 

 

For me a basic presentation of the build, an explanation of how it works and why suffice. I don't need large numbers for the 'sale' of the content. Great content creators explains things in less than two minutes going straight to the point explaining why certain build works. They show the weapon selection the builds and the war frame build. I am not interested on fancy music, game exploits or any other over powered exploit that has the potential to ban accounts or stop working due to DE fixes. 

I don't watch many content creators because 99 percent of these content creators are flashy. I prefer the super short presentation that provides a true insight of the build and is no longer than 2 minutes. These are the types of content creators that I watch. Rarely they don't reach five. Those are very few and rare. Good content creators are very scarce. The few that are out there are not so popular. They deliver honest builds that are fair for the given expectations. 

 

 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I take it you didn't watch this Friday's devstream?

Let me see that link. 

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

Let me see that link. 

 

[Felsagger]

37 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Well delivered evidence. 

Well, now I am aware of the given content. This is the word of the developers. That's good. 

 

To be honest I was not expecting this. The amount of reward is fair but it needs a bit more. Something special like a Forma Simulator, a mission simulator or a horde play ground with certain features for 'training'. 

These recommendations CAN SERVE dojos' revitalization. Many of them are simply empty. I want to see more activity in them or a reason to populate them. Forma simulator can be done for one player in his orbiter and four players in the Dojo. Maximun four guys connected with a HOST leader that adjusts the parameters. 

The idea should not be reduced only to an insignia or an icon. It should gives a new angle of the game that we already played for seven years. Something new? No. But something that adds a new degree of freedom and comprehension of the game. 

DE has everything for it. They don't need to add it right away but at least throw in some good advantages for MR 30s making the rest of the community go towards the reward. This will solidify the people who plays the game and give incentives to the sophomores. 

[AkyFenrir]

 

Le 07/07/2020 à 21:51, Jarriaga a dit :

 

--DE's impossible choice--

Once they add start designing the MR30 ranking test because the content amount is getting there, DE will have to make a choice with regards to which camp to please.

If a badge, trophy or glyph is revealed to be what lies behind MR30 then I would have saved myself from grinding 56 Liches, all K-Drives, all Railack intrinsics, and any new weapon release that didn't fit into my playstyle once I reached MR16 had I known earlier that It would not be worth the grind. And everyone will know too.

At the same time, if they do lock a valuable gameplay-related reward behind MR30, those who don't want to feel pressured to farm mastery, those who don't like Railjack instrinsic farming, those who don't want to invest 80 Forma so you can get all the mastery from all 16 Lich weapons, all those who don't want to play hard mode will be the ones who will feel let down by DE. 

So I guess DE will have to choose which group to cater to and please with MR30. The people who don't want to feel like mastery grind is mandatory by locking something big behind it are as equally important as players who want for the hundreds of hours and resources and dedication compensated and for the reward to feel like something worth grinding for for those who stopped grinding mastery.

There is no middle ground there. Or at least I can't even imagine what a middle ground would look like between "Make 7 years worth of content worth the grind" and "Don't make 7 worth of content grind feel mandatory".

I would not want to be on DE's shows when it happens. MR30 will represent a celebration. The realization of the game staying strong to the point the "highest" possible tier they could imagine so many years far away was now true. It will be a milestone.... That will be tarnished by backlash no matter what they do.

What do you guys think and why? Where do you stand? Let's help DE a little here by trying to tackle the topic with respect since I myself don't see how a compromise can be reached beyond just adding MR31 and completely killing the idea of MR30 representing any form of milestone or goal to reach.

So you've been farming and you can't accept the time you've spent when you realised you wouldn't get anything special?

You're funny :)

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

So you've been farming and you can't accept the time you've spent when you realised you wouldn't get anything special?

You're funny :)

Quoting myself again:

On 2020-10-09 at 3:30 PM, Jarriaga said:

I myself am very pleased because prestige solves all of the problems I highlighted in the OP.

Well done, DE.

[sitfesz]

@AkyFenrir You got rekt mate.

[Methanoid]

On 2020-10-11 at 8:49 AM, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

At MR30, DE should introduce a mechanic whereby if you don't log-in at least once per week or two weeks, you lose one MR per missed log-in cycle until you are back at MR0, whereby the mechanic deactivates.

Alternately, when your MR hits 0, the game uninstalls and makes your profile inactive until you play again.

MASTERY — THIS IS THE WAY

no thanks, some of us have challenge zero's, we dont want to be mixed up with the part timer zeroes :)

[(XBOX)lll HB lll]

Le 12/10/2020 à 15:04, Jarriaga a dit :

Quoting myself again:

were you really happy with these rewards?

The Blessing system pleased me.

But the rest for players who spent 6 years playing and reached mastery 30, is nothing

How does the prestige system work?

[AConfusedBird]

On 2020-10-11 at 2:49 AM, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

At MR30, DE should introduce a mechanic whereby if you don't log-in at least once per week or two weeks, you lose one MR per missed log-in cycle until you are back at MR0, whereby the mechanic deactivates.

Alternately, when your MR hits 0, the game uninstalls and makes your profile inactive until you play again.

MASTERY — THIS IS THE WAY

completely setting aside the fact that it's perfectly reasonable for people to step away from a game for however long they care to, and punishing them for that is nonsensical and cruel...

how in the world would we get our MR back?

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, AConfusedBird said:

completely setting aside the fact that it's perfectly reasonable for people to step away from a game for however long they care to, and punishing them for that is nonsensical and cruel...

how in the world would we get our MR back?

blood

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

If they prevent you from making progress while you grind, they can release things later and make you grind for it then.  Gotta spread it all as thin as possible.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, (XB1)lll HB lll said:

were you really happy with these rewards?

The Blessing system pleased me.

But the rest for players who spent 6 years playing and reached mastery 30, is nothing

How does the prestige system work?

Yes I was and still am. Mainly because it's actually more than I expected, but in a different way. The prestige system means I won't hit a hard wall. They didn't explain how the legendary ranks (Prestige) will work, but at the bare minimum they said they will allow you to continue to accumulate mastery. 

3x Umbra Forma only sweetens the deal for me. The blessing mechanic is nice as well.

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2020-07-07 at 3:51 PM, Jarriaga said:

I initially made this post in a different thread but responses got me thinking that this needs a dedicated discussion.

--Preface--

Assuming DE's late 2020 goes into full gear like in previous years, we are most definitively hitting MR30 this year. Let's make count:

- Current MR needed for MR30 (Non-founder): 126,499

- Hard mode: 27,051

- 3 Prime frames and their weapons (2 per frame) left for this year: 36,000

- Broken frame with just 1 weapon assumed: 9,000

- The next frame after broken frame, assumed with 1 weapon (Because DE won't let the year pass with just 2 new frames [Protea & Broken]): 9,000

- Command Intrinsics: 15,000

- Late 2020 main expansion. On average for the past 4 years, that means at least 40,000 mastery on the conservative side.

Total amount of mastery to be introduced this year: 136,051. Even if we take Command out of the picture, the remaining amount (121,051) is so close that even 2 new weapons outside the ones expected with new frames will fill that out. And founders won't need those 2 extra weapons since they already have Skana, Lato and Excalibur Prime. 

So I think the conversation about what will happen at MR30 is a valid one.

--The Ultimate "Mystery" revealed--

This is discussion would have felt premature years ago, but not now. We are almost there. So what lies behind MR30? What is the thing many players have been working towards? That build-up and anticipation is what pushed me and many others towards farming all the mastery we can. The legendary MR30 mystery. The pinnacle. The summit. The ultimate goal as there is no such thing as MR31. 

Once the first person hits MR30 (Likely a founder), there will be no more mystery at that point. Players will know for sure from the get-go if the grind is worth it. And this in turn places DE in a rather uncomfortable position with a tough choice to make. 

--DE are stuck between a rock and hard place--

So let's imagine that you just passed the MR30 mastery rank test and all you get is an exclusive glyph or profile badge. That's it. Nothing more than that, which makes reaching MR30 100% optional with nothing lost for choosing not to pursue that path beyond the QoL benefits.

If a badge/trophy is what happens, it will be such an underwhelming and disappointing build-up towards MR30 over 7 years that it will most likely result in the biggest backlash DE have ever seen.

So now let's imagine there's something big and gameplay-related perk, game mode, feature or option that is unlocked at MR30. Let's imagine you get double the physical mod slots (And capacity), and/or the ability to build your Warframe from a modular system for the visual design while taking abilities from other frames based on the parts used to build it: The main WF BP for the passive, and the systems from a WF with the ability you want to add per slot. Or just imagine if you got the ability to permanently fuse Augments to frame abilities without taking mod slots. Whatever you can imagine, make it something that affects gameplay.

If a gameplay-altering reward is what happens, many people who don't want to feel like grinding mastery is mandatory will get angry. They will now be forced to engaged with systems they had no interest in because of what they will be losing otherwise because prior to this point they had a reason to say mastery past MR16 was pointless. Thus, this will most likely result in the biggest backlash DE have ever seen.

Either way DE lose. So what are they to do? I don't see a middle ground solution between those two camps: Either MR30 is worth the grind, or it is not.

--Impossible expectations--

Yes, you can argue that it's players setting themselves up for disappointment and that having such a build-up for years and years sets expectations and standards that are impossible for DE to meet, but just a badge or a trophy will only serve to kill any motivation to pursue a higher MR rank beyond QoL for mostly everyone else. Again: Once the first person hits MR30 there will be no more mystery at that point. Players will know for sure from the get-go if the grind is worth it. New players and those who stopped at MR16 despite thousands of hours of playtime in particular.

And we can already measure the tensions based on what you'd personally like to se. I am on the camp of "MR30 must give a really good reward that makes you feel like the grind is worth it". For example, I'd like for a modular frame system that lets me build a frame with the abilities I want from other frames, double mod slots and capacity and augment binding to be locked behind MR30. @SenorClipClop not only highlighted that this would may only please me and not others who are in the same camp, and furthermore it would disappoint him by virtue of making it feel like he is being punished for not following that path:

Which is a reasonable response that only goes to further highlight not only the problem of impossible expectations, but the problem of a situation with no apparent middle ground between players considering this is what he (And likely many others on the same camp as him) would like to in MR30:

And I agree with most of his post. Particularly with regards to impossible expectations and content creator reactions, but the last paragraph is precisely what I described as what would be extremely disappointing for a number of players (Myself included) by virtue of being amplified by hours of grind and engagement.

--DE's impossible choice--

Once they add start designing the MR30 ranking test because the content amount is getting there, DE will have to make a choice with regards to which camp to please.

If a badge, trophy or glyph is revealed to be what lies behind MR30 then I would have saved myself from grinding 56 Liches, all K-Drives, all Railack intrinsics, and any new weapon release that didn't fit into my playstyle once I reached MR16 had I known earlier that It would not be worth the grind. And everyone will know too.

At the same time, if they do lock a valuable gameplay-related reward behind MR30, those who don't want to feel pressured to farm mastery, those who don't like Railjack instrinsic farming, those who don't want to invest 80 Forma so you can get all the mastery from all 16 Lich weapons, all those who don't want to play hard mode will be the ones who will feel let down by DE. 

So I guess DE will have to choose which group to cater to and please with MR30. The people who don't want to feel like mastery grind is mandatory by locking something big behind it are as equally important as players who want for the hundreds of hours and resources and dedication compensated and for the reward to feel like something worth grinding for for those who stopped grinding mastery.

There is no middle ground there. Or at least I can't even imagine what a middle ground would look like between "Make 7 years worth of content worth the grind" and "Don't make 7 worth of content grind feel mandatory".

I would not want to be on DE's shows when it happens. MR30 will represent a celebration. The realization of the game staying strong to the point the "highest" possible tier they could imagine so many years far away was now true. It will be a milestone.... That will be tarnished by backlash no matter what they do.

What do you guys think and why? Where do you stand? Let's help DE a little here by trying to tackle the topic with respect since I myself don't see how a compromise can be reached beyond just adding MR31 and completely killing the idea of MR30 representing any form of milestone or goal to reach.

Lots of words man, but you know what I hoped MR30 would bring deep down? Instant forma-ing. Haha, color me stupid. Fine with the OP daily booster

[Skiritai]

Much ado about NOTHING.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

19 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Yes I was and still am. Mainly because it's actually more than I expected, but in a different way. The prestige system means I won't hit a hard wall. They didn't explain how the legendary ranks (Prestige) will work, but at the bare minimum they said they will allow you to continue to accumulate mastery. 

3x Umbra Forma only sweetens the deal for me. The blessing mechanic is nice as well.

Lol so much for the backlash no matter what they do right? People do seem pleased by the rewards and stuff...so where's the backlash? I take it it was just clickbait to start a conversation?

[Jarriaga]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Lol so much for the backlash no matter what they do right? People do seem pleased by the rewards and stuff...so where's the backlash? I take it it was just clickbait to start a conversation?

It seems to me you didn't notice the original posting date of this thread --OR-- you didn't read all the way to the end as the actual outcome was already presented as a possibility that would avoid all backlash by virtue of "not stopping":

On 2020-07-07 at 3:51 PM, Jarriaga said:

I myself don't see how a compromise can be reached beyond just adding MR31

That's what prestige is. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

It seems to me you didn't notice the original posting date of this thread --OR-- you didn't read all the way to the end as the actual outcome was already presented as a possibility that would avoid all backlash by virtue of "not stopping":

That's what prestige is. 

Hey man relax, I just saw the title and it sounded like you were passing it off as fact. I was just asking a question.

[rockscl]

everyone knows that at MR30 you get to play the whole MR Race again but in hard mode

[Slayer-.]

8 hours ago, rockscl said:

everyone knows that at MR30 you get to play the whole MR Race again but in hard mode

Already done that hard mode, it was called Steel Path. :P 

[ES-Flinter]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Slayer-.:

Already done that hard mode, it was called Steel Path. :P 

Actually DE said that Sterepath isn't hardmode. 

It is/ was only hardmode for the people who don't want to leave their starter equipment behind

 

[Slayer-.]

28 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Actually DE said that Sterepath isn't hardmode. 

It is/ was only hardmode for the people who don't want to leave their starter equipment behind

 

I did Steel Path solo, I guess if I wanted it harder I'd bring the two clannies with me, keeping them alive would be a hard challenge.  

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

On 2020-07-07 at 2:59 PM, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You’re really making a big deal out of nothing. MR 30 will just be like any other MR; a slight change to the mastery symbol, along with the usual increase to void trace and mod capacity, along with higher standing limit.

You make it out to be that MR 30 is some enormous milestone when it’s just not. Notable perhaps, but not this huge “I better get something extra special or I riot”

agreed it's just mastery rank it's not like it something over the top special people should be grateful that they're getting 3 umbra forma i know i am.