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The Steel Path: Update 28.1.0


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28 minutes ago, _Connor said:

100% of the forum is a tiny minority of players. Do you not understand how few players use this forum or whine about nerfs? 

Let's talk some numbers.  

DE has sold this game on having millions of registered users.  If you want the proof, look to the community meme of Rebecca accidentally saying "registered losers."  It was a fun slip of the tongue, but let's just call it proof and laugh.

 

Now, let's look at how many people are playing on PC, according to the Steam charts.  Peak player counts at about 80k people.  Let's further pare this down, and remove the crowd that's casual.  How do I define that?  Well (current peak)-(peak in Jan 2020) = casual players.  This means that about 30k of 80k are casuals, who don't engage enough to care about posting.  Let's call that an available pool of 50k players dedicated enough to care about the game from PC.  40 pages, assuming 25 posts per page, is about 1000 posts.  Cut out half of them, and we've got about 500 people commenting.  500/50000 is 1%. 

What else gives us a 1% participation, according to steam?  

Kuva Liches - 1.7%

Built a Moa - 1.5%

275 meter drop on the Orb Vallis - 1.0%

found all caves on orb Vallis - 0.7%

 

 

Wow.  It almost seems like the crowd that is willing to slog through this game, and has for some time, is about the same percentage of comments on the forum.  You're welcome to massage these numbers, but my point is that "it's a small percentage of users" is not a good stance.  The counter is "a small percentage of users is all that will care about this game enough to even get past the grind walls."

So, what's my point?  90% of users providing negative feedback is not something to ignore.  It's functionally the people who care about your game telling you to stop.  It's the same as the drive for a universal vacuum, making Liches suck less, getting all frames to a minimum base armor of 100, and finally getting shield gating.  You'll note with all of these that we had to drag DE kicking and screaming to give us these features.

Now we are told "if you're not using Xoris you're doing it wrong."  We respond back that whomever said that does not understand fundamental mechanics of the game. They don't understand that the issue is having to use stat-sticks on exalted melee, and how utterly dominating that melee is right now.  Heck, they don't even understand that if they make enemies sponges the only viable way we have to deal with them is melee, rendering 2/3 of our weapons useless.  Despite people pointing this out, DE took four weeks to nerf something that was not insanely powerful.  It was not broken.  It literally only let us not have to bounce back to refresh combo duration, which was a quality of life thing.  When you call quality of life choices "game breakingly powerful," and sell the fix as a nerf instead of addressing the real issue of the need for stat-sticks, then you look like an idiot.  You kept the Mire and Amphis, two weapons who can be even more powerful with a riven.  You maintain the release 1/5 disposition for a weapon, that has no other redeeming traits.  

 

Let me offer a parallel.  You park a car.  It rolls down the hill, and bumps into a neighbor's car.  The interaction is not desired, and the fix is to apply the parking break and perform regular checks on it.  Instead, you decide to let all of the air out of your tires to increase the stiction and prevent it from happening again.  The fix to that problem is not thought out, and you don't own a pump to refill the tires.  Don't worry, you can just drive it down the street and refill at the gas station...two months later the tires are constantly leaking because you've bent the rims.  All the while, you've moved on to the next set of tires which have more tread.  Despite having more tread, they leak.  You continue to address the underlying issue the same, create other issues on top, and it's all because you refuse to do the work of applying the parking break and inspecting it.  DE should make all warframe weapons modable, and control their powers without stat-sticks.  Years in and they still refuse, which will perpetuate the unintended interactions.  Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results...I think DE needs a straight jacket here by that logic.

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32 minutes ago, Karury said:

anyone knows how to unlock the Plains of Eidolon in Steel Path ??

 

Go to Konzu.  Check the Bounties.  There will be a new 6th tier, with a level at 100-100.  Once it's complete you've done the Plains.

 

Do be cautious.  The fallen drones still have pathing that gets stuck inside the mission selector tents occasionally, and there are a bunch of the normal progression bugs.  Best of luck....it's a high level version of things with rewards that do not match the difficulty...

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5 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Let me offer a parallel.  You park a car.  It rolls down the hill, and bumps into a neighbor's car.  The interaction is not desired, and the fix is to apply the parking break and perform regular checks on it.  Instead, you decide to let all of the air out of your tires to increase the stiction and prevent it from happening again.  The fix to that problem is not thought out, and you don't own a pump to refill the tires.  Don't worry, you can just drive it down the street and refill at the gas station...two months later the tires are constantly leaking because you've bent the rims.  All the while, you've moved on to the next set of tires which have more tread.  Despite having more tread, they leak.  You continue to address the underlying issue the same, create other issues on top, and it's all because you refuse to do the work of applying the parking break and inspecting it.  DE should make all warframe weapons modable, and control their powers without stat-sticks.  Years in and they still refuse, which will perpetuate the unintended interactions.  Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results...I think DE needs a straight jacket here by that logic.

To continue your metaphor there is also the 16 wheeler your neighbour has called rivens doing the same thingbut with more damage.

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56 minutes ago, Karury said:

anyone knows how to unlock the Plains of Eidolon in Steel Path ??

 

Do the Steel Path level bounty in cetus from konzu, same thing to unlock Orb Valis. Just do the Steel Path bounty. It even says Steel Path on the bounty

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Posted (edited)

Forcing old players to REPLAY the WHOLE game AGAIN  is not expected with this update.
I have waited for hard mode since they first talked about it. But this....

Maybe, i am the 0,1% of the playerbase who dislike this idea.

And zenith still bugged.  Who cares after a year?.   Not DE.  Not DE.

""This decision was made based on Public Test Cluster feedback."   
Seems, the general feedback is not enough now to make changes.   

Edited by MerlinSorcerer
Im full of dissapointment at this point. sorry.
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dear de,

you took a while to come up with this update. it is bug free as far as i can tell.

how is this update based on feedback? is there an explanation for why steel essence is the most sensible route to go? why do you insist upon introducing currency upon currency into the game? please tell me what i am to do with all my nanospores? if you want old players to grind, you've already got argon crystals and your sad excuses for open world because they died within a month of release. why must i grind for steel essence? to get the subjectively ugly operator armor? or is it the 10,000 kuva, which i would've been able to grind from a steel path kuva survival or a lvl100 cetus bounty if you actually knew how to set rewards? are you saying stance forma being exclusive to steel essence makes it a sensible choice? how? why not introduce steelier path with steelier essence in the future and add exilus forma to it too? oh wait, what if, you made a steeliest path with steeliest essence to buy universal forma for regular slots, which let us put whatever mod in said slot and half its drain. that would be very nice and very flexible, yeah?

i dont care about xoris in the least, but warframe has some other wacky combinations in the game already, so i dont see the point in the nerf because:

i.) xoris itself is garbage, so using it for a stat stick renders your melee slot more or less (relative to your overall build) useless. this is how min maxing works.
ii.) the bonus it gave may have been between decent to good at best, and like i've said, there are far more broken combinations existing in the game. 

so you did the public test thing, took our feedback, and came up with an indistinguishable reduction in tankiness in regular enemies, easier archwing because it is a garbage game mode, vay hek is still trash, regular rewards for higher level content, and then you shove another currency down our throats, and expect us to be entertained. incentive to play your game is approaching zero. now, if you wanted to throw just harder to kill enemies at us, good work. they are harder to kill, and i can enjoy that aspect. i like putting the effort in for those enemies (even though i dont have to because there are ways to cheese them, but why'd i bother with steel path if i could cheese them anyway). but then comes the rewards screen with garbage rewards because you're unwilling to bump the numbers up for some unknown reason. that leaves me with lesser and lesser incentive to kill the harder enemies and play steel path anyway. oh and i am assuming they do get harder to kill as you cover the star chart. is it the same rewards for then too? i dont know. im not willing to check it out right now. but i suppose some would say steel essence balances the rewards out. no, it does not. why does the cetus bounty still give warframe or weapon parts? im assuming the boss nodes give warframe parts too. im also guessing the other nodes that give unique rewards, still give the same rewards. but does it do anything for me? no. there's nothing new in it. i got harder enemies and nothing else. why would you imagine harder to kill enemies with relatively trash rewards would be anything short of bad. (no offense to steel essence)

this entire update feels disingenuous, unless you actually dont know what to do, in which case just read the feedback for goodness' sake.

i may sound harsh, and this post might be hasty, but i have no patience to keep hoping you'd do a good job next time. that, and given the amount of time taken to come up with this vs. what it gives me, i can only say that i do not understand the nuances of your development situation, but whatever it is, it might just kill your game. 

but on a less grim note, i don't have to stay in the simulacrum for too long. 

update rating: 6/10

You did get the fundamentals more or less right, again. but you messed up everything else. its like having a mustang's engine with a tuktuk's chassis.



 

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12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Xoris Interaction Changes:
Certain Warframe Abilities and Exalted weapons will now reset the Melee Combo Counter only if the Xoris is being used. The overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice.

YEAH BUT YOU JUST REMOVED THE CHOICE OF "I WANT TO USE THE XORIS LIKE THIS, OR NOT."

Jesus Christ.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

It's way better than naramon too, since it doesn't degrade at all.

It's nowhere near "way better" territory. Even without a riven on your statstick, you'll sit at 12x for 30 seconds, and then sit at 11x for another 120 seconds, and even then you'll still have 10x for yet another 120 seconds, and even if that wasn't enough, you'll still have yet another 120 seconds of guaranteed red crits after that, because to lose red crits, you need to drop to 8x. That's six and a half minutes of red crits without a riven. With a riven that gives 10 sec. of combo duration, for example, this time goes up to eight and a half minutes, and that's not even the highest value rivens can give you, i believe that max roll for amphis can hit 16+ seconds.

And if you really can't be bothered to switch off desert wind and hit a bunch of enemies a couple times within a 6-8 minute period, you must be the laziest warframe player i've ever seen.

Edited by GREF_TM
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3 hours ago, gryfinn said:

It wasn't "bonkers tier broken" though. That's the point.  It was merely a nice QOL item that actually dealt LESS damage overall than the go-to stat-sticks.  What made it nice is that you trade some damage for convenience, which seems a fair trade. For DE to claim they're nerfing it based on damage is disingenuous at best.  If DE doesn't want this type of interaction with stat-sticks, then they should rework or remove stat-stick/exalted weapon interaction altogether.  This weirdly veiled nonsense about it being "an unintended interaction" is a major reason why people are upset.  How could they not realize how it would interact with stat-stick Warframes?  Do they even play their own game?

I'm well aware that it didn't boost damage higher than a 1.5 dispo rivenned stat stick. On the other hand, the permanent combo duration goes leagues beyond the minor QoL advantage that many are suggesting here.

'bonkers tier broken' was admittedly hyperbolic but the second I saw the interaction, it was pretty damn clear this wasn't going to last.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Phredd_Pewter said:

the second I saw the interaction, it was pretty damn clear this wasn't going to last

And you'd think that people who designed, implemented and tested this weapon would've also notices such obvious implication and remove it before the update was even released, so this whole xoris situation wouldn't need to happen to begin with. Yet here we are.

 

It's almost like they don't know how their own game works. Hmmm...

Edited by GREF_TM
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10 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

And you'd think that people who designed, implemented and tested this weapon would've also notices such obvious implication and remove it before the update was even released, so this whole xoris situation wouldn't need to happen to begin with. Yet here we are.

 

It's almost like they don't know how their own game works. Hmmm...

Likely they tested it as a weapon and not while using these skills. It's seemed so far their playtesting isn't always as heavy as it could be.

In terms of comms to users, that's often a hard one. Moreso if they hadn't immediately decided what to do.

They definitely could have handled it better but my post was more about how ridiculous the playerbase tends to be about these sorts of things.

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Gref, have you ever you even played Baruuk or any of these frames besides Khora?  You never share the combo counter w your exalted w your actual melee.  So have fun getting DIRECT hits w serene storm, 12x worth, considering every hit is going to oneshot guys...and then you have to refresh this.  That actually is a lot of work.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Phredd_Pewter said:

how ridiculous the playerbase tends to be about these sorts of things

That's what you get when you first introduce something that "unintentionally" works the way it works, even though such interaction could've been immediately spotted by anyone who knows basic game mechanics, then come up with one of the most bizzare and insulting explanation on why it's getting nerfed, not giving away any compensations for for playing investments that went to waste, and if it wasn't already enough, completely ignoring all the negative feedback on this matter.

This is basically a khora "fix" 2.0, aka "we couldn't see this coming even though it technically was in a game for years, but now we don't like, and therefore we've decided to take it", and i personally think the reaction they got is not ridiculous, but actually pretty expected. If they at least came up with a better, reasonable explanation to this nerf, as well as gave away at least a forma as a compensation, people would've reacted in way, way more tame manner, i assure you.

 

1 hour ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

Gref, have you ever you even played Baruuk or any of these frames besides Khora?

Same question to you. Gladiator mod set is currently bugged, it completely ignores combo counter of your exalted weapon, and instead scales with a melee combo counter of your normal melee weapon, even if you currently have exalted weapon equipped and it has its own combo counter active, but seeing your reply, i'm starting to doubt you've ever played any of these frame to know that.

And no, it's not hard to disable serene storm every 2-3 minutes, hit a guy with your melee and go back into serene storm.

Edited by GREF_TM
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Posted (edited)

Oh, okay, so we're relying on a bug to justify xoris as "nowhere near" way better.  It frees up a slot for damage or a roll for damage at the very least.  I usually don't take Helios to arb, so outside of that, there's not many missions where I need that extra damage to worry about having to run naramon and switching to keep it up.

Edited by Lord_Dckrod
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54 minutes ago, Phredd_Pewter said:

the second I saw the interaction, it was pretty damn clear this wasn't going to last.

That's ironic, the moment I first saw "infinite combo duration" I thought "Wow! They're finally giving us something to make it less annoying to use these frames!" I thought the Xoris was a deliberate nod to stat sticks and the fact that all these frames (except Khora) don't see much use due to the annoyance in playing them, but I made the mistake of thinking they had any idea what they were doing.

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14 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To help prevent accidental Kuva Lich generation from quick tapping the Mercy action, you must now ‘Hold X’ to perform a Mercy on a Kuva Larvling.

This really should've been there from the beginning, but it's good that it's been added.

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4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

So because it doesn't effect your experience its not a problem? You are the worst kind of player. Also, if DE aren't cowards your rivens won't work on stat sticks soon enough, and i can't wait for the tears to flow because rivens are just objectively bad for the game. Also, the amount of 'whining' is justified, DE nerfed something that isn't overpowered, not even close, yet left something that is broken in place. You're not *@##$ing because it doesn't effect you, when your rivens are hopefully useless in a few months, lets see how you react. As for 'cheese frames' we don't have any of those. If you have a problem with another player clearing a map, the solo option is right there. 

Glad you missed the whole point of my post, just as expected.
reason why ppl use statsticks is because khora, atlas and others don't have their exalted weapons yet, if they do get them at some point then i would gladly toss my rivend statsticks aside and use the exalted. My 130 rolled kuva shildeg riven got nerfed during last balance patch, don't see me shedding waterfalls of tears.
point of the post is to not get attached to anything and stop acting like children when a toy gets taken away, there are hundreds of weapons to play with.

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Concerning xoris change i do not agree at all. It just bring comfort, allowing us not to constently looking at combo counter to keep it up. Every other weapon can do as great, (better with venka btw), just with the need to look at combo counter.

Now it's not (that was not ofc) 'Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ but 'if you use Xoris you're doing it wrong' because you can't use combo counter at all with it now.

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14 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention

how can this be an argument when other weapons are still better stat sticks due to not having a DoA riven dispo? I have at least 3 stat sticks that do much more damage than the Xoris could ever dream to do as a stat stick even without going for 12x combo.

that thing was convenient at best, since it let pseudo-exalted weapons be used without nearly as much upkeep while being visibly less powerful. now it's just another glaive, a weapon class most people don't run because it's clunky and still underwhelming despite the CO fix for it finally coming a few weeks ago.

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