We could use some further explanation on the Ophelia "fix"

[saghzs]

Edit: Since people apparently can't read properly, I'll put it in bold text:

I am aware that DE has every right to change whatever they want, this is not a post trying to ask for a undo.
I just want an explanation as for why the patchnotes and the actual changes don't line up.

 

 

 

 

 

First off, I am very aware that AFK farming is not exactly intended, and i fully understand DE patching out certain spots/methods that dominate everything else.

But i believe there are better ways to do it than we got with the Hotfix 29.2.1
Here is what the patchnotes say about it.

• Fixed a spot in the Grineer Sealab tileset where enemies struggled to jump down a hole as a team, which resulted in AFK farming.

This is not at all what actually got put in the game with the hotfix.
Enemies now simply have their AI disabled as soon as you jump down in to that spot, which makes it so they don't come near you at all.
You can see this very clearly in the video:

Spoiler

 

In addition to that, Enemies start rapidly despawning and respawning, which.. who knows, may cause some other issues.
As shown clearly in this video:

Spoiler

 

 

All I am asking is some more transparency.

Is this the way you intended for the fix to work, or is there something wrong with it?

If yes, why hide it behind a completly wrong description in the patchnotes?

 

And maybe also give us an update on your current stance of AFK farming, since it has been and will continue to be a major part of the game.

[trst]

Looks intended considering the way you demonstrated killing them from the location. Even if they continued towards you and tried to get down the hole properly nothing would be able to ever even get in sight of you.

Afk farming is something DE has had zero tolerance towards and is the one of the few things they'll patch instantly. Which could be why they don't want to spell out exactly how they fixed it as only afk farmers would pursue it further and explaining any new rules could help them find holes in it and get right back into it.

Though this is just speculation without DE giving specifics. But it would make sense given their history with the issue.

[tipsy_princess]

ye and it's also host related while client have no such issue, so this fix is only solo player punishment.

think a lot people would prefer active playing to afk, but sadly active has no single reason and benefit.

ofc it's not a vivergate or ss, but annoying to see same mistake of quick mindless fix-breaking some build-up gameplay due to "we not suppose it to be like that".

also dem annoying every time first have breaking fix and only way later have some adequate resolve of problem (or never).

as example adding bleed out timer to capture targets to prevent players from farming oxium on capture missions (the only way to make decent oxium back then). adding some another way to get oxium in reasonable time took month.

feels like asking questions becomes pointless (like lol. contagion explain? how long it lasts already?), the further it goes the worser it becomes ^_^

[_Anise_]

would have thought a simpler fix would have been fixing the hole rather than screwing around with how the AI works

[taiiat]

6 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

would have thought a simpler fix would have been removing the hole rather than screwing around with how the AI works

if that was the primary strategy implemented, the game would turn into a corridor shooting for the most part, with the amount of stuff that would get deleted.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It's really not that complicated.....you farm by playing normally and patrolling a small area.

Find a room, not a cubby hole....a hallway or something. 

You guys knew exactly what you were doing... why play dumb?

[Aldain]

...Why are you even playing Warframe if AFK farming was that important?

At that point I have to wonder if people who were doing this even actually enjoy playing the game anymore.

Maybe the tagline for the game should be changed to "Warframe: Ninjas play AFK" instead.

[saghzs]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It's really not that complicated.....you farm by playing normally and patrolling a small area.

Find a room, not a cubby hole....a hallway or something. 

You guys knew exactly what you were doing... why play dumb?

 

15 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Why are you even playing Warframe if AFK farming was that important?

At that point I have to wonder if people who were doing this even actually enjoy playing the game anymore.

Maybe the tagline for the game should be changed to "Warframe: Ninjas play AFK" instead.

Read the very first line in the original post please.

I am fully aware of that, this isnt about should afk farming be a thing or not, i simply want an explanation as to why the patchnotes were not accurate.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, trst said:

Looks intended considering the way you demonstrated killing them from the location. Even if they continued towards you and tried to get down the hole properly nothing would be able to ever even get in sight of you.

Afk farming is something DE has had zero tolerance towards and is the one of the few things they'll patch instantly. Which could be why they don't want to spell out exactly how they fixed it as only afk farmers would pursue it further and explaining any new rules could help them find holes in it and get right back into it.

Though this is just speculation without DE giving specifics. But it would make sense given their history with the issue.

Still waiting for them to fix Octavia and Isolation Vaults.

I mean... Try it! It really is surprising! Aside of gathering the Vome and Fass residue, you can literally just not shoot/melee anything from bait station, to toxic caves, to Necramechs. It doesn't matter if it's T1 or T3. You can literally get away with not doing anything aside of some foot work, pressing crouch and reactivating abilities. Surely this is not intended? Because if it is... I would consider this a contradiction to their zero tolerance stance on AFK farming. I mean, the game is basically playing itself in Isolation Vaults with Octavia.

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, saghzs said:

 

And maybe also give us an update on your current stance of AFK farming, since it has been and will continue to be a major part of the game.

Their stance has always been that any afk farming that finds its way in game is a mistake and you should expect them to patch it out. 

Steve has been openly and strongly against Homer's Drinking Bird playing the game for you since Viver. Whether you agree with his philosophy doesn't matter as his word is law at DE and always will be. Do they sometimes not patch out afk tricks for years? You betcha, it's whack-a-mole and the game will never stop. and with all the things players come up with, all the unintended combo's, oftentimes people spread the word quietly so DE doesn't nerf it too quickly, so they can seem slow to act, but you should never question that they WILL once they do see. 

Are they 100% against it? Yes. There is no need for an update on their policy. They have always felt this way and their thinking on it has never changed. If anything this latest fixed was pretty transparent to me, transparent and consistent as it is the same type of decision they have been making for years. They find a spot or trick people are regularly using for afk or afk style farming and they will nerf the hell out of it, usually so hard the spot is unuseable for anything period either permanently or for months after. 

The fact of the matter is that they only seem slow to act because many of the afk farmers are jealous of their secrets and spread the word quietly, so DE doesn't realize for a while what they are doing. They keep it secret because they know it will inevitably be nerfed. 

And DE is not "more transparent" in their patch notes in terms of all the things they did behind the scenes to fix the exploit, because then some clever afk farmers might find the path of least resistance, like water, and find a way around their "fix". Better to be vague. It's the same reason DE is not telling people the exact algorithm behind the temporary trade ban trigger/filter, they know those truly exploiting would then be able to know what tricks might get around their system. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

12 minutes ago, saghzs said:

 

Read the very first line in the original post please.

I am fully aware of that, this isnt about should afk farming be a thing or not, i simply want an explanation as to why the patchnotes were not accurate.

"Digital Extremes reserves the right, in its sole and absolute discretion, to revise, update, change, modify, add to, supplement, or delete certain terms of this Agreement as the Properties evolve; provided, however, that material changes to this Agreement will not be applied retroactively. Such changes will be effective with or without prior notice to you."

[_Anise_]

52 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if that was the primary strategy implemented

ok I edited, my point was I think messing around with the AI to the point that its glitch spawning and just being straight up turning off should be the LAST resort!

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

ok I edited, my point was I think messing around with the AI to the point that its glitch spawning and just being straight up turning off should be the LAST resort!

Well, we don't know what they tested to "fix" the spot, before they actually hotfixed it. 

Maybe they tried other things and couldn't come up with a better way? Unfortunately, considering they don't want people to figure out a way to turn it back into an afk farming spot, I don't expect them to be big on details. 

[taiiat]

31 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

considering they don't want people to figure out a way to turn it back into an afk farming spot, I don't expect them to be big on details. 

even though the rule Security by obscurity isn't Security is a rule for a reason.
alas.

[Tesseract7777]

17 minutes ago, taiiat said:

even though the rule Security by obscurity isn't Security is a rule for a reason.
alas.

True enough. Just didnt personally expect anything else at this point from them.  The whole way they handled it has been classic DE.

 

[Roble_Viejo]

I understand that they had to do something about the scumbag AFK Macros cheesers

But instead of CLOSING THE GATE/ROOM
They choose to make the AI EVEN MORE BROKEN
Effectively solving NOTHING and hurting ALL endurance runs

DE never seizes to amazes me with their inconvenient, counter intuitive and overall ineffective "solutions"
to problems that could be solved in much easier ways using a little bit of common sense. 

Also, the real problem is the AI is USELESS. Is the worst AI in any game I played PERIOD
Seven years of development and they KEEP IGNORING IT

Bandaid after bandaid and the improvement of the core game keeps being neglected and they thought breaking the AI further and scrambling the enemies path was a good idea

[trst]

1 hour ago, nslay said:

Still waiting for them to fix Octavia and Isolation Vaults.

I mean... Try it! It really is surprising! Aside of gathering the Vome and Fass residue, you can literally just not shoot/melee anything from bait station, to toxic caves, to Necramechs. It doesn't matter if it's T1 or T3. You can literally get away with not doing anything aside of some foot work, pressing crouch and reactivating abilities. Surely this is not intended? Because if it is... I would consider this a contradiction to their zero tolerance stance on AFK farming. I mean, the game is basically playing itself in Isolation Vaults with Octavia.

I mean I'm just as surprised that mechs haven't been made immune to Mallet. And that she's still the queen of semi-afk farming, I'd guess she hasn't been changed yet because she's generally deemed too boring to play. But Saryn and Mesa still exist as they are so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But the vaults aren't an afk farming situation as there is too much moving from objective to objective for it to be afk beyond waiting out the bait phase and for mechs to kill themselves which they do pretty much instantly anyways. Low effort yes but far from afk.

[vegetosayajin]

this fix was done for the very small minority using macros to literally afk (not even stay on the computer), not for those who farmed there
but it's easier to "fix" the whole thing then search and ban those people

[saghzs]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

"Digital Extremes reserves the right, in its sole and absolute discretion, to revise, update, change, modify, add to, supplement, or delete certain terms of this Agreement as the Properties evolve; provided, however, that material changes to this Agreement will not be applied retroactively. Such changes will be effective with or without prior notice to you."

Not sure what that has to do with my point, but sure.. whatever.

Also thats really hard to read in dark mode btw.

[ShortCat]

I certainly felt AI changes in normal Survival missions while opening some relics - enemies would flock to one place and when I kill them, there would bo no enemy in 100m vacinity and you have to go out and search for them on the entire map.

The real problem is Khora.

[saghzs]

56 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

The real problem is Khora.

Heavily disagree, khora isnt the only frame that can kill fast, through walls.

I think the real problem is in the spawn algorythm.

Moving around only increases the distance between you and enemy spawn locations, meaning it takes them more time to get to you. So it's only logical to stay in 1 spot if you want the highest droprates.

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, saghzs said:

And maybe also give us an update on your current stance of AFK farming, since it has been and will continue to be a major part of the game.

Their stance on it is pretty obvious wouldnt you think? AFK farming isnt ment to be a thing. It is also not a major part of the game. I think you confuse camping and afk farming, which are two widely different things, one being legit, the other not. For instance, a Khora whipclaw murdering a map isnt afk farming since you constantly actively kill. AFK farming is what happens when people let their companions murder things in order to get resources etc.

The Ophelia changes did nothing to actual farming. I dont see why anyone would even bother with that exploit since Ophelia is packed with mindblowing camp spots already with several entrences for steady large streams of mobs with no stop.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Oh that's the spot? Makes sense that they had to do something about it

7 hours ago, saghzs said:

This is not at all what actually got put in the game with the hotfix.

Yeah it is what we got, no more afk farming in that place doesn't matter how they fixed it

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

On 2020-10-07 at 6:12 AM, Roble_Viejo said:

-snip-

You should find a career in game development since you’re such an expert.

You realize none of this matters if you just don’t jump in the hole, right? 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, saghzs said:

Not sure what that has to do with my point, but sure.. whatever.

Also thats really hard to read in dark mode btw.

You asked why the changes weren't in the patch notes. I provided legal documentation that basically says "it's their game, and they'll change whatever they want, with or without notifying you."

They're not obligated to bend over backwards and tell you exactly why and how they rectified your cheating.