Helminth once again frustrates veterans.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

36 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Those stats are anything but precise in the Favorite department. It's been ages since I actively used Phage, and even the hours don't add up nicely. 

  Hide contents

 

I'm more concerned that you're denying the phage and not the Inaros 😛

[Slayer-.]

 

40 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Those stats are anything but precise in the Favorite department. It's been ages since I actively used Phage, and even the hours don't add up nicely. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The stats are usage, your Phage 9.1% your Primary Catchmoon 8.2% and Opticor V 8.1% are getting closer to overtake. 👍

[Reifnir]

15 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm more concerned that you're denying the phage and not the Inaros

That one is actually pretty plausible, I did spend an awful lot of time on Inaros doing Survival runs, sometimes for hours on end ^^ Phage, though, is something I actively used when long Akkad runs were still a thing, but not afterwards, as I switched to Sancti Tigris before Tigris Prime was even a thing. 

[Graavarg]

On 2021-07-10 at 7:45 AM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Everyone talking about "being cheated" or "DE should reward back xp" are full of crap.

...

There's no argument to justify wanting another reward after getting a reward.

Everyone wanting their back xp might be full of crap, or not. That's not really the "unfairness" point though. Which is the situation where a player that subsumed a warframe prior the the Helminth update will be unable to profit from standing/XP from subsuming that warframe ever, while another player subsuming the same warframe now will profit from that standing. I couldn't care less about any backlog XP, but I think it is completely unfair that other players can subsume warframes and get standing from that process, and use that standing to improve their game. While DE stops me from doing exactly that. Why should some get standing from subsuming Ember (or any other warframe) but others won't? The logic that "you already did it and it doesn't count for you" is... well... like... right out stupid. But stupid is fine, what pisses me off is that is unfair.

As to the second statement, maybe we can agree that such a logic ("not getting another reward after getting a reward") should apply equally to ALL players? Just to be fair to everyone, right? Can you see where this argument is headed?

Finally, I have no problem with anyone being cool with how DE implemented this. Why should I? Good for you, whoever you are. Unless it is some egocentric garbage along the lines "since I'm cool with it everyone else should be as well". I am actually quite cool with it myself, I just hate arbitrary unfairness. Like racism, or overblown nationalism, or that swill the Canadian bonkers-professor (can't even remember his name) spews, wanting "us men" to understand have unfairly we have been treated 😀. So this is no big deal, the basic unfairness of treating players differently just tarnishes DE's shield a bit. And it will stay tarnished until fixed.

[EmberStar]

5 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Everyone wanting their back xp might be full of crap, or not. That's not really the "unfairness" point though. Which is the situation where a player that subsumed a warframe prior the the Helminth update will be unable to profit from standing/XP from subsuming that warframe ever, while another player subsuming the same warframe now will profit from that standing. I couldn't care less about any backlog XP, but I think it is completely unfair that other players can subsume warframes and get standing from that process, and use that standing to improve their game.

As others have pointed out, those of us that subsumed all the 'frames more or less right away DID get a benefit though.  We've had access to the entire range of Helminth powers, which opened up options that ranged from "just for fun" to "almost brokenly overpowered."  I'm not going to try to list specific examples, since I suck at min-maxing and I don't usually use (or even watch) Youtuber builds.  But there are a couple of youtube/twitch content creators who have whole libraries of "This Helminth combo is crazy!" build guides.

[Zi-Sui]

21 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Everyone wanting their back xp might be full of crap, or not. That's not really the "unfairness" point though. Which is the situation where a player that subsumed a warframe prior the the Helminth update will be unable to profit from standing/XP from subsuming that warframe ever, while another player subsuming the same warframe now will profit from that standing. I couldn't care less about any backlog XP, but I think it is completely unfair that other players can subsume warframes and get standing from that process, and use that standing to improve their game. While DE stops me from doing exactly that. Why should some get standing from subsuming Ember (or any other warframe) but others won't? The logic that "you already did it and it doesn't count for you" is... well... like... right out stupid. But stupid is fine, what pisses me off is that is unfair.

As to the second statement, maybe we can agree that such a logic ("not getting another reward after getting a reward") should apply equally to ALL players? Just to be fair to everyone, right? Can you see where this argument is headed?

Finally, I have no problem with anyone being cool with how DE implemented this. Why should I? Good for you, whoever you are. Unless it is some egocentric garbage along the lines "since I'm cool with it everyone else should be as well". I am actually quite cool with it myself, I just hate arbitrary unfairness. Like racism, or overblown nationalism, or that swill the Canadian bonkers-professor (can't even remember his name) spews, wanting "us men" to understand have unfairly we have been treated 😀. So this is no big deal, the basic unfairness of treating players differently just tarnishes DE's shield a bit. And it will stay tarnished until fixed.

So you're pissed about not getting the exp from subsumes when someone else will, okay. You got the right for that, don't need a permission to get all pissed.

But, why did you subsume them in the first place? No reason? If no reason, then why do it if there's no reason? It just doesn't add up to me. If you go and subsume the frames, surely you must get something out of it. And you got that earlier than a lot of players, just like me, so you got that dopamine rush just a bit earlier. I'm just wondering, why... why would you subsume them all in the first place so early then?

[Zi-Sui]

On 2021-07-09 at 12:22 PM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I really couldn't care. I'll get access to those new abilities eventually. The ones that are complaining are no doubt the same idiots that do all the new stuff in one day and then complain they have nothing left to do.

They need to learn some patience and pace themselves. This is a marathon, not a sprint. 

This. Although I do understand and slightly empathize on people who rush things and then take long breaks because "content drought" (I've done that too lol), and although I can see the enjoyment of getting things faster, I also think that it's a "you-problem" for a lot of people. The problem of lack of patience. One of DE's moneymakers here is the foundry build times: the impatient will use platinum to rush things, even I've done it a time or two. It can be much of a sprint if you want it to be, is my point, but my point also is, it can already be so much of a sprint that IMO it's just beyond reason and good sense to demand things like these to be even faster. Of course people are entitled to voice their will, but you can't expect people to agree and then talk like they're stupid just because they have a different stance. It's not stupid to think different.

But, people consider different things stupid. I consider most ignis wraith users stupid. Yet that is my subjective taste of people, not an objective fact. So I understand if some people find helminth's implementations distasteful. But thing is, you can't argue tastes. You can't argue that eating salty food tastes better for everyone than sour or sugary food, people simply are different. Some of us enjoy the slow ride, some of us want it fast, who is right? The one who shouts the loudest or tries to be an intellectual? In matters of taste?

Now... if DE gave an option to rush helminth exp for platinum, I would not be against it (even if that double negative does describe my distaste for rushing). So many things can already be rushed or somehow bought with platinum so why not this... I think it'd be great for rushers too, because it is known that shopping and buying things (instead of just getting them for free) creates more of a dopamine rush. And I'd be happy knowing that there's still benefit in my slow rider way, the benefit of saving platinum. Everybody wins. Just please, please don't expect to have everything unless you can provide that to others too. And quite frankly, I don't know if I'd even want that "missing" helminth exp to be handed on a silver platter to me, probably not after reading all this topic.

/walloftext

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2021-07-07 at 7:14 PM, PhreazerBurn said:

The first round of pain for veterans was needing to rebuild all the warframes we sold through the years for a few measly credits.

I actually welcomed this!  As a vet, I often have a very short to-do list in Warframe.  This gave me a reason to go do some nostalgic old-school farms.

[Graavarg]

19 hours ago, Zi-of-Jinx said:

But, why did you subsume them in the first place? No reason? If no reason, then why do it if there's no reason?

What do mean, one reason to subsume them is okay, another reason isn't?

Every player have their own reasons for doing stuff, but that reason does not in any way apply to DE treating players differently. That is something else entirely. I am pissed simply because DE is stopping me from gathering and using standing that DE at the same time allows other players to gather and use. If you think that isn't unfair, fine. But if you think that my or anyone else's reasons for doing stuff in the game applies, you're not only way out of bounds but way, way out in some own nevereverland, where a thought police would be the next best thing...

I don't even dispute DE's right to do this. But it not only feels unfair, it objectively fits a definition of unfair. Which is treating others differently based on your own arbitrary reasoning.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

I hit max rank and that really wasn't anything sure it took me a week to do it but then again im busy with this chunky update.

But since im a "vet" i have bucket loads of resources to dump into helminth and didn't have a chance to get the exp for yareli subsume since my helminth copy is still crafting. The grind for 5 levels  really wasn't frustrating to me it was something to do

[Graavarg]

19 hours ago, EmberStar said:

As others have pointed out, those of us that subsumed all the 'frames more or less right away DID get a benefit though.  We've had access to the entire range of Helminth powers, which opened up options that ranged from "just for fun" to "almost brokenly overpowered." 

Nah, that is just an illogical construction, after the fact. For that to be valid (logically), two things would have to be proven first: (1) that I actually used this benefit (if I didn't use all the options there was no benefit, and arguing for the "possiblity of a benefit" is getting pretty laughable), and (2) that those abilities I subsumed and how I used actually resulted in a benefit (as compared to using a standard warframe)

But mainly it falls on it's own twisted logic, if another player subsuming a warframe now will both get the benefit AND use the standing to rank up (because they couldn't get the benefit before), just allow me to get the standing now (that I couldn't get before).

As I've said, I don't think getting the standing retrospectively is the way to go (though that would be "fair" as well), but hindering me from getting the standing at all is unfair. It just is.

If you don't get it, just apply the same logic to voting in advance (you get the benefit of not having to queue on voting day, but hey, someone just decided your advance vote won't count and that no, you don't get to vote on voting day either because you already "voted"). It's not rocket science. I don't even dispute that DE has the right to do this, they have. And it isn't a world-altering thing either. But it is still unfair, whichever way to turn it.

[(PSN)Adometro]

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but the new helminth segment with the weekly buffs gives a ton of XP.  You will reach rank 15 with very little effort.

[Aesthier]

The only thing I find annoying is the fact the subsumed abilities menu doesn't show the name of the warframe needed to subsume the ability.

Yes I know I could look it up but it would be nice to have that info right on my screen instead.

 

Other than that...

meh.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2021-07-08 at 4:40 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

Name one MMO or videogame at all, where when they add a new level cap, they calculate all the overlap, wasted xp you had from years before, and just gift it to you

I'm sorry, but that is just such a blatantly silly comparison, that I have to think you are creating a strawman on purpose.

The reason people want their subsumed Warframes to grant XP retroactively, is that they have subsumed them already and can't do it again. So, to go with your "level cap" example, it is like raising the level cap without adding any new quests, should have kept some old quests instead of completing them all I guess? That is just dumb, and white knighting dumb desicions doesn't impress anyone, hence the opposition you experience.

If it's you against the world, maybe stop for a second and consider that you might be wrong.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

17 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

If it's you against the world, maybe stop for a second and consider that you might be wrong.

I think you're really exaggerating how many people are in opposition. While I haven't counted each individual user and added them to a group based on their opinion, it's pretty fair to say that quite a substantial amount of the people who commented here aren't bothered by DE's decision, and a few even enjoy having something to do. you can't argue that the overwhelming majority is against someone when the overwhelming majority isn't against them.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I think you're really exaggerating how many people are in opposition. While I haven't counted each individual user and added them to a group based on their opinion, it's pretty fair to say that quite a substantial amount of the people who commented here aren't bothered by DE's decision, and a few even enjoy having something to do. you can't argue that the overwhelming majority is against someone when the overwhelming majority isn't against them.

I'd guess the overwhelming majority of players who have 30+ Warframes subsumed (and thus would be affected, instead of being vultures enjoying the misfortune of others), agree that not giving the XP retroactively is a bad move. It is generally not worth making a fuss about though, since the new Helminth stuff sucks anyway.

[EmberStar]

5 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Nah, that is just an illogical construction, after the fact. For that to be valid (logically), two things would have to be proven first: (1) that I actually used this benefit (if I didn't use all the options there was no benefit, and arguing for the "possiblity of a benefit" is getting pretty laughable), and (2) that those abilities I subsumed and how I used actually resulted in a benefit (as compared to using a standard warframe)

No, you're just moving the goalposts.  Players who subsumed all the Warframes had access to a huge selection of powers.  Are some of those powers complete crap?  Yes.  Decoy is useless on Loki, NO other 'frame has any reason to use it when Metronome is also part of the system.  Ditto for Mind Control.  (Sadly, since Nyx is one of my favorite frames for visual design.)  If you didn't choose to USE that potential, that's not a fault of the mechanic.  (And if you weren't planning to use so many of the subsumed powers, why subsume them at all?  Were you really *that* desperate to free up Warframe slots?)  By your "logic," Netflix owes me a few hundred dollars - I've been subscribed continuously for years, but sometimes I go for months without taking the time to watch anything during a given month.  I didn't use the benefits I paid for, I demand compensation!  Except that's not how it works.  I paid for the *potential* to log on and watch whatever is in their library at any time.  NOT using that benefit is, in fact, entirely my fault.

If you really didn't care about the powers and never made use of them, then you made the choice to get rid of a ton of Warframes for no real benefit.  You could have just kept them (Warframe slots aren't that expensive and new ones don't come out THAT fast.)  I didn't actually use most of the powers either, *and* I chose to go through and build an entirely new unleveled Warframe to feed to the Helminth, because I'm pointlessly attached to the ones I had and won't get rid of them.  I *could* have just subsumed all my standard Warframes, and only had to replace a handful that don't have Primes.  Many people did exactly that.  I don't feel that I'm somehow entitled to extra benefits, even though I'm pretty sure I did *more* work to get those extra copies than most people who were upset at having to re-grind for the handful they replaced with Primes.

[Tesseract7777]

38 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I'm sorry, but that is just such a blatantly silly comparison, that I have to think you are creating a strawman on purpose.

The reason people want their subsumed Warframes to grant XP retroactively, is that they have subsumed them already and can't do it again. So, to go with your "level cap" example, it is like raising the level cap without adding any new quests, should have kept some old quests instead of completing them all I guess? That is just dumb, and white knighting dumb desicions doesn't impress anyone, hence the opposition you experience.

If it's you against the world, maybe stop for a second and consider that you might be wrong.

 

9 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

No, you're just moving the goalposts.  Players who subsumed all the Warframes had access to a huge selection of powers.  Are some of those powers complete crap?  Yes.  Decoy is useless on Loki, NO other 'frame has any reason to use it when Metronome is also part of the system.  Ditto for Mind Control.  (Sadly, since Nyx is one of my favorite frames for visual design.)  If you didn't choose to USE that potential, that's not a fault of the mechanic.  (And if you weren't planning to use so many of the subsumed powers, why subsume them at all?  Were you really *that* desperate to free up Warframe slots?)  By your "logic," Netflix owes me a few hundred dollars - I've been subscribed continuously for years, but sometimes I go for months without taking the time to watch anything during a given month.  I didn't use the benefits I paid for, I demand compensation!  Except that's not how it works.  I paid for the *potential* to log on and watch whatever is in their library at any time.  NOT using that benefit is, in fact, entirely my fault.

If you really didn't care about the powers and never made use of them, then you made the choice to get rid of a ton of Warframes for no real benefit.  You could have just kept them (Warframe slots aren't that expensive and new ones don't come out THAT fast.)  I didn't actually use most of the powers either, *and* I chose to go through and build an entirely new unleveled Warframe to feed to the Helminth, because I'm pointlessly attached to the ones I had and won't get rid of them.  I *could* have just subsumed all my standard Warframes, and only had to replace a handful that don't have Primes.  Many people did exactly that.  I don't feel that I'm somehow entitled to extra benefits, even though I'm pretty sure I did *more* work to get those extra copies than most people who were upset at having to re-grind for the handful they replaced with Primes.

EmberStar explains how I feel about this far better than I can, or any of my clumsy analogies can, which is why I quoted their post. 

Anyways, everyone is entitled to their opinion on it, but it looks like DE doesn't intend to do anything here. They've done what they've done. 

We can all argue about fairness or not fairness until we are blue in the face and pass out from lack of oxygen, but DE wants us to have stuff to do. And that's the main reason they aren't just giving it to people with "overlap xp". 

Also, @Traumtulpeit's funny to me you say it is me against the world.

Go check the amount of likes on my posts regarding this again. Go check the others in these threads agreeing with me, with their words.

I have no way of knowing whether my opinion is the minority or majority and don't frankly care, but to say it is "me against the world" is just silly my fellow Tenno. 

[EmberStar]

43 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

The only thing I find annoying is the fact the subsumed abilities menu doesn't show the name of the warframe needed to subsume the ability.

Yes I know I could look it up but it would be nice to have that info right on my screen instead.

 

Other than that...

meh.

It's not ideal, and a few might still be missing.  But I *think* if you mouseover the power it plays the little video that demonstrates it, which should feature the original Warframe casting it.  It would be *better* if it just labeled it or had a popup saying "Subsume Oberon to unlock this ability!"  Especially since not everyone can recognize every Warframe by sight, even in their default looks and colors.  But at least there's kind of a hint?

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I'd guess the overwhelming majority of players who have 30+ Warframes subsumed (and thus would be affected, instead of being vultures enjoying the misfortune of others), agree that not giving the XP retroactively is a bad move.

But that's just an assumption based on your own opinion. There are some people that agree with you, but based on what's been posted here, the general attitude is "who cares". I'm a player who subsumed 44 frames before this update (couldn't be bothered with Hydroid and Saryn), and my opinion was "meh, I'll get it when I get it". I am affected by this, as many of those frames were subsumed with 0 xp gains, but I don't really care because I don't feel like DE owes me anything, and I know I can just level up Helminth passively while I get the other shiny new things from this same update.

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

"meh, I'll get it when I get it"

Like I said, the new abilities suck anyways, so I don't care much either. I just disagree with it in principle.

13 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Go check the amount of likes on my posts regarding this again. Go check the others in these threads agreeing with me, with their words.

You disagreeing with OP got you less than half his likes. Discounting the vultures, there might be about 5 or so left.

[(PSN)Wolf_Folivora]

Nah. Im loving the new helminth additions. All the other long-time players i play with are also happy. There are always more frames we can feed. I dont believe there are that many players who feed their hemitnth all the frames.
Thank you DE 💖

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Wolf_von_Saturn said:

Nah. Im loving the new helminth additions. All the other long-time players i play with are also happy. There are always more frames we can feed. I dont believe there are that many players who feed their hemitnth all the frames.
Thank you DE 💖

I can’t feed any more frames other than Yarelli. I also have no desire to simply spam infuse and remove abilities. This means my only source of XP now is invigorations or the odd infuse I haven’t done yet.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

12 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You disagreeing with OP got you less than half his likes. Discounting the vultures, there might be about 5 or so left.

You can't just say whose opinion is valid and whose isn't. You ascribing your self-made malicious intent to these people doesn't mean their opinion is generally invalid, because your opinion =/= popular opinion.

[EmberStar]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I can’t feed any more frames other than Yarelli. I also have no desire to simply spam infuse and remove abilities. This means my only source of XP now is invigorations or the odd infuse I haven’t done yet.

That's unfortunate.  The only thing I can offer is that most of the new powers seem... really niche (if I'm being kind.)  I don't know how the Helminth Affinity needed scales at higher levels, but just the first set of Invigorations and then feeding Helminth afterwords was enough to get the first level.

If you haven't tried it yet, maybe consider testing Gloom on a few different frames?  It's not an "overpowered meta-killer" build, but Banshee with Gloom, Sonar and Silence is actually interesting.  Really high power strength Gloom slows down enemies, and has close to the same range as Silence.  And the slow affects the animation caused by Silence.  The result is that you get into range of a bunch of enemies, and they flail around clutching their heads in extreme slow motion for a few seconds.  Throw out a Sonar pulse (add Resonance if your build can hold it for extra laughs) and pop Steel Path Kuva Grineer by shooting them in the ankle with the Seer.

Gloom is also decent on Yareli, just because it's a decent power in general.  I replaced Merulina in Loadout B, just because trying to use Merulina on most indoor maps makes me feel sick.  It doesn't make her *great* and it's totally giving up her signature power.  (Which I normally try not to do.)  But it's a power I almost literally can't use on most maps without getting sick, and the slow and life steal from Gloom adds some survival capability.

Sorry.  What I'm clumsily trying to get at is that I'm just curious that there's no other combinations of frames and powers you can infuse?  Speaking only for myself, there's no rush to max out Helminth again, and there's at least an option for getting there eventually.  I've gone for years without collecting all the Kuria Kitties for the statue, I can survive waiting another month to get Golden Instinct for my "Treasure Hunter Khora" loadout.