Why I'm not playing WF (at least currently)

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

It seems like what you want out of Warframe (difficulty that rewards mechanical skill) just isn't part of Warframe's identity (difficulty that rewards well-constructed loadouts).

A fair point, but I'd already be satisfied if the bugs were fixed. Sure, I'd still not really have much to do in the game, but playing itself would be a lot more fun. Another simple thing to make me enjoy the game more would be procedually generated spy vaults, or community created ones, or just updated ones every couple of months. Or if gas damage was useful again, so I don't just default to hunter munitions on everything, etc.

2 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

i stopped playing warframe because of the sorties

To be honest, I stopped playing sorties very long ago... they do feel like a waste of time unless its a real quick one.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Did you not notice that I get teleported to the left, above thin air, as soon as the attack initiates? All "dash-attacks" (even those that do not on their own move the warframe at all) have the same issue. In missions I'll often dash into a wall, or miss a staircase or enemy I was aiming at because of it.

People call me a white knight but I definitely agree with you. Multiple stances are just messed up. I'm at like 2 years of gameplay and there's stances and whole weapon categories I won't use cause of this. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

I already saw some comments of ''if the developers don't do what i want then i'm leaving'' 

I always found it counterproductive that DE was too open to making changes for crybabies complaining about anything and now that is taking its toll on them. Anyway, goodbye in advance.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I already saw some comments of ''if the developers don't do what i want then i'm leaving'' 

I always found it counterproductive that DE was too open to making changes for crybabies complaining about anything and now that is taking its toll on them. Anyway, goodbye in advance.

What if the change people want is ... just polish?  And stability?

 

With crossplay coming, it's going to be all but impossible to quickly ship out hotfixes.  I'm worried about the state of QA in this game as it is.

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, CosoMalvadoNG said:

[...]

Not reading anything beyond the first 5 words, and posting not one, but 2 irrelevant gifs. Color me impressed. Anymore gifs, or are you already out, I wonder?

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I like Warframe, and I'd like to play it, yet I have no motivation to do so. And I feel a lot of older players have the same issue.

So what is stopping me? Let me explain:

• The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.
• Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.
• Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.
• The games main selling point (using a warframe is fun, it feels good) gets it's legs cut off by undercooked and/or bugged game mechanics all the time. I will list a number of examples:

Stuff like railjack, the operator, necramechs, in other words "not using a warframe" simply feels worse than using a warframe. Of course the warframes inherent mobility and animations play a role here, but also balancing, undercooked mechanics, clunky transitions (for example due to latency), severely underdeveloped characteristics (fokus).

A lot of things in this game disable the "sprinting" toggle, making the player move unpleasantly slow until toggled on again. This includes mobility abilities like vial rush, entirely defeating their point and/or pointlessly forcing a play to retoggle sprinting over and over and over. It's unpleasant, it's a chore, and it's embarassing for you, I'd think.

Melee combos have been severely downgraded in many cases. There are many weapon classes I have categorically no interest in whatsoever, because they have NO stance offering the following qualities: Being able to attack while moving uninterrupted OR having an effective dash attack, having 4 different combos with different usecases, having decent damage multipliers compared to other stances, having forced slash procs. Some stances have NONE of these qualities, few have all of them (barely, with good will).

1001 bugs (actually, add a couple 0's there) that make abilities and/or equipment feel terrible to use like: Condition overload and other mods having no effect when they should have, glaives randomly losing combo multiplier despite retaining the combo counter, vex armor having no effect vs special enemies, tornado being killable, shield gating not working properly under certain circumstances, and one of my personal least favourites, gun/melee switching displacing the warframe and players aim under ceartain circumstances.

Regarding those bugs, there are many more, of course, but all of those mentioned have been reported by me personally, some of them YEARS ago (and multiple times), but they just never get fixed. Like this one:

In fact I'd really like your feedback on this bug in particular, it really makes me not want to use melee outside of melee only mode (or not at all currently, thanks to explosive weapons). Do other people just not notice these bugs, or why can they persist for years unadressed?

Anyhow, I'll of course be checking out the new war, eventually, but other than that I'm not seeing myself play warframe in the forseeable future. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

You're right.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

[...]

I suppose you must be running out after all. Though the idea of supplementing your lack of eloquence with funny pictures is a good one, I can respect that.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

  I understand you OP and sympathize 100%. You want WF to be something it will never be.  That’s what WF is and will always be tho. Warframe is an ancient gaming engine so bugs that can’t be fixed ever doesn’t surprise me.  

  And because of this DE is severely limited as to what they can do mechanically. Knowing this I treat WF like it wants to be treated. A old brain dead no skill one button mobile game that’s fun sometimes with lore I find interesting, you play between AAA titles.

 Halo infinite comes out in 2 days!! Then Old War on the 15th then back to Infinite till Elden Ring then just get lost in Elden ring. 

[Felsagger]

57 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

How do we identify the cutoff point between “Not quite working well for the game” versus “Person got addicted to optimising their own fun out of the game for the sake of the grind”?

Like, I get that if the game knocked everyone who plays the demigod game down a notch or two (even though the demigod was designed by the player to be a demigod, and the game let it happen and the player loved that the game let it happen), I’d be pretty curious to see what happens and I’m sure it’d make someone happy, but also I think that’s only half the equation; the desire to be too optimal is a thing that originates from the player, and while Warframe lowers the bar to the point where a player can be invincible for the missions they still need to do after tens of hours of gameplay, it’s not exactly alone in giving options that then get used exclusively

Given. 

People need a break from the game, they played for too much. 

People need other games to play or other hobbies in their free time.

People are no longer interested on what the game offers. Yes, the game can't offer everything. 

A swiss army knife can't do everything. Yes, many players demands too much out of this project. On that I do agree. We brought this on ourselves. 

[nslay]

14 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

People need other games to play or other hobbies in their free time.

Gotta rake those darn leaves. They're everywhere this time of year!

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

Gotta rake those darn leaves. They're everywhere this time of year!

It's winter. Tough job. 

Not everybody blames it on the game. Maybe people will get wiser if they simply realize that they outgrew the game. They rather stay or simply enjoy other games. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 34 minutos, Traumtulpe dijo:

I suppose you must be running out after all. Though the idea of supplementing your lack of eloquence with funny pictures is a good one, I can respect that.

I'm trying to stop laughing out loud, seriusly.

1. First of all young man i was not talking to you.
2. Every time people make a post like this one and DE approve and make the changes, then another post appears complaining about these changes and giving controversial reasons leading crying people to say that they will leave the game if they do not put this or that and the circle never ends. Yes, in this post there are people crying that they will leave the game if they don't give them their favorite sweets. 
3. I can agree with some points but I can also see that if things are changed abruptly, discontent people will always open up, and we will see more controversy and therefore more toxicity.

These things are not new. This game, according to some ppl, is dying from the CBT and it's been 8 years now. It's funny for me at least.

Anyway, if you don't like something you can always leave it, that's the only thing left for some ppl.

 

 

[MqToasty]

4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I like Warframe, and I'd like to play it, yet I have no motivation to do so. And I feel a lot of older players have the same issue.

So what is stopping me? Let me explain:

• The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.
• Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.
• Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.
• The games main selling point (using a warframe is fun, it feels good) gets it's legs cut off by undercooked and/or bugged game mechanics all the time. I will list a number of examples:

Stuff like railjack, the operator, necramechs, in other words "not using a warframe" simply feels worse than using a warframe. Of course the warframes inherent mobility and animations play a role here, but also balancing, undercooked mechanics, clunky transitions (for example due to latency), severely underdeveloped characteristics (fokus).

A lot of things in this game disable the "sprinting" toggle, making the player move unpleasantly slow until toggled on again. This includes mobility abilities like vial rush, entirely defeating their point and/or pointlessly forcing a play to retoggle sprinting over and over and over. It's unpleasant, it's a chore, and it's embarassing for you, I'd think.

Melee combos have been severely downgraded in many cases. There are many weapon classes I have categorically no interest in whatsoever, because they have NO stance offering the following qualities: Being able to attack while moving uninterrupted OR having an effective dash attack, having 4 different combos with different usecases, having decent damage multipliers compared to other stances, having forced slash procs. Some stances have NONE of these qualities, few have all of them (barely, with good will).

1001 bugs (actually, add a couple 0's there) that make abilities and/or equipment feel terrible to use like: Condition overload and other mods having no effect when they should have, glaives randomly losing combo multiplier despite retaining the combo counter, vex armor having no effect vs special enemies, tornado being killable, shield gating not working properly under certain circumstances, and one of my personal least favourites, gun/melee switching displacing the warframe and players aim under ceartain circumstances.

Regarding those bugs, there are many more, of course, but all of those mentioned have been reported by me personally, some of them YEARS ago (and multiple times), but they just never get fixed. Like this one:

In fact I'd really like your feedback on this bug in particular, it really makes me not want to use melee outside of melee only mode (or not at all currently, thanks to explosive weapons). Do other people just not notice these bugs, or why can they persist for years unadressed?

Anyhow, I'll of course be checking out the new war, eventually, but other than that I'm not seeing myself play warframe in the forseeable future. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

No game can possibly appeal to all gamers, and it looks like Warframe simply does not tickle your fancy.  If you look at the 6 clusters Quantic Labs came up with (linked below), it's clear that Warframe is very focused on satisfying needs for Achievement, has something for players who seek Action, Immersion and Creativity, and really not focused on Mastery and Social needs.

https://quanticfoundry.com/

Your criticism seems focused on the game not satisfying your need for Mastery (Challenge and Strategy), which is perfectly valid.  However, that never was Warframe's primary appeal so I really don't see the devs overhauling the game to satisfy your needs at the expense of the rest of the playerbase.

[(NSW)Greybones]

20 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Given. 

People need a break from the game, they played for too much. 

People need other games to play or other hobbies in their free time.

People are no longer interested on what the game offers. Yes, the game can't offer everything. 

A swiss army knife can't do everything. Yes, many players demands too much out of this project. On that I do agree. We brought this on ourselves. 

Considering the first thing that’s told to everyone is not “Here’s what it takes just to get through a fight”, but instead “Here’s how to make the fight as easy as possible for the sake of the grind”, I’m not surprised that people think the only game worth playing is Grindframe. It’s literally what people keep saying Warframe is.

It’s not exactly hard to see that there’s a grind behind the game, and that intrinsically we strive to make it as easy as possible; other games may make the option to optimise the fun out of the game so tricky to do or require so much effort to do that most people just can’t be bothered, but Warframe presents the capacity to do so right from the very start; it doesn’t take two braincells to rank up a Serration and slap it into every weapon to strip the fight out of a mission and get to the reward at the end easier, and this is an option available at the very start.

So obviously the entirety of Warframe’s progression system would need to be addressed, from the very bottom to the very top; no more easy 5 minute fissure runs, now they’re going to be 10 - 15 minutes, with a potential for longer before a single completion because failure is part of what makes challenge a challenge. And no more “Taking favourite equipment wherever”, it’s going to have to require the right equipment for the mission, instead of “The right tool for the right job… for the sake of the easy grind”.

This doesn’t strike me as terribly feasible. An alternative is to make the grind so much less appealing that it’s not considered worth it, but good luck with that, haha. I’d love to see more limits on how much we can grind, but what’ll happen? “Gee DE, can you make it easier to grind?”. “Clearly you’re pushing us to purchase with low drop rates, I hate the grind but I’m gonna keep playing it because there’s nothing else to do in this game when I build for invincibility, and the smart thing to do is not pay for anything when I can get it for free”.

So no-one wants the grind to be slowed down, and yet some want the grind to be slowed down because they can’t stop grinding, and yet what will happen if the grind gets slowed down is that the only smart thing to do is to make the grind as fast as possible and ask DE to make it easier.

And then we’re sold on the idea that The Game is the Grind and that the only smart thing to do is to take this build or this build and turn the game off for the sake of the grind.

I lost track of what I was on about when I first started this rant, but suffice it to say that Warframe is a case-study of what would happen if everyone had the option to not play the game because the game is only in the way. It’s fascinating, but damn if it isn’t also… 😐

[KitMeHarder]

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam.

Why would you restrict yourself to those missions then? You sound like a player that needs a reason to play, not rewards. So go and experience the diversity and length that the open world and railjack missions bring. IMO bounties are the most fun mission type in WF.

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Lack of challenge.

Good luck. You'll never find this in a RPG, at least in an exponentially scaling one.

And I think it's a bit much to ask for a game you've been playing for over 4 years, to be as challenging and interesting as you're probably asking for. Especially since you turn your nose up at those new combat systems that "aren't warframes", and then complain that just using warframes is getting boring.

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?"

Then maybe don't be a meta slave for 2 seconds. I love my AOE spam just like everyone else, but I still have fun with stuff like the Trumna, Catabolyst, Phantasma, etc... when I want a change of pace.

And "does this proc slash"? You do know that encompasses almost every melee, every gun that force procs impact, and every primary you build for crit. As well as many more. Not to mention that if you'd just branch out with what you play, you'd see that slash isn't the end-all-be-all that you seem to think.

4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Stuff like railjack, the operator, necramechs, in other words "not using a warframe" simply feels worse than using a warframe.

This just simply an opinion, that you are entitled to. But IMO if you're going to find any semblance of Warframe becoming interesting or challenging to you again, it's going to be here (And I'd more so say engaging, than challenging. "Challenging" just doesn't work in games like these.).

4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

1001 bugs (actually, add a couple 0's there)

Welcome to any loot based game in my experience (or any GaaS game really), especially one that's nearing 9 years old. And if you don't see it in other games, that's because you're "on the outside looking in". Nothing is going to look as flawed as a game you've been playing for 4 years and however many hours. Once you've put in the same amount of time and investment in another "loot/GaaS" game, come and let me know if I'm wrong.

[IIX_Vritrayan]

3 hours ago, George_PPS said:

@Traumtulpe

“Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment.”

It’s clearly time for you to take a brake. Why bother to tell people how good you are? 99.99% don’t have loadouts like yours and do not play like this. 
You also said every mission is 1 min except survival. Why do you even do Level 9999? That takes hours to reach that level. You contradicting yourself. 
If you really want more challenge, equip only four Mods for every item before going into missions.  No one cares about such complains. 

This tbh ^

To add to how I feel about this, I feel like meta players are the ones that feel burnt out all the time like OP here. Us just cruising through, just having a fun time playing warframe are the ones who sticks around the longest. Also as you said too there's literally no point hitting 9999, it's just there to stroke a player's ego. Tell me I'm wrong OP.

There's no incentive reaching max 9999 enemies as that takes hours and hours of a person's day (8+ hrs right? Of receiving what rewards exactly? Nothing. Oh wait ego boost, that's about it).

TBH as of right now for min-maxers who builds for the extreme end game, there's no content at the moment for you. That's how WF has been for years, here's hoping it'll turn around and give us a REAL end-game as I want my min-maxed stuff to have some sort of use in the future, but then again we've been hoping for years aren't we? 

TLDR: Just stay on break man, as of right now we still are in the same phase of not having a true end game. If you're interested in new war story and you care about the lore, take a dive as I think it'll be epic.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Could it just be that you are burned out, disinterested and earning for a different experience than Warframe? I feel like some of your reasons interact with each other, and to someone who is say burned out... it compounds a lack of interest and desire to play... but for another person, the reasons actually cancel each other out... 

Like just speaking personally, I dislike monotonous repetitive missions. Your first point basically. Currently in Warframe, farming Aya is a big thing for many people, so running open world bounties over and over. Often when a new Prime releases, people also run Void Capture over and over. Yeah I can't do any of that ha. Doing a Capture with Wukong, Titania or Voly trying do 10 in 10 minutes sounds like hell to me... Personally I need more variety. Incidentally which plays into your third point... do you ever just use weapons and it just feels good? You ever feel like you can use your game knowledge and Warframe abilities to make less popular and more obscure weapons viable? For myself its yes to both, often I will take a weapon I know is viable and reliable and feels good, often I'll experiment and test out other builds. Sometime they can be adequate, sometime they will over perform, sometimes I'll have to rely on the other weapons I brought etc but I have fun. Will do a solo 30 minute Steel Path Survival. 

Which also brings up point 2. Like sure... when I optimise everything, the game becomes easier, naturally. Lets say that you couldn't do level 9999 Steel Mot Survival? Would your issues, criticisms or complaints be any less valid? What sort of difficulty would you personally like, and 1. Would it be popular with others. 2. Some people regardless would be probably be bored with that too right? Like I also know I might be in a minority, in that I personally use less than optimal set ups, on purpose, for the purpose of testing out builds. So I am making things more difficult for myself... not necessarily for the challenge though, personally I just like testing out builds. 

Also to be clear, I am not mentioning any of this as "counter points" to the issues you have. Your interest or lack of interest and the reasons are your own and understandable, at least you are excited about New War? Maybe you need a bigger break from the game? Or to put it another way... right now, I generally enjoy Warframe. In a way, that when I notice a big or glitch it doesn't really bother me. That being said, I often take breaks from Warframe, I took a break before Sisters of Parvos, but returned for that, and really enjoyed it. Generally speaking, when people enjoy something, they can overlook certain issues, on the flip side, when someone isn't enjoying something, but attempting to, often those same issues get magnified and more annoying and compound. Do you think that might be happening here?

Eventually its going to happen to me as well, depending on New War's structure, I could even see myself taking a break come the New Year, (depends if they add content like new weapons, or a new system/mechanics I get to test and experiment with) or is just purely a story quest?!? I'm at a point where some PS5 games I have been looking forward to will be released so my attention will shift... but I tend to take breaks from Warframe, before I start to resent or get frustrated with it, so I often don't harbour any negativity which makes returning to it after a will pretty exciting.

[Felsagger]

28 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Considering the first thing that’s told to everyone is not “Here’s what it takes just to get through a fight”, but instead “Here’s how to make the fight as easy as possible for the sake of the grind”, I’m not surprised that people think the only game worth playing is Grindframe. It’s literally what people keep saying Warframe is.

It’s not exactly hard to see that there’s a grind behind the game, and that intrinsically we strive to make it as easy as possible; other games may make the option to optimise the fun out of the game so tricky to do or require so much effort to do that most people just can’t be bothered, but Warframe presents the capacity to do so right from the very start; it doesn’t take two braincells to rank up a Serration and slap it into every weapon to strip the fight out of a mission and get to the reward at the end easier, and this is an option available at the very start.

So obviously the entirety of Warframe’s progression system would need to be addressed, from the very bottom to the very top; no more easy 5 minute fissure runs, now they’re going to be 10 - 15 minutes, with a potential for longer before a single completion because failure is part of what makes challenge a challenge. And no more “Taking favourite equipment wherever”, it’s going to have to require the right equipment for the mission, instead of “The right tool for the right job… for the sake of the easy grind”.

This doesn’t strike me as terribly feasible. An alternative is to make the grind so much less appealing that it’s not considered worth it, but good luck with that, haha. I’d love to see more limits on how much we can grind, but what’ll happen? “Gee DE, can you make it easier to grind?”. “Clearly you’re pushing us to purchase with low drop rates, I hate the grind but I’m gonna keep playing it because there’s nothing else to do in this game when I build for invincibility, and the smart thing to do is not pay for anything when I can get it for free”.

So no-one wants the grind to be slowed down, and yet some want the grind to be slowed down because they can’t stop grinding, and yet what will happen if the grind gets slowed down is that the only smart thing to do is to make the grind as fast as possible and ask DE to make it easier.

And then we’re sold on the idea that The Game is the Grind and that the only smart thing to do is to take this build or this build and turn the game off for the sake of the grind.

I lost track of what I was on about when I first started this rant, but suffice it to say that Warframe is a case-study of what would happen if everyone had the option to not play the game because the game is only in the way. It’s fascinating, but damn if it isn’t also… 😐

 

 

THIS IS THE EPICENTER of all these discussions. 

 

I have fear to failure, you have fear to failure, everybody have fear to failure because we see ourselves as winners. But winning requires losing and getting experience throughout failure. 

 

War Frame must become a game by beating the players hard with a challenge. Yes, players will eventually overcome the challenge but DE MUST NOT be afraid of beating our sorry Tenno ass. 

 

If we purchase hard games and pay to get our ass beat, why can't DE add serious challenge and dangerous enemies in the game. For example 343i beat us with those one shot jackal snipers. If we are not careful we get our ass split. 

 

DE, please, I beg you, give us some good fair challenge. A defeat is always needed for some humility. :3

 

[TheArmchairThinker]

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.

What kind of "randomization" you want?

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.

Nerf is always a viable option, and removing scaling from warframe abilities to set where is the limit of your power. Let's say the limit is level 150, that means level 151+ is harder and challenging.

The so-called "endgame" in other games is just like that, make you fight enemies above your level/power to make it hard

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.

Time to remove armor ignoring property from slash status effect then

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

What kind of "randomization" you want?

 

I can tell you. 

Once you hunt down the profit taker, you find out in combat that there are TWO with heavy robot spiders as support.

How about once you fight that giant jackal robot there are four of them throughout the stage at that size with heavy armor and shield armed with beam cannons and rail gun. 

How about that in a normal match you encounter a heavy pack of well coordinated ambulas followed by a boss in an unexpected fight. 

All of this can be RNG driven. These encounters can happen at any time in your game. In other words you can evade the fight and finish the goal or head on like a raging wolf into the fight to test how sharp your fangs are. 

 

8 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

The so-called "endgame" in other games is just like that, make you fight enemies above your level/power to make it hard

 

For example: Halo Infinite. 

You are fighting normal enemies and all of the sudden 'whamm' two brutes clubs you with gravity hammers. You don't know where they came from because this time those brutes has jet packs. :3

[Traumtulpe]

27 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Time to remove armor ignoring property from slash status effect then

You cannot kill high end enemies without bypassing armor. Such change would mean people are forced to use 100% armor stripping warframes.

30 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

What kind of "randomization" you want?

Spy missions can have several different paths to the objective, but on higher levels it is always the same paths that are open, everything else is blocked. So once you know the optimal way, you'll always follow it without even looking at the level.

36 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Lets say that you couldn't do level 9999 Steel Mot Survival? Would your issues, criticisms or complaints be any less valid?

At the very least I would have a goal I could strive for. Regarding "just for fun" weapons; I'd still have to level them and use forma on them - so I'd rather just do that with good weapons, as I really despise leveling things in this game.

1 hour ago, KitMeHarder said:

And "does this proc slash"? You do know that encompasses almost every melee, every gun that force procs impact, and every primary you build for crit. As well as many more. Not to mention that if you'd just branch out with what you play, you'd see that slash isn't the end-all-be-all that you seem to think.

A lot of melee weapon classes are NG by default (because of the stances), most secondaries can't really proc slash, primaries without crit are NG. High end enemies have like 99.999% damage reduction. Even corrosive+heat+viral does very badly compared to slash.

1 hour ago, KitMeHarder said:

So go and experience the diversity and length that the open world and railjack missions bring.

I've maxed all of that... I have both necramechs, elite crewmates, a maxed railjack. Still, using a necramech isn't fun or effective (except for the arquebex against enemies without DPS cap).

2 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

You want WF to be something it will never be.

Maybe. Like I said, I like warframe. I had fun with it, and I kind of miss that. I'm like "this could still be fun, if only this annoying bug wasn't there, if these missions weren't the same they've always been, if I had any goals left, if..."etc.

[lukinu_u]

Il y a 5 heures, Kaiga a dit :

I dunno man, people (myself included!) still have a blast playing games like CSGO/team fortress 2, which have been mechanically unchanged for like 5+ years in a row, because the gameplay loop is fun.

Maybe this isn't the game for you

The issue isn't much about renewing stuff, but more about big issues that amplify as the game grow, and can be solved without much efforts.

For example the armor and slash proc issue OP mentionned is a big flaw that have been an issue in Warframe since damage 2.0 and would be fixed by simply changing how slash proc works.
The game have a lot of small issues like these, that could be easily fixed and make the game much better with a few changes.

About the two games you mentioned, they also have similar issues but they are mostly mirrored gameplay PvP so the problems don't negatively affect the game as much, since your opponent isn't an AI that can't counter the way you play, and there will always be some challenge since you fight other players affected by the same issues.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

THIS IS THE EPICENTER of all these discussions. 

 

I have fear to failure, you have fear to failure, everybody have fear to failure because we see ourselves as winners. But winning requires losing and getting experience throughout failure. 

 

War Frame must become a game by beating the players hard with a challenge. Yes, players will eventually overcome the challenge but DE MUST NOT be afraid of beating our sorry Tenno ass. 

 

If we purchase hard games and pay to get our ass beat, why can't DE add serious challenge and dangerous enemies in the game. For example 343i beat us with those one shot jackal snipers. If we are not careful we get our ass split. 

 

DE, please, I beg you, give us some good fair challenge. A defeat is always needed for some humility. :3

 

Man speak for yourself, I ain’t afraid of failure, I literally go seeking situations where failure is present unless I do something about it in the mission. The mission where the fighting happens. Do you know what it involves? Because I can give you a hint; it doesn’t involve shieldgate abusing, ridiculous amounts of overtuned damage for the mission, or expecting to win all the time (which means I don’t grind as fast). Surprise!

That’s my perspective in all of this; if you people aren’t so afraid of failure, then what are you doing avoiding it at all costs and then wondering where the challenge went? As far as I can tell, the justification for optimising the potential fun out of the game is either for the grind, or because “Oh, but muh strength!”. The first is toxic, and the second isn’t personal capacity to fight, it’s literally taking bigger numbers via external modifications into a fight that doesn’t need it; there ain’t anything intrinsic about it, the things you’re slotting literally fell into your lap while playing thanks to the very nature of RNG.

What do you think is going to happen when you take the custom-built nuke to a sword fight? That may I add, was designed to be a nuke; I don’t know how many people crunched the numbers, read the wiki, and crafted the build all while thinking “Here we are; this will be just enough to win”. Unless I’m the only one who looked at all those options from the start of the game and thought to myself “How can I guarantee my victory in these fights?”, then what we’re witnessing is basic cause and effect. The journey of optimising can be fun, I know all parts of that, but then when it loses its fun, mix it up a little

It seriously feels like some players need to be forced to be weak, where all the effort they’ve put into getting more powerful ends up with them dying at the same rate as someone else who hasn’t; there’s like, 6 slots on a weapon taken up by Mandatory Mods, and two left over for actual experimentation. What I’m hearing is that not only do some players want that to be the requirement all the time, for Lith fissures and anything else in the game, but that it should also take into account things like Rivens, because “Can’t live up to mah FULL POTENTIAL unless I’ve also got a God riven”

edit: Just realised you said you already had fear of failure; my bad, I mis-read. My point still stands though; some players act like they would welcome the chance to avoid failure, but it sure doesn’t seem that way

[(NSW)Greybones]

It occurs to me, @Felsagger, that we’re talking about similar things, and I pick it up as I re-read my annoyed post; I remember in another topic saying you spoke my language when we were talking about DE beating the player up by force.

I’d love to see that happen, but why can’t a harder fight be a choice? Why is it so hard to not use the nuke?

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

At the very least I would have a goal I could strive for.

 

So if DE hypothetically raised the enemy cap to be like twice what it currently is... you would find renewed interest in the game, because you now have a goal tp aim for? Interesting. I would have assumed all the other reasons you gave, would prevent you from wanting to stay in a mission to reach the new goal, but I guess thats the cool thing about our preferences and motivations. They can all be different. 

I guess we are different in the sense, that the enemy level cap feels superficial to me, and I can slowly start to enjoy an experience I might not have in the past (like Disruption for example), if I foster appreciation. Or identify what I dislike/like about something and explore the reasons. Same with the fun weapons. For myself they are fun... that they are levelling is a byproduct of enjoying them and pushing them to their limits. Again though, everyone is different. Personally I will use a gun if it has incredible sound design, another player might be like... wait huh... the sounds a gun makes? Matters to you? Well yeah, so can haptic feedback, controller rumbles, ammo reload sounds, animations etc, it can add up, to make a gun feel satisfying. Some people won't care about that, its only about big number, which is also a fair and valid perspective.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.