how did no one noticed the Neutron Star buff changes before it went live?

[Ethorin]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

that Warframes would not be balanced around Helminth.

Building for Neutron Star as Nova sounds... really sucky tbh.

 

Like, frankly, when I'm on Nova I use the Molecular Prime augment for keeping Null Star up.

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

Building for Neutron Star as Nova sounds... really sucky tbh.

But it's not? The Neutron Star buff on a Warframe like Nova makes it not spammable given she is a caster with heavy energy costs (compared to Harrow/Limbo cheese). Her mobility is only second to Titania's Razorwing Blitz, so she can keep up with Gauss/Mirage Zoom/etc. If the augment was left as-is but only worked for Nova, it wouldn't be so widely abused and still very usable and enjoyable.

All this nerf does is push players back into a Thermal Sunder build because DE is balancing around Helminth usage.

[Ethorin]

13 minutes ago, Voltage said:

But it's not?

Literally every vid I've seen of it is generating like six stars at once, that's a teeny tiny amount of duration, it makes me sadge.

[trst]

52 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

That's gulping on the kool-aid right there.

 

You have to ask yourself what all the stats, that weren't mentioned, were. Or maybe why they weren't mentioned, didn't fit the narrative maybe?

 

What is 0.00001% x 64.

It went up because no one was using it before, and now no one will moving forward.

 

Multiplying something with 64 doesn't tell us anything. But it sure sounds like a giant number!!!11 Amirite!?!?!?11

It's not like it was some awful unusable augment before the buffs as it let you recast to reset the damage resistance. Which is sometimes more reliable than the Molecular Prime augment and is the only way to reset it when subsumed. So there's no reason for the base usage to have been as terrible as you're implying.

Regardless, a 64x increase is still a lot especially for a community that doesn't flock to things unless they're exploitable. Also even with them reverting the range buff and adding LoS it's still significantly buffed over the pre-Veilbreaker version.

[Surbusken]

7 minutes ago, trst said:

It's not like it was some awful unusable augment before the buffs as it let you recast to reset the damage resistance. Which is sometimes more reliable than the Molecular Prime augment and is the only way to reset it when subsumed. So there's no reason for the base usage to have been as terrible as you're implying.

Regardless, a 64x increase is still a lot especially for a community that doesn't flock to things unless they're exploitable. Also even with them reverting the range buff and adding LoS it's still significantly buffed over the pre-Veilbreaker version.

 

Without all the metrics, there is no way of knowing, was my point - which obviously goes for everyone, including myself.

 

However, when I see someone only bringing up 1 stat and censoring the rest of the information, I am going to assume their narrative is the opposite of the truth.

So now I do know, thanks to the elegance of an elephant in a porcalain shop PR manuvering.

 

 

[MutoManiac]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

What even was the buff?

You could put it on any frame, go into sanctuary onslaught, even solo, spam the ability and level a frame in a few minutes.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 minutes ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

You could put it on any frame, go into sanctuary onslaught, even solo, spam the ability and level a frame in a few minutes.

Ah ok

[ShogunGunshow]

4 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Since now that Nuetron Star has been nerfed, with the bullsh!t that is LoS of sight (Anyone whose played Ember is already cringing at that phrase) I have to ask...

How did none of the balance team whatsoever caught this before to went live? Did you just change the numbers and procs and didn't even bother to bring it to more than a single mission?

Because it's such a oversight that you didn't notice something like this.

You have to remember that this is the team that swore that Marked for Death was never supposed to deal more damage than the target's max health despite that never being in the text and being easily testable if someone loaded up a whitebox and spawned a level 1 lancer next to a level 10 lancer and used MfD on the former.

I mean, that was just bull. I don't believe even DE's testing is that bad. They just do a very poor job at predicting player behavior - which is kind of weird, because we're honestly not that complicated. Either they screwed up on that again or someone did see it coming but was like 'hey, sure, that might happen, but we don't want to nerf it preemptively. Let's see what players do.'

At least they didn't let y'all get dependent on it for months/years before doing something this time.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, ShogunGunshow said:

At least they didn't let y'all get dependent on it for months/years before doing something this time.

Yah, it could have been the ol' "Molecular Fission was never intended to..." sometime around 2024. 

/cranky Ivara bullet jump noises

[GSDAkatsuki]

Oh boy an easy way to farm mats in a room got nerfed again. Thanks DE to continuously make farming more tedious. I rather they just nerf the damage but keep its AOE crate break interaction. Pretty sure people will just go back to Thermal Sunder

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

It is the nature of a low testing environment. They did not notice that overguard was making it impossible to break a Nox helmet until the overguard was down, but the helmet being intact was giving the overguard crazy damage reduction for almost a month after introducing the mechanic for example ^^;

They really could benefit from allocating a bit more into pre release testing.

Aren't they supposed to have beta test servers for this? With raffles for slots and everything

[--K--Sharkfin]

One more thing to show DE nerf stuffs based on player usage unfortunately. I couldn't tell if DE / testers didn't know how doubling heat proc would cause certain mod(s) to be more powerful than before. As players, we knew vitality is going to be the most useful archon mod on day -14, and found out neutron vitality combination on day -12. (minus because of transmutation bug, resulting in obtaining the mods 2 week prior to its official release)

Despite the mix of archon vitality and neutron star resulted in subjectively slight better version of sunder, many existing sunder titania switched to neutron titania, with additional players started using neutron star because of the fame promoted by youtubers and streamers, boosting the usage by 67 times.

67 times may sound a lot to DE, but let's be honest, how many people used the recently buffed neutron star? Not to mention the neutron star buff from totally useless (blast damage with 8m range) to barely useful (double damage, 100% heat proc, 16m range) was just a month old. Not much people knew the change / were using it yet.

I tried neutron star with archon vitality, to be fair it was just slightly better than sunder.  I feel that nerfing something not particularly powercreep compared to other options, but because of sudden rise in reputation is really a stupid way to balance a game.

[(PSN)rexis12]

3 hours ago, Surbusken said:

 

Without all the metrics, there is no way of knowing, was my point - which obviously goes for everyone, including myself.

 

However, when I see someone only bringing up 1 stat and censoring the rest of the information, I am going to assume their narrative is the opposite of the truth.

So now I do know, thanks to the elegance of an elephant in a porcalain shop PR manuvering.

 

 

Statistics may not lie, but you can present it in a way that makes it worse.

For example they could have said that Nuetron Star augment was increased by 100% and fail to mention that without the original value it could easily just mean.

1% -> 2%

 

[TheArmchairThinker]

9 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Apparently neither balance nor testing is a DE strong point. 

How did no one ever guess this before now? :P

That said, out of all the crazy oversights over the years, this is a pretty mild one to make somebody lose their  ****, lol.

Oh boy, you should go to bungie forums and see for yourself, it's on meltdown over unbalanced and untested mess they made. This is very mild compared to that mess 

[TheArmchairThinker]

Archon Vitality + Blazing Trail anyone?

[Hayrack]

Lmao. I saw the notification about the new patch and thought: "Nerfs again, huh...". Lo and behold 😆

[0_The_F00l]

I didn't use this augment and i didn't notice it until they specifically highlighted it being nerfed (the only frame that has this ability in my loadout is Nova)

I assume players saw some youtuber talk about how broken it was and jumped on the bandwagon cause it was actually effective and required minimum effort and investment (relatively speaking)

I am not surprised that it shot up in popularity now that I see it closely (and only when paired with very specific mods) or that DE nerfed it as a result.

Nor am I surprised that DE did not catch it (considering it is a helminth ability and there can be some twisted combinations that it can work with that could fly under the radar until built just right)

I am surprised that they changed it within a month though , 

But am i happy about it ? Not completely , mostly cause of how they justified it and the hoops you need to jump in to get it to be effective.

I am as disappointed by this as I was for the marked for death changes.

As to the topic at hand , wanting other abilities to be LoS , maybe but each will have to be looked at by itself and what other mechanics it can be paired with , not just a blanket LoS condition.

[RichardKam]

Because the collective wisdom of the 50k+ player community is certainly more powerful than a team of 100+ developer, especially when lots of people are actively researching new builds all the time on ytube.

You know what meme builds are also ridiculously powerful? Saryn + sobek + acid shell. Or Saryn + Tenet Exec shock wave. 

Back to the topic. I will consider the helminth ability + neutron star + heat inheritance under "meme" build category, but it crosses the line into "dominance" category. Given how spam-able and powerful this combination is, I knew it was going to get nerfed since it was discovered on day one. 

Not that it was nerfed to the ground though. Neutron star is still a pretty cheap CC and damage reduction and mini nuke all-in-one. Unfortunately we won't see another round of review bomb entertainment because of the change.

[Leqesai]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Ah, gotcha, so they have to be in your camera's view "cone", even if they are obstructed by a wall.  That vibes!

Yeah it's a weird one but it really isn't a noticeable limitation since warframe is generally about forward momentum. As you move through the maps spamming 4 you only lose contact with the enemies that fall off screen.

[MutoManiac]

It was just as effective if not more effective than a Saryn in places like Hydron. Nothing to kill for anyone else, so I was expecting it. I hate to be that guy, but it was probably for the best. Now give me back my ammo 😉

[sunderthefirmament]

14 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

They really could benefit from allocating a bit more into pre release testing

Especially with crossplay coming, and how that tends to sloooow down updates, patches, and developer response time. 

[NoblePhantasm]

Might as well nerf gauss's thermal sunder too since they decides to nerf everything AoE........

[Smiky]

15 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

What? They nerfed it? Goddamnabit! Was fun for a few weeks. Leveled frames really fast even without boosters.

Its always the same.... no fun allowed in Warframe according to DE

[ShogunGunshow]

16 minutes ago, Smiky said:

Its always the same.... no fun allowed in Warframe according to DE

It was only fun for the person using it.