Crossplay: A failure that sacrificed the enjoyment of PC players to the altar of trendiness

[Lilybun]

2 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

so 2 months without fixes for ability casting while aim gliding doesn't bothers you? :) it all because of crossplay and stupid console cert

I have very low expectations when it comes to game devs. On par with government departments.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Lilybun

[Circle_of_Psi]

53 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Yeah, there definitely aren't anyone on PC that falls under this category.

Well, I don't know about you, as everyone has a different experience but what I have experienced is that I rarely tend to have PC players who fall under that category, unless it's to dow it's their actual PC.

Most of my experience with consoles is indeed Unfamiliar, with unresponsive players lagging behind in controllability and outright terrible player performance, now I have a strong opinion on why this is the case but when I tend to share it, it can come across as wrong or even a little bit rude, so I'll refrain from doing so, if you do want to know, I'll try my best to word it carefully here.

But just note this is the common experience that I have and many people I play with in a Clan (Other game) and a group of folks, also share this experience and feelings on the matter, what others may experience can be completely different to mine.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

I have found zero issues with crossplay and infact have played with only 5 people total that have had anything negative to say about it.  including random parties.  5 people out of hundreds if not thousand + players i have personally played with

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Thanks to this thread I now know why I couldn't keep Life Support up for over 30 minutes without a loot frame when I was on PS4. Enemy spawn rates were reduced. The original Nightwave challenge to survive in Kuva Survival for 60 minutes was borderline impossible even with Nekros.

I've noticed I never had this issue since I upgraded to PS5 and now I know why.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

so 2 months without fixes for ability casting while aim gliding doesn't bothers you? it all because of crossplay and stupid console cert

 

On 2023-03-22 at 4:06 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

As mentioned in today’s Devstream #169, the Digital Extremes team is going dark as we put all our efforts into preparing for the next major chapter in Warframe: The Duviri Paradox!

 

What exactly does that mean? 

Starting now until the release of The Duviri Paradox in April, we will not be hotfixing or updating. 

But fret not! We will still be around, just in a more limited capacity as we shift our focus to Duviri. The team will continue to monitor for bugs and anything else that requires our attention during this dormancy period. 

 

[TheKurtiStryke]

the things i noticed are:

1) low enemy spawn rate, and this is the most annoying one

2) loading time is longer, but not that bad, like +20 seconds than normal?

 

i think De should disbale that "enemy spawn number" lock, it's dumb....instead it should improve something else for console.

Edited April 9, 2023 by TheKurtiStryke

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

You know, it's funny that you all are acting like this is DE's fault, when you are the ones crying and begging for years. 

Like yeah, host migrations are horrible (guess what, they've always been awful), trying to connect to a pub lobby can sometimes be awful, and sometimes it's terrible when the console player doesn't show up because of said terrible time connecting. 

But you can't complain if you asked for this. We literally have railjack etc. as examples to show what this would be like at launch, and last time I checked, we are still part of a CROSS PLAY TEST. 

Also, asking DE to end support on older gen consoles is just straight up rude, especially considering that cross save isn't out yet, and there's no way we're dropping $500 to continue our accounts if we could put it towards a PC so in reality you'd just be killing Warframe even more than the cross play server issues ever will.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Today I learned that wanting to play a game with a friend is a "trend".

Today I learned if you give a community what they want as early access, they'll turn around and act like all the issues are a result or your incompetence/laziness.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

 

 

I think a lot of us know that it’s a known issue. That doesn’t change our experience with the game as it stands. If this issue happened two years ago, it would have been fixed for PC within days or weeks. Not months. 
 

The point is that bugs and glitches fester longer now because DE’s hands are tied by the console cert schedule.  I’m glad DE is aware of this issue and has communicated that awareness to us. Until the results of their actions on that awareness reach me as a player, I’m playing a worse version of the game. And I wouldn’t be if crossplay weren’t a thing. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by sunderthefirmament

[Merrcenary]

43 минуты назад, (XBOX)C11H22O11 сказал:

  В 22.03.2023 в 21:06, [DE]Danielle сказал:

As mentioned in today’s Devstream #169, the Digital Extremes team is going dark as we put all our efforts into preparing for the next major chapter in Warframe: The Duviri Paradox!

 

What exactly does that mean? 

Starting now until the release of The Duviri Paradox in April, we will not be hotfixing or updating. 

But fret not! We will still be around, just in a more limited capacity as we shift our focus to Duviri. The team will continue to monitor for bugs and anything else that requires our attention during this dormancy period. 

🤡
it doesn't justify why they didn't fix it for a month long before they decided to focus on duviri

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Today I learned that wanting to play a game with a friend is a "trend".

Wanting to play with friends on different consoles simultaneously might not be a "trend" in the ephemeral sense of the word, but it certainly is a relatively new phenomenon in gaming.  Crossplay requests certainly weren't taken seriously 10-15 years ago.  It's only in the past few years that these initiatives have taken off and even become expected by modern gamers.

 

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with "wanting to play a game with a friend," but it would be inaccurate to act as if crossplay isn't relatively new on the scene.  If I had asked Bioware why I couldn't play Mass Effect 3 multiplayer on my 360 with my friend on his PS3 back in the day, I would have been laughed off of their forums.  Nowadays, such a question is much more common.

[SneakyErvin]

My only gripe is the reduced spawn rates when playing with certain console hosts in things like survival, but then again I dont do survival in groups for the most part. When I do it tends to be star chart fissure survival at the most for relic cracking, at which point I dont give a flying squat how many or few enemies there are, since it is tedious and boring all the same and I'm there for one reason only, more people with more relics.

And if I group for other endless modes, I only see a benefit in reduced rates, since again it is already trivial to start with. Heck I solo arbitration defense because it is much more efficient due to the drastically lower spawn rate, meaning several more rotations can be knocked out per minute.

As to the rest with slow loading and so on. Nothing new under the sun here, had the same issues when it was PC only with tater hosts and shoestring+plastic cup connection/wi-fi. I also havent seen a reduction in player performance or people lagging behind more due to lacking controlability, same scrubba-dubba-doo avarage as always.

That said, I do think DE should put hosting limitations in place to reduce the risk of running into last gen console and tater-PC hosts. But that is something that should have been done long ago since the top-to-bottom spread of PCs alone is massive.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

inb4 DE announce after Duviri they are dropping last gen console and switch support, and considerably raising minimum specs for PC, so potato players get the axe as well. "upgrade them by force, and let their hardware sort them out."

jokes aside I don't think DE would have the gall to pull this off, not for a few more years at least, but it would be a long term fix, as everyone would be on the same playing field, but not every account would survive as not everyone could afford or even want to move.. in which case, tough luck for them I suppose. there'd be a LOT of salt on the forums too.

the day will come though. I saw it happen firsthand back when GTAO moved to PS4/XB1 from the PS3/360. no further fixes or updates, and people went nuts: didn't stop the majority from forking out to make the move though.

so if you're on last gen or running a potato, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it: you're kinda holding everyone back, and while it's likely not your fault due to financial situation, console/ PC parts availability etc and other external factors.. the cord is gonna be cut at some point. I just hope that when DE gets to that point they give people plenty of warning in advance and a detailed description of what PC gamers will need to run Warframe again. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

51 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I think a lot of us know that it’s a known issue. That doesn’t change our experience with the game as it stands. If this issue happened two years ago, it would have been fixed for PC within days or weeks. Not months. 
 

The point is that bugs and glitches fester longer now because DE’s hands are tied by the console cert schedule.  I’m glad DE is aware of this issue and had communicated that awareness to us. Until the results of their actions on that awareness reach me as a player, I’m playing a worse version of the game. And I wouldn’t be if crossplay weren’t a thing. 

 

50 minutes ago, Merrcenary said:

🤡
it doesn't justify why they didn't fix it for a month long before they decided to focus on duviri

Just to clarify I'm not trying to make excuses for them just tried to give a reason why they're not doing anything now, and why they didn't fix it 1 month before that announcement is the reason you were complaining about which is console certification.

Like I said before they would have to stop supporting older hardware but I doubt they'll do it since it means losing a chunk of players, they could prevent last gen consoles and potato PCs ( I guess Mobile too in the future) from hosting that would probably help a lot right now.

[Kaiga]

11 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

🤡
it doesn't justify why they didn't fix it for a month long before they decided to focus on duviri

This. The console lag almost assuredly moved this downtime up

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

The game ran fine even up until a couple updates ago for old gen. That's not the players fault. Somewhere DEs optimization went downhill. The one thing I do feel bad about is PC players now waiting for updates because of cert on consoles.

[MagPrime]

 

[Skoomaseller]

I don't think implementing crossplay was to "chase trends" but more just to connect everyone so we all play together. This isn't a bad thing. 

but yeah everyone now being on console cert schedule for updates has definitely hurt. and also the downsides of having a console host.

this isn't the fault of the player of course but I hope they can remedy the problems soon.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-04-07 at 8:34 PM, taiiat said:

yes yes i'm aware it's only the older Consoles that are applicable for that (and Switch), i know who to blame and not to blame

I think this is where the conversation should remain focused on. Older gen consoles, and older HDD PCs, are the issue with this advancement. I think an excellent option would be for us to have the ability to select between new gen, legacy, all or PC only. 

Personally, I guess I haven't focused on the downsides much because PS5 and PS4 players are used to the differences. It is a night and day difference regarding overall gameplay experience but I didn't find myself as hindered by a PS4 host as what some of you guys are discussing. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

8 hours ago, MagPrime said:

 

What does this got to do with consoles? Consoles never used that ancient technology.

Edited April 9, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Corvid]

51 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

What does this got to do with consoles? Consoles never used that ancient technology.

I'm fairly certain that they're pointing out that the calls for DE to raise the game's minimum specs are rather redundant, given that they're already doing it.

To say nothing of the fact that dropping potato PCs like some players are suggesting kind of goes against DE's ethos when it comes to accessibility. They want low-spec players to be able to run the game, which is something that I honestly admire them for (bear in mind that my own PC is pretty high-end).

[(XBOX)Mineslayer2010]

pro tip make your ping requirements lower so you don't join slow console hosts or slow hosts in general. I'm on the new-gen console and actually, I feel like sometimes pc makes our loading way slower than normal. Although it's rare because I will be running into people with NASA computers. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

I'm fairly certain that they're pointing out that the calls for DE to raise the game's minimum specs are rather redundant, given that they're already doing it.

To say nothing of the fact that dropping potato PCs like some players are suggesting kind of goes against DE's ethos when it comes to accessibility. They want low-spec players to be able to run the game, which is something that I honestly admire them for (bear in mind that my own PC is pretty high-end).

Ahhh ok fair enough.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Mineslayer2010 said:

pro tip make your ping requirements lower so you don't join slow console hosts or slow hosts in general. I'm on the new-gen console and actually, I feel like sometimes pc makes our loading way slower than normal. Although it's rare because I will be running into people with NASA computers. 

Before crossplay, ping limiters were really effective. Now, I feel like they’re only applying when matching with other PC players.  It might be that I’m not well versed enough in tech speak to understand whether the delays I’m experiencing are due to bad ping or due to the host console’s processing power. But the result is largely the same: a worse experience with greater delays and a nagging thought in the back of my mind (“Why couldn’t I be hosting?”). 

[ShogunGunshow]

DE's QA (or lack of it) practices have been .... problematic in a cross-play world.

In the past they would release first on PC, find bugs rapidly from players, patch them over a few weeks, then that would eventually get pushed to console with a lot of fixes pre-baked.

Now they seem to do the same amount of QA as before but with a cert schedule, DE gets maybe one or two passes at fixing things before their QA is dragged into inadequately testing the next patch.

Warframe has always had bugs but the explosion of them since cross-play has been ....concerning,  to say the least.

They need to staff up on their QA.