The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.

[Royal_Espeon]

Who would've thought that this topic about predatory monetization would lead to us looking at how much we've spent on the game and sharing it with others. Great job DE, you've managed to get us to successfully look at our investment and reconsider how much we put into your game. Instead of making a simple cosmetic bundle and getting a cool 20-25 bucks from the majority of the players, you instead have everyone and their grandma blasting you for predatory schemes and rethinking their investment in your game as a whole. 

[kamisama85]

2 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Ive been playing Warframe for 10 years

However this is a sort of farewell, I will come back to play every Quest because....
 

No it's not farewell. Sounds more like an addict saying "I can quit anytime!". Just like the "Let's vote with our wallets!" people.

[DogsConkers]

I don't know whether to be sad because people actually paying ungodly amounts for trivial items sets the bar too high for us ordinary folks who can't afford such luxuries or happy because these whales are keeping the game alive and free to play for us. Confusing times.

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Claytronus02:

Who would've thought that this topic about predatory monetization would lead to us looking at how much we've spent on the game and sharing it with others. Great job DE, you've managed to get us to successfully look at our investment and reconsider how much we put into your game. Instead of making a simple cosmetic bundle and getting a cool 20-25 bucks from the majority of the players, you instead have everyone and their grandma blasting you for predatory schemes and rethinking their investment in your game as a whole. 

I know right? Just checked my spendings. Not as much as others but still pumped 300 USD into Warframe which is like 5 brand new AAA Titles. and i did it because Warframe seemed to not do those typical greedy bundles other F2P Games do... I would love to Buy the Mag skin or both in a Bundle that does not have a blown up price because of stuff i neither want or need. 

As a MRL3 i need neither Aya or plat...

[-Krism-]

28 minutes ago, Claytronus02 said:

Who would've thought that this topic about predatory monetization would lead to us looking at how much we've spent on the game and sharing it with others. Great job DE, you've managed to get us to successfully look at our investment and reconsider how much we put into your game. Instead of making a simple cosmetic bundle and getting a cool 20-25 bucks from the majority of the players, you instead have everyone and their grandma blasting you for predatory schemes and rethinking their investment in your game as a whole. 

Exactly, as I said in another one of my replies, somewhere in this thread, I don't have the intention of spending money or plat in this game anymore

[(PSN)Unstar]

Personally I think the value proposition is solid.  Regal Aya can be used to get a la carte Prime Accessories, which I don't have many of.  The skins are nice, and for a nice occasion, with a supporter pack feel.  So for someone who wants to support the game and likes the things inside of it, I think this is a special way to do that.  But for people who don't, that's totally valid, too.  It's a cosmetic bundle of optional goods for a video game, so thankfully there's no reason to buy it if it's not your thing.

[Royal_Espeon]

Just now, (PSN)Unstar said:

Personally I think the value proposition is solid.  Regal Aya can be used to get a la carte Prime Accessories, which I don't have many of.  The skins are nice, and for a nice occasion, with a supporter pack feel.  So for someone who wants to support the game and likes the things inside of it, I think this is a special way to do that.  But for people who don't, that's totally valid, too.  It's a cosmetic bundle of optional goods for a video game, so thankfully there's no reason to buy it if it's not your thing.

Would be nicer if there was a bundle without anything bloating the price, whether it's value is good or not. 90 bucks is 90 bucks. A 4090 has way more value than a 4070, doesn't mean everyone can afford the 4090. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

19 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

I think this is all very fair and valid. Also well articulated. 

However you emphasis a lot on the very subjective and inherently self justifying nature of ones own specifically, exclusive feelings/thoughts. 

Consider yourself to imagine a scenario or situation you do think you would feel cheated, or manipulated or pressured or not okay with something. Okay, well then imagine someone telling you "eh, not to me though", what does that do for you or tell you? Not everything needs to be "well in my opinion" as if we aren't capable of considering others perspectives and greater trends and how that in turn can affect and influence individuals via the standards and practices companies can use. 

You get what I am trying to say? I am not trying to pick an argument, and I don't disagree with your take, and I think its a very acceptable and valid stance, I just want to give a bit of additional context here. 

To me, when you generalise FOMO, and talk about it so broadly, whilst that can be accurate to how you feel, for many, it glosses over the issue in reality. Not all games use FOMO the same way, not even games by themselves use of FOMO is the same, that can vary in execution as well. Some don't use it as a motivating seller. Do you play every single game available? Or do you pick and choose based on preference or other factors that matter to you? Can you thus them imagine that for someone, the actual specifics and details about how games handle FOMO may be an important factor to them? 

You generally consider yourself pretty positive on DE right? As per our conversations of the past. You don't think that DE is one of the more ethical or consumer friendly Devs around? Or would you say "well games devs all generally want to make money, so DE is just like the rest really, nothing special, I don't care if they have higher standards". 

Good conversation. Here's my take:

Honestly, I should not care about another person's thoughts or feelings if I am expressing my own review about something. I think doing so removes honest thoughts and replaces it with emotionally babysitting adults, tiptoing around my real thoughts in an attempt to guide others more gently to persuasion or opposing. I'm not saying this to be rude but I think people try too hard to impose their motives onto any subject, thus attempting to take over for the sake of winning the argument. I'm saying this because my review is about me and my experience, not someone else's biases, excuses, self righteousness, thoughts or feelings. Otherwise, it would not be my experience anymore and the invitation for others to share their experiences would be corrupted. It would turn mostly into a therapy session for people while I attempt to simply give my perspective about my own journey. This is exactly why I made absolutely sure to add in a clause that basically says "whether you do or don't, it's cool".

In regards to FOMO, year specific rewards and promotional offerings have always been a common selling method in games and businesses alike. If anything, the Warframe community, and some other gaming communities (again, I have to include this clause now) have been spoiled by not having these promotions often. DE does not primarily hype this game up with "MUST PURCHASE NOW!!" promotions. Instead, it's usually, "hey, look at what you're going to play soon!!". In fact, players begged DE to CREATE promotional videos for prime frames.

So, regarding my view of DE and my mostly positive opinion of them, you are correct. DE offers more insight, access, communication, community promotion, community interactivity and a more constant strive for improving and progressing than any other gaming company out there...and most businesses. This doesn't mean that I don't criticize them, however this does mean that I will look at criticisms from others and call out when it's coming from pessimistic people, trolls and people with specific agendas. It is way too easy for people to bring out pitchforks because being negative is more exciting and dramatic. Not addressing that is a great way to lose good things.

Anyway, good questions and call-outs. 

[MirageKnight]

For those that are curious, I'll leave this here.
 

 

[Troll_Logic]

On 2023-08-26 at 2:49 PM, Sasorika said:

Guys, start breaking down these things before complaining.

2 Skins , 165p each = 18€
600p = 30€
6 aya´s = 18€

_____

66€ 

+ 
Color Palette  = 70p =5€ 
+ 
all the extras inside  that pack....

I say sounds fair.

Source:
https://www.warframe.com/buyplatinum

Fair?  Depends on A LOT of factors.

1).  Sure, someone gets platinum, but do they need it?

2).  Platinum is extremely overpriced, especially in the tiny amounts.

3).  Sure, someone gets aya, but do they need it?

4).  Aya is extremely overpriced.

5).  $5 for a color palette?  Come on.

6).  Aya, platinum, and the color palette literally cost nothing to create or duplicate.

7).  So the price includes all sorts of things the players probably don't want or would ever buy.

"Yes, I'd like a burger."

"Sure.  That would be $50."

"$50 for a burger?"

"But it's a great deal.  You get our tokens that are good for stickers you don't want, but they are worth $20.  You also get food tokens that you can use for specialty food.  Sure, that food is extremely overpriced, but the tokens are worth another $20.  You also get a coloring book that's worth $10.  Add everything up, and the burger is basically FREE.  That's a great deal for you."

[Marvelous_A]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

"Yes, I'd like a burger."

"Sure.  That would be $50."

"$50 for a burger?"

"But it's a great deal.  You get our tokens that are good for stickers you don't want, but they are worth $20.  You also get food tokens that you can use for specialty food.  Sure, that food is extremely overpriced, but the tokens are worth another $20.  You also get a coloring book that's worth $10.  Add everything up, and the burger is basically FREE.  That's a great deal for you."

Not only this. 

"And what's the deal of the food tokens?"

"They are premium tokens."

"Premium?"

"You get premium burgers with them."

"OK but then why are those burgers not purchasable with the premium tokens?"

"They are special premium burgers. And we shove in some special premium token so that you can trade for the special premium burgers."

"You have premium and special premium tokens I see. And why are these burgers not available for both the premium and special premium tokens?"

"Well because they are ultra-special premium burgers."

Edited September 1, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[Genitive]

15 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I dont see how DE deserves this kind of wild speculation over a set of skins meant to be a supporter pack. They literally give us Dex skins for free and they're about just as nice as these. They showed 2 more deluxe plat skins at Tennocon too. I was shocked at the price too, but i just dont get the rage and automatically calling them scum for trying to make money.

Oh, this absolutely did get out of hand. Criticism is deserved, but come on.

[wodanclay]

I have seemingly spent $611 on Warframe, according to steam, over a period of 10 years. But I am not a 10 year supporter, hm.

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Not only this. 

"And what's the deal of the food tokens?"

"They are premium tokens."

"Premium?"

"You get premium burgers with them."

"OK but then why are those burgers not purchasable with the premium tokens?"

"They are special premium burgers. And we shove in some special premium token so that you can trade for the special premium burgers."

"You have premium and special premium tokens I see. And why are these burgers not available for both the premium and special premium tokens?"

"Well because they are ultra-special premium burgers."

You don't even have to make it extreme.

"Hey I would like to buy a burger please."

"Oh what drink do you want."

"No drinks, just a burger."

"Sorry sir, we can only sell you a set."

"Why, just sell me a Burger without the set. I just want a burger, I don't want a drink, or fries."

"Sorry sir, we can only sell the set."

[(PSN)IdoThea]

On 2023-08-26 at 10:02 PM, S.Dust said:

I want it so bad but im POOOOOOOOOOR ;-;

 

IM on the phone with my girlfriend getting her to convince me not to bite the bullet I'm so weak. I don't even play the game that much anymore but I have 3k hours 

 

Bruh they couldn't give a discount for people who bought the tennocon bundle at least ;-;

 

What makes me sad is there wont be any change to these packs no matter how mad the community is because people probably already bit the bullet and bought it.

By the Void you should definitely buy it!!! Don't listen all this nonsense these non believers say trust in Void and it shall gift you with greatness.

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

You don't even have to make it extreme.

"Hey I would like to buy a burger please."

"Oh what drink do you want."

"No drinks, just a burger."

"Sorry sir, we can only sell you a set."

"Why, just sell me a Burger without the set. I just want a burger, I don't want a drink, or fries."

"Sorry sir, we can only sell the set."

"Why can't I just buy the burger?"

"Sorry sir if we sold you just the burger the families in the dining area would get upset"

"Why?"

"Because we also made them buy the set and it wouldn't be fair"

"Why didn't you just sell them the burger then?"

"....."


Shout from the managers office: 

"MONEeeY BAYBEEee"

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Honestly, I should not care about another person's thoughts or feelings if I am expressing my own review about something. I think doing so removes honest thoughts and replaces it with emotionally babysitting adults, tiptoing around my real thoughts in an attempt to guide others more gently to persuasion or opposing. I'm not saying this to be rude but I think people try too hard to impose their motives onto any subject, thus attempting to take over for the sake of winning the argument. I'm saying this because my review is about me and my experience, not someone else's biases, excuses, self righteousness, thoughts or feelings. Otherwise, it would not be my experience anymore and the invitation for others to share their experiences would be corrupted. It would turn mostly into a therapy session for people while I attempt to simply give my perspective about my own journey. This is exactly why I made absolutely sure to add in a clause that basically says "whether you do or don't, it's cool".

 

I generally agree with you, but do you think its possible, that you are actually caring about other peoples thoughts and feelings, interpreting them in a way that makes sense to yourself, and then expressing yourself? I mean, its a pretty natural process that most of is intuitively and inherently tend to do. It may also not be that we specifically care about specific individuals exact sentiment or focus in on addressing any one individual. 

For example, in the post of yours that I quoted, you declared that you didn't feel cheated. This would heavily suggest that you are probably aware that some people do feel cheated right? This isn't meant to be a gotcha to be clear, I just want to make sure we are on common ground on this, and generally agree. I am not saying this is a bad thing either, to be aware of discourse. and to have a reaction to it. 

It does tie into a point I want to make though, because as far as communication and ways of expression, and how we employ rhetoric, what we can often do, is mix together points in ways, which can implicitly undermine or downplay other points. Which also, isn't inherently bad either. Can depend on the context. 

For an example, you tie together the premise of finding Warframes first ten years wonderful and as a way to support them for ten more, with the idea purchasing this pack, thanks DE, you tie a lot of positives, in opposition to other peoples negative takes. Not inherently bad, but the implication is that someone can't agree with you over many of the positives you mentioned, if they also express or think that the pack isn't a good way to support DE or that this is the only way to support DE. Or that they can't agree with you over the positive highlights, but still consider this a negative move on their part. Again, not inherently bad, and I know you don't actually say that, but I just wanted to highlight it, because its a type of rhetoric that does undermine many legitimate and valid criticisms. 

I don't think anyone should tippy toe or walk on eggshells. I think we all benefit when we understand a little about rhetorical techniques (even subconscious efforts.), and I have been around the site and know some of your views, that we both are familiar with this too, because we tend to be positive about a lot of things that also have vocal critics, and such rhetoric is used a lot in many contexts. "You won't ever fault or criticise DE because you are white knighting" and more, but sometimes said with more attempted subtlety. Sometimes we just enjoy something Warframe does. 

If it helps, the shortish version of what I am trying to communicate, is that we can often accidentally tie different seperate points together, which can undermine other peoples gripes or issues (I think DE is great and had done great, therefore thus supporting the Heirloom bundle is something I did to support them VS, I think DE is great and had done great, and therefore I am critical of the Heirloom bundle because, various reasons. I am happy to and will support DE, but not like this, because I think this harms DE's reputation), Basically, people who are fie with the Heirloom situation, don't get exclusivity or sole ownership of the "I think DE is great and i am willing to support them" market. Just like I would personally be careful to categorically declare and insist that any who purchase the bundles... are definitively and with intent trying to harm DE's reputation. I think that would be unfair thing to accuse and assert, even if I potentially believed that. Its important to not overly conflate issues this way, because like you say, such tactics are usually about winning an argument and ehhh those are kind of lame (people online just trying to win arguments and not actually just trying to talk and discuss things and be fair to each other). 

 

8 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

In regards to FOMO, year specific rewards and promotional offerings have always been a common selling method in games and businesses alike. If anything, the Warframe community, and some other gaming communities (again, I have to include this clause now) have been spoiled by not having these promotions often. DE does not primarily hype this game up with "MUST PURCHASE NOW!!" promotions. Instead, it's usually, "hey, look at what you're going to play soon!!". In fact, players begged DE to CREATE promotional videos for prime frames.

 

Sure, I agree, but thats a little broad too really. Like, I assume you like most of the DE dev team right? Reb, Pablo, plus the former Devs (as far as Warframe, but now working on Soul Frame). If hypothetically, someone above them in power and authority, had the ability to just fire them all, I assume you'd probably have a negative reaction to that? If a lot of DE were laid off and replaced? Many of them are the reason, the positives we agree Warframe had had, and may yet to have, so we appreciate them and attribute much of that to them. However its also true generally, that many businesses fire people. Could you imagine feeling a bit negative, and having specific gripes about this course of action, but some other peoples attitudes are "meh, people get fired everyday" like huh? 

I do also agree that Warframe usually does not pursue that sort of hype, would you agree that their lack of doing so, speaks to some sort of atmosphere and attitude that could be attributed to them by many, as thus, DE being more consumer friendly, relatively ethical, and careful about practices that some may define or label as predatory, and that DE can benefit and foster such goodwill? Even if you may not personally worry that they ever actually are guilty of predatory tactics? Since its an easy step to get from there to understanding why many people are so negative now, and may even feel betrayed or that DE is starting to show (potentially) more signs of moving away from why many were so willing to support them. 

 

8 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

So, regarding my view of DE and my mostly positive opinion of them, you are correct. DE offers more insight, access, communication, community promotion, community interactivity and a more constant strive for improving and progressing than any other gaming company out there...and most businesses. This doesn't mean that I don't criticize them, however this does mean that I will look at criticisms from others and call out when it's coming from pessimistic people, trolls and people with specific agendas. It is way too easy for people to bring out pitchforks because being negative is more exciting and dramatic. Not addressing that is a great way to lose good things.

Anyway, good questions and call-outs. 

 

I generally agree with most of this too, yeah. Also I do know you do criticise them too. For the record, I actually really appreciate your perspective and presence on the Forums. I may not always agree with you about everything, but I like that you often stand by what I believe are your sincere and genuine thoughts, and feelings, even if you are surrounded by people with the opposite take. Since sometimes that can be rough on people. Not suggesting it is for you, you seem pretty solid and confident about just being yourself regardless. In that respect I also think you bring a nice balancing affect to the forums. I don't think its healthy for a Forum to only be made up of like minded individuals. 

I don't necessarily agree with the pitchfork example, because like with what I just said to you, I think that same sincerity and honesty and confidence also applies to negativity as well. There are a lot of users, who I respect around here, even though I very much disagree with them over many things, as far as preferences, and they generally seem more negative over things, I am not etc, but they are still respectable, sincere, honest, etc they just trend to being a bit more negative and skeptical as well.  Like I may not always agree with you and them, we can usually find ways to generally be fair. 

Thanks and thank you for amicable. I often threads like these benefit when people with opposing views can still be friendly, warm and courteous with each other. 

Cheers as well, feel free to follow up again, I can promise my next reply won't be as long, since I covered most of what I wanted to, and also didn't really disagree much about what you were saying, if anything my interest in language, communication and rhetorical techniques is to blame. Thank you for your time and thoughts. 

[TheArmchairThinker]

10 hours ago, DogsConkers said:

I don't know whether to be sad because people actually paying ungodly amounts for trivial items sets the bar too high for us ordinary folks who can't afford such luxuries or happy because these whales are keeping the game alive and free to play for us. Confusing times.

[Aky.Minowara]

Oh, come on! The problem is not the price tag. 

The problem is that pack is unobtainable for most of the players. When you lock that after you promise not to do that again, well, that doesn't look too good, isn't it?

The sole motivation, for me anyway, to spend in this game was F2P status. I felt like was my duty to support a developer who treats me fairly. Wherever I was asked "why to play this game?" my response was "because is fun, look amazing, story is mind-blowing and everything you see you can have it for free, if you don't want/afford to spend real money", but that's not the truth anymore, isn't it?

Btw, not that is matter, but out of curiosity, I actually calculated how much I've spent in Warframe so far. Less than everyone, it seems, only 683 €. 

By the way, until I played WF, when I spent money in a game, I did it to earn other money back, obviously more than I spent, for profit.

When I entered the world of Warframe, I progressed from Corpus to Tenno.

[TheArmchairThinker]

5 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

5).  $5 for a color palette?  Come on.

Following the 75 platinum for a color palette, if it's $5 for the lowest amount (based on regional pricing), there's no difference in price

[Aky.Minowara]

23 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Following the 75 platinum for a color palette, if it's $5 for the lowest amount (based on regional pricing), there's no difference in price

That's not the problem. Like I said in my first reply (scroll up, same page), the price for what the packs have is correct. Problem is those packages are unobtainable for the majority of the players.

Remove the time limit and set the price in platinum, in game market and all is perfect. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Aky.Minowara
Forgot to disable the autocorrect

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (NSW)Justarius:

"Why can't I just buy the burger?"

"Sorry sir if we sold you just the burger the families in the dining area would get upset"

"Why?"

"Because we also made them buy the set and it wouldn't be fair"

"Why didn't you just sell them the burger then?"

"....."


Shout from the managers office: 

"MONEeeY BAYBEEee"

I dispise how DE is trying to hide behind the whales they have already successfully hunted. If they really were sorry for their mistake they would unpack the bundles and offer refunds or partial refunds for anyone who wants to downgrade to a lower pack. But as always the thing they are sorry for is getting caught, not the hostile sales tactics themselves.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Justarius said:

Shout from the managers office: 

"MONEeeY BAYBEEee"

No no no...

Shout from the manager's office:

Just tell 'em we're putting more fries in their box!

[Circle_of_Psi]

48 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I dispise how DE is trying to hide behind the whales they have already successfully hunted. If they really were sorry for their mistake they would unpack the bundles and offer refunds or partial refunds for anyone who wants to downgrade to a lower pack. But as always the thing they are sorry for is getting caught, not the hostile sales tactics themselves.

I gotta agree with this ^

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

For those that are curious, I'll leave this here.