Removal of Flawed Mods and MK1 Weapons

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

9 hours ago, rude_Olph said:

have over 1500 kills with it.
Almost 700 with MK1 Braton

Not trying to be rude here but in one single 45-60 mission ill have sometimes close to 1000 kills. What is the significance of these numbers you're posting? I just don't understand unless you were to add two zeros to each, i guess. Again, not being confrontational.

[Chewarette]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Not trying to be rude here but in one single 45-60 mission ill have sometimes close to 1000 kills. What is the significance of these numbers you're posting? I just don't understand unless you were to add two zeros to each, i guess. Again, not being confrontational.

I guess what you missed is

10 hours ago, rude_Olph said:

I know noone here cares, but we use MK1 weapons in Conclave everyday.

I'm no Conclave expert, but 700 kills with an MK1-weapon sounds good

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

What I really don't understand is why bother getting rid of content that works fine. Spending time doing that and not fixing bugs. Good job DE

[Voltage]

This is just early feedback, but the decision to remove flawed mods is great and I hope they are just entirely deleted/replaced with base mods.

The decision to remove Mk1 gear is also healthy. However, the way I would go about this is turning them into "Proto" versions of each weapon and have them linked to Warframe 1999 for lore and acquisition. Holding off on this aspect would keep them in-game and not require DE to remove Mastery, Forma, Incarnon Adapters, Catalysts, Focus Lenses, Arcane Adapters, Exilus Adapters, etc. All DE would need to do is have a PSA that these weapons would change models, be renamed, given some stat changes, and moved out of the market and into that next chapter of the game when it rolls around. In the meantime, new players can just have those options in the tutorial swapped out to their base counterparts to achieve the same impression of removing them. This also keeps them around as an easy Mastery bonus for new players for a short while.

All in all, I don't really mind losing these things, but a clear comment on how Mastery is handled and Incarnon Adapters, etc. for investment will play into their removal. I also hope none of these turn into legacy items that a subset of players can keep, but nobody can have anymore.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Voltage

[Alguien]

While I am not surprise of the removal of "MK1" concept, I do hope the actual weapons are getting some staff buffs and renamed instead of being completely removed

[DrBorris]

I'll be sad to see Mk-1 Braton go. That's been part of the game since the start, and imo it is the best feeling Braton of the bunch.

[MacKenzie-Prime]

42 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

I guess what you missed is

I'm no Conclave expert, but 700 kills with an MK1-weapon sounds good

I've gotten conclave up to rank 3 or 4.  Not maxed, but up there.  My kill count, with all weapons used combined... mid range double digits.  700 on a single weapon sounds absolutely insane to me.

And yeah... I think the other poster missed the fact it was "conclave", not regular missions.  For regular missions, my mk1 brat and paris are towards the top of my most used list, and my mk1 brat has the most kills out of my braton collection...

And when you're in missions with a bunch of bramma-bros, yeah, you might not be getting as many kills as them with the mk1, but that you ARE getting kills should say something.

[rapt0rman]

Mods are hit and miss, but they've never removed discontinued weapons from people's inventories, so that's not something that needs to be worried about. Rather, their insistence on being half-hearted when removing weapons is the reason weapons like Snipetron and Machete (which genuinely had no reason to be discontinued in the first place) are stuck in their weird event reward limbo.

Mk-1 weapons on the other hand, genuinely had no reason to ever exist in the first place, so I'm happy they're getting the axe.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

Removing the faulty mk1 and mods is fine with me, replacing them with their normal variants would be a significant power boost for the newer ones and would prevent them from wasting resources on those weapons and mods (I wasted a catalyst on a mk1-bo).

[Birdframe_Prime]

I pretty much agree. The tactic in the past, when DE removed other weapons, is that accounts that have them are able to keep them. Usually a new weapon that's the same, with improved stats (like the Snipetron Vandal) comes out so that players who heard about the weapon can see if they like it too.

But in this case, the Mk-1 variants are from a time when DE's game design and damage threshold were much, much lower. While a player can absolutely make use of these in the later game with the right mods (and incarnons on most of them), there's not really a need to have any of these actually be the training wheels for new players.

I would also appreciate it if the starter quests had an element of... hmm... randomness to them? So that players starting their new account are given a pool of good melee, secondaries and primaries that could be part of the starter quest, but the combinations mean that you don't see every new player running around with the same exact gear.

[Uan91]

It only makes too much sense as Jotaro's Power Is to stop time. 

[Gamer_Auto]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

This is just early feedback, but the decision to remove flawed mods is great and I hope they are just entirely deleted/replaced with base mods.

The decision to remove Mk1 gear is also healthy. However, the way I would go about this is turning them into "Proto" versions of each weapon and have them linked to Warframe 1999 for lore and acquisition. Holding off on this aspect would keep them in-game and not require DE to remove Mastery, Forma, Incarnon Adapters, Catalysts, Focus Lenses, Arcane Adapters, Exilus Adapters, etc. All DE would need to do is have a PSA that these weapons would change models, be renamed, given some stat changes, and moved out of the market and into that next chapter of the game when it rolls around. In the meantime, new players can just have those options in the tutorial swapped out to their base counterparts to achieve the same impression of removing them. This also keeps them around as an easy Mastery bonus for new players for a short while.

All in all, I don't really mind losing these things, but a clear comment on how Mastery is handled and Incarnon Adapters, etc. for investment will play into their removal. I also hope none of these turn into legacy items that a subset of players can keep, but nobody can have anymore.

I like where your head's at, but I gotta ask one thing: who in their right mind is putting Forma, Tomatoes, Lenses, Arcanes, & Incarnon on their MK-1 gear? By the time you have access to a steady supply of all that, you'll have far better gear available in your arsenal. Like, if that's just to flex, then it's a really dumb flex.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I pretty much agree. The tactic in the past, when DE removed other weapons, is that accounts that have them are able to keep them. Usually a new weapon that's the same, with improved stats (like the Snipetron Vandal) comes out so that players who heard about the weapon can see if they like it too.

But in this case, the Mk-1 variants are from a time when DE's game design and damage threshold were much, much lower. While a player can absolutely make use of these in the later game with the right mods (and incarnons on most of them), there's not really a need to have any of these actually be the training wheels for new players.

I would also appreciate it if the starter quests had an element of... hmm... randomness to them? So that players starting their new account are given a pool of good melee, secondaries and primaries that could be part of the starter quest, but the combinations mean that you don't see every new player running around with the same exact gear.

Again, who in their right mind would put Arcanes and Incarnons on the MK-1 gear if not to flex or meme?

In regards to that suggestion of random starting equipment: The only weapons that are MR0 and not labeled as MK-1 are Braton, Burston, Hind, Latron, NATARUK, Snipetron, Bronco, Kraken, Lato, Seer, THE DUVIRI MELEES, Skana/Dual Skana, Cronus, Fang, Jaw Sword, Kestrel, Lecta, Silva & Aegis, and all variations of Kitguns and Zaws. Stuff in bold italic caps are weapons with late-game strength.

While I can see your point about giving each newbie their own starting weapon experience, some of these are rather complex for entry-level gear (Kestrel, especially). Maybe restrict it to stuff that's common in other games, like Braton, Burston, Kraken, Lato, Skana, and Silva & Aegis.

Also, did you know that Strun is MR1, Furis and Kunai are MR2, Paris is MR3, Bo is MR4, and Furax is MR5?? That seems needlessly high for what these weapons are supposed to be. I think the MR tree needs a hefty rework.

[Zacsolo]

As someone who hasn't reached legend 3 and is struggling to find new weapons to rank up this is frustating. I just reached MR 22 and removing them probably means I'll rank back down to MR 21.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Gamer_Auto said:

I like where your head's at, but I gotta ask one thing: who in their right mind is putting Forma, Tomatoes, Lenses, Arcanes, & Incarnon on their MK-1 gear? By the time you have access to a steady supply of all that, you'll have far better gear available in your arsenal. Like, if that's just to flex, then it's a really dumb flex.

Again, who in their right mind would put Arcanes and Incarnons on the MK-1 gear if not to flex or meme?

In regards to that suggestion of random starting equipment: The only weapons that are MR0 and not labeled as MK-1 are Braton, Burston, Hind, Latron, NATARUK, Snipetron, Bronco, Kraken, Lato, Seer, THE DUVIRI MELEES, Skana/Dual Skana, Cronus, Fang, Jaw Sword, Kestrel, Lecta, Silva & Aegis, and all variations of Kitguns and Zaws. Stuff in bold italic caps are weapons with late-game strength.

While I can see your point about giving each newbie their own starting weapon experience, some of these are rather complex for entry-level gear (Kestrel, especially). Maybe restrict it to stuff that's common in other games, like Braton, Burston, Kraken, Lato, Skana, and Silva & Aegis.

Also, did you know that Strun is MR1, Furis and Kunai are MR2, Paris is MR3, Bo is MR4, and Furax is MR5?? That seems needlessly high for what these weapons are supposed to be. I think the MR tree needs a hefty rework.

Why does that matter exactly? The way these things are handled should reflect 0 downsides for any player. This is like the "remove raids" mindset. "Well the majority doesn't like them so it's acceptable". 

Like sure, I know there are an extreme minority who put investment on mk1 gear. However, there are the few that put Forma/Catalysts/Exilus on them for Conclave, completion, experimentation/testing, there's Incarnon buffs, and yes, meme builds (I'm reminded of the Mk1 loadout 6x3 video from years ago). 

That's the only reason I made this thread, brainstorming a solution where the new player experience is improved, these items are removed and not made legacy, and players who've put stuff into them are accounted for.

[vixenpixel]

My Mk1-kunai incarnon!!

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Popped into the forum to see what all I've missed.  And it looks like nothing worth coming back for, and a whole lot of stuff worth staying away from.  They're going to strip me of thousands of mastery points so they can do an early game crunch?  Laughable.  Early game crunches are a highly visible nail in a coffin for devs that don't like the engagement stats that they're seeing.

Doing stuff like this, that takes things away from experienced players in favor of catering to new players, is what typically happens when you're bleeding vets from your playerbase.  Long-time players have been giving them golden suggestions for what would actually help new players for years now, and have been ignored in favor of doing literally anything but what the people actually playing the game and taking new players into their clans have said should happen.  

[rapt0rman]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Popped into the forum to see what all I've missed.  And it looks like nothing worth coming back for, and a whole lot of stuff worth staying away from.  They're going to strip me of thousands of mastery points so they can do an early game crunch?  Laughable.  Early game crunches are a highly visible nail in a coffin for devs that don't like the engagement stats that they're seeing.

Doing stuff like this, that takes things away from experienced players in favor of catering to new players, is what typically happens when you're bleeding vets from your playerbase.  Long-time players have been giving them golden suggestions for what would actually help new players for years now, and have been ignored in favor of doing literally anything but what the people actually playing the game and taking new players into their clans have said should happen.  

Except it's more likely that the weapons will just be discontinued and your mastery isn't going anywhere. You could just wait for more information.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

5 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Except it's more likely that the weapons will just be discontinued and your mastery isn't going anywhere. You could just wait for more information.

Which is still a problem, as the OP already pointed out.  I don't need to wait for anything.  I've been around long enough to know that DE is not going to make a decision on this that will be for the good of the players.

[PollexMessier]

Yup. Fully agree with this.

[rapt0rman]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Which is still a problem, as the OP already pointed out.  I don't need to wait for anything.  I've been around long enough to know that DE is not going to make a decision on this that will be for the good of the players.

The removal of mk-1 weapons IS for the good of players, they were straight up a mistake from the beginning. There was nothing about unranked, unmodded Latos or Bratons that made them too much for a new player to handle, to warrant an even weaker version.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan dijo:

Popped into the forum to see what all I've missed.  And it looks like nothing worth coming back for, and a whole lot of stuff worth staying away from.  They're going to strip me of thousands of mastery points so they can do an early game crunch?  Laughable.  Early game crunches are a highly visible nail in a coffin for devs that don't like the engagement stats that they're seeing.

Doing stuff like this, that takes things away from experienced players in favor of catering to new players, is what typically happens when you're bleeding vets from your playerbase.  Long-time players have been giving them golden suggestions for what would actually help new players for years now, and have been ignored in favor of doing literally anything but what the people actually playing the game and taking new players into their clans have said should happen.  

Surely the veterans suffered a thousand agonies for the loss of mk1 weapons or 21k mastery points.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Maybe this means they can squish the stats of lower level enemies upwards so there can be more of a fight in lower-level content for builds that sit there

I like the “Pap pap pap” fire rate of the Mk-1 Braton, but it was a little weird getting Mk-1 weapons that were clearly meant to be treated like loaners at a time when I thought it was the weapon that made the most difference and I was keeping an eye out for a level system that didn’t manifest. Maybe now new players will be a little more understanding about the idea of “The game’s designed to let you keep using a thing you like and invested in” when they don’t have Mk-1 stuff muddying the waters of understanding

[Monolake]

Flawed mods and mk1 weapons are just stepping stones for fresh players - they are necessary.
This game is about progress, getting things gradually is more fun. People complaining about them dont understand how games work at all or never played rpgs.

Simply removing Flawed mods would be hurting new players. Replacing them with full versions of mods would be robbing players of progress. Plus Flawed mods are good for cheap builds - which is needed for new players who dont have mod capacity.
What should be done instead is balancing Flawed mods to have more significant bonus (at least some really need it) . The cost of ranking them up could be reduced to 'common' level too (but that actually doesn't matter as its already low enough for any new player to easily afford)

MK1 weapons are same stepping stone and they are perfectly fine for the low level fresh players are facing.   Its just too unclrear for new players how to easily upgrade - they dont know they could buy better weapons right away for credits (or make kitguns in day1 with only 1hr craft time!).
The only reason to replace MK1s with better weapons so trim some bloat from the already bloated game. But still - new players just need more hand-holding and guidance to know how to mod and upgrade

Edited August 28, 2023 by Monolake

[DrivaMain]

8 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

The removal of mk-1 weapons IS for the good of players, they were straight up a mistake from the beginning. There was nothing about unranked, unmodded Latos or Bratons that made them too much for a new player to handle, to warrant an even weaker version.

Don't waste your time with that poster. They will never be satisfied with anything in this game. They just post rants after rants after rants everytime there is a content drop.

DE is not that stupid to not make up for the missing MR points. Anything that is not the founder's pack and the "problematic" heirloom collection will never be out of reach for the players, new and old.

[--UMBRA--MauVasconcellos]

Hello.

I understand DE is about to remove the old "MK-1" weapons from circulation sometime later this year, but, may I add a suggestion? Let the players keep THEIR MK-1 weapons at least. Remove the option of acquiring them from the rotation table / market, sure, but do not simply go over our inventary and delete what is already ours. Cause that would be unfair and mean, to say the least. Some of us WF players are here for 10 years, and keeping small collectibles like these is part of the whole fun inside your game.

Thanks for your consideration.