PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[prodi1600]

8 minutes ago, LogmantheLogjam said:

This solution seriously misses the mark. The main issue I and many other people have had with these bundles is that they unnecessarily bundle together items that many people just dont want. I dont care about regal aya, i dont care about mag. Adding more plat to these bundles doesnt change the fact that its at least $70 to get the cosmetics that people actually care about. We need lower cost versions of these bundles. Ideally we should be able to just buy the skins we want but at the bare minimum, we need a bundle without regal aya.

Yeahh looks like they really are pushing to keep the pricing up, I guess if the uproar continues they will throw more platinum at it. 

[ShogunGunshow]

4 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Oh, so DE- as a whole- is doubling down on this path, huh?

Look, the extra Platinum was ONE facet of this ticking time bomb of a disaster.
"10 year supporter" is kinda a joke when just about any generic big-spender whale can waltz in on DAY 1 to spend a bunch of money and never show up again.
... but because they bought into some FOMO bundle? They're considered a support in the same way Founders are?

I get it. You want the prestige factor. The whole glory of it.
It's a skin though. A skin for two specific Warframes no less.
Of which STILL cost as much as a full retail game.

Two skins that will cease to exist at the end of the year for the purpose of... what? Hollow vanity?
Yes, people bought these skins with the idea of it being lost to time, I can assure many would want it to come back another time.

Honestly? I'd avoid buying the pack simply because of how disrespectful to the players it seems.
How else are we supposed to see bloody tides but an omen for strife to come?
 

And yet the only reason they're "unforgettable" now is because their price is bloated and it's locked behind an ever shortening timer.
A reminder that after 10 years of a game's existence, DE is working towards throwing away one of it's founding principles.
... in favor of money. Like every other moneybag-muncher.

The price is one thing.
The timer is just unnecessary.

Lessons? By golly, the term "lessons" had me hopeful that you learned that limiting a bundle like this behind FOMO was a bad idea, DE.
Yet "lessons" are only meaningful when it's shown. All you've shown is that you're constantly going to double-down on short-sighted decisions that cost you greatly.
And now? Not only did you show you've learned nothing, you've shown that you actively go against what you've learned before?

Remember how Deluxe Skins used to be time locked as well? Than you brought them back.
Remember how you removed the Kavat Gene-Code "Lottery farmers"? How we respected your decision to stay humble?
Remember how we made a similar fuss over Prime Resurgence having no platinum? That was because the deal was objectively worse.
Remember how you promised that Excalibur Prime would be the only situation where this time-limited nonsense would happen? Simply because of the circumstance behind it?

I can never say I "supported" the idea of the Supporter Packs. (wordplay aside)
Items that go away forever? Sent to oblivion because a player didn't arrive in an abstract period of time-- regardless if they even HEARD about the game?
Why, that sounds like a horrible idea! Horrible ideas are often the double-edged sword Warframe players have to endure.
For every section the game is good, there's at least 2 terrible things holding it back.

Recent example? Check your very own Echoes of Duviri update.
More things in Circuit? Would be a shame if there was a incredibly buggy and obnoxious boss gating it constantly.
Kullervo being introduced? Sure, let's make even more resources for players to constantly hunt down by reloading the area in solo play.
Plenty of surface-level examples. I could go further in depth if you want, we have a list so long I could smack someone with it and land an Impact Status.

Furthermore, our concern- AS A COMMUNITY- is not that the price isn't just that it had objectively poor value.
It was these bundles ARE going to leak into every facet of the game.
People like me knew this half-baked solution would happen and I can only say it's beyond disappointing.
It's on me for thinking- even for a second- that our pleas for change would actually make a dent.
It's a 10 Year anniversary. What better time to change gears and go full throttle on money-making, hm?

[Drachnyn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb [DE]Megan:

Greetings, Tenno!

We’re back in action after TennoCon 2023 - and our number one priority is addressing the community’s reaction to the Heirloom Collection.

We missed the mark here and understand the feedback we're receiving because of it. After taking some time to review and evaluate our options based on the concerns, we have opted to increase the Platinum amounts in all Heirloom Packs. 

 

The Feedback we can address for the current Heirloom Collection:

“The value of the Packs does not justify the price point.”

 

Our Change to Address:

We are increasing Platinum to all Heirloom Packs to bring them alongside Prime Access standards:

• Increase Platinum in Risen Pack: 400 to 800
• Add Platinum in Celestial Pack: 800
• Increase Platinum in Zenith Pack: 600 to 2100

*The Platinum will be delivered via in-game Inbox to accounts that have already purchased the respective Packs. We are coordinating our efforts now to arrange the Inbox send, and Hotfix required. We will signal when the Inbox has been delivered on all Platforms.

 

Similar to how Regal Aya bundles launched with no Platinum and were met with strong feedback, we agree Heirloom Packs need more value to justify their status.  

This decision was made to address the feedback and maintain the expectations we had set for players upon the release of the Heirlooms (time exclusivity and Pack contents). In doing so, we are able to increase the value of pack contents in a way that does not remove any value for Tenno who have bought them. We do not feel it would be fair to those who purchased an Heirloom Collection already with the understanding that they were time-limited to now remove that element. Those who have purchased simply get more, and ultimately they are now a good Platinum deal with exclusive Cosmetics.

Heirloom Collections are intended to be unforgettable (for the right reasons) - we are also discussing ways we can better preserve that feeling of legacy, quality, and prestige for future Heirloom Collections (if we make more).

We truly appreciate your feedback and concerns and recognize the responsibility we have in ensuring that any new directions we take with cosmetic exclusives are done with much more careful consideration. The Heirlooms were designed with the celebratory nature of this year's TennoCon and 10-year anniversary, and it's on us to ensure that you, as a player, feel that we are upholding years of lessons learned when it comes to selling cosmetic exclusives. If we continue with this series, we are dedicated to ensuring all future Heirloom Collection releases have more purchase flexibility and reflect all feedback we received during this launch.

 

Thank you, Tenno!

This doesnt address the pack being unnecessarily bloated for people who have no need for regal aya (or plat for that matter) and instead want just the skins. This is still a scummy (and frustratingly common business practice in MTX economies). DE is not even addressing this point really. DE should remove the expiration date of the pack and add purchase options for just the skins. DE shouldnt get to hide behind the whales they have already successfully hunted. This is not a sufficient apology. If someone wants a refund it would only be fair that DE takes the loss on business decisions like that.

There will be nothing learned from this "apology". Plat has no real value for DE, they give it out like candy to appease the players but this isnt at a loss for them. Hostile sales practices like this need to be punished with real losses.

[Commander]

I have a very high opinion of DE compared to other studios and I can tell you guys love your game. Wish I couldve made it to Tennocon to be there for the 10 years

I think it would be best to consider not making time-limited things in the future to avoid this specific scenario (obviously I may not have the full picture here), but for all the complaining I can understand that this was really the only fair way to approach the situation. There's alot of people out there who really don't care about time or resource investment and considering the circumstances or fairness. I personally wouldnt appreciate it if I had the gumption to pay 80$ for something only for the price of it to come down because people complained about it. Considering the items in the pack, I'd probably mostly be interested in the skins, and more than likely only an individual one, which is something to consider too but I get that the objective here was to make money. (Probably another reason making something infinitely reproducable is probably better off not being time-limited at all.) So if I paid 80$, specifically because I wanted the skin which I assumed would be "bundle only" and then everyone else just kinda got their way, I'd feel bad too. It's a bit of a lose/lose.

 

Maybe Id be more passionate about it if I played Frost or Mag. Its clear people are mad, I would just feel really awful if that anger hurt anyone's spirits. It wasnt a great decision, and maybe didnt even come from you guys specifically but try not to take the harsh critcism to heart; you guys are the best.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Commander

[PublikDomain]

Just now, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Aww... This genuinely makes me very VERY sad. For a multitude of reasons, one being that DE put you in such a position you felt you should do this. Not that my opinion counts for anything but kudos to you for standing so firm.

Thanks, my god I want that stupid book so bad. I hate cancelling my order.

[mrgudveseli]

47 minutes ago, Ripw0lf said:

True words from this person. I don't want warframe to become like bungie, greedy through the bones. I think they can make a better solution to satisfy everyone, like making that you can buy the skins and the pallets color separated and that crown or whatever that was separated as well + leave the 90$ or whatever the price was alone but make the skins separated and the crown and the other one as well and everyone will be happy.   

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

You know that Bungie monetizes story content, gear and cosmetics, right? And DE charges only for some cosmetics. Being a drama queen here, eh?

The moment DE tries to charge for money-exclusive weapons or frames, my pitchfork will be raised first. Right now, i find all the whiney posts everywhere reeking of entitlement. It's honestly disgusting.

[Vortex]

4 minutes ago, PazuulLoveMe said:

It obvious, that DE devs can't read.

The bundle is cheap already, its not meant to be bought with ducats or credits, pay the price or skip, simple as that.

The solution is valid, there's nothing to do about.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Vortex

[innergnat]

Nah..

[(PSN)TEAINSHENNON]

1 minute ago, mrgudveseli said:

You know that Bungie monetizes story content, gear and cosmetics, right? And DE charges only for some cosmetics. Being a drama queen here, eh?

The moment DE tries to charge for money-exclusive weapons or frames, my pitchfork will be raised first. Right now, i find all the whiney posts everywhere reeking of entitlement. It's honestly disgusting.

Clearly you don't know how tencent operates this is just a toe in the water wait till server payments,dlc payments come

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Thank you! I didn't feel it was warranted but it's much appreciated. :)

[Cerikus]

Just now, (PSN)TEAINSHENNON said:

Players aren't "sensitive" they are sick of being taken for a ride by de,tencent

LMAO. I hate this argument so much. Once someone uses the tencent argument they completely lose any credibility in my eyes. 

The Tencent acquisition of Leyou didn't change a thing. Warframe had plenty of monetization scandals in the past long before the acquisition.
Using this argument just makes you look completely silly.

Also you've dogded my point entirely. 

PoE does a thing. PoE players are cool.
Warframe does literally the same thing. Warframe players are screaming.

Explain.

[(PSN)jcrm007]

When will we be reimbursed with platinum? 

[GRox_98]

.

Edited September 28, 2023 by GRox_98

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 1 hora, [DE]Megan dijo:

Our Change to Address:

We are increasing Platinum to all Heirloom Packs to bring them alongside Prime Access standards

This is a joke, right? 


Ive been playing Warframe for 10 years

Ive Played and Grinded every corner of this Game I completed all Achievements and Im to date with all Content
I got all Kuva and Tenet Weapons (what a pain), every Prime Warframe, I unlocked every Subsumed Ability, Ive Min Maxed
every Build and perfected my Set-Up for every Type of Mission. Ive watched every Devstream, every Tennocon I got in Love
with the Lotus in The Second Dream, my Heart crushed by The Sacrifice and my Mind blown by The New War and The Duviri Paradox

Ive engaged with this magnificent and wholesome Community, helping Newbies get strong, giving away Stuff, citing the Wiki
like its Sacred texts Convincing my Friends to Play, creating my own Clan and Ive posted my Ideas and Suggestions on this
Forums. Some of which were addressed and implemented (Gara Kaleida keeping her Glass Armor and the Back Holster for Glaives a-la TRON? That was me)

I spent LOTS of Money, Catalysts, Forma, Slots, Decorations I have (almost) every Deluxe Skin, I bought 2 Prime Access,4 Prime Accessories
and a TON of Tennogen stuff. Ive always been glad to Support this Game because it has the best F2P Model ever made and DE
puts his F2P Players first, or at least they used to... I was ready to Support Warframe for 10 more years

However this is a sort of farewell, I will come back to play every Quest because I just need to know more
about this Mind-blowing Lore DE is crafting, but I will not spend a single dime more because for the celebration
of 10 years we got (for the first time ever) Two Deluxe Skins locked behind a Paywall and FOMO, I understand DE needs to
make Money and Ive been always glad to help out because I knew F2P Players were able to participate in the True Endgame (FashionFrame)
regardless if they could spend Money or not. But it seems these Players are not DE's priority anymore and I wouldnt be at Peace with myself
if I supported these new Predatory Monetization Tactics, I just cant...

If DE makes the Frost and Mag Deluxe Skins available for Plat I will open my Wallet again (make them 550 Platinum each for all I care, but do it),
and I will be there to give DE my Money and keep engaging with Warframe like Ive been doing for the last 10 years

But if not then my Support ends right now effective immediately and I will pour my Passion, Time and Money on a different Game

I wish I could say DE is the same studio that has always been but that is clearly not the case,
They are changing and I dont like the path they are taking, I just cant get behind this....

Thanks for 10 Years of Warframe, to DE and the Community

Peace and Love Tenno, Have a Great Day 🤗

[xMarvin732]

2 minutes ago, Vortex said:

The bundle is cheap already, its not meant to be bought with ducats or credits, pay the price or skip, simple as that.

Neither with Plat?

[Gladehart]

1 minute ago, Commander said:

I have a very high opinion of DE compared to other studios and I can tell you guys love your game. Wish I couldve made it to Tennocon to be there for the 10 years

I think it would be best to consider not making time-limited things in the future to avoid this specific scenario (obviously I may not have the full picture here), but for all the complaining I can understand that this was really the only fair way to approach the situation. There's alot of people out there who really don't care about time or resource investment and considering the circumstances or fairness. I personally wouldnt appreciate it if I had the gumption to pay 80$ for something only for the price of it to come down because people complained about it. Considering the items in the pack, I'd probably mostly be interested in the skins, and more than likely only an individual one, which is something to consider too but I get that the objective here was to make money. (Probably another reason making something infinitely reproducable is probably better off not being time-limited at all.)

 

Maybe Id be more passionate about it if I played Frost or Mag. Its clear people are mad, I would just feel really awful if that anger hurt anyone's spirits. It wasnt an great decision and maybe didnt even come from you guys specifically but try not to take the harsh critcism to heart; you guys are the best.

This is also a true statement. Megan and such are the ones announcing it, but not the ones deciding it. If anything, I kinda feel bad for Megan currently since this is her post and well... All of THIS is happening in it. I also hope that the people who didn't even make the decision won't take any of this to heart or insulting. Especially from people using harsh language against them.

[Vortex]

8 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Furthermore, our concern- AS A COMMUNITY- is not that the price isn't just that it had objectively poor value.

Don't put me on "your community" and you don't talk about our concern, we value their job as everyone here wish to be valued on their own job, they change the bundle to please you so or you pick it or leave, no one is forcing you to buy it.

[(PSN)TEAINSHENNON]

1 minute ago, Cerikus said:

LMAO. I hate this argument so much. Once someone uses the tencent argument they completely lose any credibility in my eyes. 

The Tencent acquisition of Leyou didn't change a thing. Warframe had plenty of monetization scandals in the past long before the acquisition.
Using this argument just makes you look completely silly.

Also you've dogded my point entirely. 

PoE does a thing. PoE players are cool.
Warframe does literally the same thing. Warframe players are screaming.

Explain.

Clearly can't read as I stated both are at fault not 1 or the other but k

[(PSN)Votrae]

This pointedly ignores the most common feedback item: sell it for Platinum. Y'know, that premium* currency you already sold us. In reducing its buying power you're reducing value for all players currently holding ..bought Platinum. So you're adding more? Why would I want more devalued premium currency? Ever been to Venezuela?  

 

Ironically, by omitting this concerted feedback point from 'lessons learned', you're teaching us to distrust future decisions in this vein.

 

Selling these surprise 'celebratory' packs ..directly on top of a 'celebratory' pack you already sold us... feels so gross. With the exception of ascendant lighting techniques, its truly soured the vibe of exciting Tennocon news 👎

[Gladehart]

Just now, Vortex said:

Don't put me on "your community" and you don't talk about our concern, we value their job as everyone here wish to be valued on their own job, they change the bundle to please you so or you pick it or leave, no one is forcing you to buy it.

Me personally, I was already planning to buy it. But now that it's got more plat in it and is practically the same price as said plat pack PLUS skins, signa and the icon? Yeah, I have 0 issue getting it.

[DeadS1lence]

Why making the hard decisions to address the actual complaints when they can simply sweep it under the rug with some plat? Worked last time when Prime Resurgence and Regal Aya came around. Seems like this is the only lesson they have learned from back then.

[(PSN)BabyBoi6769]

While this change is meaningful and ultimately not what the players want, I still say that the skins should be separated and thus priced appropriately.  The influence of Tencent is all over this skin bundle and it's disgusting.  Tencent must go.  

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)TEAINSHENNON said:

Clearly can't read as I stated both are at fault not 1 or the other but k

That would be very nice, but you didn't stated that nowhere in this thread :))))

Feel free to quote your post, where you state that.

[3mptylord]

I don't mind the prices. It's cheaper than Prime Access and with the Regal Aya you're basically selling Prime Frost and Prime Mag with these bundles. I'm glad the bundles now look better compared to Platinum prices - but I never thought the value of the packs was super-unreasonable before (although I think I value Regal Aya more than your average player since I missed a lot of Prime Accesses).

I don't even mind the Limited Edition - especially since it's available until 2024. Plenty of time to decide if you want it. Limited Edition skins are a damn sight better than Limited Edition Primes - so I definitely prefer this to releasing a new Excalibur Prime for the 10 Years Founder Pack. I concede that you could just make the Accolade retire from the store rather than the entire bundle - it's only the "I was here in 2023" stamp that needs to be limited edition. You could add the skins to the Marketplace and the Signas to Prime Resurgence when the Bundle Sale ends. 

For me: it's the lack of separate Frost and Mag Bundles that bother me. The current Everything and EverythingPlus options just feel redundant. There's also the noticeable lack of an Accessories pack that I think a lot of players would appreciate. 

I created this mock-up initially with the Accolade Bundle boosted to 500 Platinum (a fairer amount compared to the price of Platinum) - but if you're boosting it to 1000, I'll gladly update my image accordingly. The £32.99 bundles are based on the Prime Access prices - so while I've removed the £45.99-tier, I suspect there'd be an increase in £32.99 sales to match the previous projected income. £32.99 for Heirloom Frost plus currency for Frost Prime that I don't have to spend on Frost Prime versus £32.99 for Wisp Prime. The cost of the Everything Bundle is essentially a small discount on buying both skins separately.

I'm aware there'll be a lot of players who'll still ask for Skins-without-Accolade-Bundle to save on the £19.99 - but you're a free-to-play game, so I find it hard to justify complaints about you monetizing cosmetics. Plus - the 10 Year Accolade is the point of this event. Just add them to the Marketplace in January without any of the extras as I proposed above?

Edited August 30, 2023 by 3mptylord

[Salinero]

Are you serious...

Lemme guess it's hard to allocate resources to make a 4th pack, that contains only the skins with signas?

Watch out DE your inner Bungie is showing off.