The Archon Damage Attenuation changes worry me

[Xamuswing]

There's no getting around that the Felarx and Kuva Hek are basically the only weapons you can use for Archons atm, but one of the things I like about using them is that an Archon Hunt doesn't take longer than 15 minutes if I really need it to. This is helpful for me since I work full time and don't have as much free time as I'd like to play games like Warframe that are so grind happy as some other players that basically dedicate 60+ hours a week to this game. I know that the average player usually has to take like an hour to finish a full hunt, even with a full squad, but I simply don't have that kind of luxury every week. The one-shot builds are kinda necessary if I wanna get all the content I want done that week, and unless other weekly systems like Circuit or Nightwave are made significantly less tedious, I don't see this as a net positive.

Edit: A few people are confused, when I say an Archon Hunt takes 15 minutes, I'm referring to missions 1 and 2 in the hunt as well, not just the last one. Putting this in bold text bcus people can't read.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Xamuswing

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Xamuswing said:

There's no getting around that the Felarx and Kuva Hek are basically the only weapons you can use for Archons atm, but one of the things I like about using them is that an Archon Hunt doesn't take longer than 15 minutes if I really need it to. This is helpful for me since I work full time and don't have as much free time as I'd like to play games like Warframe that are so grind happy as some other players that basically dedicate 60+ hours a week to this game. I know that the average player usually has to take like an hour to finish a full hunt, even with a full squad, but I simply don't have that kind of luxury every week. The one-shot builds are kinda necessary if I wanna get all the content I want done that week, and unless other weekly systems like Circuit or Nightwave are made significantly less tedious, I don't see this as a net positive.

Phenmor, laetum and kuva zarr mess up archons too, and you raised a great point the game is definitely a content sink they are changing nightwave bounties to be less tedious, but the circuit really needs to be looked at the most annoying part is after wave 7 the exp you gain to level up your progression is nerfed so you gain less who genuinely thought that was good lol.

[RichardKam]

14分钟前 , Xamuswing 说:

There's no getting around that the Felarx and Kuva Hek are basically the only weapons you can use for Archons atm

MK-I Paris would like have a word with you.

引用

 

 

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

That's a lovely 83% Roar buff. 

16 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

MK-I Paris would like have a word with you.

 

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I'm personally taking a wait and see approach. 

I also disagree that Kuva Hek and Felarx are the only options currently. There are a few weapons that are slower, but definitely faster than 15 minutes, and 10 minutes. I get your point though and generally agree with them being most efficient, hence why I myself use the Kuva Hek for Archons. The reason I am being a bit particular, is because you don't really want to exaggerate too much, because the upcoming changes, may overall serve efficiency. Like if the change is so, that a Kuva Hek Alt fire now takes 20 shots... thats one thing, but if it takes 3 shots? Thats still killing an Archon in less than a minute. If it can make other weapons more competitive and effective at sub 5 minute encounters (just talking about killing the Archon in that phase, not the whole mission), then I think thats good, and more inline with what most people want. 

People like yourself and I, will still be doing very fast Archon hunts. I mean, I could be wrong, sure, but I don't have enough details to know if thats the case. The goal seems to make other weapons much more effective, and certain weapons, a little bit less effective, but not much less effective. I think hands on may alleviate worries (or conversely may give rise to issues, but eh... remember how a bunch of people were getting worried about their 40 Forma MK1 Braton being removed, plus other MK weapons removed etc? Then we find out thats not what is happening? Worrying is natural and I can see why one might, but also often its not until we get hands on that we can actually see if it was worth worrying about). 

[0_The_F00l]

I stopped using felarx quite some time ago , 

I still manage in under 20 minutes with my strun (incarnon with a lot of multishot) and the dual toxocyst (having near infinite ammo helps) and my lavos , solo.

I don't enjoy the kuva hek as much, too much downtime for me.

But i do still hate damage attenuation , I hope whatever changes they make us better than what we have.

[ReddyDisco]

Right now i can complete the archon hunt in around 5min solo, though now it's gotten rather boring one shotting them with kuva hek. In the devstream they said slow high damage weapons will feel less flaccid against archons after changes, i'm looking forward to trying that.

[(PSN)Unstar]

14 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

There's no getting around that the Felarx and Kuva Hek are basically the only weapons you can use for Archons atm

With respect, I think part of your distress might come from the fact that you're misinformed.  Weapons like the Phenmor and the Laetum also kill the Archons at a very reasonable rate, just not in a single shot.

 

14 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

but one of the things I like about using them is that an Archon Hunt doesn't take longer than 15 minutes if I really need it to.

You don't need 1-shot weapons to get in and out in 15 minutes.  You just need a weapon that doesn't do no damage, which currently means something like the Phenmor or Laetum.

 

14 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

The one-shot builds are kinda necessary if I wanna get all the content I want done that week, and unless other weekly systems like Circuit or Nightwave are made significantly less tedious, I don't see this as a net positive.

Ultimately it's your life and your call, but it sounds like you've accidentally stumbled into making Warframe your second job.  You're doing Circuit and Nightwave on a weekly basis but you find them "tedious".  You feel like you don't have the bandwidth to play the game unless it's cheesed so fast that you're all but skipping the content.  Obviously I don't know you or your life, but your framing of this issue sounds a bit concerning.

I'd recommend taking a step back and doing some soul-searching about why you play Warframe in the first place.  You've got a bunch of weekly tasks that you want to get done, and that's cool, easy to respect.  But if you can't get them done, that's fine.  Warframe is a game.  What you don't get done now you can get done later.  Those Circuit rewards will keep rotating forever.  Every reward from Nightwave will come back later down the road.  You've got the rest of your life to accumulate Archon Shards.  It can all wait.

And perhaps most importantly, I hope that when you're spending your very limited free time on Warframe that you're actually having fun, and not simply completing tasks that you feel compelled to complete.  So maybe ask yourself if you're really following your bliss.  Maybe even take a break from the game to reset your brain.  All your call of course, but I encourage you to think about it, because even though I don't know you I want you to be happy.

Other pro-tips:

• Each week, your second Incarnon Adapter takes twice as long to earn as the first.  So consider just getting one Incarnon Adapter each week to make more efficient use of your time.
• The overwhelming majority of Nightwave points are extra; if you do even 20% of the Nightwave challenges, you will get all of the rewards long before the season ends.  So just do the challenges that are easy and chill.  If you feel that Nightwave is tedious, it's because you're wasting your time doing more challenges than are remotely necessary.

Edited September 29, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
better phrasing regarding Nightwave

[ShogunGunshow]

Unless you're somehow queueing into full parties of people deliberately doing things badly I don't see how it even takes you 15 minutes.

Also you NEED the one-shot builds to get the content done in a week? When the final hunt usually takes up the least amount of time? Suuure.

Yeah. Sorry. That ten or fifteen minutes a week somehow being the point where things are incompletable for you doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer poorly thought-out mechanics forever.

[Pizzarugi]

From what I gathered from the devstream, it sounds like they're nerfing damage attenuation. I'm not too sure by how much, but DE is aware that some fights can take upwards of 30 minutes and I got the impression they want to cut that down. By how much? I don't know, but either way, it sounds promising to me.

I use Phenmor (or Furis incarnon for Boreal to deal with those damn canister sentients), and some archon fights feel like they take forever.

[SneakyErvin]

By the sounds of it and by the looks of it in the workshop they are rebalancing it all so that you no longer will have the slow runs. Sure it will affect the 1HK weapons aswell but it will bring things to a more normalized less exploited point where more weapons are viable.

If it turns out like planned is another question though.

[Skoomaseller]

i think we'll be ok

the bigger problem is really how boring the bossfights are. I can bring any frame, not just revenant mind you, it'll still feel really boring. health/DR/DA doesn't matter, the boss phases aren't really engaging.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

i think we'll be ok

the bigger problem is really how boring the bossfights are. I can bring any frame, not just revenant mind you, it'll still feel really boring. health/DR/DA doesn't matter, the boss phases aren't really engaging.

Agreed. For me it is the extra mechanics in them that are annoying. Clones, immunity phases in odd positions on the map, jumping around etc. while none of it adds any value or engagement to the fight, just more time spent before it is over. I wouldnt mind if they were moving alot, if it ment we could attack them at the same time as we avoid actually dangerous attacks or similar.

[(PSN)Zbeatza]

Never looked at time hunting the archon itself, the longest missions is the defense or interception, maybe excavators dont remember if they are present, those are the worst for public matching, meanwhile the archon hunt ends pretty quickly, unless is boreal, i hate those glowy sentiens with canisters, those bottles are hard to destroy and they move a lot, that's why i use zenurik.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Zbeatza said:

i hate those glowy sentiens with canisters, those bottles are hard to destroy and they move a lot, that's why i use zenurik.

 

You might know this already, and just not opt for it, but if you weren't aware, Stropha is very effective against them. A few other weapons as well (Atomos is decent), but I can't remember them all right now. Can make that section a breeze. 

[(PSN)Zbeatza]

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

You might know this already, and just not opt for it, but if you weren't aware, Stropha is very effective against them. A few other weapons as well (Atomos is decent), but I can't remember them all right now. Can make that section a breeze. 

I used kuva nukor and i couldn't tell if it works, someone else was using the 7 prism wich seems to be the best option.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

9 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

The one-shot builds are kinda necessary if I wanna get all the content I want done that week, and unless other weekly systems like Circuit or Nightwave are made significantly less tedious, I don't see this as a net positive.

that's all well and good, but you are a VERY niche case here: if DE always catered to people who don't have enough time, we'd either have monetization up to our eyeballs or the game simply wouldn't exist anymore.

sounds to me like Archons will be easier, which is totally fine by me: at this point I only care about the showdowns missions and the shards they offer anyway. 

[Numerounius]

For me, it was a necessary change after a year + of nothing being done about it. Part of the appeal of Warframe is using the time to craft builds to take down various content rather than following the best builds in the business to get it done in 5 minutes. But the damage attenuation in place completely destroys any build of your own design vs. Archons and forces you into using one of the one-shot builds to be effective.

Yes, this will make archons take longer if you were using one of these one-shot strats but overall I think it should be a great net positive if it means crafted bossing builds can compete vs. a high damage output kuva Hek. However, I will still remain cautious since there are some other downsides to the mechanic, mainly the damage attenuation was severely harsh and even if that was lifted tenfold it could still be way too easy to reach the damage gates and forcing the fight to only take 2 minutes less which would still be way too long of a slog.

[GPrime96]

17 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

There's no getting around that the Felarx and Kuva Hek are basically the only weapons you can use for Archons atm, but one of the things I like about using them is that an Archon Hunt doesn't take longer than 15 minutes if I really need it to. This is helpful for me since I work full time and don't have as much free time as I'd like to play games like Warframe that are so grind happy as some other players that basically dedicate 60+ hours a week to this game. I know that the average player usually has to take like an hour to finish a full hunt, even with a full squad, but I simply don't have that kind of luxury every week. The one-shot builds are kinda necessary if I wanna get all the content I want done that week, and unless other weekly systems like Circuit or Nightwave are made significantly less tedious, I don't see this as a net positive.

Edit: A few people are confused, when I say an Archon Hunt takes 15 minutes, I'm referring to missions 1 and 2 in the hunt as well, not just the last one. Putting this in bold text bcus people can't read.

As nice as using Xata’s + Felarx and reaching top damage 98% of the time against a Archon, having their Damage Attenuation screwed up because of teammates using something like Phenmor, Laetum, or something even more off meta is nothing but a terrible feeling. With the change, i don’t have to worry about my teammates screwing up the fight due to Damage Attenuation making high fire rate, low damage or hard hitting, very low multishot weapons a waste of time.

Edit: Seriously, i hope it cause less of me carrying the team.

Edited September 29, 2023 by GPrime96

[taiiat]

i can appreciate, but we'll see how it goes. the hope is for that the other Game Mechanics aren't so ridiculously nerfed as they are now so that there's more useful Gear options that can complete the content competently rather than hoping the Enemy dies of boredom before you do.
all we can do is just wait and see, though. 

they could really just back off the Mechanics nerfing a couple orders of magnitude and change the unnerfed things to be in line, and that should reach a comfortable area where you can complete the Encounter in like 10min as long as you have good Equipment and know how to use it. if it would feel like, say, how the Archons were during the Quest, but maybe around half the time per Phase, that would have a good feeling of being able to engage with the Enemy but not having to watch Paint dry.

 

16 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

With respect, I think part of your distress might come from the fact that you're misinformed.  Weapons like the Phenmor and the Laetum also kill the Archons at a very reasonable rate, just not in a single shot.

for now, but because of extra bonuses which aren't accounted for, which is both the problem and solution with Archons as it is. that almost all of the Game Mechanics are nerfed so much that the few left are the only useful choices.

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Zbeatza said:

I used kuva nukor and i couldn't tell if it works, someone else was using the 7 prism wich seems to be the best option.

Easiest method to handle those adds is by using Felarx for the mission.

Shooting Boreal charges up the incarnon form, so incase bridbrains doesnt get instagibbed by the Felarx you can swap to the Felarx incarnon mode for canister popping, which makes it really easy since it works like Arca Plasmor and other wide projectile punch through weapons.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Easiest method to handle those adds is by using Felarx for the mission.

Shooting Boreal charges up the incarnon form, so incase bridbrains doesnt get instagibbed by the Felarx you can swap to the Felarx incarnon mode for canister popping, which makes it really easy since it works like Arca Plasmor and other wide projectile punch through weapons.

I find the Lex Prime Incarnon is the best for taking these enemies out....they just absolutely melt with a Lex Prime Incarnon 

[Void2258]

On 2023-09-28 at 10:43 PM, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

the circuit really needs to be looked at the most annoying part is after wave 7 the exp you gain to level up your progression is nerfed so you gain less who genuinely thought that was good lol.

They need to fix the longstanding visual bug where the once daily 50xop bonus appears (but done not count) every time you get to stage 4 and for every stage thereafter, thus making it impossible to track progress accurately during runs.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

5 minutes ago, Void2258 said:

They need to fix the longstanding visual bug where the once daily 50xop bonus appears (but done not count) every time you get to stage 4 and for every stage thereafter, thus making it impossible to track progress accurately during runs.

Yes agreed 100%, also I don’t know

if it just me but it’s happened a lot to me where I can’t use transference , abilities, shoot or use melee attacks and my warframe runs backwards you literally have to die res yourself to reset it.

Edited September 30, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Pizzarugi]

On 2023-09-29 at 6:17 AM, (PSN)Zbeatza said:

I used kuva nukor and i couldn't tell if it works, someone else was using the 7 prism wich seems to be the best option.

Furis incarnon form is terrific for those enemies, the massive wide beam makes it a great deal easier to hit them. It's functionally like the 7 prism, but deals massive damage.