Vaml77 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 I watched the last devstream and they mentioned a possible nerf to his resource buff... Why take that action? Why not improve the power of other pets and give better reasons to use them? Or would another solution be to share this kavat buff with all the other pets? Today the kavat is the best and most used pet due to its critical chance and resource buff... I don't think it's fair to do that to it! There are other pets that no one uses like kavat adarza that doesn't buff the player who uses it and only the other players in the match... which is unfair in my opinion. There is no motivation whatsoever to use this adarza, helminth, kubrows and other types of pet. The "solution" of nerfing something that is useful is not a good practice or philosophy... there is a lack of depth in this discussion! My humble proposal would be to make this resource buff something common to all pets and the critical chance buff would be something optional that would come from the helminth. Today the most wronged pet is the adarza and the kubrow and some types infested with deimos. Or turn these usable resource and critical chance buffs into mods to be used on pets? If they really want to democratize the use of pets and forcing players to use other things is not the ideal path....the idea of nerfing the kavat's resource buffs will only create discontent in the warframe community. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 The issue is that charm is just way too useful. It really doesn't matter how much they buff anything else. Smeeta's ability is "Reduce the grind" And nothing else can ever compete with that. That said, the only way I find nerfing this to be acceptable, is if they basically just implement charm, or an averaged out version of it, across the entire game. Work out what the average uptime is for Charm's affinity and resource buffs are with max pet ability duration (and accounting for stacked instances of the buff) and raise the overall affinity and resource gain across the entire game by the average percentage charm should be raising those by based on it's uptime. Or have it so resources and affinity gain randomly spike by the amount of charms buff, roughly as often as it would be active. But I prefer the more consistent option over rng. OR lower the resource cost of everything and required affinity to level things up comparatively. If they don't do any of those, they're making the grind across the entire game worse, and that's unacceptable. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myscho Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Charm is overused and we know what they do with that 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 37 minutes ago, Vaml77 said: I watched the last devstream and they mentioned a possible nerf to his resource buff... Why take that action? Why not improve the power of other pets and give better reasons to use them? Or would another solution be to share this kavat buff with all the other pets? Today the kavat is the best and most used pet due to its critical chance and resource buff... I don't think it's fair to do that to it! There are other pets that no one uses like kavat adarza that doesn't buff the player who uses it and only the other players in the match... which is unfair in my opinion. There is no motivation whatsoever to use this adarza, helminth, kubrows and other types of pet. The "solution" of nerfing something that is useful is not a good practice or philosophy... there is a lack of depth in this discussion! My humble proposal would be to make this resource buff something common to all pets and the critical chance buff would be something optional that would come from the helminth. Today the most wronged pet is the adarza and the kubrow and some types infested with deimos. Or turn these usable resource and critical chance buffs into mods to be used on pets? If they really want to democratize the use of pets and forcing players to use other things is not the ideal path....the idea of nerfing the kavat's resource buffs will only create discontent in the warframe community. That crit buff is a #*!%ing joke if you are actually remotely geared since it caps you to orange crits. Charm should be renamed Charm & Curse, since that is essentially what it currently does and the reason why I stopped using it long ago. If you want crit pick the Adarza since it is a straight buff that actually works with crit weapons. Plus, they are reworking precepts overall, just as they said in the devstream if you had listened to more than what you wanted to hear. And the resource portion of charm is highly overrated unless you are in the early to mid game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekomian Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Vaml77 said: Why not improve the power of other pets and give better reasons to use them? They said in the same sentence (or the one adjoining it) that they would be attempting to raise the power of other companion specific mods to match that of charm, but that as is it's an outlier given it can provide so many buffs. It shouldn't always be "well, more resources so take this pet!" due to charm, and I think they recognize that but also don't want to deal with the mess that is "muh charm nerfs" that people will scream if that change is made. We'll see how they approach that given those considerations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ApoX95 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 I think the most fair way to handle this is to just keep the ressource buffs in charm and remove everything else (like with crit chance for example, there's literally another type that is based around crit - so why does smeeta have ressource buffs AND crit? AND infinity energy buffs? AND I believe even a magazine type of buff?) having a kavat (or companion in general for that matter) who buffs ressources like smeeta currently does is an option we should keep for sure. but all the additional buffs are just overkill imo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 The reason is Steel Essence. People used Khora to automate Steel Essence farming and walk home with 20k of them -> now the shop has a limit to how much you can buy per week (since a bunch of people basically have infinite Steel Essence). People leave Steel Essence on the ground until they have a 16 times Smeeta buff and pick up 1000 Steel Essence in one go -> Smeeta is getting nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReddyDisco Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said: People leave Steel Essence on the ground until they have a 16 times Smeeta buff and pick up 1000 Steel Essence in one go -> Smeeta is getting nerfed. That doesn't work anymore, steel essence disappears after 5mins. was changed 2 years ago 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Mastermitchel89 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said: They said in the same sentence (or the one adjoining it) that they would be attempting to raise the power of other companion specific mods to match that of charm, but that as is it's an outlier given it can provide so many buffs. It shouldn't always be "well, more resources so take this pet!" due to charm, and I think they recognize that but also don't want to deal with the mess that is "muh charm nerfs" that people will scream if that change is made. We'll see how they approach that given those considerations. at the moment im questioning if Companions are becoming too powerful or if im not used to them being good If they nerf and buff it could make another Chimera of Balance and Imbalance... Again. But its probably fine Spoiler Im lying Its potential powercreep and could lead DE into making Steelpath 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunderthefirmament Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 53 minutes ago, Myscho said: Charm is overused and we know what they do with that Agreed, but I can't blame the players for this. It seems like every new update releases with yet another new resource to gather. Combine that ever-growing grind with the dismal state of basically every other companion pre-rework, and it's no surprise that people flocked to Smeeta. Or Panzer. I'm glad we got phase 1 of the pet rework, but I'm still using my Smeeta with basically the same build. The only change is that I put on Primed Pack Leader instead of the normal version. Some of the bond mods are interesting, but not interesting enough to warrant replacing a chance at x2 (or more) Steel Essence during the odd incursion that goes long enough for an acolyte to spawn, or an affinity boost when forma'ing and reranking Grendel Prime, Hydroid Prime, and Dagath like I did last week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) Charm should not exponentially stack on itself. It's the same reason you can't just recast Eclipse and get Eclipse squared. RNG based loot discrepancies in squads purely because of Charm has been unhealthy for years. Edited October 28, 2023 by Voltage 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivy Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 You got to understand that anything that increases how many resources you get in a farming game is already busted in itself As someone that has played with Smeeta for thousands of hours I'm glad its going so I can now have variety to choose instead of picking the "Double your loot" companion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad4youLT Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Myscho said: Charm is overused and we know what they do with that Why get double drops for free than you can pay Platinum for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDGDen Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Vaml77 said: Why not improve the power of other pets do you want powercreep? because this is how you get powercreep. balance is obtained by nerfing things that overperform and buffing things that underperform, not by buffing everything up to the same level as the thing that overperforms. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Voltage said: Charm should not exponentially stack on itself. Fair point. Without the exponential stacking there really isn't any issue caused by Charm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Hellsteeth30 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Good job I have an Adarza in the tank, though Smeeta sure is handy for Lua plasm grinding. Borderline useless for anything outside of charm though. Just hope this Kavat is female though, it's an absolute sausage fest in my pets list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)C11H22O11 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) You suggest buffing other powers to be on par with charm but how the fridge would you even buff something to the level of charm? You have to do nerfs and buffs to get proper balance that's how it should be. Edited October 28, 2023 by (XBOX)C11H22O11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
----Legacy---- Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, bad4youLT said: Why get double drops for free than you can pay Platinum for that Why not both since charm stacks with resource boosters, providing a x4 resources. That's assuming charm is not stacking with other instances of itself which can lead up to a whooping x64 resource buff when stars align due to its ridiculous exponential stacking which becomes 2^4 instances of charm x2 from normal boosters x2 from event booster (yes i know event ones are very rare and we haven't had one in ages, but i wouldn't be surprised if smeeta's charm had a role on why) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Vaml77 said: There are other pets that no one uses like kavat adarza that doesn't buff the player who uses it and only the other players in the match This isn't true, or there is an intermittent bug I don't know about. Adarza crit chance bonus works perfectly well on the player. It also has the advantage of always being a bonus to crits. Unlike Charm, which sets crit chance to 200% and functions as a penalty if your crit chance is above that. If you have 240%, Charm will make that just 200% while Cat's Eye will make it 300%. As far as the main topic goes, I think you should prepare yourself for a nerf to Charm's resource boost. It's amazing it wasn't nerfed before now, and I think the only thing that kept it from happening is the weakness of non-Panzer pets and DE's desire to bundle a nerf with a bunch of buffs, QoLs and elaborations of a general pet overhaul. As always, I could be wrong. But I think DE has dropped plenty of hints already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lumen2ne1 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: That crit buff is a #*!%ing joke if you are actually remotely geared since it caps you to orange crits. Charm should be renamed Charm & Curse, since that is essentially what it currently does and the reason why I stopped using it long ago. If you want crit pick the Adarza since it is a straight buff that actually works with crit weapons. Plus, they are reworking precepts overall, just as they said in the devstream if you had listened to more than what you wanted to hear. And the resource portion of charm is highly overrated unless you are in the early to mid game. Oh god, as a Kullervo player I hate that crit buff. Forces me to lose my guaranteed red crits and it happens so often. Was thinking about switching back to sentinels but steel essences, vitus essences and void traces benefit too much to not use charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joezone619 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Myscho said: Charm is overused and we know what they do with that Just ask ember or banshee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Joylesstuna Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) This is going to suck as it's the only way to make sp survival fissures tolerable. Maybe reduce it's ability to quadruple (or even multiply drops by 6) drops but please let us keep at least the x2. It's been in the game for so long and is working as intended, there is no need to fix it other then to make things more miserable. Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said: This is going to suck as it's the only way to make sp survival fissures tolerable. Maybe reduce it's ability to quadruple (or even multiply drops by 6) drops but please let us keep at least the x2. It's been in the game for so long and is working as intended, there is no need to fix it other then to make things more miserable. It's not so much that it doesn't work as intended, it's that Smeeta has for years been effectively what Carrier Prime and Carrier were prior. Properly nerfing Charm (along with auditing all other companion precepts) and baking companion precepts innately to free up modding space would dramatically increase the variety of companions. Honestly speaking though, if they really want to open the doors, they need to make Vacuum innate to Warframes themselves and remove that mod from companions too. Edited October 28, 2023 by Voltage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad4youLT Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said: Why not both since charm stacks with resource boosters, providing a x4 resources. That's assuming charm is not stacking with other instances of itself which can lead up to a whooping x64 resource buff when stars align due to its ridiculous exponential stacking which becomes 2^4 instances of charm x2 from normal boosters x2 from event booster (yes i know event ones are very rare and we haven't had one in ages, but i wouldn't be surprised if smeeta's charm had a role on why) You missed the memo I was making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Joylesstuna Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Voltage said: It's so much that it doesn't work as intended, it's that Smeeta has for years been effectively what Carrier Prime and Carrier were prior. Properly nerfing Charm (along with auditing all other companion precepts) and baking companion precepts innately to free up modding space would dramatically increase the variety of companions. Honestly speaking though, if they really want to open the doors, they need to make Vacuum innate to Warframes themselves and remove that mod from companions too. I'm not sure how vacuum is relevant to this conversation personally as NOT having vacuum on smeeta is best so you can wait for 5 minutes in case you get a blessing. Forcing vacuum would be an additional nerf to smeeta. 3 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said: Why not both since charm stacks with resource boosters, providing a x4 resources. That's assuming charm is not stacking with other instances of itself which can lead up to a whooping x64 resource buff when stars align due to its ridiculous exponential stacking which becomes 2^4 instances of charm x2 from normal boosters x2 from event booster (yes i know event ones are very rare and we haven't had one in ages, but i wouldn't be surprised if smeeta's charm had a role on why) To be fair this is extremely rare. Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna I don't think smeeta affinity blessings being able to stack is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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