Oberon Revisited: Prime Time Surprise and Next Steps!

[Trichouette]

I just hope you won't give us a "% armor bonus" because that is very stupid and you know it.

Most frames have around 100 armor or even less, so unless the % is higher than several hundreds it'll be still useless.

[OxideNation]

2 hours ago, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

no, vaubans is +50 armor to yourself per ally within 20 meters

which is damage reduction lol

[OxideNation]

56 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

No it wouldn't be cool, because that would completely remove Oberon's ability to turn choke points into DOT / kill zones by laying strategically-placed carpets - a feature that at least some of us Oberon players find rather useful. It's not just a status-removal / armour buff zone for friendlies you know.

dude almost noone finds that useful. Because if it's a choke point in most cases or basically all cases there's a frame that can easily do that job better. All I am saying is it sounds like you're scared of change of your warframe which is okay. But statistically and from experience the whole choke point argument is completely invalid. Also a 20% damage reduction at high content still = one shot so lets try and figure out something that works more appropriately for his game play or future game play. 

Lets all think outside of the box for idea's but also realize this frames lore and take it into account. For one I would DIE to see his hallowed ground get a visual update that is very fairy esque with stuff that grows out of the ground like forest esque stuff? maybe slowing the enemies down at a set rate while still giving them a radiation proc of some sort.

 

His renew just needs to be reworked in general because HOTS (heal over times) are a very very specific niche in healing in which in any game they usually aren't the main healers unless scaled properly to fit situations as a whole. This game is all about movement. Maybe a healing Aura for a certain amount of area/range where it emits out from him?  ORRRRR here's an idea?

 

When you use renewal while in hallowed ground you gain a bonus to heal over time while in hallowed ground. Oberon smashes his staff into the ground tethering himself to his hallowed ground emitting "pulses" of healing waves over a decent range Anyone outside that aura gets healed for less. That way you get the paladin bulwark rough defender while keeping his healing a synergy.

 

He needs better armor if he's gonna be a paladin esque frame though.

Edited April 25, 2017 by OxideNation

[Empoly]

I love what is to come for Deerframe-I mean Oberon! Though, as most others, I would like to say what else I would like to see:

1. I would really like to see more health orbs popping up from him, perhaps something like 50% chance, unaffected by mods, for every enemy hit by Oberon's 1st or 4th ability to drop a health orb would be lovely. Perhaps even 25% chance would be ok if you do feel like the 50% would cause balancing issues.

2. I would love to see that Renewal wave be faster than Nova's or Mag's, and at the same time, if I am not asking for too much, to have quite a decent range on it, at least bigger than Trinity's.

3. This third thing isn't really an idea of mine, but more of a plug. I would really love if you, the developers, would check out Brozime's video (On Youtube) if you didn't already, he has some great suggestions on there.

Other that these things, I am already melting for our dear deer! Can't wait to see it! I trust ya'll that you'll do a good job!

[Tesseract7777]

DE, thank you for listening! This latest change you are adding to the Renewal rework is that final piece in the puzzle, it was one of the most important things Oberon was missing, and the most important thing Renewal was missing, for a long time. The rework looks amazing! With this final change to Renewal, I think Oberon is going to see a lot more play, and is going to be much better at fulfilling his support/hybrid role. I am really looking forward to playing the new Oberon! He sounds way cool. 
 

As others have said, the only other thing I could possibly suggest is to make it easier for him to make health orbs appear. Right now it is only when Reckoning gets kills, and then it is only a possibility. Perhaps some way he could make health orbs appear by getting assists with certain abilities, or enemies he irradiates with his abilities, or something similar? 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[saop]

The changes look nice, but I fear they won't really change Oberon from his current status in game... a subpar support.  He needs something that makes him stand out. 

I always wanted Reckoning to synergize with hallowed ground by slamming all enemies he picks up down onto his carpet.  This would make him a much better support and control frame, give HG some bigger damage potential, and make him more than a garbage heal bot. 

Changes are always nice, but none of the new changes look like they fix his problems. 

[saop]

The changes look nice, but I fear they won't really change Oberon from his current status in game... a subpar support.  He needs something that makes him stand out. 

I always wanted Reckoning to synergize with hallowed ground by slamming all enemies he picks up down onto his carpet.  This would make him a much better support and control frame, give HG some bigger damage potential, and make him more than a garbage heal bot. 

Changes are always nice, but none of the new changes look like they fix his problems. 

[main_antagonist]

3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

No it wouldn't be cool, because that would completely remove Oberon's ability to turn choke points into DOT / kill zones by laying strategically-placed carpets - a feature that at least some of us Oberon players find rather useful. It's not just a status-removal / armour buff zone for friendlies you know.

move into the chokepoint ... cast hallowed ground ... walk away ... profit? With enough range it wouldn't matter if it was a circle or a rectangle.

 

[PsiWarp]

Considering how Hallowed Ground and ability synergy will be core to this rework, I hope there will be adjustments to Oberon's stats to reflect his need for casting multiple instances and ability combos, as well as some way to regain energy.

For example:

• Power stat is increased from 150 to 225.
• Enemies killed by Smite projectiles grant Oberon 5 energy each (complementing the new scaling damage).
• Reckoning also has a chance to spawn Energy Orbs.

[Polymorphe]

Glad to see him getting changes that will help him in the long run.

[Kingmana]

Oh thanks a lot. I do use Oberón quite a bit so I am happy to see this small rework. I believe it will be much stronger and cooler, I love the modifications to Renewal and the Reckoning spam will be cooler now, that's amazing! Thanks! 

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

move into the chokepoint ... cast hallowed ground ... walk away ... profit? With enough range it wouldn't matter if it was a circle or a rectangle.

 

Except that at present I can lay down multiple carpets in different areas quite distant from each other and walk away. I can cover multiple entrances and routes into a given area. With a single HG centered around Oberon...players won't be able to do that anymore.

Congrats. You're supporting a change that would actually REDUCE the effectiveness and usefulness of an ability.

 

4 hours ago, OxideNation said:

dude almost noone finds that useful.

You mean all the people you know, right? I find it useful and there are fans of Oberon that find that feature useful as well. That's a fact. What you said is merely your biased opinion.

Yes it's a fact that HG currently doesn't scale well and that its armor buff doesn't help low armour Frames all that much. I'm very much in favor of having that fixed. I also like the fact that HG will be covering a much larger area by the looks of it -making each HG set down more efficient - and that its fx are changing to something less cheesy.

 

Quote

All I am saying is it sounds like you're scared of change of your warframe which is okay

That's awfully presumptuous and condescending. I'm in favor of changes that make sense, that benefit players, not changes that would rob an ability or Frame of its effectiveness and uniqueness. You know what? Limbo is one of my fave Frames...and I thought the changes they made to him recently were MOST welcome.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Renewal could still stand to be scaled up a bit. Also maybe base energy drain on the amount healed?

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Looks great! I'm glad that there seems to be nothing that negatively affects the already good Oberon users, except for one thing, being Renewal's spread speed. Renewal's orbs are currently affected by Natural Talent, and I hope the new wave is affected the same way. One other thing though. Is it true that Reckoning will no longer drop health orbs? It would be sad to have to get rid of my Health Conversion build. Either way though, the rework is looking great overall, and I think all of my 7 Oberons will benefit from it.

Also, I'm loving the proposed passive idea. As mainly a kavat user myself it'll benefit me quite a lot, but I think it's also nice as a way to get more people to see the usefulness some pets have.

 

[DreamsmithJane]

Love it.

Smite no longer falling off quite so hard when you're in a sortie sounds great, and the fact that it scales with the target solidifies its position as a "giant slayer", a tool for dealing with the most dangerous enemies.

Hallowed Ground gaining status chance promises to let Oberon players spend less time pressing 4, overall, which lately has proven to be a good thing.

Renewal granting a flat armor bonus to allies on Hallowed Ground fixes one of the problems HG struggles with now: percent armor boosts are useless for protecting allies with very low base armor, and those are the ones you most want to protect. The armor buff scaling positively with duration after the heal ends means you can build for duration to get a faster (thus, stronger) heal without sacrificing actual duration on the buff. Finally, the heal remaining for its full duration also allows it to be used proactively, in contrast with Trinity's reactive Blessing. It's this last change that takes the sting out of potentially losing the infinite range, but truth be told, I think it's appropriate for us to fight together, anyway. Question: will this wave also heal rescue targets and other non-Tenno allies?

Reckoning's new armor debuff adds some welcome utility to one of the game's less potent support frames. His heal is slower than others, and his CC still leaves bullets flying around, so the armor buffs and debuffs definitely give him a niche within the category.

Finally, the thing you didn't mention, the proposed passive. It's honestly a great idea. Kubrow and kavat abilities are very useful, and I feel like the only people who would object to having access to them more often are those who have already decided they don't want to use pets at all. Most of them appear to be people who can't let go of Vacuum, which is fine. Ironically, they're the same people who decry Mag's passive because "everyone has Vacuum on their sentinel", even though there are plenty of people who prefer to bring pets. It seems like a small thing, but I'm actually excited to see this new passive in action. I hope you don't shy away from it because of a few vocal people who seem to hate pets. In fact, I'd like to see a Prime kavat collar (like Kavasa for kubrows) released alongside Oberon Prime. Just saying...

[redeyedtreefrog]

First off, big thanks to the developers for taking player opinion into consideration. You've just fixed one of the two biggest problems with the renewal ability. However, I believe I speak for many of us oberon players when I say that I'm not entirely satisfied. While you've now made it POSSIBLE to build for renewal's regeneration and phoenix renewal, but you still haven't addressed the inverse duration scaling caused by ever making renewal a channeled ability in the first place. This causes building for renewal's bleedout reduction, regeneration, or phoenix renewal to gimp hallowed ground, as well as lose out on the marginal CC caused by reckoning's blind. It also means you can't cast renewal repetitively(you must first cancel the active renewal buff), which, considering the fact that renewal can reach different allies at different times, is pretty bad. Not to mention oberon is a frame that relies heavily on repetitive casting of powers.

You also seem to want to keep the changes you made to renewal (nerfing its range from infinite to what sounds like maybe less range than trinity, unless you mod for MAXIMUM duration), and from what little footage of the oberon rework I saw, it even seems to move SLOWER than the previous renewal's orbs. This destroys almost all of renewal's potential as a bleedout reducer (it will only work if you're already near the downed player, at which point you would likely be able to revive them anyway, and the time spent casting renewal would be a net loss of time). 

I'm pleased to see that you seem to be keeping reckoning's 100% radiation proc chance (I would have been fine with losing it, until I found out that hallowed ground's radiation proc is a strength-based chance. In that situation, I thank you for keeping reckoning's rad procs untouched.)

And I think I speak for all of us when I say that the changes to hallowed ground's shape are a step in the right direction. I don't think I'll ever give up on the idea that it should be a radial ability, but the arc is a welcome change nonetheless.

Now, question time!

Is hallowed ground's shape able to reach full 360 degree coverage(making it effectively radial)? If so, does that require fully maxed power range? If not, what is the maximum angle we can achieve? Is there a hard cap to the angle we can achieve, after which point more range doesn't affect the angle? Is there a soft cap, where the amount of range required to reach angle x approaches infinity(an asymptotic function)?

What is the base status chance for hallowed ground's radiation procs? Can you get it to achieve 100% status chance? If so, how much strength does that require?

Reckoning: Do we actually get to keep the 100% rad proc chance(just to make sure that didn't escape the changenotes)? Is the hallowed reckoning augment staying as-is? If so, will hallowed reckoning count in terms of the armor-stripping synergy? Is the armor-stripping flat or a percentage? Does it stack? If so, will we experience diminishing returns? Is the armor strip permanent or duration based?

[OxideNation]

Edited April 26, 2017 by OxideNation

[Circle_of_Psi]

Alright, so far I am enjoying the new Rework idea, that was posted, granted it was still all W.I.P and we have a Devstream (Hopefully showing) the other changes. However I feel that it needs even more changes. But besides what Brozime said I have a few ideas of my own.

On 24/04/2017 at 11:14 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Smite: 

• Damage from projectiles emitted from the enemy scales based on enemy level.

So lets begin with Smite: So so far this is great. However there needs to be MORE changes.

• Damage Buff in general,
•  100%  Radiation. 
• Casting on allies will now heal them, Can be casted on-self.
• Smite Infusion Injected,
• Now Acts like Reckoning

 

On 24/04/2017 at 11:14 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Hallowed Ground: 

• Hallowed Ground is now more of an 'arc' shape (Range Mods create a wider/longer arc).
• Added a Status Chance that is affected by Strength Mods.
• Adjusted damage and ranges.

Likewise about Smite, a few changes of my own, added on top of the following, needs to be added.

• 100%  Radiation. Regardless of Mods.
• Allies will gain a HoT, when standing on H.G
•  H.G is now Mobile.

On 24/04/2017 at 11:14 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Renewal:

• Increased casting animation speed.
• Changed to an expanding wave of healing instead of a projectile. 
• Energy drain starts once wave hits allies, not leading up to it.
• Allies on Hallowed Ground get an Armor buff for the entire heal process. Once heal is finished the Armor buff is on a timer (affected by Duration).
• Healing Does Not Stop

 

Changes are great and what  Brozime said needs to be implanted. However my other ideas

• Phoenix Renewal Injected 

 

Exalted Magistar

• Dealings 100%  Radiation
• Each Kill, Grants a Heal to near by Allies & Youself
• When Held, You are fully Immune to all Status effects
• Scales Like Smite
• Nuff Said 

Edited April 26, 2017 by LegionCynex
Fixed Black Text

[Turtlemancer]

Thank you for taking our feedback on Renewal, keep up the good work.

Please ignore everyone complaining about the new passive its perfect as is. So many people want passives to be something they are not.

For those who don't know the new passive gives Kavats and Kubrows faster ability cooldowns and gives them a free revive. A lot of people are complaining though and honestly I hope they don't change it from that. Its an awesome new passive.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Turtlemancer

[redeyedtreefrog]

I've noticed a lot of people mentioning that hallowed ground should be a mobile aura. As an oberon player, I'll say that I much prefer a static effect, and I'd like to point out that an aura hallowed ground quite simply doesn't make sense. He just... passively... sanctifies everything within 10 feet of him? And why do things unsanctify when he leaves? The whole idea behind hallowed ground is a static ability, and it just wouldn't make sense if it were mobile. The entire ability would have to be re-envisioned in order for the aura mechanic to make sense. And again, as an oberon player, the current static ability works fine.

[El_Chino]

I have a suggestion for Reckoning.

Why not make it so it also scales... Give it some base damage, but then make it so it also deals extra damage based on much life the target is missing. So if you cast on a bunch of full hp enemies, you deal only the base, but if you cast on enemies that have been damaged, you deal even more damage.

This way we would still be able to get orbs at higher levels, because right now its super hard to kill some hard and beefy enemies.

Let's say Reckoning now also deals 0.5 damage per health lost, that will mean that an enemy at half health will take an aditional 25% of its max health, affected or not by armor. And to secure a kill you will have to bring the unit down to 33% hp, since half of 67% (hp lost) is 33.5. That extra damage per hp lost could scale both with power level and power strength.

I would preffer this on the ult, and armor debuff on the "piercing" projectiles of Smite, for the reason of having an easier time generating health orbs.
(it will also make the power fit better with its name, no?)

Edited April 26, 2017 by El_Chino
Added a thought on Smite.

[Turtlemancer]

5 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

I've noticed a lot of people mentioning that hallowed ground should be a mobile aura. As an oberon player, I'll say that I much prefer a static effect, and I'd like to point out that an aura hallowed ground quite simply doesn't make sense. He just... passively... sanctifies everything within 10 feet of him? And why do things unsanctify when he leaves? The whole idea behind hallowed ground is a static ability, and it just wouldn't make sense if it were mobile. The entire ability would have to be re-envisioned in order for the aura mechanic to make sense. And again, as an oberon player, the current static ability works fine.

I honestly have asked for this myself, but I want it as an augument, and not really as an aura more like Volts Shocking speed so an area effect that surrounds Oberon with the caveat that his feet must be touching the ground. But I again reiterate I want this as an augment.

[NightmareT12]

Now that my vision seems a tad better, I guess I can write more thoroughly my thoughts :)

Per ability basis:

• Smite: Everything seems nice and dandy here, so can't wait to try it out. Maybe numerical adjustment once it releases? But for that I must play it first.
• Hallowed Ground: I like the fact you guys gave it more love. I am one of those who thinks this ability should stay as it currently is but with better numbers and range (on that you delivered). I see no mention of the armor buff, so I hope it is not removed.
  Having said this, I must say you probably gave too much importance to Hallowed Ground in the Synergy. Synergy is welcome there, but I'd say it's over the top. Probably people moving on it to pick up an armor buff would be nice, while Status clearance and the such would be better to remain on the static... But even then I question if that'd be a good idea myself.
• Renewal: I don't like the wave. PERIOD. You guys should have kept the projectiles but improved the travel distance/delivery to faraway allies. I cannot help people across rooms now, or at least that's the feeling I got. I even thought of keeping the same effect but adding Butterflies instead of projectiles, like Titania has, (Oberon to me is a Paladin, but he's still the kind of fairies and it could make some sense. Those could be Primed too, wink wink). Renewal not stopping at full health though? Where do I sign? :)
• Reckoning: That looks good I guess. Not much to say. Maybe it would be nice to have better damage scaling though -- it feels and sounds like such an imposing ability, and then it hardly scratches high level enemies. Must wait and see though.
• Passive: Not the best, but leaps and heaps of where it was. Hopefully I'll use my Kavats/Kubrows more soon :)
• Other: Base armor, please, needs to be increased by 100 (from 150-> 250). Oberon Prime should use higher health and armor I guess. That's an important note I'd like to make.

Finally, thanks to the team for giving Oberon finally some love. Now all I need is for you guys to finally PBR him, give him a golden coat, and hopefully try to rig that default armor of his so it doesn't clip anymore. EWWWW.

:)

[FelanGrey]

If Renewal would still drain energy when it active, why don't remove timer?
On low lvl mission Renewal didn't even need, but in missions 60+ lvl you can be killed really fast.
I suggest to make it active ability, so it would instant heal HP when start to work, as it's now, and heal per second with energy drain for each frame that need healing. Armor buff from Hallowed Ground would still have timer, so you'll have to recast Renewal to have it again.
And for Phoenix Renewal it would be really good. You shouldn't always press 3 in time to get effect from augment if you'll take fatal damage. Also don't forget that it has a 90-second cooldown  - it's pretty much time to get down again.

[paixdamien]

even a 250 armor wont be enough. his base armor should be at least 350. he is a paladin. i will never like these buffs as long as these problems will still be there after rework: 

HG forces you to stay on the ground to get the buffs. you cant be mobile 

HG armor buff is %. useless against high lvl, useless buff for low armor frames

new renewal: "Allies on Hallowed Ground get an Armor buff for the entire heal process. Once heal is finished the Armor buff is on a timer (affected by Duration)" oh so now it also forces your teamates to stay on the HG to get the low armor buff? whoah coool.. great.... worse than before

its very simple. he is a paladin. what should a paladin do? buffing teamates, could be a heal + giving dmg reduce or armor buff but since the % armor are useless on low armor frames then why not make it % reduce damage buff? a paladin should be tanky af. his armor tied to ash? lower than saryn, excal, or even frost which are dps/nuker frames? does that makes sense? no. does he need a damage buff? NO. what he needs is better buffs for his teammates, keeping them alive and while having no problem on tanking dmg. i dont get why people are happy on this rework. maybe some of you just really like ''damage'' on every frames, maybe you're just a bandwagoner because he is receiving a damage buff, maybe you're happy that he's finally getting a buff and you will take any buffs that you can get you dont care or maybe some of you dont understand whats the paladin role should be in the game idk we have different opinions yeah. if i wanna use a dps or a nuker frame why someone should use a paladin? why should a paladin die on a few hits? even the gunslinger has a better survivability than the paladin. the psychic is a better tank than the paladin. crazy no? maybe we should sometimes ask for what the frame really needs. its not always the damage

i would trade all oberon's dmg for better buffs and survivability in a heartbeat. make all the skill deals 0 dmg idfc the dmg are useless on high lvl anyway take it all away just leave the debuff procs and cc alone and ill use my weapons to kill(thats what paladin does, they use their weapons not skills to nuke) but make him the best tank that he should be and ill be fine 

or maybe i should just accept that warframe is ''different'' where the dps are better tank than the paladin well fook me