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(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

that gif made me laugh honestly 

but will you put umbrals into bat ash? 

On my second one, yeah. Gonna try.

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3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

You'll have to show me what build you use because I don't see a scenario where it's possible. Also, melee specialists "benefits" from health and armor, it doesn't make them stronger at all as their kit already allows them to tank without any need for those stats. Valkyr 2 and 4 already allows her to perfectly tank level 200 enemies without any investment in those stats, that's already endless level which as already said no one really cares about. Also, most valk build don't use health and armor, actually even I as someone who really don't play the frame knows that. You just press 2 and spin through the level, the higher your strength, the faster it goes. Nothing can kill or harm you. Even the most used build on warframe builder agrees with that fact

5

the point is I can do it with better utility.  I am building for her 2

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11211230004w4050000r103y510c105m610y710y910y810f803b303b103
 this is an ESO build it can emidiatly cast her 2 upon entering a new floor with over 120% attack speed more strength adds little to the experience. nor have I found a build that had as much strength, efficiency, and duration at the same time while maintaining a healthy amount of EHP.  the build is more of a jack of all trades with specialization in warcry and used almost exclusively in ESO for focus farming with naromon.  the requirement for this build to work is that on spawn you can cast her 2 and that you can survive sortie 3 level corrupted enimies

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11211230004w405m403p710y510p810i005y810y910j405f803b103b303

this is a berserker build for use in star chat and mid-level content I uses HA for energy sustain and does not skimp on bulk for when you are out of energy (replace arcane grace with energies or a melee crit/damage arcane I dont have Either but this is more of what I would use for this build.)
 

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

They already made “your” Umbra.   He casts his alt-4 once and disappears forever.  He gets permanent immunity to everything and squadmates rejoice.

WIN/WIN!

Frameism in this very thread? 

Image result for i'm shocked gif

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7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Frameism in this very thread? 

Image result for i'm shocked gif

these two get into it from time to time

umrbas in themselves are as i see it a necessity and eventuality  

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

these two get into it from time to time

umrbas in themselves are as i see it a necessity and eventuality  

Ah, must have missed it in the past.

Or I just forgot.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Ah, must have missed it in the past.

Or I just forgot.

We only rib those we deem worthy of friendship.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

We only rib those we deem worthy.

Thanks very much.

 

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

latest?cb=20141003021447

Image result for nicholas cage gif

  • Haha 1

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4 часа назад, Ksaero сказал:

I wonder if it means no more Umbra frames 😕

Now it means Prime > Umbra. And we don`t get another Umbra warframe.

Edited by Darth_Nox
  • Upvote 1

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3 hours ago, Darth_Nox said:

Now it means Prime > Umbra.

Why though? Comparing two Excals, Umbra still has additional utility of 2nd ability over Prime. Also, better design and passive (these are more subjective though).

3 hours ago, Darth_Nox said:

And we don`t get another Umbra warframe.

Well, it makes sense to not release same warframes for the third time, though I hope for alternate Prime/Umbra skins in future.

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7 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

the point is I can do it with better utility.  I am building for her 2

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11211230004w4050000r103y510c105m610y710y910y810f803b303b103
 this is an ESO build it can emidiatly cast her 2 upon entering a new floor with over 120% attack speed more strength adds little to the experience. nor have I found a build that had as much strength, efficiency, and duration at the same time while maintaining a healthy amount of EHP.  the build is more of a jack of all trades with specialization in warcry and used almost exclusively in ESO for focus farming with naromon.  the requirement for this build to work is that on spawn you can cast her 2 and that you can survive sortie 3 level corrupted enimies

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11211230004w405m403p710y510p810i005y810y910j405f803b103b303

this is a berserker build for use in star chat and mid-level content I uses HA for energy sustain and does not skimp on bulk for when you are out of energy (replace arcane grace with energies or a melee crit/damage arcane I dont have Either but this is more of what I would use for this build.)
 

Better utility ? What do you even mean by that ? 

the requirement for this build to work is that on spawn you can cast her 2 and that you can survive sortie 3 level corrupted enimies

That's a very easy requirement

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11411210034w405p405p710y510h005c610y8100a10m610f803b103b103

156% attack speed/armor Preference for rush or handspring over power drift to clear corridors faster or and easier time when melee'ing and arcane phantasm over the second fury to move even faster, parkour speed is I think even better tho but the proc chance is lower and it's kinda hard to receive damage with that setup. I added vitality to make it casual friendly. Maxed Narrow minded to prevent the slow from slowing too far from your melee spin setup. Slightly lower duration but who cares. Classic Valkyr melee setup. 

Edited by Shelusine

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12 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Why though? Comparing two Excals, Umbra still has additional utility of 2nd ability over Prime. Also, better design and passive (these are more subjective though).

Well, it makes sense to not release same warframes for the third time, though I hope for alternate Prime/Umbra skins in future.

they already did do it for one and per dev streams have already stated more umbras would come 

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14 hours ago, Shelusine said:

Better utility ? What do you even mean by that ? 

the requirement for this build to work is that on spawn you can cast her 2 and that you can survive sortie 3 level corrupted enimies

That's a very easy requirement

https://tennoware.com/warframes/valkyr prime/11411210034w405p405p710y510h005c610y8100a10m610f803b103b103

156% attack speed/armor Preference for rush or handspring over power drift to clear corridors faster or and easier time when melee'ing and arcane phantasm over the second fury to move even faster, parkour speed is I think even better tho but the proc chance is lower and it's kinda hard to receive damage with that setup. I added vitality to make it casual friendly. Maxed Narrow minded to prevent the slow from slowing too far from your melee spin setup. Slightly lower duration but who cares. Classic Valkyr melee setup. 

fail you lack the needed survivability.  this will not last in floor 6+ corrupted ESO for more than a second in the larger tiles you will be destroyed because you are limited by the speed of the stance.  My current build gets destroyed in moments If I don’t have a way to regain health over time heavy/light corrupted and light corpus are some of the most dangerous groups in ESO.  Also, you made a foolish assumption that I had meming strike equipped.  I use a blood rush kripath polearm built for .9 attack, 15%status, and 29% crit.  Like I stated earlier her power is in part related to Her health.  Your frame has 740 health*(1+1778/300)=5887EHP which in compared to my ~14k ehp build is a still less than half.  
But to prove my point more just adding umbral Vitality over Vitality offers more strength and better survivability by de-ranking power drift by one you get 321% strength and 850 health. This translates to a buff of 160% over your 155% and an EHP of 6006 so for no more cost than a spare Power drift the Umbral build is still stronger, and this is with the additional cost of an exiles adapter and a forma over my Umbral build which does use one (for the berserker build and that is only because it is nice to have).  Yes you managed to get 315% power strength and now have 40% more attack speed than I do with my build however your valk will die if it ever meets a nullifiers as it has no innate bulk or ability to sustain its self If it takes damage even the improved version of your build (making it a half umbral) still is weaker in all respects except melee attack speed.  For a 27% increase in attack speed, you trade a 56% of her survivability and remove the only source of sustain in the build  Rage/HA.  Your build is not only weaker than the umbral version but sacrifices 56% off its survivability and the ability to heal at any time for a pathetic increase in of attack speed that will only be noticed on the slowest of weapons.  You have proved nothing but my point for the cost on a frame where part of its strength is its ability to sustain damage to make a "stronger" build you sacrificed all that for an insignificant gain and still by your own criteria did not have a better build than a half umbral and by throwing away all survivability will you have a built that has +5% more attack speed and no heath.  

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39 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

fail you lack the needed survivability.  this will not last in floor 6+ corrupted ESO for more than a second in the larger tiles you will be destroyed because you are limited by the speed of the stance.  My current build gets destroyed in moments If I don’t have a way to regain health over time heavy/light corrupted and light corpus are some of the most dangerous groups in ESO.  Also, you made a foolish assumption that I had meming strike equipped.  I use a blood rush kripath polearm built for .9 attack, 15%status, and 29% crit.  Like I stated earlier her power is in part related to Her health.  Your frame has 740 health*(1+1778/300)=5887EHP which in compared to my ~14k ehp build is a still less than half.  
 But to prove my point more just adding umbral Vitality over Vitality offers more strength and better survivability by de-ranking power drift by one you get 321% strength and 850 health. This translates to a buff of 160% over your 155% and an EHP of 6006 so for no more cost than a spare Power drift the Umbral build is still stronger, and this is with the additional cost of an exiles adapter and a forma over my Umbral build which does use one (for the berserker build and that is only because it is nice to have).  Yes you managed to get 315% power strength and now have 40% more attack speed than I do with my build however your valk will die if it ever meets a nullifiers as it has no innate bulk or ability to sustain its self If it takes damage even the improved version of your build (making it a half umbral) still is weaker in all respects except melee attack speed.  For a 27% increase in attack speed, you trade a 56% of her survivability and remove the only source of sustain in the build  Rage/HA.  Your build is not only weaker than the umbral version but sacrifices 56% off its survivability and the ability to heal at any time for a pathetic increase in of attack speed that will only be noticed on the slowest of weapons.  You have proved nothing but my point for the cost on a frame where part of its strength is its ability to sustain damage to make a "stronger" build you sacrificed all that for an insignificant gain and still by your own criteria did not have a better build than a half umbral and by throwing away all survivability will you have a built that has +5% more attack speed and no heath.  

You are making less and less sens.

1) No, I don't. "you" do. I can easily go 12+ with that setup. 

2) A larger radius means a larger slow down, you never want that with a spin setup, you are just playing it wrong.

3) if you don't play with maiming strike or a ranged build on a melee frame I don't really see your point entirely, you are just playing an inferior setup and it shows in how limited you are. I don't see where you are going with that. 

4) Going by that logic I derank umbral vitality and get even more strength or I remove vitality entirely because as I said it's just beginner friendly and replace it with more strength for far more damage reduction and speed. You are forgetting very important key points of this discussion very selectively. 

5) Nullifiers ? Well, "yeah" if you stand still like you do surely but again that's just the limit of your gameplay.

6) "Rage/HA" Mh, let me be blunt here. Well even more than before. You... Simply don't play well. That's not an issue, it's not a competitive game or anything but that's a fact... Umbral mods would "buff" people like you but it wont make the real potential of a frame stronger at all. That's something you should start to think about and understand.

Also it doesn't matter anymore umbral formas are here. 

Edited by Shelusine

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3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

2) A larger radius means a larger slow down, you never want that with a spin setup, you are just playing it wrong.

I said nothing about the aoe slow it does not matter I rarely cast the ability more than once (it can be nice if you hit a nox though for some easy and fast combo but outside of that it is a nonfactor except on death).  what I said was that I was not using memeing strike but a normal polearm (with the twirling spire stance).   

4 hours ago, Shelusine said:

1) No, I don't. "you" do. I can easily go 12+ with that setup.

I assume this is with meming strike and a + range + CM -impact riven on you scoliack?  I know that my melee still needs some work and that I need to finish maxing some mods but I am almost certain that you could not do that with the final version of (or a better version) my polearm without Meming strike.  I often find that my problem is that I can't do quite enough damage with the current build (missing either 1-3 forma or CO it is currently a hybrid as I build up the plat for or farm it however at the moment i should use the 90% elementals over the staus dual stats for better damage)  30% melee attack speed is not the problem however my build lets me  jump into the fray and saves me time (when the levels are below a certain point).  

3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

4) Going by that logic I derank umbral vitality and get even more strength or I remove vitality entirely because as I said it's just beginner friendly and replace it with more strength for far more damage reduction and speed. You are forgetting very important key points of this discussion very selectively.

1

your build has no margin for error.  one or 2 errant shots will end you.  I have lost up to half of my health in one shot before despite being careful (corrupted crewmen can 3-4 shot me depending on level) and having a full stack of buffs up this single shot will instantly end your build.  the only reason it works is because you are using a whip and an AOE attack.  most melees only dealt damage in an arc in front of them and with you cover you can and will take a lot of damage (especially as you start building combo at the start of a wave) also you are not going to gain any significant amount of strength by ditching Vitality (you only options are pax bolt, augar secrets (per your build) and growing power).  

3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

5) Nullifiers ? Well, "yeah" if you stand still like you do surely but again that's just the limit of your gameplay.

I don't stand still I will instantly be killed if I do so (this is true of any frame except inaros).  however, without a primary or secondary, I  have no good means to pop the bubble outside of My operator and depending on ping this is a death sentence for my build much less yours.  and before you say melee it I want to remind you that if I do so I will be stuck in a melee animation and be unable to dodge the bubble if it advances faster than I can shrink it (it is a problem especially on rooted stances like the twirling spire back combo, or on moving stances like the walk and block combos I have ways of dealing with them but a good part of it is that I can normal recast war cry so it is not as big of a concern)

3 hours ago, Shelusine said:

6) "Rage/HA" Mh, let me be blunt here. Well even more than before. You... Simply don't play well. That's not an issue, it's not a competitive game or anything but that's a fact... Umbral mods would "buff" people like you but it wont make the real potential of a frame stronger at all. That's something you should start to think about and understand.

2

 

what are you talking about? you are the one that is not playing the game.  a slide attack macro is not playing, exploiting the devs inability to do math is not playing the game (then again blood rush does not use normal math and applies after crit mods including sac steel and memeing strike not at the same time).  I play the game for fun not hyper-optimization of everything.  your build still even with maxed power strength offers very little. (UI, AS, TF, and BR) your build can only have 35% more attack speed (additive) than my build. For that you sacrificed all survivability, sustain, and room for error.  my build Is slightly past the knee of the curve (I have lost the use of my exalis slot and some versatility) any more strength or survivability will cost you something significant as shown by your build.  very few members of this community would consider that build viable nor would they look at it as a good build for a new player (which I am at under 1k steam hours).   my point was that you would not be able to make as effective of a build without the umbral mods you presented a build that is not as useable by (50%-90% of the community) while being only slightly better than the build I presented at a comparable cost (forma).  you have shown nothing and only proved my point with your build and statements on how it works.  due to the lack of specialization in my build it does not rely on any weapon other than a competent melee, when that is not available it can pick up any functioning firearm and still work, and if all else fails I can sustain Valks 4 by just taking damage.  your build is entirely reliant on what I can only assume is an exceptionally well-moded melee weapon that by your own statements is using a mod that can cost in the upwards of 200 plat (or more form what I have heard) played by a highly skilled player (according to your own statements).  what you presented was the tiger tank, on paper it should be invulnerable and capable of forcing the allies back but in the field, its complexity, cost, and vulnerability to driver error did it in.  on the other hand, the Sherman is a competent medium battle tank (the panther and the tiger were both heavy battle tanks) that should never have been able to win an engagement with a tiger but because of more forgiving systems lower maintenance costs and better utility, it proved its self the better fighting vehical.   

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2) I see, I  must have misread that part.

1) Yes it appears your setup is really lacking but I can't really advise you in that regard if it doesn't concern spinning. Range oriented spin setup are just... one of the very few viable way to go about melee. The rest, unless you're overly tanky is barely usable except for some special cases.  (which is also why I personally  don't understand its incoming nerf when the issue is the requirement for everything else.)

4) Actually it has a margin for tons of errors. Valk has just that much armor with her buff alone, the point where enemies start to be dangerous is as previously said at endless level, anything else... as long as you are not slow and stationary it's very easy to handle. Especially when everything just die in one spin and you get your HP back every spin. Also if it was me I'd use energy conversion but it's me. Augur secret still gives a significant increase though.

5) That's a lot of misunderstandings.

-Tank frames can stand still with umbral builds up to T3 sortie level, I do it very often for fun.

- Use a primary, there's a reason why quick melee is considered OP

- Upgrade your amps if you always stay in melee mods, operators are really great at getting rid of nullified nowadays 

6) Yeah, no. 

-Your opinion on spinning setups is yours but when you need to slot full umbral on a valkyr to use normal melee there's an issue to begin with and clearly not on the spinning side. Literally if I had to play like you did I wouldn't even melee, I'd stick to an AoE primary or to her exalted weapon (whose spin is great btw but short)

- You play the game for fun, that's great. But then Can we not argue about power creep when that's your mindset then ? Your opinion clearly comes from the weaknesses of your own play style and while I support players who only play for fun your argument doesn't hold up. Like really. "Only 35% for -all- survivability" Just reading it gives me an headache as to where to start. Just get further into the game first.

 

 

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On 2019-02-27 at 6:25 PM, Darth_Nox said:

Now it means Prime > Umbra. And we don`t get another Umbra warframe.

correct, I knew it they will do that doing the snip on the tree branch, well then what the odd possible ppl have umbra forma now using it on their frame?  Highly odds of change to be again, but for sure they are going unleash more umbra mods and people will go after it a lot because sentient war is coming soon its the flipping obvious of the odds fighting bunch of random group of sentiments again for I am pretty sure its 100% we'll be fighting unique sentient type in near future and hopefully we don't get the same mass-produce same product like the sentient now which I would be flipping tables if they pull out the piece of pile of sticks sentient again which it would be nice see a sentient try developed sharp arm weapon try kill players at least or something more useful then lasers as they doing disco dance.

Anyway, umbra forma will exist but people who wanted umbra skins is willing pay money for sure, its time for the communities get their money.

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DeDR3mXWAAAhuxq.jpg:large

 

PRIME/VANILLA /UMBRA

Good day my fellow tenno, I thought I'd bring up some thoughts on the new forma, the state of things ,and some minor recap for those browsing the topic, to stimulate discussions and theories 

 spoiler heavy so please be mindful

-(thank you)

Recap:

Spoiler

Prime : the original warframe units, seemingly tamed after the ten-0 from zariman, due to this can be cloned in mass and created for any tenno to wield uses orokin era parts and has the prime passive to use death orbs as a energy conduit. 1st model is Excalibur prime , these units were hand crafted each and tied to one tenno each before they were able to be mass produced, the founder ten-o all utilize Excalibur prime.

Vanilla: created later based off primes but using lower cost materials to create a close to combat potential mass produced product for ten-o to use during the war , does not require ororkin technology 

Umbra: created as a variant specialized in sentient combat with anti sentient potential , this was the origin of the UMBRA (forma) polarity and is innate within this line and weapons. the original unit of this line Excalibur umbra (subject 9 of the program) has innate AI capability to fight along a Ten-0 once tamed and was able to be cloned and mass produced after the sacrifice quest. Umbras have a unique power to dispel sentient adaption on Excalibur umbra this is radial howl . probably due to innate void energy within umbras that is not present in other variants

The Current State 

At this time warframes are I'll equipped to combat sentient without relying on operators to dispel the adaption 

at this stage of the system , corpus are starting to create sentient hybridized units & technology  , they already are in possession of warframe nullification technology and this further I believe escalates the factions threat level , as we have seen this expansion of units in venus and now they will be coming to Jupiter soon

To the current stage this makes the Umbra unit(s?) we posses a great benefit in combat to help fight these units but that does little to buff our current frames and strength as a united tenno front 

to help us in this we have been given two capabilities to further enhance the primes and vanilla units. which effectively makes them capable of combating sentients 

1:chimera prologue (to the new war) 

 with this stage we have been granted the paracesis aka sentient slayer 

Spoiler

Image result for paracesis wfImage result for ballas warframe

With this weapon even non-UMBRA type frames can now dispel adaptions and applies bonus damage to sentient units, without relying on operators (which being out of a warframe is a vulnerable state) 

this was the signature weapon of ballas granted to us in our fight against the coming new/old war and at this time is the only weapon able to reach rank 40 using 5 formas

2: umbra forma 

Spoiler

350?cb=20190302133445

this new forma type was presented with the addition of the character Nora Night and is a reward from nightwave

this forma applies a Umbra Pol  (umbra) polarity to units allowing them to reduce the cost of Umbra mods

which prior to this forma required a lot of normal (forma) and sacrificing some mods and or slots so frames or weapons could use these mods

PRIMES AND UMBRA(S?):

With the release of this new forma this now brings all other frames up to a comparable level to fight sentient on equal footing in combat if using the sentient slayer & umbra formad frame(s). But as some have stated this can make primes>umbras if playing in the void, which allows primes to innately pull in more power that an umbra is unable to , which was due to the removal of the death orb passive from Excalibur Umbra , and from what was observed many founders and non founders were against that move and petitioned for it to be reversed (it was not) . but given this passive is limited to a specific object  (death orbs) it is rather moot point and a equated out passive that allows Prime =Umbra to be the realistic state of things, as the two are relatively side grades to one another this is how it should be. As it is true Excalibur Umbra has a special AI passive however this was not stated to be the umbra passive in general (this has not been confirmed at this time for the others) , which even though it is a fun passive has its own issues and double edge effects in combat .. due to current AI state

at the present the things that make an umbra frame unique are as follows. 1: innate Umbra polarities 2: sentient debuff ability which greatly reduces the amount of work to get this variant sentient combat prepared. otherwise the two can be seen as parallels (thats just my opinion ) 

 What is to come?:

with the new war on the rise , and a large sentient force and even more so corpus sentient forces on the rise we need this cross comparable power as tactically otherwise we would be to reliant on a single frame. Excalibur Umbra is powerful, however it is not a frame that is applicable to all situations tactically speaking, not to mention the state of its powers being that javelin is rather vestigial and pointless past a certain rank level on enemies.

With this in mind and what we have now been given it further provides the resolve , and justification that we the tenno will require MORE umbra variant frames to help combat the coming threat.

Now you may be wondering at why more umbras is the conclusion to this, it is rather simple, as sinking the amount of effort and forma into not only the frame and the paracesis is greatly time consuming and resource taxing it its not an easy method to develop our own forces for combat against the sentient

granted to get to this current stage, a ten-0 has to have sunk a great deal of time into the game to reach this level. but with that considered the actual qualifications are not that tremendous to reach chimera prologue

  • complete all quests up to chimera
  • Mastery Rank 5 (sedna junction) 
  • mot in void 

Realistically this is not a hard goal to reach, I've attempted this on my new pc account and with time of 3 days, I was able to reach the required stage to complete the sacrifice , thanks to friends and other tenno helping me along the way, which then proved it is rather plausible for newer tenno to reach quickly.

Now Granted I am a veteran player and I already knew all the efficient methods to not only farm and grind and rank up fast , that being said I have witnessed non veteran new players get to this in about a week with effort on their own.

the other factor we have to look at is our community, we are a good community and veterans are often out an about looking to help and guide our newer ten-0 along their journey , steer the course right for them.

that said another thing to consider is that Excalibur Umbra is simply the 1st of his variant type as every Excalibur is, and per devstream 58 (if you can remember all the way back or ..check the OP FAQ ) Sheldon read us a statement stating Umbras and Excalibur umbra would make their way to global. more umbras was always the plan

however it originally was stated this was a "limited" series , given it has been stated "all frames get a prime, not all get an umbra" this however dosnt specify the amount we could technically get 99/100% of frames with an umbra variant, we need more clarification on this from DE, I know [de]Steve has stated he wanted umbras to become its own thing and rightly so it has a functional place within the game  and should be expanded upon. 

Now it took 3+ years to get the sacrifice, while i dont see it requiring...near that much time for the other umbras , but given the state of warframe and the plans for this year its not unthinkable that new umbras will take time and dedication to be brought forth.

Now there is some benefits to the umbra line release as I see it, unlike the Primes , there is no set release order, so theoretically a newer frame can get an umbra variant possibly before the prime variant is released , or even make the more popular frames umbras released to further develop squad dynamics and build variation 

One thought is possibly there will be exploration involved around the new railjack searching for the umbras in various places to rebuild them for combat against the sentient.

another thought to consider is perhaps nora night has some role to play in the emergence of umbras, given that she has and is the source of the new umbra formas. 

given she has some interesting lines, some things a nod to old poets and dark stories, maybe tie in to what we have done

 

whats your thoughts on this tenno ?

~best regards Mako

Image result for tri yin yang

Credits

:art banner(light and shadow) by my friend  @arch111

in-game art : warframe /digital extremes 

A special thanks to the Tenno & friends who assisted me on PC (thank you ! )

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On 2019-02-28 at 9:01 PM, Shelusine said:

1) Yes it appears your setup is really lacking but I can't really advise you in that regard if it doesn't concern spinning. Range oriented spin setup are just... one of the very few viable way to go about melee. The rest, unless you're overly tanky is barely usable except for some special cases.  (which is also why I personally  don't understand its incoming nerf when the issue is the requirement for everything else.)

umm no melee is plenty good without meming at lest after you build combo

On 2019-02-28 at 9:01 PM, Shelusine said:

5) That's a lot of misunderstandings.

-Tank frames can stand still with umbral builds up to T3 sortie level, I do it very often for fun.

- Use a primary, there's a reason why quick melee is considered OP

- Upgrade your amps if you always stay in melee mods, operators are really great at getting rid of nullified nowadays 

depends on the enemies light corrupted and corpus solo no grineer yah sure that is fine as long as there are no heavies.  remember ESO has higher enemy density than normal missions

I am maxing focus gains and twirling spire is more powerful than the bleeding willow quick melee (granted it is not as versatile but it has better AOE and forced procs, multistrike and damage amplification).

the operator is fine as long as the ping is fine otherwise it is not I do use the operator when I am host.   

On 2019-02-28 at 9:01 PM, Shelusine said:

-Your opinion on spinning setups is yours but when you need to slot full umbral on a valkyr to use normal melee there's an issue to begin with and clearly not on the spinning side. Literally if I had to play like you did I wouldn't even melee, I'd stick to an AoE primary or to her exalted weapon (whose spin is great btw but short)

if you need all the power strength in the world to spin then there is a problem with spinning the umbral build has an advantage of 4000  ehp for the cost of 1 forma my point is that your build does less than mine for and only gains the exalis slot.  I run the health so I can just take damage on large maps and simply melee toward the enemy or just jump into the fray.  

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