Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)bombercomfort said:

When do these changes go Live, I was expecting them with the patch a few hours ago.... any dates as yet?

 

Soon, and even more *soon* for consoles.

[Maganar]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:03 PM, [DE]Connor said:

GARA

Mass Vitrify - Wall health scales based on health and shields of the enemies it glasses over.
 

Our latest Warframe Gara is a versatile frame on the cutting glass edge, with a tool for most situations. After recent changes to her Mass Vitrify, the ability is serviceable against most of the star chart, but doesn’t hold up well to higher level content.

While this is tough to showcase in a gif, in practice the wall has gotten stronger because it has covered many enemies in this cast!

 

To help the ability scale better, the health of Mass Vitrify’s wall will increase based on the health and shields of the enemies who are “glassed” by the ability’s cast. This added incentive for letting enemies get close to the objective should add an interesting risk/reward element to Gara’s gameplay.

 

 

Yesssss...

Yes, I like this idea.  Gara's wall has been a bouncy ride to balance.  When it first came out it was blatantly overpowered, and got a much-needed nerf... but that went too far.  The sheer fragility of the wall made it downright unsatisfying in any content where the enemies started to scale damage.  I love using Gara in Sorties because that -90% damage reduction buff is juicy and she's got a great theme, but using her 4 in such content after the nerfs always came across... less than inspiring.

But this?  This is clever.  The destructibility of the wall is now directly tied to the level of the enemies - the higher level the enemies are, the more hp+shields they will have.  The more hp+shields they have, the stronger the wall becomes if you can lure them into your radius.  Therefore, the wall now scales with enemy level to make it appropriately protective for any level of content (at least in theory, we'll have to test it, but this idea is perfect) without being overbearingly indestructible.

Moreover, this continues to add more use cases for Spectrorage.  Pre-nerf, it was completely superfluous.  The wall was so much better at crowd control (by simply physically locking enemies out of the room) that there was no reason to bother casting it in most cases.  Post-nerf, it gained a nice use case as a "wall repair" (by placing one in the place of a shattered panel, you could confuse the enemies in its carousel and still keep them from advancing).  Now, it can also be used to lure enemies into one area so you can use them to boost wall strength in addition to repairing the wall when it finally breaks!  I love this increasing versatility of the ability with its growing synergy to the 4.

Really great idea here.  I hope it translates into the game as-advertised (have to test to see, naturally), but this is really something to look forward to.

[Chaos.Blades]

Already removed Ember from my load outs. She did one thing well but now she will be useless. I could tell DE did not actually believe what they were saying when asked about end game when the question was brought up. She was only ever viable at end game because Firequake activated so far away. Now that is not the case. I've got Rhino, Nezha, Oberon, Mag, Saryn, etc builds that are 98% of what Ember was so I am not even salty just disappointed that DE is not looking at Ember and taking this opportunity to make her viable at end game but instead just concerned about low level baby missions. When I was just starting in Warframe Ember is what really kept me going because it showed me how much more powerful I would become later on.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Chaos.Blades

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

Yes, we definitely disagree on this. I personally thing Mag is a good support frame, but her damage does not scale at all right now. I think these changes are going to make her a good frame, but only time will tell how good she will be. 

Mag is far from a support Frame, let alone a good one at that. The only Support-oriented ability she has is Polarize and that's less than a support ability and more of a low-level room clearer. Pull has "okayish" cc ability that's anti-synergetic with her kit, Magnetize is her buggy damage dealer, (and her only ability that scales well) and Crush is a terrible low damage "nuke". Even her description says she's a "A master of enemy manipulation." She's anything but a support Frame. More of a damage/cc hybrid (though not a very good one), but leaning more to the damage side.

[schilds]

Mag excels at long distance nukes. It really only becomes obvious on the plains.

Edited February 6, 2018 by schilds

[phoenix1992]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

You just said she can't do damage, now you're saying she can. I'm not sure what's your point of view any more. All I'm saying is that she was missing damage dealing before imo, which this update might actually medicate. Of course I would have to see the math first, but a percentage of the armor + a percentage of the damage dealt to the target has a very good chance of turning Mag from a support frame to an overall good frame. 

You want to suggest increasing the effectiveness of shield polarize? Cool I'm down with that, but it doesn't mean she needs it at the moment. At least not for me. 

You know what - I don't think you are a bad person.
But you are a misinformed person, and I am tired of this mentality "Since I can't do it, no one can do it".

Mag is currently, pre buff, pre weapon buff as well - one of the few frames that can reliable hit damage cap. Just because it does not have the buzzword "scale" which for some reason is used almost as "DE",  does not make any difference when you are more than able to white the Star Chart, Sorties and land smack down in the 1k+ level range for endurance run.

Lil' miss Mag is as much a "support" as is Ember "DPS" - sure, you can mod for it, but is not even remotely efficient,

PS: I think you were semi baited by another forum user, and I am sorry if this is the case.

Edited February 6, 2018 by phoenix1992

[jesusdh]

Since we're talking about Warframe re-revisited, here's my feedback and suggestions about the changes and other things: 

WARNING: LONG POST!

 

 

 

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

20 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

You know what - I don't think you are a bad person.
But you are a misinformed person, and I am tired of this mentality "Since I can't do it, no one can do it".

Mag is currently, pre buff, pre weapon buff as well - one of the few frames that can reliable hit damage cap. Just because it does not have the buzzword "scale" which for some reason is used almost as "DE",  does not make any difference when you are more than able to white the Star Chart, Sorties and land smack down in the 1k+ level range for endurance run.

Lil' miss Mag is as much a "support" as is Ember "DPS" - sure, you can mod for it, but is not even remotely efficient,

PS: I think you were semi baited by another forum user, and I am sorry if this is the case.

Perhaps there's a little of "Since I can't do it, no one can do it" on my part and if that's the case I apologize as that is not my intention. I merely described how I've played Mag in the past and what I think her strengths are. She builds shields and allows for massive damage to be caused by your weapon and others, but her power don't deal (in my experience) enough damage to be considered an offensive frame. She does things that allow face-melting, but doesn't do the face melting with her power and that's what I mean by support. 

As far as the bait. There was none @(Xbox One)NeutralSilence and I were just having a nice discussions from two different prospective. No malice, but maybe a little rustiness on my part. 

[UrielColtan]

21 hours ago, Nariala said:

"World on fire is too strong"

Atterax/Scoliac +  Maiming strike exists.

Pick one balance team.   These design changes feel from the hip yet again.  

 

Two weapons and a rare mod you can't even consistently get, and of which is pretty lackluster without yet another mod you can't farm consistently through the year and is pretty underwhelming without a few other complimentary mods like, Primed Reach, Berserk or Primed Fury, Primed Pressure Point (3 mods of which you also can't farm), to come even close to resembling map clearing antics of an AOE ability that does not even require inputs. Maiming strike itself can't do anything, it needs the compliments of other rare/unfarmable mods. And on top of that they need status increase mods.

Don't give DE other nerfing ideas just because of the Ember thing. Give better suggestions for improvement.

Edited February 7, 2018 by UrielColtan

[OkamiThorac]

nooooo don't ruin baeframes world on fire :c (baeframe=ember)

 

[main_antagonist]

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

ASH

Bladestorm - Upon activating Bladestorm, Ash’s clones will do the stabbing, leaving the player free to act. Ash can choose to join in the execution by using Teleport on a marked enemy.

Consider adding to this by also allowing us to teleport to a shadow clone, if the clone kills the target before we can teleport it could become frustrating!

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

ATLAS

Rubble (new mechanic) - Comes from killing petrified enemies. Atlas collects rubble to restore his health, or temporarily increase armor if already at max health.

Sounds good hopefully we get an augment to let it stack without a time limit, This would be balanced because you have to sacrifice a mod slot for an augment in the future.
 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

CHROMA

Spectral Scream - Removed walk speed and jump restrictions You can now freely move while this is active! Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus!

Hold to toggle element when???

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

GARA

Mass Vitrify - Wall health scales based on health and shields of the enemies it glasses over.

Hey that's pretty good.

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

BANSHEE

Resonating Quake (augment) - Upon cast, places a Quake that does not require channeling to maintain, meaning Banshee can move freely. Has a short duration, and does not move with the player. Has double the range of a regular Soundquake, but does more damage near the center.

Finally! AFKing was getting out of control.

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

EMBER

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.

Remove the energy cost and I'm on board with this change.

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

MAG

Polarize - Shards created by Polarize now scale based on power strength, as well as the percentage of damage done to that specific enemy.

So does it scale with Strength alone? Or does it Scale with Strength and their calculated level + shields/armour.

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

VOLT

Discharge - Removed the damage cap. Increased base damage output from 750 to 1200. Damage and stun duration are halved for enemies further away from Volt (affected by Mods).

That's fair.

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 5:03 AM, [DE]Connor said:

ZEPHYR

Some of Zephyr's abilities are cheaper to cast while airborne - details in progress.

Tail Wind - Combined into a single ability with Dive Bomb. Can be charge cast on the ground, launching Zephyr into the air where she then hovers. In the air, Tail Wind still flies in whatever direction you’re looking, and Dive Bomb activates if cast while looking straight down.

Air Burst - New ability replacing Dive Bomb. A projectile that causes an AoE burst on contact, ragdolling enemies. Can be fired into Tornadoes to make them bigger.

Tornado - Now spawn where player is aiming and can be steered. The closest tornado will move to your aimpoint, meaning you can move them around. Tornado damage type now determined by largest amount of elemental damage absorbed, instead of last type absorbed. Tornadoes do a better job of keeping enemies captured, and shooting Tornadoes will do damage to enemies trapped inside.

Awesome.

 

@[DE]Connor Will DE be considering the feedback from this topic???

[phoenix1992]

8 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Two weapons and a rare mod you can't even consistently get, and of which is pretty lackluster without yet another mod you can't farm consistently through the year and is pretty underwhelming without a few other complimentary mods like Primed Reach, Berserk or Primed Fury (2 mods of which you also can't farm), to come even close to resembling map clearing antics of an AOE ability that does not even require inputs. Maiming strike itself can't do anything, it needs the compliments of other rare/unfarmable mods.

Don't give DE other nerfing ideas just because of the Ember thing. Give better suggestions for improvement.

Uriel, please.

You don't need Maiming strike or Primed Fury for Atterax in order for it to behave like a cancer and painting an "atterax did nuffing wrong" does not give you any honor.
 

[taiiat]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:03 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

wait hang on a second i didn't read this before - but.... other Abilities literally AREN'T like that. Abilities that apply Damage Multipliers literally just Multiply your Damage.

the problem with Chroma is Multiplying numerous times, not that it Multiplies at all. whatever other Damage Multiplying Ability is a final Multiplier, Rift Torrent is an OUTLIER and is what makes it kind've terrible (because to get a relevant Bonus you need to have almost the entire map affected at once - a 1000% Rift Torrent Bonus is only ~3x Damage. meaning if you have a normal number of Enemies affected, you get like 50% extra Damage which is not a lot most definitely considering the effort and risk it takes to get the Bonus).
Damage Multiplying Abilities are Multiplicative in nature as a whole, and any that isn't, simply ends up being inferior. they all shouldn't be Additive either though, because that would mean they would all become mostly ineffective and give terrible Damage increases.

i'm assuming this is just a typo/'translation error', considering that isn't how those Abilities work currently. if it isn't though, Vex Armor simply won't give a Damage Bonus anymore, only Armor. that would be the end result in gameplay.

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

43 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

You know what - I don't think you are a bad person.
But you are a misinformed person, and I am tired of this mentality "Since I can't do it, no one can do it".

Mag is currently, pre buff, pre weapon buff as well - one of the few frames that can reliable hit damage cap. Just because it does not have the buzzword "scale" which for some reason is used almost as "DE",  does not make any difference when you are more than able to white the Star Chart, Sorties and land smack down in the 1k+ level range for endurance run.

Lil' miss Mag is as much a "support" as is Ember "DPS" - sure, you can mod for it, but is not even remotely efficient,

PS: I think you were semi baited by another forum user, and I am sorry if this is the case.

I'm not trying to start anything, but you could've just said me. I wouldn't have taken any offense to it. I'm just trying to make sure the chance we have for Mag to get "reworked " isn't wasted again like the last time. Cause after this I doubt she'd be getting anything else at least until Mag Umbra comes out. 

[phoenix1992]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

I'm not trying to start anything, but you could've just said me. I wouldn't have taken any offense to it. I'm just trying to make sure the chance we have for Mag to get "reworked " isn't wasted again like the last time. Cause after this I doubt she'd be getting anything else at least until Mag Umbra comes out. 

I did not *see* it was you, due to the simple fact that... no offense, but this topic is flooded.

Considering "starting anything " - same as toward Regiampiero - please consider that Mag already is on a breaking point and does ludicrous amount of gear damage, those buffs will clean up some of the negatives, but asking for more is also inviting for Nerfs.

(And she is among Frames like Nekros and Harrow that are also as strong as the loadout is).

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

So let me get this straight. Not only are you going to nerf Ember, you're going ahead with it this week with the new Shrine of the Eidolon update you're hoping to roll out. 

I really hope you comb through all of the feedback and make changes before this comes to the console version because what you've proposed is utterly bad. 

[UrielColtan]

32 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Uriel, please.

You don't need Maiming strike or Primed Fury for Atterax in order for it to behave like a cancer and painting an "atterax did nuffing wrong" does not give you any honor.
 

"Cancer"

Dramatic. And if you don't need maiming strike then that argument is thankfully dead and buried.

Honor? I don't seek validation from you, and if we are just talkoing about nerfing Atterax then that will hardly effect me personally, its one of my least used weapons afterall. I dsagree though, Atterax is pretty underwhelming without particular mods, otherwise the Focus Farming tests i've done would have been much less of an annoyance without particular mods on those mere 2 weapons.  Even a Savage silenced and stealth strike did not put an enemy down or make the mission complete in a more timely fashion without the right loadout, of which not everyone has, let alone the right frames to compensate for any lack of a particular mod. The mentality of "I have the meta loadout, therefore everyone has it", needs to end.

Edited February 7, 2018 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)Anfffy]

On 03/02/2018 at 6:05 PM, King_drex666 said:

Even with an armor buff she will most likely be one shot after 100+ enemies

Ye I kind of agree if we have to mod for extra range and extra efficiency now for what used to be a normal build it leaves little room for health mods making her way to squishy on even higher star chart missions.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, UrielColtan said:

"Cancer"

Dramatic. And if you don't need maiming strike then that argument is thankfully dead and buried.

Honor? I don't seek validation from you, and if we are just talkoing about nerfing Atterax then that will hardly effect me personally, its one of my least used weapons afterall. I dsagree thpugh, Atterax is pretty underwhelming without particular mods, otherwise the Focus Farming tests i've done would have been much less of an annoyance without those particular mods on those mere 2 weapons.  Even a Savage silenced and Sonar strike did not put an enemy down down without the right load out, of which not everyone has, let alone the right frames to compensate for any lack of a particular mod. The mentality of "I have the meta loadout, therefore everyone has it", needs to end.

And I don't seek theory crafting on how or why atterax works.

Do mind that it is not used because it is *good* weapon, it is used because it is *easy* (something to do with big and fast weapons raking up big combo stacks, but I am sure you are well aware of that), so from then on your rant for Focus Farming or other builds is really unnecessary.   Your accusation  for meta also falls on deaf years and I am pretty sure you could go and check why.

[Zilotz]

On 02.02.2018 at 10:05 PM, GoldenGrey said:

THANKS... Hyped for Volt ...

I wonder how Ember will perform now.Give BARO a primed Streamline to cope up with increased energy cost at max charge.

And primed Stretch too to compensate range loss 

[Azara.]

Im not here to whine and moan about the Ember changes, because I dont play her that often (2.6% playtime in the 789+ in mission hours of play) . But I feel the need to point out that for those of us who dont run max range Embers (mines a 115% range) that range being halved is INCREDIBLY painful for players such as myself. If possible, maybe have it be so that certain ranges will recieve certain range reductions.

Example, anything below 150% range is only reduced by a third or quarter, which would let non max range embers still have a useable build without crippling their WoF. And for anything above 150% range, its halved.

Because as is currently proposed, if i were to run my ember build I would have 58% range at max reduction. Or in actual game meters, 8.5 meters. Versus the max range embers that this change is meant to deal with, still having a range of 18 meters at max reduction. Honestly, seeing what this does to my builds just pushes me even further away from wanting to play her. I genuinely feel this isnt fixing the problem, its a minor inconvience at most for the max range embers and a devasting blow for the non max range players.

The rest of the changes for the other Frames im looking forward to. Its nice to see my rocky one punch boi getting some love.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Azara.

[UrielColtan]

15 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

And I don't seek theory crafting on how or why atterax works.

Do mind that it is not used because it is *good* weapon, it is used because it is *easy* (something to do with big and fast weapons raking up big combo stacks, but I am sure you are well aware of that), so from then on your rant for Focus Farming or other builds is really unnecessary.   Your accusation  for meta also falls on deaf years and I am pretty sure you could go and check why.

Not seeing your point, building up combo multipliers is a necessity of melee, and still just one part of the package, which reminds me to bring up the likes of Drifting Contact.

Your logic seems to just be that the best melee in the game, is "lazy". There will always be a best though. This logic is otherwise racing to the bottom. 

You don't care about "meta". Nah, you are just changing the word to " "lazy" instead, while making the same typical argument.

[Zilotz]

@Azara. I have non-max range too, 175 is sweet spot where you don't get shot by mobs becuse they burn from WoF. 

[phoenix1992]

7 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Not seeing your point, building up combo multipliers is a necessity of melee, and still just one part of the package, which reminds me to bring up the likes of Drifting Contact.

Your logic seems to just be that the best melee in the game, is "lazy". There will always be a best though. This logic is otherwise racing to the bottom. 

You don't care about "meta". Nah, you are just changing the word to " "lazy" instead, while making the same typical argument.

Uriel, you prove yet again that you can run a political career with your slick abilities of changing the context and cherry picking information.

If you can not comprehend why people ask why is a MR 4 melee (aka no ammo or energy required) weapon that has high range (higher than WoF for reference), almost no build costs (next to other weapons in the meta) and used with a macro in order to delete enemies all the way up to sorties is allowed (and abused), yet some AoE frames are getting nerfed - by all means, it is your personal freedom to misplace "it feels okay" with "it is okay"
 

Edited February 7, 2018 by phoenix1992

[ChromaUmbra]

11 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

So... you are losing just enough hitpoints to fuel fury while being sturdy enough to take a few more punches. It's not a threat, but a fine balance, if you ask me, between taking shields damage followed by health damage. Shield damage will boost your survivability and then, the little damage you take to your health will unleash all the dragons!

Even under constant bombards' fire you should be just fine, considering most other squishy frames with far less damage reduction can take a punch or 3. so it's a relatively great nerf compared to the previous version of Chroma? yes. Was it mention that Vex is not functioning as intended? yes. Is the new Chroma keeping tanking capabilities. yes. Were some people banking on the fact that Chroma will never get fixed? yes.

 

Aham. so both values will be higher then, not just the pre-"nerf", right? I mean, post-"nerf" the elemental ward will take armor away from Chroma? :D

PS: Factoring in maxed EW for Chroma would lead to an insane 99%+ damage reduction. That's just broken! :D

 

Edit: I just had an epiphany!

With the damage reduction ner, one can no longer zarr/kulstar themselves into the peaks of damage boosts within seconds, because they might actually kill themselves! When you're talking about survivability, you're not afraid of the enemies, but yourselves! :D

That doesn't change the fact that his tanking capabilities will be worse than any other tank frame after this.  And no, I'm not afraid of myself.  I don't use either of those weapons because self-damage isn't how I like to play.  If the self damage is the problem, why not remove that instead to avoid screwing over those who don't use it?