[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[PraetorGix]

hace 7 horas, Madway7 dijo:

To me it means they are taking more time to think about the changes and actually consider what was said here rather than just gloss over everything once and make some changes as soon as possible.

 

 

Nice thinking in that optimistic way but if they could "gloss over" Danse Macabre in a hotfix they very well could have done the same in this scheduled update to, at the very least bring it back to where it was. Then they can take all the time they need to tweak to their heart's content. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by PraetorGix

[rmseka]

If you hate the synergy of Danse macabre + Rage + Reave, just make it won’t use Reave when toggle Danse macabre, not to burn out crazy energy to toggle Danse macabre.

That crazy reaction only drive us to use Rage or Adrenaline, and this completely against to free modding.

Do you understand? You make Revenant can’t be used without Rage!

Is this the best? Really you believe the 40 energy per sec is your best reaction??

There were some updates recently. So the 40/sec is your best answer?

[Madway7]

1 hour ago, PraetorGix said:

Nice thinking in that optimistic way but if they could "gloss over" Danse Macabre in a hotfix they very well could have done the same in this scheduled update to, at the very least bring it back to where it was. Then they can take all the time they need to tweak to their heart's content. 

I suppose they could have, but they do have a tendency to ignore changing anything until they agree on everything they want to change.

Seeing what they did in the first change makes me think that they don't want Dance Macabre to work the way it is at all. And what we got was a rushed ability with some goofy aspects to it.

For now I'm trying my best to be optimistic. If the next set of changes are bad I will likely go back to being bitter.

[(XBOX)OneOmniverse]

logged into warframe and seen the update in cert on the screen as usual when new updates come out. the sad part is I completely dismissed it this time I wonder why  🤔😕hopefully the changes that have been suggested for the better are implemented I mean saving 325 maybe even, more for the bundle  plat is always a good thing if it doesn't turn out to have changed for the better 👍

Edited September 7, 2018 by (XB1)IStudioGhibliI

[VieuxPappy]

Le 04/09/2018 à 19:53, nokturnihs a dit :

I already edited my feedback throughout the entire thread. You are right I'm incredibly sensitive about being questioned for my intelligence because of my past, the disabilities I've overcome and the fact that my livelihood is made because of my intelligence and capabilities as an IT professional and Developer. I was being melodramatic and off topic. 

I have done my own testing and had differing results but we were obviously playing with different builds, play styles and things like Arcanes that obviously changed those outcomes. I built him more around his 2 with guardian derision and arcane guardian and grace and it quite effectively for CC. 

I  have edited the reply you quoted to try and worked to resolve my failings in the topic thread. I do admit that I was insulted by your tone because it frankly wasn't helpful and was rude. I don't understand why it was necessary or what prompted you to believe it would produce any kind of merit to the feedback thread or my response. I had edited my feedback BEFORE your reply so please don't assume your latest response had anything to do with that.

I'm going to work to be more effective at providing on-topic useful feedback to the developers and stop inappropriately directing my commentary to the community.

I will also append that the initial thread you replied to, where your tone upset me was due to similar insults from a previous user and my feedback was colored badly and soured by my outrage, thus I removed it. 

Respect to you, and sorry to hear about your hardships. 

[Jalen1104]

On 2018-09-06 at 5:23 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

i was reading what i wrote and thought to myself while these abilities are great at distraction they are kind of bland in that. ive been playing warframe for too long lol. some spice could be added. i think not having shadows of the dead deal killing type damage makes it so people dont rely on it. a problem ive seen steadily increase with time is that people have become to reliant on powers.

Edit: one thing i actually like about destiny 2 is that you cannot rely on the guardian powers. thats where it ends though. gameplay is good but everything else is bad lol

I agree that with you there. Shadows doing all the killing would take it out of your hands but I think that disappears for endurance runs where I think it's the most fun. With that being said I guess I would also be contradicting my playstyle since they never scale well into endgame. So if you haven't already maybe try getting into that if you havent already. Yoir weapons really carry you and your abilities can compliment them if you pick a good frame (volts a really good one actually).

To tie it all in back to the original point of this thread id like to also see some scaling for rev into endurance content. Contrary to my original post I actually think his first ability is pretty good for that especially with his radioactive weapon for that extra CC. Reave with natural talent also does pretty well but his other two abilities leave something heavely to be desired. His fourth especially with just get you murdered past level 80 and the damage isn't conparable AT ALL to Mesa's.

[sorcer3r]

Friendly Warframes should not be able to kill thralls. Only friendly operators should be able to do this.

[Zahnny]

I've been thinking of Revenant, my problems and problems I think others have with him and how I think they can be addressed/changed in more or less reasonable ways.

I'm a big lover of games in which you have armies (red alert type) or just a small supply of minions (Overlord) to mess around with to do your bidding, so I would have thought Revenant might have become my new main but like many others agree, his power fantasy falls short and people quickly realised his best ability is his 4th. I believe his 4th should be more or less an emergancy ability kinda like Rhino's 4th, it's there if you need it but shouldn't be considered a frequently casted ability.

The biggest problem is his thralls. Teammates can kill them within seconds and they don't really do much besides follow you around unless you pick specific enemies to enthrall like an ancient or shield osprey which are faction specific. Another concern I've had but not got around to testing is the idea he's a bad pick for Defense as thralls might prevent the next wave from starting.

Perhaps his minions need friendly fire invulnerability like Nyx's 1st (storing damage but not taking it until it runs out) or at least a nerfed down version of it. Nothing more annoying than making a thrall only to die within a second. Alternatively thralls killed by teammates might drop something that awards the Revenant such as energy orbs equal to power used.

 

Regardless, here's where I want to get into how I really think his thralls should change.

I believe his thralls need to recieve buffs while under his control, even the low tier grunt enemies like grineer butchers should recieve something worth having. I'm not going to say they should oneshot lvl 150 corrupted gunners because I think that's stupid.

My idea is to add something like Ivara's Quiver or Vauban's balls, except instead of changing the ability it would instead focus on changing the state that your enthralls use.

1. A simple defending/hold ground mode

While in this state, thralls (who can) will seek cover if possible and try to hold down the area, defensive area is "chosen" based on where your Revenant is upon engaging this mode.

Thralls in cover will recieve a damage reduction or enemy accuracy decrease and a very minor health regen, will fire at enemies from around cover and attempt to throw grenades

Thralls without cover will have slightly increased health (10%, 20%) based on power strength and increased enemy detection/reaction time (think of it like rambo)

If the defending area has an alarm console nearby and an active alarm/lockdown thralls may attempt to hack it (similarly to Nekro's shadows of the dead as I've seen them do this)

Faction specific enemies like grineer will attempt to board Rampants if possible

This is ideally meant as more of a suppression mode

2. Following

Thralls will follow Revenant, this mode will be considered the most "cannon fodder" mode, enemies are less likely to target Revenant and if they do will instead aim at his thralls.

Thralls will recieve an aim penalty if moving while firing.

3. Patrol

Thralls will act more like enemy AI, wandering around and doing their own thing while during combat.

If no alarms are raised and enemies aren't alerted they can freely walk past non-enthralled enemies and not raise any suspision (this would give a fun mode for stealth gameplay), if the player or another ally is detected nearby thralls won't be and will attempt to stay icognito, if close enough to an alerted enemy they may attempt to enthrall them through non-loud means such as a gun bash or hack the alarms but can be spotted while doing so revealing all thralls to the enemy.

This mode might be considered the default state when jumping into a mission with Revenant

Even in combat some thralls may attempt to hack the alarms while in this state.

4. Berserk/Reckless

In this mode Revenant memetically fills thralls with adrenaline.

Thralls will be seen running/sprinting at the enemy

Thralls will abandon all regard for their own safety, increasing combat skills such as reload speed, fire rate and walk/run speed or attack speed if they are melee oriented, they may even throw grenades while running

This will push thralls to their biological limits, even if not taking damage they will slowly lose health due to exerting their bodies.

Thralls cannot be disengaged from this mode, once activated this will be a thralls permanent state until death, but the mode can be switched out to another and convert more thralls to a different state while this is still active, the thralls currently berserking however cannot be changed.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Zahnny
Edited title to be more appealing

[Hixlysss]

5 hours ago, sorcer3r said:

Friendly Warframes should not be able to kill thralls. Only friendly operators should be able to do this.

This...this is a good point. Thralls should poof into a spectral form when dealt enough damage, if they are in spectral form when the duration ends...they die, unless someone goes operator mode and kills them(if they die this way they should also drop the overshield charge by the way). Also, the thrall pillar damage should be X+%HP, and maybe make it into a pulse(Like the eidolon roar). The basic idea is...Thralls die too fast(mainly due to team mates) So I never get to make use of the overshield charge they die from Danse Macabre.

Also, Reave needs...a lot of work. First off, why am I taking damage while I'm a cloud of mist? Secondly, why am I getting such a low amount of HP back...(Wiki stats its 8% per enemy) and IMO Reave should be "Does X damage+%EnemyHP to enemy, Restores X% HP and Shields" instead of needing an enemy to have shields to restore them and if you do it on a thrall you then get Energy.

Finally...Given the recent Nezha change, I'm going to propose that Mesmer Skin gets reworked to function similarly. % damage reduction for X duration(Refresh duration by using Reave) instead of being charged base. Keep the immunity to procs and the stun, ect, but just remove the charges for a pure duration time and have Reave refresh the duration. Why do this? Cause so long you keep mesmer skin up you never have to use reave. You can out right ignore it.

Danse Macabre is...fine, aside from not understanding what range does on it.

[Jimbo_Baggins]

All I know is that I absolutely hate it when other players jet around hacking down my thralls. I would really appreciate it if the thralls were made to be invincible to friendly fire. Otherwise I like your idea and I think it would be helpful to make the thralls more controllable than what they currently are. 

[axellex]

All of your suggestions are tied to AI, why does the AI in the game not have all these features in the first place? Why do they all just walk down corridors in kongalines?

If it's not obvious enough it's because AI is very barren in this game and probably wont ever see any improvements since everything dies in less than a second why bother having intricate AI, and before they they improve allied minions in this game they should improve cats and dogs because their AI is just as braindead as enemy AI.

[Leqesai]

On 2018-09-07 at 4:47 AM, rmseka said:

If you hate the synergy of Danse macabre + Rage + Reave, just make it won’t use Reave when toggle Danse macabre, not to burn out crazy energy to toggle Danse macabre.

That crazy reaction only drive us to use Rage or Adrenaline, and this completely against to free modding.

Do you understand? You make Revenant can’t be used without Rage!

Is this the best? Really you believe the 40 energy per sec is your best reaction??

There were some updates recently. So the 40/sec is your best answer?

Rage or adrenaline on revenant is completely wrong thinking If you plan on using him as intended... 

Rage only gives energy when taking health damage. His kit pushes shields and mesmer is a straight up invincible protection.

For the love of god don't butcher your builds by putting rage on revenant...

[xeal209]

Now that I've had some time to use Revenant a bit more, I figure I'll come here and give my thoughts about his kit.

His 1... there's nothing wrong with the ability I think, it just ends up being useless because team mates are often not using their brains or just don't give a crap and usually die before you get to do anything at all with them. Like Nyx's 1, I think they should not be allowed to be damaged by players, or at least your team mates and that would probably solve every problem this ability has aside from not being able to recast it and reset the timer. Suddenly losing my army after a bit is annoying but I guess it's not a huge problem and slightly differentiates him from Nekros who can repeatedly recast and keep the same army of eximus units for ever and ever.

His 2... I honestly hate having charges because it just gets completely wasted whenever enough crap is going on and then you just melt anyway. If you absolutely must keep the charges, I suggest swapping the energy cost with that of his 3 and make it recast-able. At least then I don't have to worry as much about jumping into a cluster of enemies for a fat danse macabre, only to realize I have 2 charges left.

His 3... Totally useless aside from getting around faster while channeling his 4. I honestly can't think about how to fix this besides just giving him something entirely different. Perhaps it can give some sort of debuff to affected enemies and/or strip armor or something? And if that's the case, perhaps allow the width to be affected by range.

His 4... This is pretty strong, completely rips enemies apart, the thing is its functionality is limited. It claims to have a 50 meter radius but it sure in heck doesn't feel like it. Seems more like it has an effective radius of like 10 or 15 meters. On top of that, you almost have to be completely level with the enemy to hit them. Now I'll skip the animation part where you make a vengeful ghost/vampire do ballet and just say that if he REALLY needs to be a beyblade, we should at least be able to aim the beams up and down to some degree, perhaps modified by range. Because lets be real. what in the origin system does beam width actually do besides look better that it's actually a labeled stat we can mod?

On the contrary, this would probably end up making him a decent DPS, tank, and support... oh wait, Rhino and Chroma. Well I guess it's not too big a problem then.

[Leqesai]

49 minutes ago, xeal209 said:

Now that I've had some time to use Revenant a bit more, I figure I'll come here and give my thoughts about his kit.

His 1... there's nothing wrong with the ability I think, it just ends up being useless because team mates are often not using their brains or just don't give a crap and usually die before you get to do anything at all with them. Like Nyx's 1, I think they should not be allowed to be damaged by players, or at least your team mates and that would probably solve every problem this ability has aside from not being able to recast it and reset the timer. Suddenly losing my army after a bit is annoying but I guess it's not a huge problem and slightly differentiates him from Nekros who can repeatedly recast and keep the same army of eximus units for ever and ever.

His 2... I honestly hate having charges because it just gets completely wasted whenever enough crap is going on and then you just melt anyway. If you absolutely must keep the charges, I suggest swapping the energy cost with that of his 3 and make it recast-able. At least then I don't have to worry as much about jumping into a cluster of enemies for a fat danse macabre, only to realize I have 2 charges left.

His 3... Totally useless aside from getting around faster while channeling his 4. I honestly can't think about how to fix this besides just giving him something entirely different. Perhaps it can give some sort of debuff to affected enemies and/or strip armor or something? And if that's the case, perhaps allow the width to be affected by range.

His 4... This is pretty strong, completely rips enemies apart, the thing is its functionality is limited. It claims to have a 50 meter radius but it sure in heck doesn't feel like it. Seems more like it has an effective radius of like 10 or 15 meters. On top of that, you almost have to be completely level with the enemy to hit them. Now I'll skip the animation part where you make a vengeful ghost/vampire do ballet and just say that if he REALLY needs to be a beyblade, we should at least be able to aim the beams up and down to some degree, perhaps modified by range. Because lets be real. what in the origin system does beam width actually do besides look better that it's actually a labeled stat we can mod?

On the contrary, this would probably end up making him a decent DPS, tank, and support... oh wait, Rhino and Chroma. Well I guess it's not too big a problem then.

The range of 50m is completely accurate. But the closer you are to the enemies the faster they take damage due to how circles work. 

[Ikusias]

I've leveled Revenant completely and played around a bit with builds... and found myself forced to go for efficency +duration mainly due to the proibitive cost of it's ultimate.

Passive: so far no idea of what it does, don't think it had any visible utility for me.

#1 Thralls: fun in single player, they melt like an icecone otherwise, also too stupid, they start usually running back and forth instead of attacking.

                 Enthralling enemies damaged by the thralls themselves is fun, pity that 90% of the time you find the power locked because the moronic AI 7 tiles back maxed the number of

                 slaves locking the power! would work much better like current Saryn's sphores considering how useless thralls are for damage....

#2 Mesmer Skin: would be very nice if it wasn't that:

                 noticing stunned enemies ready for free enthralling amid the chaos in a full group is factually impossible, and the target is being murdered the moment you notice it...

                 charges mechanic works really badly with the mass of attacks you receive, with the added insult of ofthen remaining stubbornly locked at one charge and then letting you to

                 die like an idiot because you can't refresh it until all charges are expended (unlike health conversion that's got a grace period of 3 seconds between losing stacks)

#3 Reave: thansk for the small mercy of the new animation, it was really horrid before, still too damn expensive for what it does and generally not user friendly.

                 recovery per enemy hit is mediocre, maneuverability is mediocre as well (and it copypastes Hydroid's Tidal Wave without the sinergy with his pool form)

                 you're vulnerable during it's activatin delay and during movement and it depends for actual recovery on hitting one of the 7! thralls that usually die in 2,5 seconds...

#4 Danse Macabre: really dislike the animation, it feels like it was an aftertought, cost is crazy to mitigate spamming, pity that mesa's ultimate is both more effective and much cheaper...

                A better way would have been the increasing energy cost of Banshee's old Resonating Quake augment or current Valkyr's "Hysteria".

                Also if DE didn't want prolonged spam of the power why the Heck did they implement it like this?!

 

Still it's since Saryn Rework that it seems that they are all over the place when implementing or reworking frames... Khora is a patchwork of unoriginal powers from other frames and a disfunctional inerent pet, Revenant isn't fit to work in a squad at all, Saryn reworked is even a worse offender than her 2nd incarnation at the expense of good sense and power interactivity - and stil breaks Elite Onslaught without even trying - while being a chore to play anywere else

[rmseka]

Revenant just has stupid skill set cuase of crazy energy nerf. I told this several times and there are some updates and hot fixes, but his ridiculous skill set had no changed.

If you want force to use the Rage on Revenant for Danse, what is the reason Mesmer still exist?? It is just useless when we use Rage. How idiot?

Just make it impossible to use Reave when toggle Danse, not to make Danse burn out crazy amount of energy.

Additionaly, what’s the purpose to make Danse to have irritating toggle sprint?? Just make it possible to sprint durring hold Danse.

Edited September 9, 2018 by rmseka

[Excaliber-Omega]

Glitch is simple, use Danse Macabre while having shade. Shade will use it's invisibility skill and make the whole frame go missing. Hope this will get fixed.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

there is a known bug, when you use prisma shade, after being invisible, the frame become sometimes headless

 

[Excaliber-Omega]

Yeah there is but with this glitch, the entire frame is just gone.

[seprent]

shade is practicing his magic act 

[Excaliber-Omega]

17 minutes ago, seprent said:

shade is practicing his magic act 

I know but It's kind of difficult to keep track.

[Zyneris]

This actually happens with Octavia's invis as well lol.

[Maksim3205]

i think danse macabre should make revenant invulnerable because of his damage absorb thing

[Nazrethim]

hace 10 horas, (XB1)Oussii dijo:

there is a known bug, when you use prisma shade, after being invisible, the frame become sometimes headless

 

That happens if you are aiming trough a scope, like a Sniper or Scanner, when the invisibility breaks. It also happens with other invisibility powers.

[(XBOX)OneOmniverse]

7 thralls seems a bit lacking, and why in the hell is the ultimate 20 energy per second wtf that's crazy seriously