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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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The main issue with this frame is that the implementation has nothing to do with the concept. The concept is absolutely amazing (a warframe with eidolon powers!?!?), but the abilities have nothing to do with that idea. Here's some thoughts.

Ability 1 = Minions have nothing to do with eidolons. If you do want something minion based, have the warframe create vomatalysts, or transform enemies into vomatalysts.

Ability 2 = Eidolons have tough skin, but they don't redirect damage or stun things. This ability doesn't "feel" like an eidolon power. Perhaps something like regaining your shields (like how eidolons do).

Ability 3 = Eidolons also do not dash (they barely move at all!). Also, this move seems plain useless in general (50 shields? Is that a joke?).

Ability 4 = Arguably the only ability that is actually kind of like an eidolon. I just think the visuals and sound effects should be similar to eidolons, so that the "feel" of the frame makes you feel like you're an eidolon a bit.

The eidolons have a huge AOE attack that does knockback and takes out your shields. This should totally be a Revenant ability (with the same sound effect and visuals too, so it "feels" like an eidolon power).

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Revenants 4th ability blinding my screen and my eye sockets, making me unable to enjoy and play the game effectively as I can't actually see anything due to revenants strobe effect as his lasers spread out everywhere and when you are near him that's all you see and it gets so frustratingly annoying as it just gets in the way... is there any way you can make it invisible to other players so that we don't get blinded, cause its really annoying.... thanks for any help

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29 minutes ago, Teleology said:

The main issue with this frame is that the implementation has nothing to do with the concept. The concept is absolutely amazing (a warframe with eidolon powers!?!?), but the abilities have nothing to do with that idea. Here's some thoughts.

Ability 1 = Minions have nothing to do with eidolons. If you do want something minion based, have the warframe create vomatalysts, or transform enemies into vomatalysts.

Ability 2 = Eidolons have tough skin, but they don't redirect damage or stun things. This ability doesn't "feel" like an eidolon power. Perhaps something like regaining your shields (like how eidolons do).

Ability 3 = Eidolons also do not dash (they barely move at all!). Also, this move seems plain useless in general (50 shields? Is that a joke?).

Ability 4 = Arguably the only ability that is actually kind of like an eidolon. I just think the visuals and sound effects should be similar to eidolons, so that the "feel" of the frame makes you feel like you're an eidolon a bit.

The eidolons have a huge AOE attack that does knockback and takes out your shields. This should totally be a Revenant ability (with the same sound effect and visuals too, so it "feels" like an eidolon power).

vomvalyst are sentients. eidolons are sentients. Reave does the same type of charge vomvalyst do. DM does the same type of attack battalyst do which are also sentients. a shield stripping AOE does nothing to infested and grineer and would be much worse of an attack than anything he has currently. i think you are confused.

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31 minutes ago, Teleology said:

Eidolons do not dash (they barely move at all!). Also, this move seems plain useless in general (50 shields? Is that a joke?).

 

Vomvalysts are Eidolons. Reave is inspired by the Vomvalyst attack where they charge forward after being damaged.

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3 hours ago, operational said:

Warframes in 2018 = Primed Disappointment

Khora = Who?
Exca Umbra = no need to invest time, pretty much the same as Exca and Prime(If he was to be this bad why not release Prime instead?)
Revenant = No theme, no role, no use, to the fridge with Khora and Titania.

People Hype about the Garuda frame, and im just here waiting for another disaster.

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Just now, xcenic said:

People Hype about the Garuda frame, and im just here waiting for another disaster.

thinking its a disaster =/= a disaster. khora launched rough and is now pretty damned good. rev lauched rough and will get his fixes soon.

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17 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

thinking its a disaster =/= a disaster. khora launched rough and is now pretty damned good. rev lauched rough and will get his fixes soon.

I would say Khora is still very eh, but much better than when she launched.

I was hoping we would get something more significant with the first set of changes, but I guess that was probably more of a rush job than anything.

Hope you're right.

 

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Enthrall is cool and flavourful and all, but loses effectiveness very rapidly when you have teammates. Or when you have a weapon with reach and big sweeping attacks.

I propose that Enthralled enemies: 

1. Fight as though completely berserk, with no interest in taking cover or indeed any task other than killing the Revenant's enemies.

2. Continue to lurch around and fight when killed, possibly with missing legs or heads and with sentient energy streaming out of the wounds that killed them, remaining in this zombie state until either a timer gives out or they are consumed by Revenant with Reave for some combination of armour and overshields.

3. Leave behind those cool energy columns, except that they slowly drift toward targets and vanish the first time they kill something, producing another zombie-stage thrall.

Mesmer Skin is useful and frequently entertaining, but might be more effective if it:

1. Had a minimum damage threshold below which it reflects but does not negate the hit, stun the enemy, or eat a charge.

Reave is neat, but not one I have been using much. Maybe it should:

1. Teleport Revenant to its target location, and indicate where he's warping to if you hold the button.

2. Follow Revenant from his start point to his arrival point with streaming ribbons of sentient energy that look totally sweet and are evocative of that whole vampire swarm of bats dealie and steal health and shields from stuff they hit to deliver it when they catch up with their boss.

3. Be cast at a discount if you aim it at a thrall, and explode them when you arrive in a messy rain of blood and/or machine parts with a good chance for health and energy orbs, but does not leave behind the energy column.

Danse Macabre is fun and as good an excuse as any to hum Billy Idol songs, but some peeps seem a little salty about the increased energy drain. I think they'll be happy if it:

1. Is more flashily destructive and destructively flashy. Like that thing eidolons do with throwing glowy bits up in the air that rain down homing bolts on the enemy, or those big slow energy bombs, or the rain of laser stars or lighting up bits of the landscape. Maybe add an additional deadly effect every time the ability levels up? Really unleash hell and get the players laughing maniacally so the increased energy cost feels like an absolutely fair trade. Also a couple of those options would be capable of hitting enemies above Revenant, which would address that issue.

2. Came with backup dancers. I mean, sure, thralls that erupt into lethal streams of energy aren't going to survive their nightmarish line-dance of doom, but they were going to be dead soon anyway. And it's for a good cause.

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5 hours ago, operational said:

Warframes in 2018 = Primed Disappointment

Khora = Who?
Exca Umbra = no need to invest time, pretty much the same as Exca and Prime(If he was to be this bad why not release Prime instead?)
Revenant = No theme, no role, no use, to the fridge with Khora and Titania.

Umbras great.

and they will NEVER are release excal prime. He’s founders exclusive and should remain as such.

 

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Enthrall
 "Ok" when playing solo, you can see the actual effect it has in the battlefield when using it, as other enemies stay alive long enough for you to see it spread. On multiplayer missions, it's just not worth it to use, your thralls get nuked too quickly for you to see the effect spread.

  • Newly enthralled enemies need a short duration of invincibility to see the effect spread normally
  • Diminishing Enthrall chance as more enemies get Enthralled.
  • Enemies that die spawn a vomvalyst like energy form (see below) that will attempt to charge another enemy for a short period of time. First enemy that gets hit becomes another thrall.
    C0r2rcZ.jpg
    (Use these guys)

Mesmer Skin
The synergy with Enthrall is forced, stunned enemies are killed before you can think about using Enthrall on it. I don't get much indication that a charge of Mesmer Skin got used as well.

  • Make it more Sentient themed. I'd have it so that each charge used grants you some percentage of primary damage type/status immunity for some seconds, with multiple buff icons to indicate resistance.
  • Eidolon style shield loss effect when charges are used.
  • Toss out the Enthrall synergy

Reave
I like how you can use this with Danse Macabre.

  • Give affected enemies damage effects, like a red glow if health was predominately taken, or a blue glow if shields were predominately taken.


Dance Macabre
Nothing to say about it, it's just interesting to look at and use.

Passive
Not noticeable at all and fairly plain, I want something more drastic. On bleedout, Revenant assumes an energy form, any available Thralls will rush to Revenants aid, healing it (draining HP w/Green heal beam effect, until remaining Enthrall duration runs out). In this mode, Revenant can use a modified form of Reave to speed up this process. Revenant's physical form can be revived normally by other players. Revival brings the physical form to the energy form.

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5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Honestly, I find the "vampire" theme tacked on to him to be entirely unnecessary.

 I think you are correct on your assessment, the main problem with revenant is that his kit tries to accomplish too much with very few results, perhaps simplification and overall removal of the vampire aspects of his kit would be more beneficial for him while also improving what he already possesses.

 The vast majority of the people who have commented on the topic agree that thralls are not in a good state and even if you could have more than 7 thralls, it would only influence solo play and depending on the changes it could cause problems to other players.

 So why not change enthrall? Instead of thralls dieing and creating energy pillars, how about if we could create an energy pillar in one area instead, you could summon a few of them at a time and they would turn enemies who stay inside the radius into thralls so instead of feeling frustrated with your thralls dieing and having to recast enthrall you would have something on the field making your a job a little easier, you could put the energy pillar on a specific point in order to turn enemies into thralls, there could be a limited amount of thralls you could have but it would still simplify the task of creating thralls.

 The Energy Pillar could then do damage at the end, perhaps based on the amount of enemies it enthralled for example, of course the energy pillars would have to have a larger radius than what they have now, but they don't necessarily need to look bigger, just have bigger radius.

 Mesmer Skin should be recastable when you still have charges while Reave should cast faster when you are not on dense macabre, perhaps 1-2 second damage immunity after the Reave is over would also help.

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My suggestions:

Passive - Retaliation: When his Shield depletes, Revenant emits a radial blast that knocks down nearby enemies.

1 - Enthrall: Puts a target enemy to sleep, than enthrall all sleeping enemies in a cone. Enthralled enemies fight for Revenant,and take 90% reduced damage from Revenant's allies for the first 10 seconds. Dead thralls leave behind a ghostly energy form that refills Revenant's shields whenever he is nearby.

2 - Mesmer Skin: Revenant gains protective stacks. Whenever he is attacked by an enemy, the damage is negated, the attacker falls asleep, Revenant gains damage resistance from the highest absorbed damage and a stack is consumed.

3 - Reave: Revenant turns himself into pure sentient energy, becoming briefly immune to damage while dashing to any direction, leeching shields and health of enemies on the way. Revenant can charge the ability to increase distance and leeching amount, while also extending the invulnerability period.

4 - Danse Macabre: Revenant spins around, shooting multiple laser beams. The beams modify their damage type to target select defenses and redirect incoming damage to them. Holding primary fire boost status effects and damage at the cost of increased energy consumption. Enemies killed by Danse Macabre spawn energy pillars from the ground that damage other enemies above them. The pillars move towards Revenant, starting at a very low speed and accelerating over time. Pillars disappear when they reach Revenant.

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So despite as of yet getting Revanent I've seen read enough I can see he's good but tbh i feel there can be just a few tweaks.

1. Thralls and Entrall:

Hold casting enthrall will auto enthrall all stunned enemies from mesmer skin. If you target an enemy and hold cast that enemy is enthralled prior to stunned ones. Limit of 7 is fine.

The pool of damage effect should SWAP with Phantasm'as Alt fire option in my opinion. As ks aside from infestation the damage pool will not be all that great this will at least give more guaranteed damage from a thrall's death. Perhaps make it work like his 4 if a grineer dies it's a corrosive barrage etc. Also a deplotable fountain of damage of a gun could give Phantasma good utility.

2. Reave:

Increase non thrall enemy dashes to 15% healing. Have thralled enemies grant damage redirection similar to Nidus's  link ability with reduced effects obviously. 

 

These are my thoughts.

 

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Hope Revenant is getting a buff this week.

I still think he should have been a tankier caster with more focus on armor and health instead of shields, and all of his skills should have been based on the destructive power of an eidolon, not this wonky vampire-wannabe set, and a passive that bleeds DoT puddles on health damage or adapting damage resistance.

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Hello. I've been trying Revenant for the past few days and have been enjoying his playstyle immensly. However, I believe there are some issues to this kit that need adressing.

The biggest criticism I have to his kit is how unreliable his minion system works. The biggest issue is how easily his minions can die due to friendly fire from both you and your teammates. I know this is due to the ability that causes dead minions to spawn pillars of pure damage for a short duration. However if you build for duration (which abilities that affect minions [Enthrall, Mesmer Skin, Reave] are the only ones to benefit from. I understand the playstyle of Revenant, which is to cull enemies to moment of weakness in order to dispatch them easier. However, I find potential in the army building potential of the minion system that can allow for a strong semi-summoner build.

Hence why I suggest that a riven be made for revenant that allows for a change in how minions work. This riven would allow for flat damage resistance to be put on your minions at the price of not being able to produce energy pillars on death. This will allow for minions to last longer in a fight from both sides of the line of fire so that they can be a good defensive tool in their own right. The upgradeable stat would be the amount of damage resistance the minions receive from the mod.

 

Otherwise, I say the only thing that needs work is possibly the radius and visual cues for Revenant's passive. I rarely notice when the passive activates due to a very unnoticeable visual cue and the radius of the passive makes it so only targets within melee distance get knocked down. Which I only assume is because I knocked them down due to my melee weapons.The passive visual cue needs to be more prominent so you can better gauge when it happens and plan accordingly. Perhaps and audio queue that passively happens when you get closer to your shields depleting, with the actual depletion effect being something similar to Rhino's passive or the one mod that simulates it's passive. Increasing the range of Revenant's knockdown would help as well. Possibly at most 15m (20m if you're feeling generous) to be able to knock down close to mid range targets as well. 

These are a few suggestions that I hope will help flesh out Revenant's kit. I do not want Revenant to go the way of other warframes where they have only two manageable abilities that are good for long game. Revenant's minion system should be able to take it into endgame. Not just Mesmer Skin and Dance Macabre. I hope these suggestions are palletable and will be taken into consideration to help improve Revenant's kit. Thank you for your time.

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I don't know if this is a bug or not but.....

I was in Sanctuary Onslaught and was fighting with me Galatine Prime. To keep my combo counter I started to attack a Thrall of the Rev in my group. I noticed that my combo counter did not go up and in fact it reset all the way to 0 because it was registering that I was hitting an ally. And so I lost a 3x multiplier because I hit a thrall which isn't an enemy but I can kill it?

My Idea is that while the thralls are "friendly" they should only be able to be damaged by friendly units and the Revenant in question. This way he can use it for his Pillars of Light and we don't get to kill them. Also PLEASE make them invulnerable to ally damage so that things like the above don't happen. They are either friendly and can't have friendly fire or they are still registering as enemies and can be damaged. Don't make it both it makes wierd situations where some things work and others don't.

If you made them Invulnerable to allies but made them vulnerable to enemy units and the Revenant then it will definitely help his kit. because when you need to use his Reave you would be able to get the health back in a "OH CRAP!!!" moment. Right now as it stands you turn around and you need health and your friends just wiped out all your health and shield regen thralls.

His Enthrall I feel is perfect if it also made them not take Friendly fire.

His Mesmer Skin I feel needs to reliably reflect damage some times you get shot several times and nothing happens. You don't even lose a stack.

His Retaliation passive i feel could do one of two things. IF you have no thralls and your shields went down then enemies around you (up to the cap of 7 would be enthralled). If not that then make it like the Eidolons when they stomp their feet. a Knockdown and Knockback/Ragdoll that does damage per the amount of shields and overshields the Rev has. For example if you have a ton of overshields and a bombard takes it all out in one shot he should get hit hard but if Rev just has 100 shields then its a useless Knockdown and Ragdoll/Knockback.

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Another Enthrall idea came to my mind.

Enthrall -

Revenant summons a bloom on targeted location ( like Hydrolyst does ) for 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 seconds and has 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters radius.

Bloom links and turns closest 6 / 7 / 8 / 10 enemies into thralls. Enemies will be enthralled for 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds . If a thrall dies , another enemy in bloom's radius will take its place.

Thralls also take 90% less damage from teammates.

* This new ability can fix Enthrall's spread issue ( cuz of dumb AI ) and help Revenant by making Enthrall more of an automated process. So he can benefit more from his thralls while using Danse Macabre.

 

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i just hope we can all bring enough attention to Revenant so at least they do something to him. Cause so far 2018 has not had that many frames, if good at all.

So i am hoping that we can get Rev to be a possible frame for somebody to main, rather than mastery fodder as it currently is.

And frames released in 2018 are: khora (20.4.), excal umbra (15.6.) and now rev (24.8.). Not counting prime frames.

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So.. yeah. I built revenant 1 day ago. and honestly, this could be a lot better. 

Passive is just.. weird.It's range is too short, makes it's kinda meaningless. Perhaps create a overshield when thralls are nearby? 

 

1st ablity's idea is ok. BUT there are something to be changed. Thrall should be more helpful to squadmates. It's so useless. The only thing it does is that enemies can become your allies. That's all. Maybe thralls can be more contagious, like up to 20 or higher, or deals additional damage to nearby enemies. 

 

 

2nd ablity looks ok, it reflects and disables enemies. But honestly, i don't like this. The mechanism is fine, but since revenant is a warframe that hurts a lot, it's 12 reflects are meaningless. It could be a timed ablity (like for 15sec, you can be invulnerable) or gets a additional reflects by getting damage (like a iron skin or snow glove, the damage you've got becomes reflects). 

 

 

3rd ablity is not good. It's too similar to tidal surge or slash dash. This could be like toggle ablity like wukong's cloud walker (slowly, but contiuously) or makes a field of mist that leech and heals allies that is inside (like ravenous)

 

4th ablity. This is very controversial. Someone says it's ok. But, to specific factions (infested, corpus, orokin) it deals way less damage. And  it looks more like batalyst, not eidolons. It could be changed to a toggle ablity that has a 3 modes which has a star fall from teralyst, energy pillar from gantulyst, and acid rain from hydrolyst. Star fall deals a mid- high dmg to all areas in range, energy pillar deals high damage to nearby enemies in specific spot. And acid rain deals mid-low damage to all area and has a larger range than other modes.

Generally, a not bad warframe to mid-low tiers, but just like any warframes that has been added to warframe recently (khora, gara), it's so useless to high tiers (sortie 3, elite onslaught, etc.) It definitely needs rework as soon as possible. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, AoBaka said:

i just hope we can all bring enough attention to Revenant so at least they do something to him. Cause so far 2018 has not had that many frames, if good at all.

So i am hoping that we can get Rev to be a possible frame for somebody to main, rather than mastery fodder as it currently is.

And frames released in 2018 are: khora (20.4.), excal umbra (15.6.) and now rev (24.8.). Not counting prime frames.

opinions arent facts. he isnt MR fodder. and he was released  12 days ago. and has had some changes already made. DE has already said they are going to make more changes and are watching feedback. sorry it isnt instantaneous for your liking.

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My advise would be to get Revenant first then play him.

10 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Hold casting enthrall will auto enthrall all stunned enemies from mesmer skin. If you target an enemy and hold cast that enemy is enthralled prior to stunned ones. Limit of 7 is fine.

while Mesmer skin is active, enemies who attack and are put to sleep, can be enthralled with no energy cost, this idea won't really do since casting enthrall on affected enemy won't even take that long. 

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Have thralled enemies grant damage redirection similar to Nidus's  link ability with reduced effects obviously. 

I'd rather not have this, as some Thralls like ancient healers will be actually beneficial to you and allies. This would also seem like Nekros's Shield of Shadows. The problem is allies don't care and kill everything. Plus he has mesmer Skin

everything else is just to balance him out.

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15 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

opinions arent facts. he isnt MR fodder. and he was released  12 days ago. and has had some changes already made. DE has already said they are going to make more changes and are watching feedback. sorry it isnt instantaneous for your liking.

They didn't say that what they said was a fact, they're just expressing what they feel.

So it's just an opinion to counter an opinion here.

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