Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[bibmobello]

22 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

The challenge doesn't even require you to level the weapon as far as I understand, you just have to apply the forma and gtfo. So pick 3 unused weapons, apply the forma and forget about them entirely. 

Or you can just buy a cheap weapon at the market and you don't have to wait to craft it.

Edited March 18, 2019 by bibmobello

[llamabrown]

I clearly stated that I was helping new players? So I'm going to move on.  

[xFrontear]

It's not all bad, really.

1) You've had months to even casually grind Fortuna rep, the fact that you haven't isn't DE's problem

2) You don't need all the challenges to get to rank 30, as many others have already stated

Sure, it's all easy to jump on the DE hate train, and while some rational is justified (chat mods), this, imho, is not

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

2 hours ago, RunningChaos said:

What about Orb Mother fight. Half the people can't even do that yet

true, most of newer players cant do it. so DE need to balance a bit those tasks. some ppl state that challanges are not hard, well get despair drop from stalker for 5k standing. xD in short it need balance about some tasks mr 2-6 are not equal to those of 14-16 and 26-27 nor they have "same stuff to do". some ppl need to re read original complaint about nightwave b4 start be toxic. rebalance it and dont see need for waste res on standing.

[Teliko_Freedman]

My biggest issue is the Friend/Clanmate part...

I kinda don't want to ask a group running PT4 to add friends. So icky...

 

[Marine027]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb -HoB-AngelofRevenge:

true, most of newer players cant do it. so DE need to balance a bit those tasks. some ppl state that challanges are not hard, well get despair drop from stalker for 5k standing. xD in short it need balance about some tasks mr 2-6 are not equal to those of 14-16 and 26-27 nor they have "same stuff to do". some ppl need to re read original complaint about nightwave b4 start be toxic. rebalance it and dont see need for waste res on standing.

You know waht would be optimal, i got this from Guild Wars 2, you get dailys but onyl in ares you can enter, so if you are new and have no high Character or not unlocked Addon areas you won't have dailys there. So Nightwave should give each player individual tasks depending on there unlocks atleast with things like the Orb Mother that is.

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

16 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Or you can just buy a cheap weapon at the market and you don't have to wait to craft it.

tnx for idea. forgoth about those but I need to craft 3 forma... why not 1 forma xD it could also do the job for task xD that would be more friendly to low mr players not just old man like me xD

[LuckyCharm]

I never thought about it that way but I have to agree that being max rank with solaris is a lot to be asking people to do for a mission that REPLACED alerts, none of which required any sort of standing with syndicates to complete. (for that matter none of the old alerts ever required built forma or weapon gilding either) 

It's not about the being able to complete it or not for most people, its about the fear or missing out, as its very unclear what any future challenges could bring and it feels like these missions are getting more and more grindy as weeks go on with some of these required tasks. 

[llamabrown]

11 minutes ago, Kontorted said:

It's not all bad, really.

1) You've had months to even casually grind Fortuna rep, the fact that you haven't isn't DE's problem

2) You don't need all the challenges to get to rank 30, as many others have already stated

Sure, it's all easy to jump on the DE hate train, and while some rational is justified (chat mods), this, imho, is not

Wow talking about real live honest to goodness new player experience, information and priority overload is hate? Really? You can not be serious. You can't be talking to me. That would be really beyond the pale. So I am just going to move on.

[Teridax68]

I think there's an inherent hypocrisy in belittling players for not mapping their personal schedule around Nightwave's time-limited missions, when the entire goal to Nightwave was to avoid having players map their entire personal schedule around time-limited missions. It's unlikely that anyone has no free time ever (and if they did, Warframe may likely not be the game for them), but I don't think it's that uncommon for people to not always have free time during a particular day or week. I personally have days where I start very early and finish very late, so that the only way I can complete a daily challenge during that time is by impinging upon my sleep. For sure, I'm not forced to complete those challenges, but there is an undeniable pressure to do so, one that the Nightwave update claimed to set out to eliminate.

I also think that a lot of the above argumentation begs the question as to why it's so important that these challenges be time-limited: if the goal is to get us to log in regularly, then that part is made redundant by daily login bonuses, which have existed for a long time. If the goal is to get players to play more, then that is something that would be only improved by removing the time-limited component to these challenges, as it would offer more total playtime to players who wouldn't otherwise be able to make the most of Nightwave on their regular schedule. No matter which way you slice it, there is no need for Nightwave missions to be time-limited, if only because this was the main reason why Alerts got removed as well.

[Thoughtmaker]

I agree that having temporarily available content locked behind previous choices made about one aspect of the game is really poor design. If you're going to award a prize for playing Fortuna content, award it for playing it, not for having already played it. Dangling that in front of people, no matter how unnecessary or insignificant those points may be in the long run, isn't the enticingly curling pointer finger of "Come play with me~", it's just the erect middle finger of "Ha ha, you should have tried harder when you didn't realize there was a secret prize!" The point of interactive media like video games is that you can interact with it, and many players simply can't. It doesn't incentivize anything, it doesn't give them direction or purpose, it just sits there as what they perceive as a missed opportunity even though they didn't have a chance.

The designers released a reward that is locked for some players with zero way to unlock it. Everyone had the potential to unlock Excalibur Prime when that was temporarily available; the Profit-Taker challenge is objectively more exclusionary. It's bad design that makes people feel bad, and the ones that benefit from it don't even need it. Warframe would be a better game if the challenge didn't exist and wasn't even replaced with another one, instead having one fewer elite challenge this week.

[Chaos_Rifle]

these 'challenges' are terrible for a number of reasons.

Gilding a weapon requires a new player to get gem recipes that are locked behind daily standing caps at their respective locations (cetus and fortuna), which may actually not be possible for a fresh player, while making endgame players that have made EVERY modular weapon waste time and resources, to not only craft this thing that is totally useless to them, but also level it to 30 to gild it, burning them out faster, so they can continue working for the limited access items like umbral forma, or cosmetics that are timed exclusives, and the option is to ignore them and /hope/ it comes back easier? 

The forma challenge is just asking a new player to spend forma they may not have because they already spent the packs from nightwave, say, last week when it wasnt asked of them, so they would have an easier time playing. new players also dont often get things even worth putting a forma into in the first place. the first thing a new player gets that is worth putting any forma into is going to be prime warframes and prime weapons locked behind rather high MR for a brand new player. If I were doing a new play-through knowing what I know about the stats of weapons and warframes, I would be ignoring that challenge until I had a thing worth doing. End game players in similar light, forma the things worth investing their time into immediately and thus would just be burning forma for the sake of it. I myself am MR27 and have hildryn coming out in 1h from the foundry at time of post, and depending on if I even care about her, I might THINK about putting a few in to see how much better she gets with them. this and the sledge from wolf himself who has yet to show up in mission with me even once, are the only two things left for me in the entire game that I am not satisfied with the forma layout on them. 

Profit taker offers a 1% drop at a sigil, that you could pay plat for (wtf-de), and really nothing else other than some credits and the most knockdown any player has ever seen in any game. asking people to do specific things, that they have no need to do, is just going to burn players out in general. The single most valuable thing any human has on this planet is their time, please stop wasting it for the sake of wasting it.This is ALSO LOCKED BEHIND FORTUNA RANK 5 STANDING. NOT EVEN AN MR27 COULD DO THIS IF THEY HAD NOT DONE THIS ALREADY BEFORE THIS WEEK.

TLDR; Nightwave should work WITH a player, not against them. You want players to play? give them challenges that all players will always want. The kuva survival the other week was annoying because of its length (my squad literally had four instances of people falling asleep on Teamspeak3 while we did it, mid afternoon), but all players need an infinite amount of kuva, so while its the slowest way to farm kuva, at least it was helping them. (I will ignore my belief rivens are toxic for the health of the game in their entirety without better ways to roll them and more control on what you get based on DE's infamous RNG) I think a quick and dirty fix to nightwave would be not offering limited rewards there at all, and just let people farm them at very low droprates. I think large summs of endo, forma, and orokin reactors/catalysts is a fair reward and worth doing if its a large enough ammount for your time spent. Warframes biggest problem is how fast it burns out endgame players, and I know I was coming up on burning out for the second time soon, but daily login being the only thing needed, it let me relax and enjoy the game when I did play. Nightwave is burning me out faster than anything I have ever seen in the gaming industry in the last twenty years.The rewards feel hollow and punish collectors like myself by taking absurd amounts of time to get. Remove the limited rewards engame players want, give them to us in events that are ACTUALLY hard.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Chaos_Rifle

[Kuldor]

"Just skip it" has to be the most ridiculous answer you can possibly give to these threads.

 

"Gilded challenge, just skip it. Forma challenge, just skip it. Profit taker challenge, just skip it. One hour long survivals, just skip those" While we are at it, why not just play a different game where I can play the content without skipping 30% of the content?

 

This is a feedback forum, those challenges are not exactly well thought and people are giving feedback about it, what's the point of coming in to say "just skip it"?

[(PSN)AtlanteanSnake]

Having any nightwave locked being a stupid reputation rank is stupid no matter how hardcorre you wanna act. For all the 'hardcore tenno' saying 'its elite for a reason' just stop The elite weekly are far from hard they are just as easy as the rest. The elidon was okay because it wasn't locked behind a useless grind reputation rank. I've done ever single quest but I can't do this become I didn't wanna rush farm a useless grind reputation, and because of that I'm being punished for it? Not cool DE

[(XBOX)Shodian]

6 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

What's the point of coming in to say "just skip it"?

Because it's an elite challenge and skipping it is not going to hurt you getting all the rewards, just you won't get them as fast. This could be a good opportunity for you guys to get to the point to do these elite challenges. You guys complain you're getting locked out of content but aren't even playing the content you are given. Go rank up with SU And show those Orb mothers who's boss! 😄

[Vox_Preliator]

7 hours ago, Horyzon said:

They.. they can't just work towards it. It's impossible. Because of the daily rep caps. That's.. that's the problem. Thanks for catching up.

They've have months.  Why didn't they work toward it before now?

To use an extended metaphor, you skip out on all your lectures, don't do any homework, come up with excuses instead of doing your share of group work, but show up for the final.  Why would you deserve to pass?

Or if this is another "But new players" thread, then there are a thousand things that aren't Nightwave they should be focusing on, and there's a piss-easy "Just kill things" elite right there.  An actual new player, not some theoretical one that is convenient for making arguments, doesn't need anything past rank 11.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Vox_Preliator

[Kuldor]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Because it's an elite challenge and skipping it is not going to hurt you getting all the rewards, just you won't get them as fast. This could be a good opportunity for you guys to get to the point to do these elite challenges. You guys complain you're getting locked out of content but aren't even playing the content you are given. Go rank up with SU And show those Orb mothers who's boss! 😄

Skipping one? definitely not, but look around this very forum and see how many times "just skip it" gets thrown as an answer. If the answer to something new the game is offering is just "don't do it" then allow me to say it's not exactly well designed.

[Kuldor]

1 minute ago, Vox_Preliator said:

They've have months.  Why didn't they work toward it before now?

To use an extended metaphor, you skip out on all your lectures, don't do any homework, come up with excuses instead of doing your share of group work, but show up for the final.  Why would you deserve to pass?

Because maybe they haven't played for months?

[Vox_Preliator]

1 minute ago, Kuldor said:

Because maybe they haven't played for months?

Then why do they deserve rewards for doing something they weren't here to do?

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

As someone who has been old mate for months now, and got to that point extremely fast, and who has played games with far more restrictions to progression than warframe will ever have, stop complaining and start farming.

Tho some NW are truely arbitrary and should not be present, even as a moon clan leader i think the friend/clan challenges are kind of a issue.. but every complaint about vox solaris related content is just baby belly aching about dealing with content that is not instantly avilable. It takes mininal effort and no matter how much you dislike it, it is part of the game.

If you don't like and don't play then understand you are not entitled to the rewards it gives.

[Kuldor]

Just now, Vox_Preliator said:

Then why do they deserve rewards for doing something they weren't here to do?

Because they are here to do it when the challenge is presented?

That would be like saying you can't complete the toxic damage challenge because you weren't here when elemental mods where released.

[EntityEnigma]

There were never any alerts that weren't doable as long as you had the star chart done. I'm really not a fan of this choice. This should be a monthly goal. I'd like to be able to prepare and attempt challenges with friends and clan mates instead of being told "just give it up."

[(XBOX)Shodian]

5 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

Because they are here to do it when the challenge is presented?

That would be like saying you can't complete the toxic damage challenge because you weren't here when elemental mods where released.

But that doesn't make any sense, you can easily get a toxin mod or trade for it. I think people should just put the time they're putting into complaining and put it towards advancing in the game.

[simplygnome]

9 hours ago, Starfreak911 said:

Not everyone has to do everything.  If all challenges were made so that a sub MR4 could run them then there would be no challenge.  As Ksaero also said, you don't need to complete 100% of the nightwave challenges to get all 30 tiers, and even then the later tiers are cosmetic so you can't argue it from a Mastery Points perspective.

There still isnt a challenge.

Grind X hours isnt a challenge.

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

ty for explaining things, I do suport this. as I stated players are not equal and need rebalance for nightwave. example we had grineer and infested raids. why not have corpus and orokin which could give you excluive items for instance. anyway some  tasks need rebalance. 

start agin with new account, you will  see how much content in game there are. and do task like orb mother or tridolons early in game. and you will see what I am talking about.

Edited March 18, 2019 by -HoB-AngelofRevenge