Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

3 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

You're not stating a "thought". Your post is written and reads like a hissy fit, much like a lot of the topics as of late.

it is satement just in written form. it is not like we are in same room have a drink and casual talk.

[JHarlequin]

 Tossing on a little feedback.

 I saw a few people mentioning Nora's voice lines.  They were kind of nice.  That was a couple weeks ago.  Now it's the same thing again and again.  The first day of grinding and I get a bunch of them.  Second day of grinding, get the rest.  Then it's just when I finish a daily or capture some fugitives.  It has already approached overplayed and yet we will keep getting the lines for quite a while.  In the same way that you put in a volume for Ordis, in the same way that some people ask for a volume just for Lotus, in a few weeks we will probably have people asking for volume control for Nora.

 Next, alerts were a system of rewards available for all players.  They could only see the alerts they could reach, but friends could help them get others.  Now they get no rewards unless they do nightwave.  Nightwave which has already had multiple objectives telling people they have to complete the star chart, finish all the quests, and go even farther because you are expected to attempt the hardest content or miss out on lots of points.

 That said, do all players see nightwave, and if they see nightwave, are any of the rewards and objectives concealed so that you don't dump spoilers on new players.  The spoiler issue is not massive, but still, you are telling them about Clem, Lua, Kuva Fortress, Umbra, the Eidolons, the profit taker.  Anything that is supposed to be figured out while playing is probably going to come up as an objective at some point.  Most people that play for a while end up hearing about all of it at some point and yet there are still spoiler protections during the dev streams.  If you are going to cover something up in the dev stream, you probably don't want to reveal it in the game unless the player is actually doing that content.

 Alerts were random and required patience or a tracker and the freedom to drop everything and play when something you wanted showed up.  Nightwave lets you work towards stuff at any time during the event and then any leftovers will be tossed and you have to try again during the next event.  Some people have already mentioned that you can't get as much.  Some items are just going to be out of reach for a lot of players until you retune.  Also as a couple of other players have mentioned, if you aren't going to play during the whole ten weeks of nightwave, then you really aren't going to get very much and just have yet more reason to say "why bother?".

 Some alternatives for objectives would be to have options available.  "Defeat the Hydrolyst or complete 8 different nightmare missions."  It would be difficult to work out what would be a relative challenge, but there has to be some way to provide choices that will not just shove people back at gameplay that they don't enjoy.  It is likely some mixes of mission types will still not appeal to some players, but having the choice would still let them balance their playtime better.  It will probably also have them still competing more of the objectives each week with fewer skips.

 The nightwave is cutting out the random nature of the alerts but doesn't offer anything unless you stick with the game more than you had to with the alert system.

 Try to work out how to track multiple goals for a single reward so that people could have options.

 Try to provide the important gameplay affecting rewards with big challenges, not just after ten weeks of grind.  Try to put the seasonal unique/cosmetic rewards at the end so that people have their seasonal bragging rights or can skip those without missing out on gameplay rewards.

 Wolf credits, or the tokens that replace alert loot probably need to primarily come from something other than the standing gains.  A few rewards can be wolf credits, but if they only come from the grind then it locks out people that aren't playing enough every week, and also bogs down the reward tree with unnecessary loot for the players that have already done the system a few times.

 Finally, we kind of want to know what our goals are.  We don't know how many objectives are required to complete the rewards.  We worry about it every time we see an objective that gives us headaches.  The wolf might be a story progression event, and it shouldn't be spoiled, but then maybe he or his mission should have a unique reward and not be connected to the nightwave progress, so that you can give us a good idea of how many missions we should be completing.

Edited March 18, 2019 by JHarlequin

[Shadow-Spawn]

DE should not force players to do 15 specific acts each weeks to rank up in the nightwave system. Let players choose what acts they like to play and let them play them multiple times while getting the same amount of XP for that specific act as they rank up.

DE should also add the quick alert system that proved successful for 6 years in combination with the nightwave system - making it more newbie friendly and fun to do while giving all your players more choices on how to earn their rewards and resources.

[Voltage]

I have yet to see a problem with weekly challenges for Nightwave. I got to make a new Amp combination to try on the Profit Taker pylons, and there is always something you can apply Forma to. It bothers me more that every Monday is at least one thread complaining about these challenges. Spending time and resources is interesting to me.

[Buboniicus]

1 hour ago, TheRealShade said:

I already answered that, go back and read it.

I did and I stick to my previous response, you sir are are either someone who still lives with thier parents or is a flat out lier.

Its annoying when someone like you tries to justify clearly bad mechanics in a game by spouting nonsense and lies

[Jiminez_Burial]

24 minutes ago, Horyzon said:

Lode. You're wildly misrepresenting my opinion. To say the least. Go fly a kite dude.

 

Starfreak, I need some sleep to be able to give you a proper reply. So I'll get back to you, m8. 

 

Fair enough, rest well.

[ShortCat]

46 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

"What person who can't access Profit Taker needs an Umbral Forma?" 

A person, who is MR25 and took a 6 month break? This is a rather weak argument, as even if you do not need a certain item yet, it does not mean it is irrilevant to your progression at some point.

Handing out U-Forma to a beginner is of course also absurd, however, the whole system just shows its terrible design. There are arbitrary gates in place that have nothing to do with skill, but rather time. To profit from NV you need to be there at the right time, but on a much larger scale. As such, punishment for not participating scales up accordingly. Wasn't that the issue with alerts in the first place?

[o0Despair0o]

Sounds like yet another reason to ignore nightwave.

 

Hooray for not giving a damn about trying to max out everything.

Not to mention the glory of this community when it comes to complaints. "Oi, this guy's opinion is different than my own. I SHOULD MAKE STUPID JOKES, TRY TO ACT SMARTER THAN I AM AND MAKE HORRIBLE ATTEMPTS AT SARCASM TO SHOW OFF MY SUPERIORITY."

Yeah, nice "community" we got here.

Edited March 18, 2019 by o0Despair0o

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Bigflufy said:

I don't think the exclusion of a large part of the player base is arbitrary at all, it encourages players who are not at max rep or don't have the gear for it to continue playing the game and grind for it. If you're arguing that you can't get things like umbral forma or exclusive mods without reaching high nightwave levels, then that's moving away from the tridolon and profit taker bounty specifically and more to the topic of umbral forma forcing players to do nightwave. 

I strongly disagree. Maybe in a "dog eat dog," "man up, kid" world that might be motivational. In the real world, Nightwave's effect is the exact opposite - extremely DEmotivational. I've already had one friend look at the Profit Taker challenge and go "Seriously, #*!% Nightwave." In general, all of it. And while I AM capable of running the Profit-Taker myself and might even get it done this week, I still find it ham-fisted enough to be demotivational. The whole "Look! Look! Shiny! You want this, don't you? Well, dance for me, monkey!" vibe that I'm getting out of Nightwave makes me increasingly fed up with, because the challenges seem to get dumber and less compelling with each week. They come across like what an incredibly insecure man would see reaffirming his "eliteness" just because they're stuff a lot of people aren't likely to be able to do.

And it's easy to argue that "they're ELITE!!! challenges, for ELITE!!! players! AAAAAAA!!!" but then explain to me how opening 10 Void Relics is in any way "elite." That's a fairly basic task that a lot of players - new and old, veteran and newbie - are going to be doing by the dozen weekly, at least if they're active. In short, I don't get the point. Unless a player happens to find satisfaction specifically in knowing that other players can't have what they have - a position I have quite literally no sympathy for - I don't see the benefit. The majority of these so-called "challenges" are a status check or a gear check. "Slot 5 Ayatan Sculptires" is not a challenge, it's a check to see if you had 5 Ayatan Sculptures in your inventory at the time. The same goes for "Use 3 Forma." Did you already have that and did you already have items you wanted to forma? If so, great. If not, try again next week. Or, indeed, are you already max rank with Solaris United?

I don't know what DE had in mind for Elite Weeklies, but motivating me to try harder was never going to be a possible result with the current system. To me, they read more like "Are you already in a privileged position as compared to lesser players? If so, here's a lowball to keep up your self-esteem." As one of the players IN a privileged position myself, I find that perceived attitude insultingly patronising.

[Genesix6]

14 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Sounds like yet another reason to ignore nightwave.

 

Hooray for not giving a damn about trying to max out everything.

Not to mention the glory of this community when it comes to complaints. "Oi, this guy's opinion is different than my own. I SHOULD MAKE STUPID JOKES, TRY TO ACT SMARTER THAN I AM AND MAKE HORRIBLE ATTEMPTS AT SARCASM TO SHOW OFF MY SUPERIORITY."

Yeah, nice "community" we got here.

Remember the time when community in warframe is supposed to be friendly like all people said?

[Kimimoto]

2 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

Forced to spend 3 forma and guild some weapon is veteran unfriendly.

Yeah my 63 forma aren't happy about this, and using my unlimited resources to build and gild a weapon may put me in the danger zone.

[Fiveel]

EDIT: "I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want."

When Nightwave came out, I was very satisfied with its elite weekly 1-hour acts and I want more of them - it's a second week without them and I'm getting worried I'm not going to get them again.

I know these acts have been getting a lot of negative feedback from the community, but there are people who love these challenges, and I think it's fair for those people to have them. Especially because 1-hour acts don't seem to harm players who don't like them.

Positives of 1-hour acts (Why I and others like them):

1. They encourage players to upgrade equipment and learn mechanics of the game: Without these acts, there are no good reasons to push weapons and frames to their limits.
2. Survival missions are very fun above 20 minutes and it's probably the best content Warframe has at the moment. The new bosses can be more frustrating than fun.
3. Without Nightwave rewards, long survival missions are not rewarding enough to do them instead of more rewarding content - no matter how fun they are.
4. If other activities are included into Nightwave, and survival doesn't, in a way it becomes even less rewarding than other content.

Negatives of 1-hour acts (Why people dislike them):

1. It may be difficult/impossible to complete without a team.
2. It is impossible to complete for people who can't play for 1 hour at a time.
3. It's not for a new players.
4. They might be too easy for hardcore players.

It's possible to unlock all of the rewards while skipping 1 or 2 weekly challenges, so people affected by negatives can safely skip the undesired acts. If that is not the case, it should be - that's way better option than removing niche acts from Nightwave.

Other suggestions:

1. If skipping is a problem, there could more challenges available with a cap on how many challenges can be completed each week.
2. Challenges could be made shorter in length if the difficulty of 1-hour survival was accessible earlier.
3. I also wouldn't mind if elite acts were made more difficult to make hardcore players interested.

So, yeah, I 100% support 1-hour acts. I think they are/were a great addition to the game - like the rest of Nightwave.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Lodeion

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-03-13 at 9:53 AM, simplygnome said:

Except historically is has been. Its always been a grind at your own pace game. That's why so many are upset at NW - it changes the games entire approach. 

That's... Actually a very good way of putting it. Warframe was just as grindy prior to Nightwave, but at least we could grind at our own pace, on our own time. Nightwave introduced aggressive time limits on grinds, making challenges which would otherwise have been doable far worse due to the timeframe in which we have to do them. I'm seriously starting to feel like the Fortnite Battle Pass is the "loot boxes" of this cycle in gaming, and I'm really starting to resent it.

[Syasob]

Just no. Thanks in advance, DE.

[kariers]

A bit of feedback after these few weeks of nightwave

 

A lot of the mission should not be weekly if you actually want to allow people to reach higher standing and get more things. Weekly mission such as kill eidolon or profit taker is extremely late game and a lot of player do not meet the requirement for it. It also affect new player as they will not be possible to do a lot of it.

Also, it kinda stop us from doing things because we are scared that what we do will end up as a nightwave mission in the future. So people stop slot in sculpture which is just limiting what we do.

I believe weekly should be more about finish 10 defense mission or kill map boss x times or travel for 10km on foot, something that we can farm and obtain within a few hours. Daily is perfect right now since we can finish it within 1-2mission.

But there need to be a long period for mission like defeat eidolon or use forma(something that is limited and we cant easily obtain). For example, you could just set up eidolon as a monthly mission since the nightwave last more than 2 months, and the grand objective of nightwave will be defeating the wolf, and you open up a assassintion mission for it for the last few weeks when we are closer to the end of the lore.

Overall, mission isnt bad, im not hating on it because it is behind a wall that we need a lot of time to get behind, we just want to have the time to finish that mission while can still somewhat playing casually.

Edited March 18, 2019 by kariers

[RunningChaos]

What about Orb Mother fight. Half the people can't even do that yet?

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 17 minutes, Lodeion a dit :

Positives of 1-hour acts:

1. They encourage players to upgrade equipment and learn mechanics of the game: Without these acts, there are no good reasons to push weapons and frames to their limits.
2. Survival missions are very fun above 20 minutes and it's probably the best content Warframe has at the moment. The new bosses can be more frustrating than fun.
3. Without Nightwave rewards, long survival missions are not rewarding enough to do them instead of more rewarding content - no matter how fun they are.
4. If other activities are included into Nightwave, and survival doesn't, in a way it becomes even less rewarding than other content.

1. What? How do they encourage players to learn mechanics of the game? And players start upgrading their equipment the second they see they can do it. I don't think anyone needs a reason to start upgrading their gear when they can,other than "be stronger". Also, you can instantly test your "limits" in Sorties or Arbitrations. 

2. That is subjective. I don't see where the fun is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again for 1 hour for no reward except for the mediocre 5000 reputation you get. And by "the same thing over and over again", I mean within the same tile, with the same Warframe, with the same weapons, against the same enemies.

3. I wouldn't call 5000 reputation toward Grindwave a reward frankly (This is not really targeted against you). 

4. That is also subjective.

 

Edit : I also don't understand why you would support a system that forces you to grind content that you would otherwise avoid because it is boring, for the sake of getting rewards that you used to get very quickly in a mission, plus a few new interesting rewards that you would get if you didn't drop your grinding spree below a certain level.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

2 hours ago, (XB1)JestersShade said:

New feedback with last & this Week: ascension and gild & forma!

Last Week there was a challenge to complete 4 halls of ascension. I thought it would be easy and waited until yesterday to try to complete it.

I did several missions on Lua without finding 1 and gave up: this challenge has more RNG involved than the ayatan one (at least, they have arbitrations to grind)

As for this week's challenges, I'm MR 26 with everything in the game so needing to gild something means to waste resources in building a dummy weapon, max it twice … and throw it ?

Is it what DE had in mind with this challenge ?

Same goes for putting 3 formas: I'll have to find a MK1 weapon I hadn't forma'd yet just for a challenge ?

So, as I see it, those are 2 challenges I won't do this week and it's a shame ...

Did you research the halls of Ascension?
 

Lua Mobile Defense always has at least one hall, Sometimes two.
 

You gild the weapon when you max it once,

But I agree that Challenge and the Forma Challenge should not be challenges.

[(PSN)Sweeneytoddzero]

2 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

well i did not build dojo or do dojo related things. well it may count, but what with players who dont have dojo or permission to change it? if you are some MR lets say 14 you have room to spend forma on and do 1 modular thing and guild it. but for MR 26 or 27 no so much it is like been forced to do it, make waste of your time and res. 

If you are mr 16 to 27 you can literally do any weapon you want it would literally take you maybe like 30 minutes to maximum out three weapon. The challenges are not hard 

[Qarte]

4 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Also, you can instantly test your "limits" in Sorties or Arbitrations. 

Sorties are very short and Arbitration scales way slower than regular survival enemies, so you can't properly test anything in those.

We need more High level survivals in Nightwave.

7 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

I wouldn't call 5000 reputation toward Grindwave a reward frankly (This is not really targeted against you).

Yeah but that's more reward so that's always welcome.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

No. They should not replace the once 10m alert missions for an 1hr run only to get 5k standing. I can earn more cetus/fortuna standing in that time just throwing a spear blindly into the water. They received a lot of negative feedback because the general “elite” populous would likly rather run ESO or the far more efficient Excavation for relics. 60m nightwave mission need to go the way of super jump.

[Fiveel]

14 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

1. What? How do they encourage players to learn mechanics of the game? And players start upgrading their equipment the second they see they can do it. Also, you can instantly test your "limits" in Sorties or Arbitrations. 

2. That is subjective. I don't see where the fun is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again for 1 hour for no reward except for the mediocre 5000 reputation you get. And by "the same thing over and over again", I mean within the same tile, with the same Warframe, with the same weapons, against the same enemies.

3. I wouldn't call 5000 reputation toward Grindwave a reward frankly (This is not really targeted against you). 

4. That is also subjective.

You are missing the point. I want 1-hour acts because of the positives and people who don't want 1-hour acts because of the negatives should be able to just not do them. See suggestions. Everyone should be happy.

14 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Edit : I also don't understand why you would support a system that forces you to grind ontent that you would otherwise avoid because it is boring, for the sake of getting rewards that you used to get very quickly in a mission, plus a few new interesting rewards that you would get if you didn't drop your grinding spree below a certain level.

Because most of the content only needs a bit of extra reward to be good enough.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Lodeion

[Qarte]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

They should not replace the once 10m alert missions for an 1hr run only to get 5k standing.

So you'd be ok with it if it gave much more standing?

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Just now, Qarte said:

So you'd be ok with it if it gave much more standing?

I wouldn’t do it for 10,000 simply because it is not fun. I would fall asleep by the 30 minute mark due to boredom. I’m a bigger fan of the passive challenges such as killing 500 eximus enemies or like this week, kill 1500. These are things you can work towards without the overwhelmingly grindy tasks. Missions with friends/clanmates are a mixed bag as well because it punishes the solo player but it is a far better option than 1 hr survival. I’ve been playing since PS4 came out and I avoid long survivals more than Vey Hek avoids being shot in the face.

[Fiveel]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

I wouldn’t do it for 10,000 simply because it is not fun. I would fall asleep by the 30 minute mark due to boredom. I’m a bigger fan of the passive challenges such as killing 500 eximus enemies or like this week, kill 1500. These are things you can work towards without the overwhelmingly grindy tasks. Missions with friends/clanmates are a mixed bag as well because it punishes the solo player but it is a far better option than 1 hr survival. I’ve been playing since PS4 came out and I avoid long survivals more than Vey Hek avoids being shot in the face.

Yeah, but it's fun for me and people like me. I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want.