Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[Creegz]

My issue is that I am literally not capable of hitting Profit Taker in the week. Otherwise I am fine with everything else considering it's relatively simple to get geared up for some of it. That said last week my clan spent a bunch of time trying to get one newer person up to par so he could achieve some of them. So it's more of an end game event, which isn't the end of the world. But the inability to hit Profit Taker hurts my perfect score thus far.

[Kebast]

4 hours ago, xXIcyBladeXx said:

Forma a Grakata or something idk jeez.

Ooh, thanks for the reminder! I have prisma to max out for the mod :). Was wondering what to use 3 forma on 

[Olphalarepth]

8 hours ago, HellVOps said:

Weekly Nightwave rant...Every Monday, stay tuned.

 

Edit: After some thinking, I recall DeadbyDaylight got daily challenges, and if you don't like what you got you can reroll the challenge ONCE per day, maybe that's the "fix" for Nightwave?

You want a fix for nightwave? Release the schedule of all the challenges for all weeks, this way everyone will be able to do the math for themselves and won't have to worry about skipping potentially mandatory challenges. Done, next problem please

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Remember the time when community in warframe is supposed to be friendly like all people said?

Now that you mention it, with all the changes happening in Warframe recently (events, new boss fight, and moreso Nightwave) the Forums are waaay saltier than usual. However, players in-game have been the nicest they've been in a long time. Having persistent goals throughout the week where we all have to find specific squads to team up with (___ With a Friend) or benefit from doing so (Thermia Fractures), we actually have some incentive to play in a co-operative way instead of what I usually do: pop into a Public, say nothing, essentially play solo but with others in the mission. I see more players talking to each other, working together, paying attention to what other squadmates are doing, etc. Everyone's also been more polite. This is just my experience and others may have different ones, but the effects of recent updates have had a positive impact on the community around me.

Except here on the Forums. Here it's bad. But people are always stopping here to leave their sob-stories salt, tears and metaphorical slaps in the face. That's nothing new.

[SenorClipClop]

3 hours ago, Chaos_Rifle said:

You want players to play? give them challenges that all players will always want.

That is impossible.

[llamabrown]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I slapped a toxin mod on Mesa's Peacemakers. Knocked it out real quick. When it says get kills with an element it doesn't have to be only that element on the weapon, You can have other damage types on there too Slash puncture impact. it doesn't even have to be the highest damage type, Just as long as it's there. Use Melee, Secondaries, Abilities. I even had dual elements on some weapons I did the elemental kill challenges with like Gas and Electricity.

But you clearly have Mesa. You are not just unlocking Mercury. The number of mods an MR 1 or 2 player I could almost count on both hands. Certainly if we just look at individual weapon category it would be less than 10 a piece. And let's not talk about leveled mods. I teach my new players to prioritize the damage and survival mods first. Elements come if they have room or resources. And we are talking about new players. They are playing with a Mag, an Excal and a Rhino. 

My point here is this. Do we ask people to prioritize just grinding the challenge or playing the game? Where do Nightwave challenges fall in priority of all the different factions already available in the game? Is it more important than running spy vaults with few kills to get the vault rewards? Will it hurt them later to ignore Nightwave? I haven't seen even the guides online answering these questions. At the end of my Sunday playtime I am at 140/150 bullet jumps (I suck with a controller) my friends were at between 25- 50/150 (still learning mechanics), and the complete one mission daily challenge done. My new player friends do not have a single toxin mod between them, one hasn't dropped yet. They will not even get to rank one this week. Is that what DE intended? If it is, then fair enough. But I would love more clarity on where noobs are supposed to fit in this. Syndicate rank can be passively gained with a sigil worn while killing things, but there is a rank restriction to starting that. Does the same need to happen with Nightwave?

Edited March 18, 2019 by llamabrown
Spelling

[xFrontear]

3 hours ago, llamabrown said:

Wow talking about real live honest to goodness new player experience, information and priority overload is hate? Really? You can not be serious. You can't be talking to me. That would be really beyond the pale. So I am just going to move on.

A new player should not be concerned with Fortuna. Again, and I can't believe I have to restate this, you do not need to complete all of them.

Nightwave is supposed to be for both newbies and veterans. It's why sometimes the challenges are so easy, like "complete a mission", and sometimes why they target way higher content, like "Capture a Hydrolyst".

[S1lent3cho]

I liked the effort put into nightwave but am seriously put off by the amount of grind required for things that we used to get much easier earlier like Nitain extract. In my opinion it would be great if nightwave was run in parallel to alerts for Nitain extract, the rare reactor drop, forma, genetic codes, Vauban parts etc. The credit alerts and resource alerts I didn't much care for so have not missed it.

The other thing is why limit the amount of time to complete the challenges. Why not unlock a set of challenges daily and weekly and have them available till the end of nightwave? Given a month I would be able to make the time to grind reputation to take on the profit taker. If the idea is that you don't want players to miss out like they did on alerts then why not give them lots of time so they can do it at their schedule and leisure.

 

[Borg1611]

You really should put out a hotfix that allows people to taxi to Profit Taker. A LOT more people will be able to finish that weekly if you do so. I have one friend that plays Warframe. He will not have the rep to get to the fight this week. That means he has zero chance to do it. I can do it if I add some random to my friends list since your awful design choice doesn't let me just get credit in a pub and you refuse to change any of the requirements mid season...

I find it obnoxious that you've absolved yourselves of having to fix anything mid season and stated you're not going to change any of them. There's nothing preventing you from adjusting the requirements in a hotfix, you simply are choosing not to and that's a choice players should take note of. Common sense should have prevented things like Profit Taker with a friend, 3 forma or gilding from being in the list to begin with, but since that ship has sailed, you could do something about them if you wanted to. Instead it's essentially a social experiment/beta test that you're going to look at when it's all over and MAYBE make some changes to it for the next season. 

[KIREEK]

What i liked:

•  killing (in anyway shape or form)
•  mission types (captures, fissures, rescues, exterminates) since this was the base for the old alerts, mission diversity is good

What i disliked:

• Big Boss batles (i honestly do not like doing them by force, especially eidolons, since they aren't my kind of taste), but regular assassination missions are ok.
• Anything that breaks the pacing of the game, such as using forma or gilding a weapon, i will do those things when i desire, not when the game decides it's a good time to give me some rewards
• Play with a clanmate or friend, needless to say i like to quickly do a mission, even if it's with randoms

 

[HellVOps]

6 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

You want a fix for nightwave? Release the schedule of all the challenges for all weeks, this way everyone will be able to do the math for themselves and won't have to worry about skipping potentially mandatory challenges. Done, next problem please

You got hung up on wrong part, I have no problem with Nightwave itself, at least from my experience.

I just pointed out how the option of rerolling a challange ONCE per day could help(like when you roll a riven and choose which roll to keep)

As for your own solution:

what good will it make? Instead of coming to fourms to rant every monday, people will keep bothering DE about "X week challenge" or Y week.....for reasons A/B/C, it will never end.

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, HellVOps said:

You got hung up on wrong part, I have no problem with Nightwave itself, at least from my experience.

I just pointed out how the option of rerolling a challange ONCE per day could help(like when you roll a riven and choose which roll to keep)

As for your own solution:

what good will it make? Instead of coming to fourms to rant every monday, people will keep bothering DE about "X week challenge" or Y week.....for reasons A/B/C, it will never end.

Rerolling challenges like we do with Rivens would be amazing!

Having a heads up on what's coming down the line would be amazing as well.  As it is, my gaming schedule fluctuates because I don't know what DE will throw at me with Nightwave and being able to plan ahead would be helpful. 

Yeah, people are going to complain but, they're complaining now anyway. That's just going to happen when you make something and add more than 1 human. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by MagPrime

[(XBOX)Deathjt1218]

This forma challenge is great it forced me to forma my tigris and other weapons.

[S1lent3cho]

I made a suggestion on the post where DE is asking for feedback on nightwave and I can see a simple solution to this problem. Why limit the tasks to be daily and weekly? Once the task is available why not have it available till the end of nightwave? This way it will feel less stressful and less like being ordered about which it currently is. It will also give enough time for progression for players who are not that far into the game yet to evaluate what all tasks they can do to still get all rewards they are looking for. The veterans will still get everything more efficiently and faster while still enjoying the elite challenges. Casuals or people playing just on weekends will not be stressed having to complete tons of challenges in their limited time and people coming from a break mid event can still play and get everything if they have the inclination. What do people think of this suggestion?

[TheSkunkyMonk]

13 hours ago, Horyzon said:

DE said players would need to do something like 67% of the weekly tasks to get the rank 30 rewards from Nightwave season 1. That's reasonable imo. But a task like this is automatically placed firmly in that 33% that won't--or in this case can't--be done, without any choice to the player. For a significant amount of players, I would wager.

if the Steam global achievements are anything to go by, 0.7 percent of players. Honestly though I haven't had a issue with the challenges, yes I've missed a few(scans for Simaris and the 1hr long survivals due to bugs) but my issues are with them removing Nitian and Auras from alerts which has seriously slowed my progression as I am now very limited to how much of these supplies I can get.

The elite challenges are supposed to be elite so I guess they are living up to their name. Id be loving Nightwave if we still had our alerts.

[TheSkunkyMonk]

15 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

Casuals or people playing just on weekends will not be stressed having to complete tons of challenges in their limited time and people coming from a break mid event can still play and get everything if they have the inclination. What do people think of this suggestion?

This is why my friends can't be bothered coming back, they were on a break when this started and now its a third of the way through and no alerts to keep them ticking over they don't see the point in playing and working towards Nightwave.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-03-12 at 10:16 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

it should be though. The entire warframe payment model has been based around bypassing wait times, so you can either spend time or spend money to get the "fun". People like this are exactly what a game like Warframe has been for. These are the people who have the money to spend, and are willing to to have fun in their free time. This is Warframe's target market.

So what you're really upset about is that you can't pay to win this time? 

😲 Is that what's been going on? Have people been complaining about the challenges because they skipped many of the requirements in the past and are now stuck, unable to do basic tasks? Is all of that whining really just a cry for help? 

8 hours ago, Priamos said:

I did and I stick to my previous response, you sir are are either someone who still lives with thier parents or is a flat out lier.

Its annoying when someone like you tries to justify clearly bad mechanics in a game by spouting nonsense and lies

How silly. It's as though you really think that all humans are the same, and they must conform to your views. Google "polyphasic sleep" and then go take a nap. You sound like you need it. 

Nothing that they said seems out of the ordinary for many younger people on their own. Hell, nothing sounds out of the ordinary for many older people either, these days. 

[S1lent3cho]

I  can see a simple solution to a lot of the problems people are complaining about on the forums. Why limit the tasks to be daily and weekly? Once the task is available why not have it available till the end of nightwave? This way it will feel less stressful and less like being ordered about which it currently is. It will also give enough time for progression for players who are not that far into the game yet to evaluate what all tasks they can do to still get all rewards they are looking for. The veterans will still get everything more efficiently and faster while still enjoying the elite challenges. Casuals or people playing just on weekends will not be stressed having to complete tons of challenges in their limited time and people coming from a break mid event can still play and get everything if they have the inclination. What do people think of this suggestion?

[(PSN)Blue_Sins]

2 people talk in a bar.

 

-Lvl 1 Warrior: "This is a Shame! I can't have 45 000xp when I kill a mob like these guys! I just get 10k!"

Lvl 100 Great Emperor of Potatoe: "But...I..I farm for this dude"

-Lvl 1 Warrior: " YOU'RE EGOIST!"

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by (PS4)Ggking8

[5H4DE]

8 hours ago, Priamos said:

I did and I stick to my previous response, you sir are are either someone who still lives with thier parents or is a flat out lier.

Its annoying when someone like you tries to justify clearly bad mechanics in a game by spouting nonsense and lies

Believe what you want mate, I have no obligation to further explain my life to you. I told you what it is, if you refuse to accept it then that's your problem and not mine.

Also, I'm not justifying anything, I'm just telling you that it is possible even under said circumstances.

[Horyzon]

8 hours ago, Starfreak911 said:

HAHAHA, I admit when I'm wrong but this is not one of those instances.

I said "and even then the later tiers are cosmetic".  "later tiers".

Umbral Forma IS unique, but that doesn't mean low level players NEED it.  You said it yourself, "Literally everyone should want this" - "want".  Want and need are very different.  What I meant by that was implied but I'll state it outright here.  Anyone who wants fully end-game meta min-maxed builds that uses all high mod capacity cost mods will need it.  That is very specific.  Even a build that just mostly uses high mod capacity mods won't NEED it as peoples current builds prove this.

"Everyone's free time availability is different".  Yeah I didn't state otherwise.  I'm saying that if I can pretty much 100% the weekly challenges in roughly half a day, then getting 70% of the weekly challenges completed in an entire week doesn't seem like that much to ask.  If I had said everyone's free time availability was the same, I would be saying that everyone has 100+ hours a week to spend gaming (as that's what I have since I am still job searching as a result of having a particular diagnosis and I only need 4-6 hours a night on avg sleep).  To expect that to be true of everyone is to an extent so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised to see the name of anyone using that argument appear in the Darwin Awards.

The distinction I think that most people miss with this argument is that DE probably designed the different tiers of nightwave to be appropriate for different player types, and adjusted the required time commitment to suite.  A single design mechanic/decision doesn't have to apply to just one desired outcome.

Alright, I got some sleep, I owed you a proper reply. To also keep this in sight, your exact earlier comment was 
"Not everyone has to do everything.  If all challenges were made so that a sub MR4 could run them then there would be no challenge.  As Ksaero also said, you don't need to complete 100% of the nightwave challenges to get all 30 tiers, and even then the later tiers are cosmetic so you can't argue it from a Mastery Points perspective."

Frankly I initially disregarded that comment because I saw as repeating the same first line as a previous comment, that not everyone has to do everything.

I want to start by saying I think you are merely arguing semantics for the "want" vs "need" for Umbral Forma, and I think it's a meaningless argument here. If you really want to go there, this is a video game and nobody needs anything from it at any time. It's really all just stuff we want. But obviously we're all arguing on the forums because for better or worse we care about this video game, so yes I think a unique reward like umbral forma (UF) is quite important to players. 

I still think that's a very weak argument that a new player doesn't need UF because they might not be able to use it yet. No, they'll clearly find something to do with it later, and they might not be able to get it later if they miss out on it now. That's like saying you don't need plat if you don't have something very specific to immediately buy with it.

Also "current builds" prove nothing because future content or balance patches might make current builds largely or completely irrelevant. But if you want to talk about current builds, even without UF there are still people running Umbral mods in their current builds.

So back to your comment on the "later" stages of Nightwave. You are right that I missed that detail in your earlier comment, my apologies.

But how do we define "later" stages of NW? Sure, 26, 28, and 30 are "just cosmetic"--though I still argue cosmetics are important to a great number of players. But 18 is a mod. 22 is a mod. 25 is an Arcane Energize. 27 is 3 forma, and 29 is of course Umbral Forma. There's also Wolf Creds among those ranks, which can buy much more than just cosmetics. And then there's the prestige system where ranks after 30 also grant Wolf Creds which can easily be turned into plat. So frankly, I don't think the "just cosmetic" argument holds any water here, even if I were to agree that cosmetics aren't "necessary."

As to your arguments on free time, you seem to place a lot of faith on DE's ability to get know exactly how to do things. They mess up just like anybody else can. Sure, I have no doubt they know exactly what portion of the player base devotes a certain amount of time to the game, or has Fortuna rep maxed. But even so, we as players can still question their decision to wave a middle finger to that portion of the player base. Just because they have the information, doesn't necessarily mean they made the right decision. Player feedback can make changes. E.g. they thought it was a good idea to lock away Hyldrin's blueprint also behind maxed Fortuna rep, and player backlash seems to have gotten a promised change for that.

Frankly I did not think this game was worth playing back when I first tried it in 2015. But a mountain of changes have been made since then, and now I tried it again and loved it. Part of what has made a great game today is that DE did not settle for mediocrity and has continued to make changes and improvements to it. And yes, people complaining can be a part of that process for positive change.

Even if DE disagrees with me and thinks weekly challenge is perfectly fine--and if so they might make others like it--I'm still satisfied I at least attempted to have my thoughts on it heard. 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I don't like the idea of tasks that sort of benefit warframe directly. It increases the odds someone is going to buy forma because they have to or because they can and frankly I don't trust any developers with this sort of thing, don't do it again, please. Besides, it makes the reward of the three forma we got prior feel.. like a waste? You're now rewarding us with stuff we're going to have to spend later to invalidate it? 

[Chaemyerelis]

I thought it was an odd task to complete as well. First thing that came to mind was, "what if i don't have anything I want to forma?"

Poorly thought out on DE's part.

[MJ12]

10 hours ago, Lodeion said:

Wow.

Elite challenges weren't made for the new players, it's obvious that dailies and most of the normal weeklies were for that.

You are unfair and selfish:

You want to make Nightwave require nothing to complete because you can't do one particular challenge.

There are a lot of players out there who like this more difficult content and you want to take the fun away from them.

Why can't we share the Nightwave? You can get your fun from easy challenges, which are like 80% of them and let us, people who enjoy some challenge, enjoy the rest of 20%?

This game can be good for everyone, but hyper-casual players want it to be just for the hyper-casual players and it's unfair.

Nightwave wasn't meant for players like you and me.

Nightwave is literally a weekly rewards system for active game participation. The entire point of having Nightwave be a thing, as other F2P games with weekly rewards have long since perfected, is to make sure that basically everything on the list is doable by someone who literally started playing on that very day. This is because new player retention is basically god when it comes to F2P design. The most critical thing is if you can get a player to stick with you for a month-if so, you'll probably keep that player for a good long while, and they might become a paying customer.

Having challenges that a new player cannot complete in that week is entirely counterproductive for that reason. You want to have a little fear of missing out that drives someone to log in and do a couple of missions, you don't want them to resent being taunted by a bunch of stuff that they could . When a player misses a Nightwave reward, they should be blaming themselves, not the game-and that is whether they've got 3 hours or 3000 hours in Warframe. And the only way to do that is to make sure that the objectives can be completed regardless of your progress. I'm actually personally okay with this challenge. I have enough resources, credits, and mastery rank so I can grind my way to Old Mate in ~4 days and finish the orb fight. But one of my friends has a lot less Mastery and they're *livid* about this challenge and how it's bullS#&$. And I understand that perspective perfectly fine.

And the worst part of all is that for the most part, Nightwave is fine at being a new player retention system, and emulates the best practices of a lot of F2P games regarding long-term time-limited rewards. The only issue is with specific challenges. People are saying that maybe that you shouldn't have your "tee up bite-sized objectives to keep players interested in the game" system also force players to have prepared beforehand to achieve the objectives to the point where some of them are literally impossible for a player to meet unless they already have met some pretty harsh prerequisites. Hell, right now the OP isn't even talking about some Nightwave objectives requiring people to deal with challenging content. The OP is just talking about a specific Nightwave challenge which is literally impossible for many players to achieve.

DE's implemented a fair amount of more difficult content to satisfy veterans like us. How well that content's been implemented is a mixed bag, but there's a lot of higher-end content in Warframe. Nightwave shouldn't have to cater to veterans to the detriment of new players when the entire point of the system is new player retention.

[Rogunz]

3 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

They've have months.  Why didn't they work toward it before now?

To use an extended metaphor, you skip out on all your lectures, don't do any homework, come up with excuses instead of doing your share of group work, but show up for the final.  Why would you deserve to pass?

Because the final was always the only thing that mattered.

 

For alerts all you needed was access to the node or someone to taxi you to get the rewards. There was absolutely no reason to do anything with Fortuna if you weren't interested in the content and no reason you couldn't tackle it at your own pace whenever you wanted to.

This challenge could have shown up on week one when no one had any idea what nightwave was and no idea they would need max rep for it. Even if you realized a ridiculous challenge like this was coming like I did and started grinding rep for nightwave it's possible that you won't be able to make it.

3 hours ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

So to sum up: an argument that someone won't be able to make it to 30 because of this one challenge isn't reasonable. An argument that "giving us a weekly checklist of things to do and then making some of them undoable for some players" is annoying, has some merit, but probably needs to be argued on those grounds.

 

Getting to 30 really isn't the problem, the problem is wolf credits. The players that need them the most are the players who have the hardest time doing elite challenges.Missing an entire prestige rank of them for every 2 elite challenges you can't do feels like a massive penalty.