Feedback on Wolf of Saturn Six

[(PSN)poloslash18]

The Wolf is too tanky for no good reason, that's bad game design. Also he's a boss but doesn't have a pattern and he just one shot squishy frames all day because you don't have an specific time frame to damage him and be able to evade his attacks. 

DE need to address this with their humanoid bosses.. Their movement also glitch alot, I hate when they run like the Looney Toons swiping the floor on spot and then glitch out and appear on the other side of the map.

I don't want to run all my missions with a tank frame for fear of the long as hell Wolf battle.. Hell, I solo'd him with a ungilded dagger zaw but only because I was playing Godnaros. Doubt I could have done that with Nova or Volt.

 

BALANCE. THE. BOSS. TO. ALL. PLAYSTYLES

Edited April 26, 2019 by (PS4)poloslash18

[-CdG-Zilchy]

^ Fall asleep ON TOP the toddler.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, (PS4)poloslash18 said:

The Wolf is too tanky for no good reason, that's bad game design. Also he's a boss but doesn't have a pattern and he just one shot squishy frames all day because you don't have an specific time frame to damage him and be able to evade his attacks. 

DE need to address this with their humanoid bosses.. Their movement also glitch alot, I hate when they run like the Looney Toons swiping the floor on spot and then glitch out and appear on the other side of the map.

I don't want to run all my missions with a tank frame for fear of the long as hell Wolf battle.. Hell, I solo'd him with a ungilded dagger zaw but only because If was playing Godnaros. Doubt I could have done that with Nova or Volt.

 

BALANCE. THE. BOSS. TO. ALL. PLAYSTYLES

I've killed him on a glass cannon nova, a limbo, a loki, inaros and frost so far. Frame doesn't matter, operator solves that.

[denis-ldv]

1 минуту назад, Zilchy сказал:

Can you prime him?

Nope. Only his pack.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, denis-ldv said:

Nope. Only his pack.

Hmm, no idea how it happened then lol. Thanks for the confirmation.

[(PSN)poloslash18]

3 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

I've killed him on a glass cannon nova, a limbo, a loki, inaros and frost so far. Frame doesn't matter, operator solves that.

Yeah, I just read you 2 shot him. Mind telling your setup?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)poloslash18 said:

Yeah, I just read you 2 shot him. Mind telling your setup?

I've only ever 2 shot him one time and I didn't even see what level he was because it was over too fast. Most of the time he's dead in about 2 clips or about 40 seconds, that includes the times he visited me in Kuva floods at level 65. Usually my cat is present and uses sharpened claws to strip his armour. Then I just put bullets into him. I won't pretend this isn't a pretty modded setup but even without the riven it'll do stupid damage to him. The mod you can't see is Point Strike.

Fixed, that's the right build. Also recommend Magus elevate or repair and lockdown.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Zilchy

[makaloff95]

Il y a 10 heures, Zilchy a dit :

Yeh screw game variety. I should be able to sneeze on any opponent in the game, I've been playing for a whole month now! I should be elite and capable of sneering at every assassin and boss!

/s

i get your point but when a lvl 70 wolf shows up it isnt too fun (i mostly play in public matchmaking), take freaking ages to kill off him, so basically i have to constantly run with khora and corinth incase he shows up, which is a bit annyoing. not everyone is endgame geared.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, makaloff95 said:

i get your point but when a lvl 70 wolf shows up it isnt too fun (i mostly play in public matchmaking), take freaking ages to kill off him, so basically i have to constantly run with khora and corinth incase he shows up, which is a bit annyoing. not everyone is endgame geared.

You honestly only need to bring one thing to kill him with. I've killed him with my beloved sniper rifle but I've also killed him with my Guandao and Pyrana Prime(go figure they're both slash-based and should be weak), my catchmoon and my archgun. Most of my clan mates have wrecked him with whatever melee they happen to be carrying at the time, you don't need to mod your entire loadout, all that does is speed up kill times, just like it does for anything else in the game.

[sorinmarkauv]

Gitgud. I'm praising the fact that this guy is hard. Also the only issue I have with him is the missions like waves not registering him as an enemy so I could kill him in time when I was leveling weapons up. But otherwise I welcome the tankiness of the wolf

[makaloff95]

7 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

You honestly only need to bring one thing to kill him with. I've killed him with my beloved sniper rifle but I've also killed him with my Guandao and Pyrana Prime(go figure they're both slash-based and should be weak), my catchmoon and my archgun. Most of my clan mates have wrecked him with whatever melee they happen to be carrying at the time, you don't need to mod your entire loadout, all that does is speed up kill times, just like it does for anything else in the game.

 

true, i personally dont have much trouble with him due running with khora and corinth, hes just boring (not much of a threat as long as i can keep his molotov buddies CCed) but my thoughts were mostly aimed for the newer players that encounter him. Wolf isnt a issue for veterans but for newer players he is basically a huge roadblock to be dealt with (as i said not everyone is running endgame weapons, archgnus or weapons with god rivens).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, makaloff95 said:

 

true, i personally dont have much trouble with him due running with khora and corinth, hes just boring (not much of a threat as long as i can keep his molotov buddies CCed) but my thoughts were mostly aimed for the newer players that encounter him. Wolf isnt a issue for veterans but for newer players he is basically a huge roadblock to be dealt with (as i said not everyone is running endgame weapons, archgnus or weapons with god rivens).

One of the best things they can do is take advantage of his mobility. The molotov crew is a pain but they're also incredibly slow. If they move away from them say round a corner, through a blast door etc, Wolf will follow but they will not, allowing them to not burn to death while facing Wolf.

[aswitz87]

The issue with wolf is that anyone can encounter him.

I was a rather clueless MR 7 with a couple ok weapons and two poorly modded frames by the time I hit Neptune (old star map, so maybe faster or slower now).

If myself from then was in a group with like individuals, we would see a wolf that would take hours to down.  That is a problem.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, aswitz87 said:

The issue with wolf is that anyone can encounter him.

I was a rather clueless MR 7 with a couple ok weapons and two poorly modded frames by the time I hit Neptune (old star map, so maybe faster or slower now).

If myself from then was in a group with like individuals, we would see a wolf that would take hours to down.  That is a problem.

Sounds like the old days where Stalker wrecked me each time he showed up. You know what I did? I died, lost 1 whole revive and then went on with my mission until the day I was strong enough to take him on. I still tried to take him, my efforts were just futile until I progressed. But I didn't lose my missions due to dying once to an assassin.

[aswitz87]

1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

Sounds like the old days where Stalker wrecked me each time he showed up. You know what I did? I died, lost 1 whole revive and then went on with my mission until the day I was strong enough to take him on. I still tried to take him, my efforts were just futile until I progressed. But I didn't lose my missions due to dying once to an assassin.

But wolf doesn’t go away, he will keep attacking until either he dies, you run out of revives, or the mission ends (either success or failure).

If he left after he killed his like the others that would be fine.  But he doesn’t.  For people of that gear and skill level, it’s basically might as well abort.  That is terrible game design.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, aswitz87 said:

But wolf doesn’t go away, he will keep attacking until either he dies, you run out of revives, or the mission ends (either success or failure).

If he left after he killed his like the others that would be fine.  But he doesn’t.  For people of that gear and skill level, it’s basically might as well abort.  That is terrible game design.

No actually he goes away if everybody in the party is downed at the same time. As in all 4 are on the ground waiting to revive.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Zilchy

[aswitz87]

5 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

No actually he goes away if everybody in the party is downed at the same time. As in all 4 are on the ground waiting to revive.

Ah so then if Solon also bugs off once he has down you?  If that’s the case then I retract my statement.  Have not had all go down (lots of reviving) so had not experienced that (different from Stalker where he leaves once his target is down regardless of other members).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, aswitz87 said:

Ah so then if Solon also bugs off once he has down you?  If that’s the case then I retract my statement.  Have not had all go down (lots of reviving) so had not experienced that (different from Stalker where he leaves once his target is down regardless of other members).

Yeh the problem is obviously that in a 4 man squad, quite often someone will revive and it starts over again lol. In solo however, if he drops you, he disappears, takes his molotov crew with him too. He got the better of me once when I was using Ivara with a bleeding dragon key equipped and a Baza primary cos I was unlocking a riven challenge. My Pyrana still took 25% of his health in 1 clip but his charge attack 1 shot my Ivara and then he was gone. Revived, carried on with the mission. Meh.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Zilchy

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Confirmation bias... yes and no, while it might be confirmation bias in some people's eyes, my own experiences (and others) do seem to correlate with the idea that they come more often when you're with lower level gear. 

My own experience with him kinda disagrees with the confirmation bias thing also.  EVERY time I faced him the for the first 11 times were all while I was ranking up something.  Only the very last time I faced him was I not ranking up something.  So taht's about 11 out of 12 times.  Hmmmm.  😄 

[MissingOne]

Not seeing this mentioned but I may have missed the reply. Since the sentient juice the Wolf is now treated as a sentient, so Paracesis and sacrificial mods make short work of him regardless of level. He can be a pain until you figure out a build against him, but its an event boss. The goal of events is to make players try new tactics and find options outside their "comfort zone" to deal with it. I was annoyed at first with his bullet sponge aspect, until I figured out I was just doing it wrong and he dies just as fast as stalker if you have the right weapon. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by MissingOne

[DoomFruit]

15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Wait. What was Stalker's spawn rate that you felt like changing your loadout just for him?

It took a long time before I finally did that. Many, many months. I did not like doing that and I am not doing it again.

15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And hey you can just let the wolf's event expire, right?

I assume that by this, you mean "stop playing the game for the duration". If I'm doing that, I may as well drop the game entirely. 3 months is a pretty long time.

15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

This is confusing. You keep suggesting that there's something that's not fun for you because you usually quit rather than face it, as your status procs aren't doing what you insist that they do.

 

"What I insist they do" is what they do on every single other enemy in the game. Even large dropships with twin turreted armour piercing autocannons.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Really? Because apparently void lasers are a thing.

Really? I can place down a void laser in any mission that I like?

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As are ledges.

Ledges are utterly irrelevant when the topic is a massive bullet sponge with unreasonable tankiness.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As is void mode. As is Garuda. As is Valkyr. As is archgun. As is just carrying any of all of the possible high crit radiation damage combinations that exist.

Void mode is utterly irrelevant when the topic is a massive bullet sponge with unreasonable tankiness.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As is Valkyr. As is archgun. As is just carrying any of all of the possible high crit radiation damage combinations that exist.

Valkyr is utterly irrelevant when the topic is a massive bullet sponge with unreasonable tankiness.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As is archgun.

Archguns are utterly irrelevant when the topic is a massive bullet sponge with unreasonable tankiness.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As is just carrying any of all of the possible high crit radiation damage combinations that exist. 

Which of those is the "exactly one way" that you're thinking about?

The thing which you just mentioned, keep mentioning and keep ignoring. That radiation crits are the only way to do any reasonable level of damage to this boss.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Last time I checked aborting a mission as soon as a specific enemy shows up means not killing anymore enemies in mission. That is how it works isn't it? Also you've spoken about how long it takes to do the job, which is probably due to not being able to do it faster.

Irrelevant. Again, point to the bit where I said that I was unable to kill this enemy.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Well since you have no issue with going from oneshotting to tenshotting the wolf's requiring more shots is clearly just a matter of a few degrees up the ladder. Sort of like an eidolon, or lephantis, or haemocyst, or Stalker, or acolytes, or Juggernaut, or Phorid, or bosses, or sentient drones, or eximus enemies or......

So by that note, a randomly appearing enemy which requires a million shots is acceptable to you?

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Well seeing as how we know from DE that his spawn rate started very low and got ramped up to 6% I'm going to have to ask you for proof. I'll also need to know when was the last time your crystal ball was calibrated to original specifications by a certified precog support technician.

Where exactly is the "have encountered this enemy X times" number listed in the game? I've seen him either 4 or 5 times (can't remember exactly which of those two numbers, probably the latter). As for what the next recurring boss will be, I don't see why it'll be any different than the current one. I've seen nothing to indicate that it will be otherwise.

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes. And in this game there are many different things that we need to be able to do. Many of them are so radically different from the others that the skillsets have little to no overlap. So while you may be excellent at one, you can be really bad at another. It's insanely myopic to think that just because you're great at killing low level infested, that you can automatically do 6x3 solo tridolon hunts.

You have once again completely failed to explain why wailing on an enormous bullet sponge for 5 minutes is in any way or form a test of skill or challenge to the player.

18 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Do you have any health or property insurance? Lots of people do. Same with auto insurance. Most of the time we need neither. But if it turns out that having it would have been a good idea, it's better to be prepared for the eventuality. But I guess you're right, if it has a low probability I should just drop my coverage.....

The difference here is that getting said insurance is something that's done in the background with a relatively low expenditure of money and very little change to your day-to-day life. The equivalent here would be paying X credits or some relatively common resource per day/mission/whatever to make the wolf, should he actually appear, into something which doesn't have ridiculous HP and the BS innate damage reduction.

18 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I certainly do. I fasten my seatbelt every single time I drive a car or fly in a plane. I have no idea when or even if I will ever need it. So do most people. 

I've seen numbers that suggest that the odds of being in a car accident might be less than 6% per year but I don't know how valid they are. The odds per day or per drive are miniscule. Buckling up every day still seems like a good idea. You should probably do that too if you don't already do it.

Does buckling up your seatbelt make a huge change in the way in which you would have driven or ridden that plane? No.

Oh, and:

8 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

My Paracesis is NOT part of the "wolf meta", and yet I was hitting him, consistently, with red crits in excess of 50k damage PER HIT.  Then our squad's Valkyr offered to Warcry me...and the Nidus linked me.   RIP Wolf.

That took less than 5 minutes each time.

Might've been 10 if they weren't there.

5 minutes of non-stop wailing on a single monster and that's with 2 buffs resulting in 50k damage per hit. Does this seem reasonable to you?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

5 minutes of non-stop wailing on a single monster and that's with 2 buffs resulting in 50k damage per hit. Does this seem reasonable to you?

I did it again without that same squad setup.  I was doing 50k anyway, just took a few moments longer to get to it, but my Paracesis is just a basic Crit build. 
It's also a "free" weapon, so....

Yes, this seems very reasonable.

It's not just wailing on him for 5 minutes.  It forces us to change directive (like when Lotus changes things from one mission to "exterminate" on the fly).  Now we need to lock down the objective, protect it from super-strong minions by using our CC, while the rest of us focus on the big bad wolf.

I quite enjoy the slight challenge.  It's a change of pace, keeps me on my toes, and makes the world feel more dynamic and alive, rather than just "I'll click here and do all the pre-meditated things I expect to do with no surprises".

tbh, it's the LACK of fear, lack of concern, and lack of surprise that makes games become "boring".  So no, I don't just want to "plan" for him.  I WANT to be taken off-guard.  

Rise to the occasion.

[SnU4uCghkY]

To provide an alternative viewpoint - being always ready for Wolf (and his difficulty) meaning you are nearly always significantly overgeared for content you had actually chosen. Turning entire game into dull and boring self-back-patting for simpletons...

[Deccessus]

Dear DE, 

The Wolf of Saturn Six is not a fun fight. At this point i just leave mission when he decides to pop in and say hello. He takes anywhere from 10+ minutes to kill and drops nothing but Fever Strike. Can you like....NOT make a cancer boss that nobody even wants to try and kill anymore? Either that or ACTUALLY nerf him.

[Deccessus]

Now on a side note. Challenging does not mean "Oh, lets give him super armor" and make him not even worth killing. Either make his loot table better and worth killing him or nerf his obnoxious armor