Kuva Weapon Rivens + Disposition Process Changes

[Alpha56]

Over complicated.

The game is about upgrading the arsenal with better versions.

Riven dispositions of base weapons will surpass their variants, people will return back to the base weapons.

Prime access will go out, but people will know that the base weapons with a riven outperform, or will outperform the prime version on the next riven disposition update, preventing them to buy prime access because it's not or won't be an upgrade with a riven, in 3 words, not worth it.

I'm not sure this is smart, DE.

 

[Stuby369]

If you do plan on moving forward with this, are there any plans to clarify the stats for each weapon type during trading or linking the riven? As of now, it opens up a lot of scam potential as only the better stats are shown via linking or the trade window and the correct stats show for the weapon they're using only after the trade.

[0_The_F00l]

Finally, 

I have so many good enough variant weapons but cause there is one variant that is OP the others lose out on rivens. 

I am glad for these changes coming. 

[master_of_destiny]

Have you guys really thought this one out?  I mean, really?

 

Yeah, let's introduce Kuva weapons that require 180 levels of grind to max, randomly dropped fro liches, which require hours of grind.  Let's then make it so that the weapons we improve take a nerf hit.  Let's do this after stating that our initial statement that Rivens are intended to make less used weapons more used is invalid, because instead of powering things up we just keep nerfing weapons we think are used too often.

 

That's....understandable for weapons where variants are numerically better.  4 different sets of stats for the Braton is tons of fun, right?  Now what about the other weapons?  The Detron is garbage, but the Mara Detron is a reliable radiation and status blaster.  Are you going to nerf the Mara heavily?  What about the Vandals?  Most are direct and minor upgrades...except the Opticor.  The Opticor is an entirely different beast, because you handicapped damage, but boosted crit and charge speed.  Will it suddenly be impossible to get a good Riven that combined with other mods can deliver 100% critical chance, and making that Vandal entirely pointless as a BFG and simply a cannon?

 

I would love to trust you more, but the Catchmoon exists.  A year of gameplay, constant Riven nerfs, and after all that you decided to hobble the range and damage because it was too good.  Not like you could have decreased projectile speed, increased spread, or even limited punch through.  I can't see this going well..but apparently the listening to feedback isn't where we are right now.  Messing with fundamental systems has to be coupled wild changes to systems that you've had a spotty track record of using consistently.

 

I know a previous post said I was feeling better....but these changes are just getting silly.  Please, stop it.  Release, iterate, refine, and stop touching things.  You never seem to refine, and release endless iterations because there never seems to be testing or feedback incorporated.  Maybe just close down the forums, close shop on social media, and start acting like a responsible company.  While I powered through years of this, the Kuva Lih system may be the breaking point.  If not that, the already busted random percentage kuva weapons combined with random strength Railjack features will tip this game from a rewarding grind to an insulting one.  Please, stop.

[Tiltskillet]

11 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Going forward, weapon dispositions will be tuned per weapon, instead of per weapon family. 

This is great, thank you.  Honestly I wish you would get rid of disposition entirely, but since that's probably never happening this--as long as it's managed thoughtfully--is a very significant improvement.  

Any thoughts on revisiting some advanced weapons  that don't improve enough on the base version to justify a different disposition?

Any plans for a better way to preview rivens, given that the  exact stats of same riven are going to vary across weapons in the same family?

[Kboy2608]

First the melee system,now this? Now i will officially call this update" The old communism" instead of the "The old blood"

In the past. There was huge difference between what is good and what is bad weapon. Which makes people something to work toward to, to aim for. Now all those targets are destroyed, not a single thing can DARE to be "so much better" than others. "Used to be trash tiers" weapons are overshadowing "used to be good tiers" one (and with this riven change, even straight up better version of a weapon cant even hold it advantage for so long) and yet they call it "balance", "fair", "nice"  changes. The sheep, as always blindly praise it, trust it!. But little the sheep know, in the end, nothing, even the current strongest and most efficient weapons is going to come even close to the power and utilities that we used to have!

Is this system will benefit our game. Well, it is too soon for me to say anything, i'm not a fortune teller. But you guys can always ask people from North Korea about how they feel about the new system, they have life time experience about it! 


 

[Fugitamor]

6 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

There is already an available weapons thing in the corner for riven previews that shows all the weapon variants the riven works on. Having the stats on the riven adjust in the preview based off of what you have selected there is an easy solution for this.

Think about the general player base every time there's a semi-big patch. You get held up with an update, the splash screen changes, there's endless menus in game and even letters and prompts and all that telling you over and over "There's new stuff, bro! Click literally any of this to find out more!"

What does the average player do? Spam endlessly about some weird new thing that happened to them that they don't understand at all. What is this lich? Some thing invaded and killed me. There's a new warframe? How do I get it? Tell me, walk me through it, I don't understand this. How do I mod the new crit based rifle? What do you mean "Like literally every other crit based rifle in the game"? I know my inbox force opened when I logged in and said "Riven dispos changed, double check them, there's patch notes btw" but my Rubico riven changed and I don't understand why and I'm so mad right now!

And now you expect people to be able to click something in the UI and understand that the stats they are seeing on a mod may not be the same on the prime version they just paid the prime access for? 

Regardless of any feelings on rivens and the riven market you have, this is a level of complication that is far above and beyond the attention span and effort a lot of the player base wants to or is possibly even able to put in to critical thinking.

[LordofGreystoke]

I never post in the forums but jeez.  Rivens were a bad idea to begin with but players sunk tons of plat and time into them anyways. Now you guys are gonna keep punishing us again and again, because they are useful?  After basically removing status builds from the game, (RIP Condition overload) All while ability based frames are kings and queens, Hiya Saryn. I don't even get excited anymore when I roll a riven that's good, because I know you'll kill it soon enough. It hurts to like this game these days.

[xRufus7x]

1 hour ago, ErsatzInsomniac said:

Think about the general player base every time there's a semi-big patch. You get held up with an update, the splash screen changes, there's endless menus in game and even letters and prompts and all that telling you over and over "There's new stuff, bro! Click literally any of this to find out more!"

What does the average player do? Spam endlessly about some weird new thing that happened to them that they don't understand at all. What is this lich? Some thing invaded and killed me. There's a new warframe? How do I get it? Tell me, walk me through it, I don't understand this. How do I mod the new crit based rifle? What do you mean "Like literally every other crit based rifle in the game"? I know my inbox force opened when I logged in and said "Riven dispos changed, double check them, there's patch notes btw" but my Rubico riven changed and I don't understand why and I'm so mad right now!

And now you expect people to be able to click something in the UI and understand that the stats they are seeing on a mod may not be the same on the prime version they just paid the prime access for? 

Regardless of any feelings on rivens and the riven market you have, this is a level of complication that is far above and beyond the attention span and effort a lot of the player base wants to or is possibly even able to put in to critical thinking.

you could literally put an alert on the riven view. This isn't a complex thing to understand nor is it complex thing to teach or retain. I don't expect a lot but a learning level somewhere around the intelligence of your average house pet should be manageable by the majority of the community.

[Udoshi]

12 hours ago, Baerk said:

Just as the devs understand they can't nerf kohm so easily because the weapon is incredably sensitive to the 100% SC breakpoint.... they should also understand if they overbuff a non prime weapon disposition it'll become stronger than the prime. It should be very easy to calculate new DPSes with riven dispo changes however. Just as they have to be careful of shotgun 100% SC breakpoints they should also realize they can't make non primes drastically overshoot primes because of dispo changes and instead rig the non prime dispo changes to make the non primes become roughly equal to the prime at most.

I just wish my kuva kohm could get 100% status on two mods!

its like, 0.27 off thanks to the disposition difference. Super sad!

[Fugitamor]

4 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

you could literally put an alert on the riven view. This isn't a complex thing to understand nor is it complex thing to teach or retain. I don't expect a lot but a learning level somewhere around the intelligence of your average house pet should be manageable by the majority of the community.

They literally put a splash screen and forced opening of text upon logging in that says "This is something we changed" and the community still has no idea. Maybe I'm just cynical but I view the community in the same way as a dog that still runs face first into the glass sliding door for every squirrel that jumps on the porch despite years of bouncing off of it.

People will not read and this will just cause problems. It's needless complication and a poor band-aid and will be a headache for literally every weapon release from now on.

[xRufus7x]

1 minute ago, ErsatzInsomniac said:

They literally put a splash screen and forced opening of text upon logging in that says "This is something we changed" and the community still has no idea. Maybe I'm just cynical but I view the community in the same way as a dog that still runs face first into the glass sliding door for every squirrel that jumps on the porch despite years of bouncing off of it.

If that is the case then DE should definitely not be designing the game around people incapable of reading or looking things up.

[Rahalda]

big issue: confusion

[Fugitamor]

2 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

If that is the case then DE should definitely not be designing the game around people incapable of reading or looking things up.

They should design around their customers, just so happens their customers have the average intelligence and attention span of your average person - IE not much. Remember the people on these boards, even the ones who aren't all that informed, are still paying vastly more attention than your average player who just logs in, wows at the flashy lights, and spends some money with that super lucky 50% off coupon to get plat to buy a riven mod for their super favorite weapon.

They aren't going to read about stuff like this, they aren't going to pay attention to many of the details, they're just going to slap that riven into the new prime version of their favorite weapon and say "But wait, why does it only have half the numbers it just said earlier?"

I have seen it already with the Kuva weapons and people being very frustrated, and those are people who were informed enough to be blasting through grinding the weapons out and already owned rivens in preparation - Obviously informed people. Now balloon this issue up to including EVERY weapon for all those basic players who can't be bothered to read who just know they got screwed on their purchase and don't understand why. If they pack up and walk that's a paying customer gone, and paying customers taking a walk is bad.

That's problem number one before you even begin to take into account the issue of game health people have already described where 5/5 dispo will generally beat 1/5 dispo on similar weapons even if the base stats are higher on the 1/5. 5/5 dispo will absolutely crush with weaker base stats than 1/5 dispo things with higher stats. Even 3/5 is vastly stronger than 1/5. The customers who DO figure out their mistakes on weapon variants aren't even going to bother with the prime unless it's Gram to Gram Prime levels of higher stats. (Pre balance pass normal Gram had unsalvageable 7.5%cc/10%sc and Gram P rolled in rocking around 30/30) This has further possibility of lost revenue unless DE power creeps the hell out of every new variant release which is likely to just further compound everything.

It just feels really short sighted in a huge aspect. I respect the effort, I respect trying new ideas, but I also respect them enough to try to point out any and all ways this could blow up in their faces and I really feel they're going to tick off far more of their player base than just the die hard riven marketers.

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, xRufus7x said:

If that is the case then DE should definitely not be designing the game around people incapable of reading or looking things up.

And if DE is designing the game around those people, I have to say they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it already. 😛

[--Gauss-Prime--]

Oof,next year.

[dregomz]

9 hours ago, Alpha56 said:

Over complicated.

The game is about upgrading the arsenal with better versions.

Riven dispositions of base weapons will surpass their variants, people will return back to the base weapons.

Prime access will go out, but people will know that the base weapons with a riven outperform, or will outperform the prime version on the next riven disposition update, preventing them to buy prime access because it's not or won't be an upgrade with a riven, in 3 words, not worth it.

I'm not sure this is smart, DE.

 

This change may kill their game for high mr players, since why would you need to farm new prime/kuva/wrait variant if riven dispo and dmg would be lower than counterpart? That's exactly what is happening with Kuva weapons, why would i use my Kuva Tonkor if my riven have 20-43% lowered stats (cold dmg, dmg and multishot).

 Kuva Tonkor vs Original Tonkor

Warframe was all about grinding new slightly better weapons and have fun with builds but now they killed both with single update, progression no longer exist.

[MPonder]

Do Twin Stubbas riven exist?

[Sylonus]

15 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

I'd like to point out that what you've intended with rivens has never worked out in practice.

Not trying to be mean, here, but I seriously do not believe this is a good direction to go in. This is going to make an already badly designed, counter intuitive and overall problematic system even more trouble to juggle, and present even more opportunities for you to anger and frustrate your players.

Rivens don't need another bandaid. Rivens need less RNG, a flattening, and a massive simplification. You're going in the exact opposite direction you should be, and you're going to pay for it later.

I can't agree with you enough.

[(PSN)Laertide]

Thanks DE.

Riven system, born as a way to improve unused weapons, has become a trading system.

Moreover, more than half of critics on forums is about "DE has nerfed my rivens, so I'll stop playing"

The game is called WARFRAME, not RIVEN MODS.

In conclusion, every update that nerf the riven trading system (I don't care about weapons, I'll simply use another one) is welcome.

In the beginning there will be some problems (players who don't are aware of the changes) but in the end I think that this is a great idea.

Great work, DE. Keep it up!!!

[Sylonus]

[Sharkgoblin]

one of the rivens i use on kraken go to -140 impact on the kuva kraken it goes -91% impact... this nerf is alredy pretty heavy i hope you have the awareness that kuva kraken with no negative impact riven is kinda meh, so hopefully it will not get nerfed further 

the kuva seer is a #*!%ing beast tho, insane damage no riven required, its model is even bigger than regular seer, now thats a mf upgrade if you ask me

 

[TuxedoCatfish]

Disposition shouldn't exist. It should be 1.0 across the board and balance changes should be made at the level of base weapon stats.

[Zeniistar]

ok lemme buy some plat for that Riven mod I want!

DE: lol lets nerf it to death

🙂

[Bagaosuni]

That is a really interesting update DE good job👏👏👏👏, so the original version weapon can appear much more frequent than now.

i have your next idea ready as well!

Greeting Tenno!

because not much people are using prime weapon now, so we decided that we will make prime version as a skin of the normal version from now on! And than you can have your 1.4 disposition with prime appearance!

 

please do this, looking forward to more people transfer to destiny 2 👏👏👏

By the way, this reply is not a compliment, since u guys have miss understood players for a long time, I will indeed specify this out. As for reason, a lot of wise players shared there thoughts, and if u still want this game to be alive, take a deep thought before actions.

we had one melee update, we do not want one more.