Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

[Anarbitrio]

3 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

You're not even apart of this discussion. 

He doesn't need to be. Neither do I. This is just pages of conveniently and resentfully presented bits of information with causal relations ham-fistedly forced upon them.

 

[Fire2box]

4 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

He doesn't need to be. Neither do I. This is just pages of conveniently and resentfully presented bits of information with causal relations ham-fistedly forced upon them.

 

Yet the only ones not presenting factual information to support their claims are the ones saying stuff akin to "Well Warframe stand alone version has 18 million players and 38% of them play at any given time. It's more popular then all the top ten games on steam combined. Oh and my Uncle works at Nintendo." 

We're seeing first hand the reason DE doesn't release statics of just about anything. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Fire2box

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

You're not even apart of this discussion. 

I'm part of any discussion I want to be sport.

I got busy and let you off the hook last night...Today? Not so much.

Bring those massaged screenshots, goofy lists, crappy arguments, and causal fallacies this way... I will make time just for you😁

 

[Fire2box]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

I'm part of any discussion I want to be sport.

I got busy and let you off the hook last night...Today? Not so much.

Bring those massaged screenshots, goofy lists, crappy arguments, and causal fallacies this way... I will make time just for you😁

 

Nah your not apart of any discussion i'm having. 

[Aldain]

...Anyone want some popcorn?

Because I don't see this ending any time this week.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Just now, Fire2box said:

Nah your not apart of any discussion i'm having. 

 

[Fire2box]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Anyone want some popcorn?

Because I don't see this ending any time this week.

This topic would of been dead and buried in it's first hour of existence if the people who didn't care actually proved it. 

[Aldain]

I...really really...really really really REALLY don't care.

This entire back and forth is being done solely on missing information and the assumption that the existence of one set of information proves the other's similarity.

It is a good thing this isn't a courtroom, because I'm 90% certain this entire argument would have been thrown out.

[tyreens]

At least we having fun here, if we don't get it from ingame.

[Fire2box]

8 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Will you knock it the hell off already? Always picking fights and plugging your fingers in your ears. Always acting like your opinion is the correct one and then crying like a damn child.

Thanks for proving my point. "I don't like this topic, I'm going to continually bump it up to the top of the board so the only way it dies is when a mod closes it". I don't even know why any of you find it fun let alone make a game out of it. 

 

oh wait, you find the lich system as boring as those of us hence you are here. not in Warframe.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Fire2box

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

I...really really...really really really REALLY don't care.

This entire back and forth is being done solely on missing information and the assumption that the existence of one set of information proves the other's similarity.

It is a good thing this isn't a courtroom, because I'm 90% certain this entire argument would have been thrown out.

Yup it's all causal fallacies.

Which is why my stance remains that people should play what they like.

The dumbest thing I can imagine is coming to another game's forums just to tell those players that their game sucks.

The 2nd dumbest thing I can imagine is concocting "facts" to support that a game they supposedly support is dying as a call to action to get their petty wants addressed.

It's ridiculous.

2 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Thanks for proving my point. "I don't like this topic, I'm going to continually bump it up to the top of the board so the only way it dies is when a mod closes it". I don't even know why any of you find it fun let alone make a game out of it. 

Contrition? From You?

No more telling people to, "Prove it"?

No more questioning people's cognitive abilities?

...Wow.

[Corvid]

31 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It is a good thing this isn't a courtroom, because I'm 90% certain this entire argument would have been thrown out.

Having served in a jury, I can confirm that it would be.

[White_Matter]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

What might cause something to grow repetitive more quickly? If there's fewer means to do it, or fewer situations that can come up - in essence, you are more likely to do the exact same thing each time you run it. This is as opposed to less linear designs where doing the same 'thing' can result in more overall experiences (for example, taking a different approach to the same problem), and thus you're less likely to encounter the same exact experience over and over, limiting how repetitive it can be, as well as also giving you rest between each possible variation. Simply put, the more experiences one activity can offer, the slower it will become repetitive

And what do we see in PoE at launch? Well, there was only one means to acquire bounty items, one means to acquire fishing items and one means to acquire mining items, and the there was very minimal variation in what you did to do it - fishing Murkrays was the same thing as fishing Norg, you throw a bait, and the same for mining. The procedural generation of bounties, and variety of possible locations did mitigate it somewhat, but there weren't many truly different variations, similar to tileset gameplay. Whilst it started from a fresher state, it had design that meant it would get repetitive faster than a true open world experience, which usually offers more variety in things to do and/or more ways to approach the same objective.

Kuva Liches? There's only one path through them, and different liches do not provide that much of a different experience when you fight them. They are experientially the same thing each time. The fact their mission take place on existing mission types is irrelevant - each run through is the same run through, and thus you will be doing the same thing over and over. If each lich provided a different experience when you were hunting it, then that would mitigate the repetitiveness of running basic mission types, because you'd be more likely to get something new in those mission types, that changes things up.

 

Simply put, linear design is repetitive design, and PoE and Kuva liches were both linearly designed. It's the design of release PoE and Kuva Liches that is repetitive, because it produces a repetitive experience.

Perfect example of strawman. You are not even adressing what I said. 

What I said is, whether the content is designed to be repetitive or not, the more new features it has, the longer it will take to become repetitive.

POE was the first open world(meaning an experience nothing like before), introduced new mission types, enemies and boss fights(Eidolons). So when it first came out, it was a fully fresh experience.

Grinding for Kuva Liches are not a fresh experience because you are running regular star chart missions in the same tilesets against the same enemies.

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by White_Matter

[HyperDiver]

The minute Warframe got back into Steam's Top 10 this entire post and its existence got nerfed out of existence.

Naysayers and people who believe OP has a point have proven themselves oblivious to the fact that a) even broken clocks are right twice a day, and b) statistics do not mean anything to your beliefs because statistics are facts and beliefs are feelings. They FEEL the game is wrong and has wronged them, and no fact in the universe will ever convince them reality is not how they feel it is, despite several players arguing and proving otherwise.

Thread is dead, since we reached the proverbial tipping point of argumentum ad hominem, ad nauseam by now. We can put it on top: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here". Have fun arguing with Toxic Ancients why Warframe is not dead.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, HyperDiver said:

The minute Warframe got back into Steam's Top 10 this entire post and its existence got nerfed out of existence.

Naysayers and people who believe OP has a point have proven themselves oblivious to the fact that a) even broken clocks are right twice a day, and b) statistics do not mean anything to your beliefs because statistics are facts and beliefs are feelings. They FEEL the game is wrong and has wronged them, and no fact in the universe will ever convince them reality is not how they feel it is, despite several players arguing and proving otherwise.

Thread is dead, since we reached the proverbial tipping point of argumentum ad hominem, ad nauseam by now. We can put it on top: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here". Have fun arguing with Toxic Ancients why Warframe is not dead.

Heh, toxic ancients. But you're right, this degenerated really quickly.

Edited November 12, 2019 by HolySeraphin

[HolySeraphin]

21 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Anyone want some popcorn?

Because I don't see this ending any time this week.

Got you covered:

[InsuranceFraud]

1 minute ago, HolySeraphin said:

Got you covered:

This thread aint going anywhere till the devstream now. Pretty much that's their last devstream of the year, besides MAYBE one at the end of December. This is their chance to outline the roadmap for the end of the year...

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

I've cited publicly available numbers showing Warframe player base decline.

No one said it hasn't.... It's an almost 7yr old game. Attrition happens.

But, per you, numbers aren't relevant right?

1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

If I ever wasted my time here it's simply been showing how Destiny 2 has consistently higher player count then this game.

Sure they do... Also not contested.

Likewise, per you, numbers aren't important though.

1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

But it was always met with people trying to say that Warframe has more players but never with any proof to back it up.

Because that's obvious? Steam isn't the only way to log-in and Steam isn't tracking your analytics if you aren't logging in through them.

I'm not certain why you have chosen to actively discount obvious information though.

1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

as far as I know you can quite literally do anything else, but your here doing this? 

I mean...You are here telling people the sky is falling when you could be off playing either game.

At least @Sajochi isn't using screenshots, right?

...That's gotta count for something. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Fire2box said:

not even 25% of Warframe users on steam have the 10 hour achivement unlocked. Are you also going to claim that warframe stand alone users blow past 10 hours too? 

 

(it's 25.7% on Steam, but around 2% of steam users are MR 29 and 30 as well. Put your thinking caps on 😄)

And achievments have nothing do do at all with actual concurrent numbers. In fact, you using low playtime as a counter argument for my numbers is hilarious since if it had an actual effect on concurrent numbers it would be in favor of the examples I give since less far less players would actually be active on Steam compared to what I said.

Steam is already made up of unique Steam accounts aswell as SA accounts having tied their Steam account to their WF account to get access to their wallet to buy Tennogen. So there is already a very high logical reasoning in that Steam is the smaller part of the two. As Padre pointed out, the game was around for a long time on a single launcher.

We also have number in balck and white (or whatever color combination you use on your screen) regarding total number of Steam users out of the 50m+ that have a registered WF account. A good chunk of them overlap. Very likely the majority of founders are part of those numbers aswell, simply by enabling the option to get tennogen when it was introduced, even though they (not all) still stick to the SA launcher.

But still, those percentages you show mean jack, because it has no bearing on concurrent numbers, which are what we see on the steam chart and what the discussion is about. Plain and simple numbers that arent really hard to add up if you have any knowledge or experience whatsoever with gaming statistics and trends over the last 20-25 years.

[YazMatazO]

On 2019-11-10 at 11:09 PM, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Warframe has been dropping in and out of steams top 10 since Destiny 2 went free to play. This update didn’t bring players back. I’m worried this update did more harm then good..  Lets hope the new war and Empyrean are Great… But how long can the player basic wait. And will the wait be worth it. ? https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

What he said... I know when my PC comes back from repairs I'll be hopping back in that Gambit Prime...

[Loza03]

50 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Perfect example of strawman. You are not even adressing what I said. 

What I said is, whether the content is designed to be repetitive or not, the more new features it has, the longer it will take to become repetitive.

POE was the first open world(meaning an experience nothing like before), introduced new mission types, enemies and boss fights(Eidolons). So when it first came out, it was a fully fresh experience.

Grinding for Kuva Liches are not a fresh experience because you are running regular star chart missions in the same tilesets against the same enemies.

 

The point I've been making this entire time is a strawman to your response to that point?

Quote

The Old Blood's major problems are the exact same as PoE's or the Sacrifice's - it's the core gameplay string of those updates, and nothing else, leading to repetitive, linear experiences that subsequently need to artificially inject grind to make up for the lack of replayability because the thing needed to be out now instead of offering alternate pathways, side content, or even a more well-integrated progression system.

Intentionally or otherwise, it is your argument - that PoE is not designed repetitively and linearly on release because it was new - that was a straw man response to my argument - that Old Blood and PoE are both designed very linearly and thus are much more repetitive.

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

I think we're up to three-thousand two-hundred and thirty-six since this Monday.

I think at this point, it could be argued that Warframe itself is the game equivalent of a LIch: A creature incapable of truly dying because its soul has bound to an inanimate object via spells and rituals to preserve it.

So if Warframe is a Lich...what's the object its soul is bound to? [DE] Steve's mouse? ^{Seriously, y'all should see it. It looks like something that's been dug up after many years.}

On topic: While I don't think that Warframe is "dying" per say, I don't think it's doing as well as it could or should be and feel that it's in a bit of a decline.

Yes I agree that new, fresh content is needed on a regular basis for an F2P to survive and do well, but when that content also comes with bugs, lots of grind and / or other issues, that can put off a significant number of people.

[beaker_redux]

I quit warframe the day Destiny 2 came out. 
I was MR 27, had everything, and was bored.  
Warframe is an excellent chess game, but once I learned all the game modes and meta for them, it’s not fun any more.  Defense is boring. Exterminate is stale.  Interception is boring.  
 

I have most everything for Destiny 2 now, but I still play it for fun. 
1. strikes like savathun’s song have amazing replay because I love the story so much.  
2. PVP.  It’s broken in a lot of way, but still has some fun. Iron Banana and Mayhem can be a lot of fun.  I tried PVP in Warfame a dozen times and could never find an opponent. 
3. Raids.  Cooperation is fun. 
4. it’s difficult.  The epic reprises of strikes like The Arms Dealer are memorable cause of the difficulty.  And I don’t mean “baddies hit harder”.  There’s actual modifiers and additional  features.  When’s the last time anyone gave two cents for the modifiers in warframe?  Never except for reduced energy.   The only difficulty I ever had in warframe was the final boss in the Inaros quest.  
 

Destiny has a ton of warts.  But, even without the lure of loot, I still find myself playing for the sake of playing.

the only time I *ever* played warframe for the sake of playing was when I’d go to Earth>Lith so I could flex my frames for the noobs.   That’s it.  
 

I don’t miss warframe.  

The riven nerfs just pissed me off. All that time invested and every quarter you would trash my effort with nerfs.  I don’t miss that.
 

kuva farming SUCKS.  Anyone who disagrees is a liar looking to curry favor with the DE babes.

The grinding for 6 hours to get a void only relic just to have a 30% chance to get a part?  I don’t miss that.  

Meh.  I’m don’t ranting.  The only reason I came here is cause it showed up in my google feed.  
 

cheerios. 
 

 

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

14 hours ago, Corvid said:

Warframe is not exclusive to Steam, while Destiny is.

The charts you cite are misleading.

And what in the last month has suddenly caused half the playerbase to play warframe outside of steam?

The narrative you are spinning is weak.

[Troposphere6]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

And what in the last month has suddenly caused half the playerbase to play warframe outside of steam?

The narrative you are spinning is weak.

Your assuming that the steam portion of the player base is bigger than the not steam portion...