Dear Nyx players; how do you feel about her rework after Wukong and Vauban?

[Urthehmiel]

Can't help but wonder if Nyx players might feel slighted considering how much better Wukong and Vauban have gotten.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

I have been playing Warframe for awhile and I can honestly say I have not seen a Nyx player in a single game. I think Nyx entire kit should be changed. This whole mind control ability set isn’t working. But if we have to insist on keeping it. I feel like the her 1st ability duration should be removed & give her the ability to primarily control 2 targets. Not sure what changes the rest of her kit could use. I just primarily think her 1st ability could use some changing again

[Hixlysss]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

I have been playing Warframe for awhile and I can honestly say I have not seen a Nyx player in a single game. I think Nyx entire kit should be changed. This whole mind control ability set isn’t working. But if we have to insist on keeping it. I feel like the her 1st ability duration should be removed & give her the ability to primarily control 2 targets. Not sure what changes the rest of her kit could use. I just primarily think her 1st ability could use some changing again

Specially when there are other frames that do it just as good, if not better. Enthrall is amazingly useful, and then Loki with radiating disarm is basically chaos. And yeah, I agree that her whole kit needs a looking over, but so far I love her psychic bolts, I just wish we could add more bolts somehow. DE needs to choose between Mind Control or Chaos, not both, as the "Mental Dominator" she should honestly be able to mind control up to like...4 guys(or make it a toggle power that increases drain per mind controlled target), then give her a self buff/survival power because she is *way too squish* with such low armor.

[alseltas]

I don’t think Vauban rework is not completed yet, but Nyx beside Titania is worse than those succesful reworked frames. Poor cc, poor survivability, and poor protection for objects, compared to many frames, are taking her place in all the game.  No where she can shine. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by alseltas

[Lone_Dude]

I've been playing for 6 years so far and at some point I stopped playing as Nyx entirely. However, after she got her "reworks" I tried to play as her again. Fed her some Forma, tried out her augments and did some sorties with her. She feels very squishy and restrictive.

Even with Chaos up your chances of getting deleted by a stray molotov/rocket/ignis blast/lanka shot are extremely high. Having to hide in her 4 helps, but it certainly doesn't feel good. 2 is just meh, number of enemies it affects is limited, having to cancel it in order to cast on new targets doesn't help either. Her 1 is basically an AI specter that you have to waste your time on in order to boost damage. Passive is basically RNG-based "you might not get shot" - useless.

You can certainly survive while playing as her, keep objectives alive through cc, provide weak debuffing with 2. Problem is, a lot of other frames do that and then some. And they're also easier, more active and more fun to use.

I don't even know how to fix her properly without changing up her theme completely. Giving her DR instead of a damage buff after using 4 - works great, but she'll become one of those 90% DR frames then. Making it so that enemies affected by 3 ignore her completely and only attack each other and other players will basically turn it into a neutered invisibility and won't solve the problem of stray shots. Her 2 should be recastable at very least. And her 1 should have something over Revenants 1 lmao, right now I'm not bothering with it since in most situations, even if you boost your puppet up to 1500% additional damage, its still a dumb useless AI puppet.

[Ailith]

I played Nyx for years and she used to be one of my favorite frames, I barely touch her anymore because other frames suit her role better and she's just too damn squishy (that 50 armor may as well be 0).

Her passive is only worth mentioning because of how not worth mentioning it actually is, a 20% enemy accuracy debuff doesn't translate to any noticeable benefit whatsoever. It feels like enemies are able to damage her just as much as any other frame. It would be nice to see this turned into something like a literal damage negation chance. For example, give it a base chance to negate damage (20%), but it stacks based on how many of Nyx's abilities are currently active (say, up to 50% or 60%). Anything with a more tangible effect would be better, honestly.

Mind Control only really acts as a minor distraction at best, especially since the AI is generally too dumb/slow to keep up with you. Even with the Mind Freak augment (+500% damage) and laying into the target during the cast period, the unit's damage output generally isn't worth the ammo unless it's a high-dps unit like a Scorch or something. The buff mechanic also feels like a lose/lose because you either don't damage the target and simply have a pet AI or you pump damage into it, maybe get a few AI kills, then the unit dies immediately when MC wears off. Friendly AI definitely needs serious tuning in general (don't even get me started on Equinox's Duality clone) and I think MC targets need to be much more deadly or offer some kind of utility. For example, give special bonuses for controlling higher "tiers" of enemies or something, like controlling a Commander or Tech or Ancient will rally a small squad of lesser enemies to fight with them for the duration. Controlling a lesser enemy on its own could significantly increase its damage output or share Nyx's elemental damage (taking from her primary, secondary, or melee, based on the unit's weapon type).

The armor/shield strip on Psychic Bolts is great because it means you can build for health damage and deal with pretty much any enemy, no hassle, but removing the Radiation damage means Nyx has to almost entirely rely on her weapons for damage output. Not only that, but you need to use Bolts frequently to actually make use of it so you're gonna be hurting for energy (I don't have crazy arcanes or anything). Again, it just doesn't feel great to use, imo. Even though the damage wasn't very high before, it was good enough to make quick work of weaker enemies or create smaller, cheaper instances of "Chaos" due to the Radiation proc. I think it should get a damage component again, at the very least.

Chaos is Chaos, but enemies will still target Nyx and objectives if they wander close enough, so it often feels like you're working with a false sense of security. Instead of hitting 3 and giving yourself a breather, it feels more like a stressful mini game where you have to push the fight away from you or risk dying. Actual de-prioritization of Nyx and her allies is a must for future versions of Chaos, it's completely counter-intuitive to the psychic/mind control theme if Nyx is allowing enemies to still target her and her fellow Tenno. Aside from the target limit, Revenant's Thrall is just straight-up better in terms of functionality.

Absorb...I haven't liked Absorb since they removed the dynamic damage (which they later gave to Revenant). Sitting in one spot is boring (you're also probably going to die shortly after releasing) and using the augment to move at 50% speed feels like a waste of a mod slot. At best, it's a "gimme a second so I can knock you down and run away" button. I think it should either be turned into a more offensive ability with more non-augment mobility or turned into something more defensive like a heal. Hell, maybe it could be both. Put an 'overshield' effect around all allies, it reduces and absorbs a % of damage taken, tap 4 to release it as a radial dynamic damage burst from each ally or hold 4 to convert the damage into a heal for all allies. Maybe that's cutting too much into Trinity's kit, but it's just an idea.

A lot of this is reiterating on what Lone_Dude said, but it really feels like Nyx's kit is still a product of a different time and the band-aid fixes came with too many drawbacks to justify any benefit they brought. She either needs major changes to her current kit or a complete overhaul to bring her in-line with newer frames.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Ailith

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

I feel like Scott should rework her, not Pablo.

[AzureTerra]

In the middle. Wukong is an astounding rework, Vauban not so much. 

[Roboplus]

It's functional. I still play her sometimes.

But it's also Assimilate or go home. And that requires a melee with a long/fast block+forward lunge to get around without awkwardly switching back and forth between Operator. And even then you can't jump up a knee-high ledge, or stand up if you activated it while crouched.

Mind Control is garbage unless it's used on an Ancient Healer.

Chaos isn't bad. But the prevalence of Drones and Nullifiers makes it much less effective against Corpus.

Bolts aren't bad on a per cast basis (it's instant, homing, multi-target, low Power Strength, armor removal). But Corpus don't need it. Infested are too numerous for only 7 targets. And recasting it removes the effect on all previous targets.

It's okay for a frame to have a move that you might not use against every faction (or at all). But apart from Assimilate Absorb, Nyx entire kit is just situational powers. Most of the time I just Assimilate, whip lunge around, and shotgun things. Effective for what it does provide (invulnerability with a gun out that can overlap a defense target), but not very interesting in this meta.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Her rework is just as disappointing regardless of how much better the reworks were for other frames.

Also while we’re on the topic. RIP Wukong. One update and his 4 is completely useless and his 1 lost 2 of its uses. Now he’s just a tank spy vault runner.

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Tatann]

If she gets the Wukong treatment, I'll be happy

If she gets the Vauban treatment, they'll give her a good damage dealing ability (not her/his role though) and ignore her survivability issue 😢

[ArcKnight9202]

I have no faith in a rework. The last offering was incredibly bad. I'd actually take the previous iteration with extra helpings of redundant(but different) forms of CC.

We'll just end up with an ability that negates damage, one that destroys armor, and some kind of stupid micro-management meter garbage. She's already almost this currently.

There are a lot of fun ideas flying around here for Nyx but I highly doubt any get used.

 

[Raqiya]

5 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

In the middle. Wukong is an astounding rework, Vauban not so much. 

Still leagues better than what Nyx got.

[Tatann]

17 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Still leagues better than what Nyx got.

Yes and no, Vauban got 2 good damage dealing abilities that scale, but Nyx got instant armor/shield removal, which also scales. And both have redundant CC.

I still prefer Vauban for his hard CC (when enemies aren't ignoring it), but Nyx has higher survivability (but not by much)

I'd be happy if they made her 1 deal damage like Wukong's 1 (mind controlled enemy could equip your weapon), that's not scaling but definitely better than 500% boost of the enemy damage.

 

[AzureTerra]

16 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Still leagues better than what Nyx got.

She remained more or less the same which is good because it works. Is big and flashy No, but it doesn't need to be if it does what it does well and she has always done confusion in the enemy ranks well. Assimilate probably should become a baseline part of Absorb and her one needs better AI functionality

[Raqiya]

9 minutes ago, Tatann said:

Yes and no, Vauban got 2 good damage dealing abilities that scale, but Nyx got instant armor/shield removal, which also scales. And both have redundant CC.

I still prefer Vauban for his hard CC (when enemies aren't ignoring it), but Nyx has higher survivability (but not by much)

I'd be happy if they made her 1 deal damage like Wukong's 1 (mind controlled enemy could equip your weapon), that's not scaling but definitely better than 500% boost of the enemy damage.

Vauban also got an armour strip and a armour buff with his Bastille, sure its not instant but they're CC'd and can't hit you anyway.

8 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

She remained more or less the same which is good because it works. Is big and flashy No, but it doesn't need to be if it does what it does well and she has always done confusion in the enemy ranks well. Assimilate probably should become a baseline part of Absorb and her one needs better AI functionality

That's the problem, she mostly remained the same. The rework did nothing to draw in new/old players to play Nyx. Her kit remains just as boring or perhaps even more so with the change to psychic bolts, sure it can strip armour 100% but there's literally nothing cool or interesting about it and Absorb is still a boring ability.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Raqiya

[Ikserdok]

Im just crying how all my skills on nyx are not for use at all....only bolts are fine for something like for disruption...to just strip all armor and shields from running demolysts to faster kill them while they are slowed by void blast from zenurik or slowed/stunned by other frame effectivelly

as when I want to use bolts on bigger group of enemies...its just annyoing useless...how many time I had situation with: I want to strip armor ef enemy from jsut in front of me so I will kill him faster as he is biggest threat to me and no, gtfo to me, all bolts are going to all enemies around, behind this enemy and so this enemy in fron of me still is tankly af and deal with it....this so limited and RNG targeting of bolts....its just pure ***

 

and chaos....good to use only if team is bad....to actually a bit disctract enemies from other mates/objective of mission while ressurecting mate or defending objective...but as I wrote...it have use only with bad teamates because every other player with even just a bit of exp in this game know what to do, what to use, how etc and so enemies would be or hardstunned with sure they are no treat anymore for longer duartion or are just killed very fast making it just outperfom ability like chaos which is for now very outdated for current game state and so in most cases just useless ability in this state while having many frames around created around current state of game

 

about mind control I have nothing to say....this was enough said about it in posts before here and similiar with absorb...absorb have no space in this game curent state especially without agument...without augment it is just proloning your death especially thanks to being very vulnerable of long animation after turning off this ability

and augment here...is jus very small bandaid for finger which is putted on big wound which need disinfection, operation and then stapling because of to how big wound this wound have expanded after so many changes in this game while staying for so much time not updated, like just left to decay so it could just finally die and be throwed into not even grave but to trashcan - this is how it feels also in overall playing this frame and its toolkit currently

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

She was my first warframe I ever crafted, and she's my second most used frame. 

- Mind Control, as it is, is mostly pointless. Enemy A.I. is terrible, and their damage scaling is pitiful against their own scaling health, even with a damage boost and fully stripped defense. I literally built a Catchmoon specifically for her to buff her target, I consistently get close to 1000% boost and it's not game changing to say the least. The buff period either needs to continue for their full control duration or give the target the "level scaled" damage boost that Grendel and Vauban abilities now have (A.I. rework would be preferred, but not holding my breath). Making them prioritize Psychic Bolts targets would be nice, at least for some way to influence them. 

- The new Psychic Bolts is awesome. My only issue is that it's pointless against low level enemies because they don't have enough stats worth stripping. Bringing back a small amount of damage wouldn't be overpowered and would help in lower levels. If the concern is about killing targets through walls, just limit the damage portion to line of sight only. 

- Chaos is good, aside from A.I. I'm still peeved about Loki blatantly stealing her signature ability though so I wouldn't hate if they added more to this. Again, giving enemies level based damage scaling is a good start (only against other enemies affected by Chaos), even if the buff has to ramp up (or down) over the course of its duration. 

- Absorb is still trash without the augment, but the weapon damage bonus was at least a minor QoL addition. Immediately after the rework I got a Nyx strength bonus Arbitration. I modded her for crazy power strength and went in excitedly. It still didn't do %#%@. The increased drain is bad, the damage is bad, the stationary passiveness of the base ability is pointless even as an emergency option since the aggro gets you killed immediately upon deactivation. It needs an overhaul or replacement. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-
Clarification

[Raqiya]

Just now, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

-Chaos is good, aside from A.I. I'm still peeved about Loki blatantly stealing her signature ability though so I wouldn't hate if they added more to this. Again... level based damage scaling is a good start, even if it has to ramp up (or down) over the course of its duration. 

Oberon does it too with hallowed ground... and any weapon with radiation 😛

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 minute ago, Raqiya said:

Oberon does it too with hallowed ground... and any weapon with radiation 😛

Hehe I'm not as concerned if weapons do it, and with Hallowed Ground it's only a chance per second.

With Loki it's specifically a guaranteed large radial confusion. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

I think we need to go the Ember route (for most caster frames anyway). I would drop the super hard CC in favor of damage, limited CC and a survivability tool that does not slow you to the speed of a turtle (with augment).

The hard AOE CC is a relic of the past, and does not work in much of the content. It is the corner stone of design for Nyx, Banshee, Mag amount many other frames. It needs to go, cuz it no longer works or have any point. 

[Raqiya]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I think we need to go the Ember route (for most caster frames anyway). I would drop the super hard CC in favor of damage, limited CC and a survivability tool that does not slow you to the speed of a turtle (with augment).

The hard AOE CC is a relic of the past, and does not work in much of the content. It is the corner stone of design for Nyx, Banshee, Mag amount many other frames. It needs to go, cuz it no longer works or have any point. 

... Hard CC is 100% not a relic of the past and casters shouldn't all be purely tied to damage output the in the same vein as Ember. Also CC isn't a cornerstone of Nyx.

[(PSN)thegarada]

52 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

... Hard CC is 100% not a relic of the past and casters shouldn't all be purely tied to damage output the in the same vein as Ember. Also CC isn't a cornerstone of Nyx.

Ya bud. Good luck CCing those arbitation drones and nullifiers. While I maw them down with a frame like Gauss in 1-2 secs. How about eidolon? No survivability or damage. ESO? No damage. Stupid sortie modifiers, level 100 assassinations, level 120 Kuva Liches? I do not think so. And yes, CC is the cornerstone of Nyx. Chaos is the only reason anyone would even consider her.  

Hard CC is absolutely dead, and all frames that rely on for survivability have no survivability. So, feel free to go farm these level 35 mobs on Sedna or Pluto and CC the whole map.

Edited December 17, 2019 by (PS4)thegarada

[Tatann]

3 hours ago, Raqiya said:

Vauban also got an armour strip and a armour buff with his Bastille, sure its not instant but they're CC'd and can't hit you anyway.

That's the problem, she mostly remained the same. The rework did nothing to draw in new/old players to play Nyx. Her kit remains just as boring or perhaps even more so with the change to psychic bolts, sure it can strip armour 100% but there's literally nothing cool or interesting about it and Absorb is still a boring ability.

I agree but armor stripping (and buff) speed is linked to strength, forcing you to build for strength (or at least avoid Overextended, which he could easily use when he was pure CC)

With a shorter (in range and duration) Bastille, he needs even more range and duration than before (especially with a 10 second armor buff), while Nyx abilities have good base duration/range

[Anthraxicus]

Was there a rework? I thought she had some improvements. Except for the 2nd ability, which became a armor/shield debuff, the rest is pretty much the same. 4th continues to be a gimmick if modded exclusive for its augment. Third is the exact same. 1st ability now has a built-in augment on top of the same augment, which isn't great to begin with. 

 

She needs some more. If her 1st must stay that way, I'd suggest making it permanent, or at least add the option to recast on the same target, so you can mantain high value targets (Eximus, Ancients etc.) with you.