Dear Nyx players; how do you feel about her rework after Wukong and Vauban?

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

I like Nyx she is definitely somewhat viable maybe even barely but she’s alot more than people make her out to be

I I find Nyx to already have a good foundation her abilities she just need to be updated to fit the current state of the game 

her 4 However is her most polarizing ability. It’s not beneficial unless you mod specifically for assimilate sacrificing your chaos build. I believe in changing this ability into anything else that doesn’t help her survivability unless it’s a safeguard 

Her 1 I find lack luster in damage, add a way to control where the mind controlled goes and who they attack/follow to make use any buffs they might have, I also heard of making the target explode when the duration ends counting stored damage, another spitball here but some sort of link that redirects fatal damage from nyx to her mind controlled target similar to loki’s safe gaurd switch which ties into her form of survivability which I will go into 

Her 2 incentives weapons as a main source of dps not her abilities which is fair but getting rid of the reset would be wonders you could also due by putting the aug into the base ability and removing damage entirely  

For her 3 I will be discussing her survivability. Nyx works off evasion I think a safegaurd tied to her 1 would be best as it fits her more since loki already has invisibility. Her 3 already is pretty good for what she is I wouldn’t change it except making her aug part of the ability starting at 100% or make make chaos induced enemies deal more damage which will be a double edge sword for nyx but with safeguard and her already low stats it’s not a big deal as you how much damage enemies do but how likely they will hit you

Frames like banshee, nyx and titania  I believe for their method of survivability lack a form a safeguard that acts a recovery while their usage of evasion stalls out for their safeguard condition to refresh and not only that survivability that works off evasion goes into the risk vs reward dilemma making it more reasonable for nyx to lose some of her restrictions and to be more useful with her abilities 

Edited December 17, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[Raqiya]

2 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Ya bud. Good luck CCing those arbitation drones and nullifiers. While I maw them down with a frame like Gauss in 1-2 secs. How about eidolon? No survivability or damage. ESO? No damage. Stupid sortie modifiers, level 100 assassinations, level 120 Kuva Liches? I do not think so. And yes, CC is the cornerstone of Nyx. Chaos is the only reason anyone would even consider her.  

Hard CC is absolutely dead, and all frames that rely on for survivability have no survivability. So, feel free to go farm these level 35 mobs on Sedna or Pluto and CC the whole map.

CC is dead as a pure form of defence and its usefulness is greatly diminished during what we call endgame, but its very much still useful for the other parts of the game such as general progression through the game where the amount of CC immune enemies are far less prominent. While I agree that CC has diminishing returns for Arbitrations and is outright useless for Boss fights(Including Eidolon Hunts) but it can be useful for ESO, Kuva Lich Missions ad Sorties.

In ESO If you have an ability such as Khora's 2 (The Pull) you can draw in scattered enemies or with Vauban's 4 (Vortex) pull them in as they spawn decreasing kill times.

Kuva Lich missions play a lot like regular missions with the exception of a couple of CC immune enemies being the thralls. Besides those you can CC every other enemy including the Kuva Lich (Khora's 2 works on Kuva Lichs) making a mission a lot easier for your team for gamemodes such as Interception and mobile defence. 

Much like Kuva Lich missions Sorties play a lot like regular gamemodes meaning many of the enemies can be CC'd bypassing the need to kill anything for gamemodes such as Interception and mobile defence.

As for Nyx, most players use/build her for Hamster ball and armour stripping potential not Chaos.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Raqiya

[Howtoshootgun]

12 hours ago, Ailith said:

Her passive is only worth mentioning because of how not worth mentioning it actually is, a 20% enemy accuracy debuff doesn't translate to any noticeable benefit whatsoever

Nail in the coffin. Hows that added oh so great extra dps from mind controlled enemies now that they dont lose their guns? Doesnt matter squat? Oh no! And then they replace it with this. I mean its workable, once upon a time there were no passives so it be just like that again, yay. Still pisses me off. The rest of the rework stuff is so-so but this one demonstrated just such a lack of understanding.

Problem is DE and the "CC is dead" crowd have joined forces - you can escape the "dont use CC it makes everything slower just kill everything" whining by playing solo but if the developer itself reinforces that and actively designs against the playstyle, welp.

Bring back the old passive. Work an aggro manipulation mechanic into the skills - like mind controlled enemies having a higher threat rating and being targeted more/preferably. Stuff like that. No effortpost, feedback got ignored even when they didnt have a spaceship update to sort out.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 hours ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

I have no faith in a rework. The last offering was incredibly bad. 

It was bad because they let the person who designed Revenants abilities make the Nyx rework.

[EinheriarJudith]

On 2019-12-16 at 10:29 PM, Soul-Frame said:

Can't help but wonder if Nyx players might feel slighted considering how much better Wukong and Vauban have gotten.

your first mistake is comparing a frame whose exalted weapon became trash with melees rework who is also not a CC frame. vaubans imo changed nothing. since i dont like ability wheel gimmicks i dont use mine layer, and its sad that i can do that. it means his kit is completely functional without one of his signature skills. vauban also requires Natural talent or else you get swiss cheese with those over exaggerated animations.

[bubbabenali]

Am 17.12.2019 um 04:29 schrieb Soul-Frame:

Can't help but wonder if Nyx players might feel slighted considering how much better Wukong and Vauban have gotten.

Yeah, they're nearly as usable as Nyx now.

[EinheriarJudith]

7 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

Yeah, they're nearly as usable as Nyx now.

for me all the exalted melee weapons frames only have 3 powers. 1, 2, and 3

Edit: correction excal and valkyr only have 2.

Edited December 18, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[bubbabenali]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb EinheriarJudith:

for me all the exalted melee weapons frames only have 3 powers. 1, 2, and 3

Edit: correction excal and valkyr only have 2.

Get Eternal War and Valkyr has only one, that you only need once - and she is still one of the best frames for survival missions.

[EinheriarJudith]

47 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

Get Eternal War and Valkyr has only one, that you only need once - and she is still one of the best frames for survival missions.

i wouldnt brag about that (even though thats how i play her ^_^) if the frame has 4 skills they should at the very least have situational use. otherwise why even have them right?

[ArcKnight9202]

10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It was bad because they let the person who designed Revenants abilities make the Nyx rework.

What is funny to me, is that Revenant can play almost identically to the pre-rework Nyx. At least solo. If you think about Mind Control and Chaos being rolled into Enthrall and Assimilate(which I never actually used) being Mesmer Skin, it's pretty similar. This is a battlefield-domination style, not a destruction-oriented style. It's not for everyone but I enjoy it.

Sure, he can't strip armor, not that I ever cared, but he can take %hp off enemies at any level. I don't really need to use this either but it's there.

Revenant has all but replaced Nyx for me. If he could disarm enemies he'd be pretty rad, haha.

[Tatann]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

your first mistake is comparing a frame whose exalted weapon became trash with melees rework who is also not a CC frame. vaubans imo changed nothing. since i dont like ability wheel gimmicks i dont use mine layer, and its sad that i can do that. it means his kit is completely functional without one of his signature skills. vauban also requires Natural talent or else you get swiss cheese with those over exaggerated animations.

You know you can switch his minelayer to the one mine that suits you at the start of the mission and then use it as any regular ability

I do it all the time, and barely switch mid session (of course it's easy when one mine is just for troll/meme and another a tiny damage boost impractical to use on allies)

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Tatann said:

You know you can switch his minelayer to the one mine that suits you at the start of the mission and then use it as any regular ability

I do it all the time, and barely switch mid session (of course it's easy when one mine is just for troll/meme and another a tiny damage boost impractical to use on allies)

nothing in mine layer suits me. they are imo unnecessary. if i want to use flechette i can just use azima, if i want to use tether, i can just use vortex. dont need overdriver or troll pad. i play vauban as if his 2 doesnt even exist and nothing is lost. atleast in the case of ivara dashwire, sleep arrow, and cloak arrow really changes up her gameplay. will never like ability wheels in games. they are just pointless busy work to make you think your doing something interactive when its just extra button presses. wisp is guilty of this too.

DE's problem is that of not fixing core problems so likely every frame is going to turn into a boring DPS frame.

Edit: wouldnt bother me in the slightest if they just replaced mine layer with photon strike and put bastille back on 3.

Edited December 18, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[alseltas]

21 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nothing in mine layer suits me. they are imo unnecessary. if i want to use flechette i can just use azima, if i want to use tether, i can just use vortex. dont need overdriver or troll pad. i play vauban as if his 2 doesnt even exist and nothing is lost. atleast in the case of ivara dashwire, sleep arrow, and cloak arrow really changes up her gameplay. will never like ability wheels in games. they are just pointless busy work to make you think your doing something interactive when its just extra button presses. wisp is guilty of this too.

DE's problem is that of not fixing core problems so likely every frame is going to turn into a boring DPS frame.

Edit: wouldnt bother me in the slightest if they just replaced mine layer with photon strike and put bastille back on 3.

People usually don’t have Azima, and flechette damage scales with enemy lvl. However I agree with the rest. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by alseltas

[Harutomata]

I like Nyx's theme, but I personally feel like she could use some rework.

(Mostly quoting myself from an other Nyx thread)
Mind Control: it can neutralize a stronger enemy for longer time, and if used on some targets, they could help your squad too. Mind Freak can make them do more damage, but is it worth a mod slot? Arguable. Currently not affected by Ability Strength unless you replace some mod for the augment.

On 2019-12-17 at 4:49 AM, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

I feel like the her 1st ability duration should be removed & give her the ability to primarily control 2 targets. Not sure what changes the rest of her kit could use. I just primarily think her 1st ability could use some changing again

Plus this. Putting Mind Control on an enemy puts you in the hassle of having to replace it, and the risk of it damaging you. It's just extra headache.
Psychic Bolt: I don't find myself using this ability that often since I'm in negative ability strength. Its augment provides a stun, which probably would have been better off being baked into the ability itself. You can strip armor but so can corrosive procs. You can strip shields, but then again you can just use toxin and bypass them entirely. Currently there's not much initiative to use it. Especially when you use Overextended to have Chaos cover a bigger area, this ability simply doesn't provide enough to make Ability Strength desirable for it. I'd suggest it provide some more utility, eg: have stripped armor give you and your squad a temporary armor buff, have stripped shield provide overshields (or have armor strip do the same), and have Ancient Infested auras you strip stolen as a radial aura buff, opposed to it just being completely removed. Or/and have the ability restore some energy for you and your squad. Nyx is currently more about CC than support, and I feel like she has both the rights and space to improve on the latter in a rework.
Chaos:  The CC isn't immaculate which is a big fault when it comes to a warframe with such low armor. I don't like how affected targets still go after the interception consoles, but if they didn't, it would probably make the game mode too easy to cheese? I'm not sure. Also I don't like how lone enemies still can attack you while they are affected. Not affected by ability strength right now, which is fine. I could imagine it making enemies do more damage to each other while being affected by it, but it'd be maybe negligible.
Absorb: I don't like lack of mobility without the augment, and with the augment on, you still feel pretty slow, but the invulnerability is cool. I really feel like it should be an exilus mod. Alternatively it could be a decoy for enemies to shoot on and not binding you in one spot. Questionable whether Ability Strength is desirable for this or not. I feel like people rather go for the invulnerability with assimilate rather than the absorbed damage, but assimilate doesn't feel satisfying to use to begin with due to its movement speed reduction. Space ninjas should be running, not taking a walk. Maybe it could be changed in a way to be more useful, or being used more conveniently?

However it should also not turn into Vauban where you can't prioritize any stat because you need all of them for any build.

The problem with CC frames are that they don't have many uses. People rather kill enemies than CC them, and there's not much content in the game where CC is required to survive either. Then there are also a bunch of niche game mechanics which are meant to make damage dealer frames' work harder, eg nullifiers or arbitration drones, but they also completely shut down CC frames' only means of defending themselves. Which let's be real, is a pretty awful design. Tank frames usually have high armor or health (or in case of Hildryn, shields) besides possible buffs to defend themselves. Even the majority of damage dealer frames are less squishy than Nyx, and kinda Vauban too, considering his only survival tool is the bastille armor buff which has a laughably short duration (suggested some changes for Vauban here and there, you could check them out, it doesn't fit in this topic though). The only time I use Nyx is some arbitration missions, and even there she doesn't quite shine because arbitration drones just shut down the only thing you're thematically meant to be good at. She's useful at toroid farms, but you can only imagine how much initiative there is to do that when you crafted pretty much everything you need toroids for, for a long time.
Yeah you can avoid a nullifier bubble, but the enemies hiding inside it will not be suspect to crowd control. Same goes for arbitration drones. I feel like when a warframe's main theme is crowd control itself, it'd be a sensible design choice to make some ability whitelist that can override such things. For Nyx and maybe Vauban atleast (and maybe few more CC abilities). Because currently it punishes you far more than it punishes any other warframe, which have better kits to not get screwed over by such mechanics. You're not a damage dealer frame, you're not a tank frame. Your only defense and offense is crowd control, and it shouldn't be shut down just like that. It messes with dps and tanky frames too, but damage dealers can still wreck with things which aren't directly cast on the enemy, and tank frames still get to keep their survivability, unless they hit the nullifier, but even then they have more passive defenses, and so do dps frames. Tldr: These mechanics hit CC frames than anyone else, and they already have less purpose in a game than the others. Some change has to be done.

Speaking of outshining, I was considering bringing Nyx to Railjack missions to invade enemy crewships and objectives. Then I figured why use her imperfect Chaos, when I can just have a perfect stealth on Loki? Some frames shine better at some things than the rest, but currently Nyx doesn't particularly shine at anything. She could shine by providing more survivability for her team on arbies with her CC, if it was a perfect CC, and if the drones didn't unfairly punish her more than they punish any other warframe. She could shine in interception missions, if it wasn't for the enemies still going for the consoles. She could shine at defense missions and mobile defense, but her CC is again imperfect, so she won't be more ideal than a warframe with abilities to defend an objective. Excavations? Same thing. For a second I wondered if Chaos blocks the cameras on corpus spy missions, so I went and tested it and it doesn't. Tested with Sensor Regulators too, first they didn't detect me at all, then they suddenly did with Chaos still being on them, the ability proving to be imperfect again. So she doesn't shine at Spy missions either, which is obviously meant for stealth frames anyway, but it would have been fun if she had some uses on one. Rescue missions? Guess what, instead the enemy thinking you're on their side thanks to Nyx's CC, they just alert instead. Her CC could make the operative less likely to die, but people will just bring speed frames anyway.
Let's say Chaos was reworked to be more useful, defense frames would still be better at defending objectives which is fine, that's where they are meant to shine and Nyx shouldn't outshine them. And stealth frames would still be the go to frames to do Spy missions. However it'd be an alternative but less efficient or complementing frame for some tasks for people playing Nyx. And the other rework ideas would make her bring even more utility to her squad, therefore making her more desirable to have on a squad on various kinds of missions.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nothing in mine layer suits me. they are imo unnecessary.

I would still like his Minelayer to just be replaced, but I have learned of use for 2 of the abilities (suggestions from others on the forums).

The Flechette has scaling damage based on enemy level (which all primarily damage focused abilities in the game should do) and it has good duration so I will throw them out periodically to take out enemies that are stunlocked or approaching an area. It works pretty well as a cheaper alternative to Orbital Strike if you throw it down next to a Vortex.

Tether is actually useful to pull enemies into Bastille in order to trigger the armor build-up. Other than that though it has failed me in every other situation I've tried to benefit from it.

Overdriver is pretty bad considering how little of a buff it is and how many times you're expected to cast it. I'd use it if were made to provide that buff as a large aura around the target it attaches to, or if it is going to stay single target it needs a much higher buff.

Vector Pad, like Bounce Pad, should just die. Just like Bounce Pad both the enemy and player interaction is bad. It's not frequently helpful and no one has the time, energy, or interest for the "perfect mouse trap" gimmick expected of it to synergize with his other CC.

[Tatann]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nothing in mine layer suits me. they are imo unnecessary. if i want to use flechette i can just use azima, if i want to use tether, i can just use vortex. dont need overdriver or troll pad. i play vauban as if his 2 doesnt even exist and nothing is lost. atleast in the case of ivara dashwire, sleep arrow, and cloak arrow really changes up her gameplay. will never like ability wheels in games. they are just pointless busy work to make you think your doing something interactive when its just extra button presses. wisp is guilty of this too.

DE's problem is that of not fixing core problems so likely every frame is going to turn into a boring DPS frame.

Edit: wouldnt bother me in the slightest if they just replaced mine layer with photon strike and put bastille back on 3.

I challenge your Azima (in "turret" mod) to do as much damage as Flechette against level 100 enemies 😉

And for 25 second (base duration), which would end up burning all your ammo 

Also, you should try Tether Grenade in Index. I know it's not a hard game mode, but Tether Grenade makes it even easier. Too bad it doesn't work against Demolishers in Disruption 😢

[(PSN)thegarada]

20 hours ago, Raqiya said:

CC is dead as a pure form of defence and its usefulness is greatly diminished during what we call endgame, but its very much still useful for the other parts of the game such as general progression through the game where the amount of CC immune enemies are far less prominent. While I agree that CC has diminishing returns for Arbitrations and is outright useless for Boss fights(Including Eidolon Hunts) but it can be useful for ESO, Kuva Lich Missions ad Sorties.

In ESO If you have an ability such as Khora's 2 (The Pull) you can draw in scattered enemies or with Vauban's 4 (Vortex) pull them in as they spawn decreasing kill times.

Kuva Lich missions play a lot like regular missions with the exception of a couple of CC immune enemies being the thralls. Besides those you can CC every other enemy including the Kuva Lich (Khora's 2 works on Kuva Lichs) making a mission a lot easier for your team for gamemodes such as Interception and mobile defence. 

Much like Kuva Lich missions Sorties play a lot like regular gamemodes meaning many of the enemies can be CC'd bypassing the need to kill anything for gamemodes such as Interception and mobile defence.

As for Nyx, most players use/build her for Hamster ball and armour stripping potential not Chaos.

Sorties are not difficult by any means. And Kuva lich missions, only the level 4 and 5 need any really attention. And most of the the time, you can kill mobs way faster than you CC them. Granted, frames with AOE damage and AOE CC perform better in interception and mobile defense. But does that really matter? And for interception, if you have 4 players anyway, frames with high survivability work better, since one will sit on each point. Mobile defense, just bring a dome frame. And melee damage works so much better in post 100 territory, which is something Nyx cannot do. 

And as you stated, "CC is dead as a pure form of defense and its usefulness is greatly diminished during what we call endgame." Does the rest really matter? Just play a nuke frame. You do not need to CC dead enemies. 

And to be clear, Nyx is not the worst thing ever. She has some good tools, but they are no were close to enough. She is a fashion frame. I understand the appeal, I main Valkyr, which I primarily play also for fashion. Only difference, when S#&$ gets real, Valkyr is still usable. Nyx is not. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by (PS4)thegarada

[Kontrollo]

Some good things, some bad things. Of course Mind Control is a joke in comparison to Wuclone. Also, at least they could be convinced to remove that horrible hold-to-recast on her new 2. And fixed all the bugs they introduced with this rework. But I've talked about that enough in earlier threads anyway.

Now I just hope they at least give her Chaos as Tactical and not Mind Control. Seriously, what's their hard-on with Mind Control? Chaos is still where it's at, even if CC doesn't matter that much anymore these days. When I saw that, I simply switched to Oberon and others for Railjack.

 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Vector Pad, like Bounce Pad, should just die.

I beg to differ. Real men go to Gas City and bring only Vector Pads: 😉

(Gfycat seems to be screwed-up on the forums again, might have to click to see what's going on)

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

6 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I beg to differ. Real men go to Gas City and bring only Vector Pads: 😉

 

Did they ever fix the fact we don't get affinity or items from enemies that fall off the map? Might as well just ignore them and go to the objective if not.

Edit: You're also better off just casting Vortex on one of those pillars to pull all enemies off the ledge. lol

Edited December 18, 2019 by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-

[Renegade343]

5 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I beg to differ. Real men go to Gas City and bring only Vector Pads: 😉

That just seems like Hammer Heavy Attack with extra steps.

[(NSW)DEADSHOT500]

Who else thinks chaos is an ability better suited to mirage considering the theme of the frames. Nyx is mind control but enemies still shoot you if you get close enough. However, as a Mirage ability, it's like they are actually seeing a mirage until they get close enough to realize they were mistaken.

Edited December 18, 2019 by (NSW)DEADSHOT500

[Kontrollo]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Did they ever fix the fact we don't get affinity or items from enemies that fall off the map? Might as well just ignore them and go to the objective if not.

Edit: You're also better off just casting Vortex on one of those pillars to pull all enemies off the ledge. lol

7 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

That just seems like Hammer Heavy Attack with extra steps.

Everyone's a critic.

 

[Renegade343]

1 minute ago, Kontrollo said:

Everyone's a critic.

 

I mean, there's truth to it.

[Kontrollo]

Just now, Renegade343 said:

I mean, there's truth to it.

It was a joke, ok?

Let me spell it out for you:

J-o-k-e.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, Kontrollo said:

Everyone's a critic

I was honestly asking for the answer lol. I tried researching but couldn't find anything.

Last I checked (years ago) we didn't get affinity or items from those deleted enemies. If that has changed then I'll gladly change my stance on those abilities (Vector Pad and Mag's Pull). Otherwise, in a game that is exclusively about grinding affinity and resources...I'll pass. Lol