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Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them


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vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PS4)ForNoPurpose:

I dont wanna distract from ashs real issues..

But try a fatal teleport build with max range marked for death.

Its glorious

 

It's already hard enough to explain some people that the seeking shuriken augment is uselss for Ash, because passive. But seriously what can be said against this combi? It kills everything in a high range with minimum effort. People will now run trough the streets and claim that Ash is perfect/ God tier.

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1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

It's already hard enough to explain some people that the seeking shuriken augment is uselss for Ash, because passive. But seriously what can be said against this combi? It kills everything in a high range with minimum effort. People will now run trough the streets and claim that Ash is perfect/ God tier.

It dosent nuke the map so people won’t care

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vor 26 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

It dosent nuke the map so people won’t care

After the wiki has marked fof death a basic range of 10m. With max range we have 28m.  Fatal teleport will still deal 100% of the stealth damage if there's no mod to counter the reduced ability stregth. Add streamline, fleeting expertise and Primed contuinity and we have our frame who can always inflict very high damage in a very large area.

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5 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

After the wiki has marked fof death a basic range of 10m. With max range we have 28m.  Fatal teleport will still deal 100% of the stealth damage if there's no mod to counter the reduced ability stregth. Add streamline, fleeting expertise and Primed contuinity and we have our frame who can always inflict very high damage in a very large area.

You’re very right but even before then ash had daggers plus fatal teleport  which arguably was one of the most broken things I game. Yet because of the limiting if only one target at a time people didn’t care

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

You’re very right but even before then ash had daggers plus fatal teleport  which arguably was one of the most broken things I game. Yet because of the limiting if only one target at a time people didn’t care

 But it's not one target at a time anymore. It's attack one target and inflict the same damage to all targets in x meters.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

You’re very right but even before then ash had daggers plus fatal teleport  which arguably was one of the most broken things I game. Yet because of the limiting if only one target at a time people didn’t care

Also may I add there are way more broken synergies with ash and the Helminth system (cough cough him and Garuda have the same synergies with wisp abilities) and make the map wide nuking potential of ash 10 fold

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Just now, ES-Flinter said:

 But it's not one target at a time anymore. It's attack one target and inflict the same damage to all targets in x meters.

Oh rlly? Didn’t read much into marked for death. Hopefully people will leave base ash alone then if they would like to play for nuking they have options to do such. And we could focus on a more ash centered rework that actually fits the theme of the frame! 

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

And we could focus on a more ash centered rework that actually fits the theme of the frame! 

Problem is, that it's seems to be impossible to find fitting abilities for a Ninja/ Assasin (very high damage| no/ very small aoe abilities) in a horde-shooter like Warframe. 🙁🙁🙁

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45 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Problem is, that it's seems to be impossible to find fitting abilities for a Ninja/ Assasin (very high damage| no/ very small aoe abilities) in a horde-shooter like Warframe. 🙁🙁🙁

IMHO I don’t think it’s hard but people want a ninja / assassin to perform like a galaxy nuking god of war that swings his finger and the entire map goes bye

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7 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I dont wanna distract from ashs real issues..

But try a fatal teleport build with max range marked for death.

Its glorious

 

Hear me out. Use it with savage silence instead. Or just get a friend and use all 3 because friendship is magic.

Edited by BansheePrime
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vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

IMHO I don’t think it’s hard but people want a ninja / assassin to perform like a galaxy nuking god of war that swings his finger and the entire map goes bye

Are you sure about that? If I ask you for an Ash revisit concept which isn't OP after modding, but has still a higher aoe potential than now (no cooldowns!) you can make it with ease?  Now I'm interested. Possible that you can share your ideas with me/ us?

Don't worry I'm not going to kill you if there's a problem. Well atleast not in RL.^^

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Honestly, if they're going to fix Ash, I want them to start by bugfixing Fatal Teleport.

Enemy is 1 cm off the ground because they're walking? No finisher.
Enemy is within arm's reach of a wall? No finisher.
Enemy is on the other side of an empty room? Teleport to the middle of the room for some reason, no finisher.

Fatal Teleport is my favourite ability in the whole game just because it's so fun, I just wish it would actually work consistently.

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Sorry for not reading ahead what's been posted lately but it's just a lot.

Just came back to the threat to share I recently changed Shuriken for Silence in my Ash build and it's aweseome.

Shuriken is known to be the weakest ability in the Ash kit so I used it with Seeking Shuriken equipped to clear the Steel Path chart and also in long (2h+) survivals to rip armor fast.

I'm using Savage Silence and along with my build this results in a boost of more than +600% finisher damage, which affects Blade Storm and Teleport (I always use Fatal Teleport as well, with an increase of +400% finisher damage).

This build is awesome.

 

[Edit] I also think it makes more sense for an ninja/assassin to use something like Silence, to cover his track and sneak around enemies :D

Edited by JimboOhara
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Vexx-info:

Hey guys this is just a recap of the things I have posted. I have chosen the ones that I think are either important and what you need to know.

 

Interactive Bladestorm animation idea

Spoiler

Interactive blade storm animation

If you don`t want to be in the animation, it will act as normal however if you decide to be involved in the animation, you have a chance to gain bonus duration of slash ticks and 1% animation speed increase in the next use however, you have to be interactive within the animation.

 

While in the animation;

·       You have to press the melee button in sink when his stabs enemies in the animation.

·       When doing so, there is an indicator showing the buffs and successful hits which will be converted into duration of slash ticks and animation speed increase.

·       The more successful hits you get the more animation speed you can get in the next use e.g. 10 successful hits = 10% animation speed.

·       The maximus slash duration bonus you can receive is 7 seconds.

·       If you jump out of bs you will lose the bonuses.

·       The bonuses slash tick duration will also include all weapon types. (even weapons that don’t have slash)

·       If you don`t interact with at least five animation cutscenes (depending on how many enemies affected) and get three successful hits, you will only deal half of bs damage. (2000 damage + no interaction = 1000 damage.

 

What my changes does for Ash

Spoiler

 With these changes, I`m going to list the new strategic ways Ash can be used in public and solo missions;

 

·       Casting multiple shurikens at enemies will be a small form of cc to slow them down.

·       If you are surrounded by enemies, you can Stun them with smoke screen which will give Ash and allies a 4 second window to kill them without any issues.

·       You can use the smoke on a dangerous enemy to keep the stunned longer and make it easy to kill with his 1st, 3,rd and 4th abilities, weapons and allies damage.

·       The smoke can be used to lock enemies down in doorways.

·       If an ally is in danger, they can stand inside the smoke making them unseen to enemies.

·       If you see an ally, enemy, npc, objects with a health bar or scannable object on the other side of the window, you can teleport to it which will cut down time instead of finding a way around it.

·       Ash can teleport and attack the capture target on Jupiter or any other unreachable enemy in the air.

·       In stealth gameplay if an enemy is in front of you and you want to get behind it, you can hold ability to teleport to the ground behind it to sneak past it or finish it off.

·       If you need a quick escape at a hight point, you can teleport onto a wall above ground and hang there for a short duration to shoot the enemies below.

·       If a player is down and you are in bs, you can deactivate the ability to revive your teammate.

 

Ash`s augment improvements

Spoiler

Based on my improvements to Ash, I have come up with some changes to his 2nd and 4th ability augments to make the both benefit Ash and allies.

 

Seeking Shuriken

·       This now strips enemies’ defences.

 

Smoke Shadow

·       Passive – smoke cloud has 5 seconds of duration.

·       It now affects npcs.

·       Depending on what elemental status affect(s) you have on your melee weapon will determine the smoke cloud`s affect e.g. toxic cloud.

·       The status affect will last twice as long.

 

Fatal Teleport

·       Passive - finisher speed increased by 75%

·       After killing an enemy, the next three enemies will be opened up to finishers whether they are alerted or not.

·       Enemies will be open to finishers until they are dead.

 

New: Marked blade

·       Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x mark on the ground which when standing on will give Ash and allies 40% critical chance and 40% running speed. Enemies that stand on it will be knocked down and be vulnerable to slash damage by 50% for 15 seconds.

·       The indicator of ally buff is shown on the top right of the screen.

·       The mark will last 20s until it disappears.

·       Mark duration can be increased by duration mods.

 

My petition for Ash

Spoiler

IMPORTANT

I have made a petition for DE to give Ash a revisit and to integrate my ideas to Ash. If you like my idea please support and share my petition so we can show DE how serious we are to giving Ash the revisit her deserves.

http://chng.it/TVJnXgZC

 

Ash gameplay in-depth

Spoiler

Hey guys, I have something special to show today. Here is a short video of some Ash gameplay. It`s will show how some of my ideas can be implemented to Ash`s abilities and will also show the pros and cons of teleport. Most people can`t imaging how warframe abilities would work by explanation so this video is to help you understand through visualisation. If you want more information, watch it on youtube and look in the description box, other than that I hope you enjoy the video.

 

Time stamps

Now each time stamp will show my ideas that can be implemented and some issues of the way it is currently which you can find when you look in the description box on youtube.

 

 

Ash bugs

Spoiler

IMPORTANT

One of the issues I have with Ash (amongst other things) is the inconsistency of his teleport not opening enemies up to finishers, it ruins stealth play coz if you teleport to an enemy and they are not opened up to finishers they will shoot at you making noise and alerting other enemies due to bad stealth mechanics plus the finisher button being separate from the attack button make things worse.

Instead of me making a post about Ash bugs and everyone adding to them post, I would like for you guys as a collective to send post about Ash`s bugs and issues he has so DE can fix them.

I have done this but as usual it hasn`t been addressed. If you can show video footage of his issues, this would be a big help to them and will let them know indefinitely that there is an issue.

 

Here is a list of bugs he has that I have noticed so far;

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

 

If you guys know of any other bugs Ash has let them know, if we send posts after posts of Ash bugs, they can`t ignore them and they have time (due to the current situation that we are in) and if they do ignore these issues, this will make them look bad and we will have leverage to say they don`t listen to feedback.

 

How to replicate my ideas in-game

Spoiler

Even though I have put up a video to show how my ideas for Ash would look if they were in game (look on page 7), If you want to experience what they would be like in-game here are somethings you can try out yourself to understand how they would work in practice no matter how big or small. People say a lot that an idea on paper is one thing but putting it in practise is another thing, the point of this is for you to experience what my ideas would be like in practise so I hope you enjoy trying them out for yourself.

 

Shuriken:

If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Go to a low-level mission and cast it on enemies and image getting the stealth bonus from it.

 

Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

·       Add arcane Arachne to add damage and arcane avenger to add crit, go into a mission, look for one enemy, activate the arcanes and cast it on the enemy (can also try in stealth gameplay).

·       Add energy efficiency on your build. While in-game and both arcanes activated, spam the ability to kill enemies.

·       Unfortunately, you can`t experience headshots due to the targeting, the high damage is the only way this can be shown

 

Smoke Screen:

Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       Teleport to an enemy but don`t kill them, the duration of the stun is 4 seconds.

 

The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       Cast it an imaging it lasting for 10 seconds

Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

 

·       The closes thing to this would be to cast it on an enemy (1sec stun) then teleport to them (4 secs stun) which will total up to 5 secs.

·       Cast on enemy and kill them with a viral build on your weapon (you can cast your 1st right after).

·       Mod the duration for 10 secs, go in a mission, cast it, stay in one spot for 10 seconds and imagine you are another warframe.

 

If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Mod the duration for 20 secs, go in a mission, cast it, stay in one spot for 10 seconds then when you have 10 secs left move around.

  

Teleport:

Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       Use nova and cast her 3rd ability (try it in stealth gameplay)

 

Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       Use the synthesis scanner, look at a breakable object and teleport to it.

 

You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       This part is great because it`s in the game however it`s not consistent. Just do a grinner spy missions, look for the room where there is a window bellow, look at enemy at the main hack console and teleport to it.

Another place you can go to is the room where you have to hack 3 consoles before you can reach the main console, entering the room you will see the enemy and the main hack console through the window, at the 1st hack console there is a window, look at the enemy and teleport to it. I have on question for you, how did doing that make you feel?

 

If you can see an ally through a wall you can teleport to them.

·       Go to a Corpus mission on a public mission, go to extraction there is a barrier with corpus suite hanging on it which has two sides to stand at, when a player is on the opposite side of it you can see the through the barrier.

 

You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       Use Garuda`s 1st ability or Valkyr`s 4th ability with the augment and use it on a corpus ospray.

 

After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

·       Use Zephyr, jump high in the air and spam melee attacks but imagine you are suspended in the air.

 

Blade Storm:

Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       Just press 3rd ability after casting bs and hold 4th ability to activate bs.

 

If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Mark 10 enemies and quickly join bs. On the last bs animation, press the ability and it will feel like you deactivated it.

 

Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       Do I really need to show you this? Just use it in a team -_-

 

An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Mark the enemies with one mark, look at the number indicator, activate bs then watch the numbers go down.

 

Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

·       First use bs like normal, after that go to your melee mod screen and add an extra 20% attack speed to your normal build, mark enemies slide then activate it, you will see the difference. Now imagine if this was optional.

 

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The only way I can show this is for you to cast 2nd ability, mark one enemy (high level) with bs, cast 1st ability then activate bs.

 

Ugly PBR

Spoiler

For anyone that plays Ash will know the horror of what DE has done to him. They have given him the PBR treatment which is a slap in the face of all the nerfs he has slowly been getting. Please take a look, if you agree with this please show support by leaving likes on the post to make DE change him back the way he was.

 

 

 

Ash Shuiken bug

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

More info on page 11

Addressinga salty Ash main

Seriously why are you still here? You clearly don`t like the fact that I’m pushing the idea of Ash getting a revisit, I even address you privately to tell you to back off and to stay on your post and you`re still here.

 

Even now you`re still following this post when I told you not to but yet you don`t agree with any of my logical points about Ash make that make some bloody sense.

You`re just upset that my post is doing well while your “rework” post (which is a revisit not a damn rework) about Ash only got 725 views with 2 comments (my bad 1 comment) and even that person pretty much said they want Ash to go back to the way he was and didn`t even comment on your ideas compared to my over 8,000 views and counting, even put up a post before that moaning and groaning talking about some “Protect Ash” oh sure coz we can put a gun to DE`s head and force them to revisit Ash from our computers.

 

PanMatter has put up a post about Chroma and this post has over 2,000 views, I don`t agree with their rework idea but I haven`t jumped on saying “play a different frame”, this person is not bothering anyone this person is just doing their own thing and it`s working out for them unlike your failed posts.

You are a paskudnyak, you`re literally green with envy, replying to me with stupid and nit-picking comments. Also I was talking to hefirey not you I would understand if I was cussing him out and you were defending him but you`re not especially when the person I replied to didn`t have an issue with me and there is no such thing as “your truth” there is only “the truth” and the truth is that Ash is not “in a good place” and need improvements so mind you`re damn business.

 

  On 2020-07-18 at 6:23 AM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

it further backs my point that as can keep up with damage in most scenarios and dosent need a rework or buff to match Mesa saryn etc because effectively he’s just as good if not better in some scenarios than them. 

No sir you have no point since I keep saying it every damn time his damage is NOT the issue it`s that he can`t get a large amount of kills because of the marking mechanic which makes other ppl get them first even while marking, if a warframe has a powerful 4th ability but can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team this is a huge issue and even if Mesa and Saryn didn`t exist I would still talk about the effectiveness of his killing speed so I’m not trying to compete with them, since you can`t read I’ll pull up the quote that I said again.

 

Vexx757

"People keep saying how good Ash is and he can kill in a team, all I ask is for someone to show me video proof of them getting a high kill count and using bs with ease."

 

And then you said;

"In short challenge dumb ash good, you don’t like ash, you not good with ash and want ash to be like Mesa, play someone else like Mesa." 

 

Ladies and gentlemen this is the kind of dumb responses that Ash players make to the ppl that talked about Ash`s issues, tell me you haven`t had a comment like this thrown at you before.

You don`t get to tell me who I can and can`t play, that’s a dumb comment to make, Ash is a ninja Mesa is a cowgirl, I want to play a ninja not a cowgirl plus Mesa is boring imo. 

You even went to Z4D0`s post and told him “don`t play Ash” just because of what he said and Lullipompsie told you Ash`s killing speed is his issue and you response was “His dps is effectively higher since his rework” (again with the bloody rework) which damage wasn`t that persons bloody issue.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1207776-ash/?tab=comments#comment-11704056

 

Me personally I don`t like ppl saying that Ash`s bs needs a rework especially when they don`t know the difference between a rework and a revisit (like you) but you don`t see me arguing with ppl, LEAVE PPL ALONE you’re not even smart enough to understand no matter what we say DE is the one to make the decisions.

 

This is the last time am addressing you because I’m blocking you so don`t bother replying. I`m pushing for an Ash revisit and I think my ideas are satisfactory, don`t like it? Unfollow my post, get out of my comment section and GET OVER IT!

 

Oh and btw the person that wrote this to me, the comment I put up last Friday…

 

Yh it was this guy that wrote it.

 

My female version of a ninja warframe

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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On 2020-08-07 at 6:49 PM, Azamagon said:

-snip-

I appreciate you taking the time to read and review this so I will address your reply to the best of my ability.

 

·     The only ability that can be used on the zipline is shuriken, as a ninja Ash should be able to cast all his abilities on a zipline. Just think of fun it would be to teleport from the zipline and kill them or to use bladestorm on it and teleport back onto the zipline that would be sick and fun to watch and play.

Shuriken

 

·        That’s what my ideas is, if the damage from shuriken exceeds the health of the enemy it will instantly kill it like low level enemies instead of making them bleed.

·        There are time when you want to target an enemy Infront of you but it targets a different enemy completely, this make it easier, a better single target ability and good for stealth gameplay gives you a choice of either a random spamming enemies or picking a specific target. I`ll admit the crit part is not necessary but it would be fun to watch the crits turn from yellow to red and helps with its damage and as for the flight speed it helps for targeting moving enemies and the held part is based on skill to be able to hit a moving target (if you can).

·        Right, this make it not reliant on its augment.

·        This part is necessary since the only way this ability is good is if it`s spammed and it helps with its damage and energy economy and again makes it not relaying on its augment.

 

Smoke Screen

·        If it was up to me, the stun would last for 10 secs but that would be a bit too op so 4 secs are enough time to either kill enemies or escape plus it helps allies. Just to add the stun is the same duration as the enemies affected by the stun from his 3rd ability.

·        The stuns makes the ability diverse (instead of ppl just using it to be invis and stay alive plus imo it`s kind of boring) which gives you the choice to either use it for survivability or for cc and its strategic plus since Ash is a damage dealer why not have it be able to make enemies weaker to damage?

·        This makes sense and it helps the ppl in it.

·        This is just not necessary; you should be able to hear you soroundings not for your hearing to be muffled.

·        Right this helps with stealth gameplay, it doesn`t make sense that Ash is invis but the clones are not.

 

 Teleport

·        The indicator shows where you can teleport to plus it`s meant to be used for stealth gameplay not really for a random teleport (you can use it that way but it will be clunky), with this there is a difference between the press and the hold version.

·        Just to be clear the holding part makes it able to teleport to walls not the pressed version.

·        It`s funny I was told that it`s stupid for it to do that but by the laws of teleportation you should be able to bypass windows as long as there is an enemy, ally an NPC , something scannable or have a health bar on the other side of it and you can see it. Plus you can already do this (watch vid on page 7) but it`s not consistant.

·        If Garuda can pounce on enemies on the air Ash should be able to do the same thing plus it`s fun to do and slashing the enemy in mid-air is also fun to do.

·        And like you said this is not just a Ash thing it`s a warframe thing and I can see the benefits of your solution to this.

·        By the laws of teleportation, it makes sense and it`s a benefit, this fits into the memory part of teleporting.

·        Right If Loki can do it, it makes sense that Ash can do it also but kill the enemy in the process.

·        This combined with the inconsistencies of finishers it a issue in stealth play.

·        This would make things easer for all frame across the board instead of you having to run behind them to do a finisher. Please do so I would like to take a read of it.

 

Bladestorm

·        I have tested it and you`re half right Nekros can still desecrate but it`s not consistent just like enemies killed from Nova`s 4th ability which is still an issue.

·        His bs needs an instant cast since the killing process is slow. What was good about the old bs was even through the killing process is slow at least it had a instant activation which is the fastest ability activation in the game at the time which was a plus and made it balanced since the kill part is slow.

·        Me personally if ppl want to have the clones kill while they kill other enemies they should have to hold it but that’s just me.

·        It really isn`t. If Ash got 50 enemies within his radius, he can`t kill them all since he kills enemies 3 by 3 by 3 and Ash shouldn’t have a limit of the killing part is slow. Since enemies that are red can be killed by allies gives them a chance to kill so it`s fair for Ash and the team plus this is something bs currently has as we know, otherwise if red enemies had increased defences it will be the same prob with the old bs all over again.

·        The old bs was able to do this and it was consistent (however I wouldn’t mind if it had this imo).

·        At least with this, it will make Ash a better stealth frame.

·        It`s irritating to see your sentinel and the pickups floating around and bugging into Ash while in the animation, this makes it a fun experience without the sentinel and pickups blocking the view

·        Right, with this indicator you will how many enemies are affected and will let you know when to use bs again.

·        This gives you another option and to not rely on using attack speed mods on your melee weapon if you don`t want to plus Ash won`t have a prob in sorties the the requirement forces you not to use a melee weapon. I will say this if you reach the max speed the 20% won`t increase it anymore

 

Synergies

·        Yes, if you are invisible and you kill enemies with you`re 1st, 3rd or 4th ability enemy bodies will disappear. This is a choice for those who want to play Ash stealthily plus this makes it to where you can use Ash in a desecrating team with Nakros.

·        Ok I`ll agree that this part is unnecessary.

·        I don`t feel like it`s forced since you don`t have to use it if you don`t want to plus it`s a benefit that could help allies.

·        Idm it that was tied to shuriken but just to say with the seeing enemies health through wall is something that is already in the game and it`s not just Ash that can see it every other frame can see this also, I just use this existing mechanic and extended the duration of it.

·        I added this synergy coz it`s an alternative to using melee weapons to build up Ash`s damage. If you`re taking about the damage build up from bs added to shuriken then I like that ideas which is one I wanted to put on but chose this idea instead.

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On 2020-09-04 at 9:30 AM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Vexx-info:

Hey guys this is just a recap of the things I have posted. I have chosen the ones that I think are either important and what you need to know.

 

Interactive Bladestorm animation idea

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Interactive blade storm animation

If you don`t want to be in the animation, it will act as normal however if you decide to be involved in the animation, you have a chance to gain bonus duration of slash ticks and 1% animation speed increase in the next use however, you have to be interactive within the animation.

 

While in the animation;

·       You have to press the melee button in sink when his stabs enemies in the animation.

·       When doing so, there is an indicator showing the buffs and successful hits which will be converted into duration of slash ticks and animation speed increase.

·       The more successful hits you get the more animation speed you can get in the next use e.g. 10 successful hits = 10% animation speed.

·       The maximus slash duration bonus you can receive is 7 seconds.

·       If you jump out of bs you will lose the bonuses.

·       The bonuses slash tick duration will also include all weapon types. (even weapons that don’t have slash)

·       If you don`t interact with at least five animation cutscenes (depending on how many enemies affected) and get three successful hits, you will only deal half of bs damage. (2000 damage + no interaction = 1000 damage.

 

What my changes does for Ash

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 With these changes, I`m going to list the new strategic ways Ash can be used in public and solo missions;

 

·       Casting multiple shurikens at enemies will be a small form of cc to slow them down.

·       If you are surrounded by enemies, you can Stun them with smoke screen which will give Ash and allies a 4 second window to kill them without any issues.

·       You can use the smoke on a dangerous enemy to keep the stunned longer and make it easy to kill with his 1st, 3,rd and 4th abilities, weapons and allies damage.

·       The smoke can be used to lock enemies down in doorways.

·       If an ally is in danger, they can stand inside the smoke making them unseen to enemies.

·       If you see an ally, enemy, npc, objects with a health bar or scannable object on the other side of the window, you can teleport to it which will cut down time instead of finding a way around it.

·       Ash can teleport and attack the capture target on Jupiter or any other unreachable enemy in the air.

·       In stealth gameplay if an enemy is in front of you and you want to get behind it, you can hold ability to teleport to the ground behind it to sneak past it or finish it off.

·       If you need a quick escape at a hight point, you can teleport onto a wall above ground and hang there for a short duration to shoot the enemies below.

·       If a player is down and you are in bs, you can deactivate the ability to revive your teammate.

 

Ash`s augment improvements

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Based on my improvements to Ash, I have come up with some changes to his 2nd and 4th ability augments to make the both benefit Ash and allies.

 

Seeking Shuriken

·       This now strips enemies’ defences.

 

Smoke Shadow

·       Passive – smoke cloud has 5 seconds of duration.

·       It now affects npcs.

·       Depending on what elemental status affect(s) you have on your melee weapon will determine the smoke cloud`s affect e.g. toxic cloud.

·       The status affect will last twice as long.

 

Fatal Teleport

·       Passive - finisher speed increased by 75%

·       After killing an enemy, the next three enemies will be opened up to finishers whether they are alerted or not.

·       Enemies will be open to finishers until they are dead.

 

New: Marked blade

·       Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x mark on the ground which when standing on will give Ash and allies 40% critical chance and 40% running speed. Enemies that stand on it will be knocked down and be vulnerable to slash damage by 50% for 15 seconds.

·       The indicator of ally buff is shown on the top right of the screen.

·       The mark will last 20s until it disappears.

·       Mark duration can be increased by duration mods.

 

My petition for Ash

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IMPORTANT

I have made a petition for DE to give Ash a revisit and to integrate my ideas to Ash. If you like my idea please support and share my petition so we can show DE how serious we are to giving Ash the revisit her deserves.

http://chng.it/TVJnXgZC

 

Ash gameplay in-depth

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Hey guys, I have something special to show today. Here is a short video of some Ash gameplay. It`s will show how some of my ideas can be implemented to Ash`s abilities and will also show the pros and cons of teleport. Most people can`t imaging how warframe abilities would work by explanation so this video is to help you understand through visualisation. If you want more information, watch it on youtube and look in the description box, other than that I hope you enjoy the video.

 

Time stamps

Now each time stamp will show my ideas that can be implemented and some issues of the way it is currently which you can find when you look in the description box on youtube.

 

 

Ash bugs

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IMPORTANT

One of the issues I have with Ash (amongst other things) is the inconsistency of his teleport not opening enemies up to finishers, it ruins stealth play coz if you teleport to an enemy and they are not opened up to finishers they will shoot at you making noise and alerting other enemies due to bad stealth mechanics plus the finisher button being separate from the attack button make things worse.

Instead of me making a post about Ash bugs and everyone adding to them post, I would like for you guys as a collective to send post about Ash`s bugs and issues he has so DE can fix them.

I have done this but as usual it hasn`t been addressed. If you can show video footage of his issues, this would be a big help to them and will let them know indefinitely that there is an issue.

 

Here is a list of bugs he has that I have noticed so far;

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

 

If you guys know of any other bugs Ash has let them know, if we send posts after posts of Ash bugs, they can`t ignore them and they have time (due to the current situation that we are in) and if they do ignore these issues, this will make them look bad and we will have leverage to say they don`t listen to feedback.

 

How to replicate my ideas in-game

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Even though I have put up a video to show how my ideas for Ash would look if they were in game (look on page 7), If you want to experience what they would be like in-game here are somethings you can try out yourself to understand how they would work in practice no matter how big or small. People say a lot that an idea on paper is one thing but putting it in practise is another thing, the point of this is for you to experience what my ideas would be like in practise so I hope you enjoy trying them out for yourself.

 

Shuriken:

If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Go to a low-level mission and cast it on enemies and image getting the stealth bonus from it.

 

Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

·       Add arcane Arachne to add damage and arcane avenger to add crit, go into a mission, look for one enemy, activate the arcanes and cast it on the enemy (can also try in stealth gameplay).

·       Add energy efficiency on your build. While in-game and both arcanes activated, spam the ability to kill enemies.

·       Unfortunately, you can`t experience headshots due to the targeting, the high damage is the only way this can be shown

 

Smoke Screen:

Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       Teleport to an enemy but don`t kill them, the duration of the stun is 4 seconds.

 

The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       Cast it an imaging it lasting for 10 seconds

Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

 

·       The closes thing to this would be to cast it on an enemy (1sec stun) then teleport to them (4 secs stun) which will total up to 5 secs.

·       Cast on enemy and kill them with a viral build on your weapon (you can cast your 1st right after).

·       Mod the duration for 10 secs, go in a mission, cast it, stay in one spot for 10 seconds and imagine you are another warframe.

 

If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Mod the duration for 20 secs, go in a mission, cast it, stay in one spot for 10 seconds then when you have 10 secs left move around.

  

Teleport:

Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       Use nova and cast her 3rd ability (try it in stealth gameplay)

 

Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       Use the synthesis scanner, look at a breakable object and teleport to it.

 

You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       This part is great because it`s in the game however it`s not consistent. Just do a grinner spy missions, look for the room where there is a window bellow, look at enemy at the main hack console and teleport to it.

Another place you can go to is the room where you have to hack 3 consoles before you can reach the main console, entering the room you will see the enemy and the main hack console through the window, at the 1st hack console there is a window, look at the enemy and teleport to it. I have on question for you, how did doing that make you feel?

 

If you can see an ally through a wall you can teleport to them.

·       Go to a Corpus mission on a public mission, go to extraction there is a barrier with corpus suite hanging on it which has two sides to stand at, when a player is on the opposite side of it you can see the through the barrier.

 

You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       Use Garuda`s 1st ability or Valkyr`s 4th ability with the augment and use it on a corpus ospray.

 

After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

·       Use Zephyr, jump high in the air and spam melee attacks but imagine you are suspended in the air.

 

Blade Storm:

Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       Just press 3rd ability after casting bs and hold 4th ability to activate bs.

 

If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Mark 10 enemies and quickly join bs. On the last bs animation, press the ability and it will feel like you deactivated it.

 

Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       Do I really need to show you this? Just use it in a team -_-

 

An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Mark the enemies with one mark, look at the number indicator, activate bs then watch the numbers go down.

 

Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

·       First use bs like normal, after that go to your melee mod screen and add an extra 20% attack speed to your normal build, mark enemies slide then activate it, you will see the difference. Now imagine if this was optional.

 

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The only way I can show this is for you to cast 2nd ability, mark one enemy (high level) with bs, cast 1st ability then activate bs.

 

Ugly PBR

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For anyone that plays Ash will know the horror of what DE has done to him. They have given him the PBR treatment which is a slap in the face of all the nerfs he has slowly been getting. Please take a look, if you agree with this please show support by leaving likes on the post to make DE change him back the way he was.

 

 

 

Ash Shuiken bug

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More info on page 11

Addressinga salty Ash main

Seriously why are you still here? You clearly don`t like the fact that I’m pushing the idea of Ash getting a revisit, I even address you privately to tell you to back off and to stay on your post and you`re still here.

 

Even now you`re still following this post when I told you not to but yet you don`t agree with any of my logical points about Ash make that make some bloody sense.

You`re just upset that my post is doing well while your “rework” post (which is a revisit not a damn rework) about Ash only got 725 views with 2 comments (my bad 1 comment) and even that person pretty much said they want Ash to go back to the way he was and didn`t even comment on your ideas compared to my over 8,000 views and counting, even put up a post before that moaning and groaning talking about some “Protect Ash” oh sure coz we can put a gun to DE`s head and force them to revisit Ash from our computers.

 

PanMatter has put up a post about Chroma and this post has over 2,000 views, I don`t agree with their rework idea but I haven`t jumped on saying “play a different frame”, this person is not bothering anyone this person is just doing their own thing and it`s working out for them unlike your failed posts.

You are a paskudnyak, you`re literally green with envy, replying to me with stupid and nit-picking comments. Also I was talking to hefirey not you I would understand if I was cussing him out and you were defending him but you`re not especially when the person I replied to didn`t have an issue with me and there is no such thing as “your truth” there is only “the truth” and the truth is that Ash is not “in a good place” and need improvements so mind you`re damn business.

 

  On 2020-07-18 at 6:23 AM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

it further backs my point that as can keep up with damage in most scenarios and dosent need a rework or buff to match Mesa saryn etc because effectively he’s just as good if not better in some scenarios than them. 

No sir you have no point since I keep saying it every damn time his damage is NOT the issue it`s that he can`t get a large amount of kills because of the marking mechanic which makes other ppl get them first even while marking, if a warframe has a powerful 4th ability but can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team this is a huge issue and even if Mesa and Saryn didn`t exist I would still talk about the effectiveness of his killing speed so I’m not trying to compete with them, since you can`t read I’ll pull up the quote that I said again.

 

Vexx757

"People keep saying how good Ash is and he can kill in a team, all I ask is for someone to show me video proof of them getting a high kill count and using bs with ease."

 

And then you said;

"In short challenge dumb ash good, you don’t like ash, you not good with ash and want ash to be like Mesa, play someone else like Mesa." 

 

Ladies and gentlemen this is the kind of dumb responses that Ash players make to the ppl that talked about Ash`s issues, tell me you haven`t had a comment like this thrown at you before.

You don`t get to tell me who I can and can`t play, that’s a dumb comment to make, Ash is a ninja Mesa is a cowgirl, I want to play a ninja not a cowgirl plus Mesa is boring imo. 

You even went to Z4D0`s post and told him “don`t play Ash” just because of what he said and Lullipompsie told you Ash`s killing speed is his issue and you response was “His dps is effectively higher since his rework” (again with the bloody rework) which damage wasn`t that persons bloody issue.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1207776-ash/?tab=comments#comment-11704056

 

Me personally I don`t like ppl saying that Ash`s bs needs a rework especially when they don`t know the difference between a rework and a revisit (like you) but you don`t see me arguing with ppl, LEAVE PPL ALONE you’re not even smart enough to understand no matter what we say DE is the one to make the decisions.

 

This is the last time am addressing you because I’m blocking you so don`t bother replying. I`m pushing for an Ash revisit and I think my ideas are satisfactory, don`t like it? Unfollow my post, get out of my comment section and GET OVER IT!

 

Oh and btw the person that wrote this to me, the comment I put up last Friday…

 

Yh it was this guy that wrote it.

 

My female version of a ninja warframe

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ahh with that being said lets talk about how you spam all of your threads in and out of game along with multiple times on the fourms.
Amongs other things i try to ignore the fact that your clearly upset because we dont agree on things. You assume im a "salty ash main " yet if youd pay attenion to the multiple threads you've spammed in (to which im in) you'd see alot more. Trying to Revive something in hopes your ash rework will push isnt going to work and here's why your rework wont work on a fundamental level 

Reverting ash back to old bladstorm days (which is basically what you want to do because at this point i feel like youre just incompetent with the frame) would mean that it could cause a massive uproar to get  Old ember back possibly old saryn and old mesa back Which De has stated they dont want that type of gameplay in game (one and done or one good ability) 
many people have offered and other suggestions to which you dont want to take up because you're stubborn and only boast the "if its not my idea or strikingly similar u wrong"
on top of that You claim you want ash to be better and more enjoyable for all yet thats a subjective statement.   You want ash to be better for your suited playstyle. not for all. and my response to such is ... play a different frame. not out of me being dismisive but you're playstyle does not align up to what you think as is/should be. play one of the better nukeing frames. and if you'd like to play ash (an assassin by description who typically excells less in the nuking department but its warframe so almost everyone nukes) at least provide something usefull towards his character. You mention he cant kill faster  then other "killer frames" when again that is subjective on the players loadout and ability of the player. You throw around a compleletly irrelevant challenge yet dismiss others if again its not in your ideals. and then try to boast. " well more people like my idea then yours" this is the warframe community and the forums at that lol.... im gonna let you think about that

Next again its your attitude you mention me towards others but your spamming again is a major issue. What you call "passion" is utterly annoying to not just me but the pletohra of people who have came on this exact thread and even your reddit post to tell you STOP
 

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On 2020-09-02 at 6:29 AM, ES-Flinter said:

Are you sure about that? If I ask you for an Ash revisit concept which isn't OP after modding, but has still a higher aoe potential than now (no cooldowns!) you can make it with ease?  Now I'm interested. Possible that you can share your ideas with me/ us?

Don't worry I'm not going to kill you if there's a problem. Well atleast not in RL.^^

if  itl be easier i can put it in video form but i belive as is fine as is - a few qol an ideal rework imo isnt needed but i can throw out my two cents considering at least 900 of my almost 2k hours is probs with as at this point lmao

 

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Note: Hold ctrl and F to view the the following sections;

Issues

Stats

Look/try for yourself

 

Ash is a very controversial warframe to talk about, he is like marmit, some ppl like him and some ppl dislike him and if you say something negative about him or you say he needs a look over ppl will jump down your throat, whether ppl want to admit it or not Ash needs a revisit and here is why.

 

Issues

 

Shuriken

·       Shuriken is only good with its augment, an augment is meant to be used as an option and not to make the ability better, which means on its own it`s not worth using.

·       Because of the way bladestorm works, it makes it redundant due to bs doing more damage and costing less energy.

·       If there are 3 enemies in front of you and you want to kill the one in the right, sometimes it will target the other two enemies instead of the one you want even if you`re aiming at it.

·       The only way it will be affective is if you spam the ability however you will lose out on energy doing so plus you can`t control what enemy you want it to hit and (in other ppl`s eyes) why do that when you can use bs? There is no distinction between the two.

 

Smoke Screen

·       The duration of it is low and even though I don`t have any issue with it I understand why other ppl would.

 

Teleport

·       When teleporting to enemies it`s not consistent in opening them up to finishers.

·       People use it`s augment as a bandade coz the bug which means the ability on its own is bad.

·       On consoles it`s changed to where the finisher prompt is separate from the melee button which makes it which kind of brakes the flow of it.

·       If a enemy is under a stun, it can`t interrupt it to be able to open them up to a finisher.

 

Bladestorm… so many issues

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

Stats

 

Here are some stats about Ash.

 

13lrc0vw80t51.png?width=1802&format=png&auto=webp&s=af4c8145831ec19813f6828c90f296bbf4bbf70b

This shows the abilities that are subsumed the most, as you can see Ash`s 1 is 4th because once again his augment.

 

cpw92rv190t51.png?width=1486&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1bfa29abf1e509f936727bbb6f32cc455db5475

This shows the abilities that are used the most and as you can see, Ash is not even on this list.

 

jzuvgoi790t51.png?width=1482&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6d7e54ccc1f79a29f962ee1ca97d392f4d33315

This shows the warframe abilities that are replaced the most. As you can see Ash`s 1st is within the top 10 which says a lot and his 4th is 22nd on this list, again it`s the marking mechanic that is the reason why it even on here.

 

hlv1zuac90t51.png?width=1636&format=png&auto=webp&s=a04d9add85e5914d7234dd53ecf3606982eac06d

This shows the most replaced abilities. As you can see his 1st is the most replaced coz without it`s augment, ppl aren’t using it.

The second replaced is his 4th, which to me is no surprise. Despite it doing 2,000 damage at base, doing slash damage, true damage and can be increased by the combo multi it`s second, if an ability can do all that there is no way in heck it should be so high, why is it so high? It`s simple because of the marking mechanic.

 

Even though I don`t really care about the helminth system that much, one thing I like about it is that it shows how ppl feel about warframe abilities and what abilities/frames need another lookover and Ash needs it. No matter what ppl say actions speak louder than words.

 

At the time ash was ranked the number #1 favourite warframe by votes on Mogamu`s channel in 2016. Two years later, he is one of the least played warframe stated by DE themselves on life of rio`s video in 2018.

 

Mogamu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adLohAFoWQc

Life of rio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRx6oTxF1Y

 

 

Two years later…

Spoiler

scvtkz3q90t51.png?width=1181&format=png&auto=webp&s=500e3cf3964a27f47ddfbe5ec8960894bee29bac

Spoiler

8c145y7s90t51.png?width=1174&format=png&auto=webp&s=33763bfd8c37623403592b335e075656734707cb

Think about, this was over one ability change which means the other three abilities were not good enough on their own for ppl to keep playing him.

 

Look/try for yourself

 

I`m not going to say that I have seen every video on Ash but if you search on YouTube for Ash videos, you won`t find any videos of ppl playing him in a team and staying with that team using bs. In fact, there is one youtuber that`s done just that and despite what he says his video shown the opposite.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJEO2VIxjuM&feature=youtu.be

Go to these time points in the video. I know I`m starting in the mid of the video but it will make sense as you read on. This is him testing bs in the simulacrum.

Spoiler

7:00- 7:15: You notice how excited he get that he killed them all? Yh but you`re by yourself killing.

Here he is using bs in public.

2:44 – 2:55: It does matter when the point is to kill them but you can coz allies killed them off.

2:55- 3:04: What you saying doesn`t match what we are seeing. (pay attention to what he says vs what he`s showing)

4:18: He say he only targeted 2 enemies but the footage shows he marked more than that. Do I need to say why?

4:37: He`s on pc look how fast he`s moving his mouse all that for 1 enemy.

5:29- 5:36: Yes, it sounds good... ON PAPER, but in a co-op game in public in practise not so much

Ladies and gentlemen this is why ppl don`t show footage of Ash in a team, because that footage will prove the issues that Ash has. Peoples reviews and showings of Ash`s bs is in the simulacrum BY THEMSELFS.

 

Here is a comment from someone in the comment section on youtube that I copied and pasted from. This person is able to see the issues Ash has. Very good analysis.

Spoiler

the marking mechanic is fun for awhile, but after playing for like 5 days you'll learn that its such an obnoxious mechanic especially running high level missions with never ending enemies, yeah good luck marking all of them OR trying to pick your targets, the marking mechanic becomes sloppy and unreliable. You waste so much time on marking enemies while your squad mates just farts and kill all the enemies around you. You cant mark enemies behind walls or hidden places yet you know they are there because your radar shows it in red dots, its so annoying. Play style now changes to just quickly swiping your mouse left and right to efficiently mark as many enemies as you can with 3 marks per enemy... try playing like that for 20 mins. so fun.

At the end of the day you start thinking, why should i use BS when you have other BETTER means to dispatch groups of enemies? like just using your Zarr, aim and shoot. done. lol Zarr even have a secondary function that shoots like a shot gun, so this rifle is able to dish out a good AoE damage AND close quarter killing, a more faster and efficient weapon than an Ultimate...

Ash is the only Warframe in the game that has a two step activation Ultimate. Every other Warframe's Ultimate are instant. Banshee, Saryn, Mag, Frost, Loki, Mesa etc doesnt matter, the Ultimate is done in a fast manner*, no other Warframe needs to "aim" or "mark" their targets****. Imagine Ember's WoF needs to mark her targets first THEN the fires will burn em. or Frost, Saryn or Mag needs to mark their targets in order to freeze, poison or crush them. hahaha Loki's Irradiated Disarm, Mark your targets first THEN disarm them... yeah in a fast paced game like Warframe it just doesnt work.*** (I SAY THIS ALL THE BLOODY TIME)

The simple solution to BS is just reverting it back to the old mechanic but increase the energy use for BS in increments so that BS cant be spammed (but used as a well placed calculated attack) and allies are able to kill Ash's marked enemies (and perhaps gain some bonus buff from it). Thats it. problem solved. Yet... we got THIS rework (nerf). similar to the sentinel vacuum scenario, 1 simple way to solve a problem but DE gave us the most convoluted way imaginable as their solution. So no, Bladestorm is not a good change at all. Its the worst Warframe rework to date.

Its funny how "ooh ASH is too OP please nerf him DE" and guess what? DE listened, yet you have this Warframe that is able to HEAL AND GIVE ENERGY to ALL WARFRAMES and even after several reworks, Trinity is still a powerful frame because inherently, she is the master of 2 of the most important mechanics in the game that is HP and ENERGY....sure thats not OP. whats so wrong about Ash killing 17 enemies?

 

Go and do a normal Earth defence mission with a team and use bs, to a place where damage doesn’t matter to where even Nekros`s 1st ability can kill them and you will see what will happen to you, better yet try doing it by yourself and see how long it takes you to complete it. Imo warframe abilities (damage abilities) should be usable no matter where you go e.g. Nezha`s 2nd ability.

 

Here is a video which shows that he can`t kill level six enemies with another player because of the marking mechanic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdMM5eXYaIA&feature=youtu.be

Let’s go into detail what we see in the footage.

Spoiler

·       When Oberon cast his 4th Ash get two out of six kills.

·       You will see the bs indicator going from six marks down to two marks due to Oberon.

·       You will see that I activated bs (the 2nd part of bs`s activation) before Oberon put his hand down in his animation and he still killed more than me, If I activated the marking and Oberon activated his 4 at the same time Oberon would have probably taken all of my kills due to quick activation.

·       If you look at the clone that looks like my Ash, you will notice that it didn`t even finish the killing animation move coz Oberon slammed the enemy 1st but somehow the clone was able to kill it.

·       You also see the inconsistencies with the clone`s appearance, one looks like my customised Ash while the other looks like a hologram.

This makes no sense, he can deal over 2,000 damage but he can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team (or with someone), the way bs is now it only can be used in high level missions and open spaces vs old bs where it can be used anywhere and at any level. If you`re still not convinced after all this just go do a defence mission on Earth with a team and you will see what happens with the amount of kills you will get.

 

I said it once and i`ll say it again, the marking mechanic should never be tied to damage EVER! and if the marking mechanic was given to Saryn, Ember, Equinox, Banshee and Mesa`s 4th NO ONE WOULD USE THEM ANYMORE which proves why it`s bad on Ash.

I was the only one back in 2016 that voiced Ash issues and I got ridiculed for it. I`m glad that more ppl are voicing it but it took too long, I feel like I’m the only one that took the red pill while everyone else was taking the blue pill.

If you want to know my solutions that addresses the issues I have listed you can take a look here.

 

Now if you like Ash that`s fine, I play him 21.5% of the time (most played frame) but you can`t argue facts and I refuse to be illogical, stick my head in the sand and deny the facts the are laid out in-front of me, and if you face anyone that says "he`s perfect" or say "his damage doh" then you can used these points to shut them down.

All I want is ppl at acknowledge his issues and for DE to give him the revisit he deserves.

Make Ash great again.

Warframe 20200714100628 by Aaronj-c

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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His 1 does literally nothing (without the augment), his 3 is buggy, too slow, overall obsolete, and targeting it is impractical at long distances, Bladestorm marking is cumbersome, it's damage is slow, you get locked out of using it while clones are active.

If DE wanted to do something about these issues, they'd have done so a long time ago. Obviously they are content with Ash's current state, and it isn't like Ash is an outlier here: A LOT of things in this game are barely functional, messy, and bugged. And nothing is done about them. So get used to it.

  • Something is very popular: We have to make it worse asap! Hotfix in 10 minutes!
  • Something is bugged/useless: This is fine. Maybe we'll have a look at it in 5 years. Probably not lol.
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Honestly with Saryn, Octavia, Mesa, Khora, Equinox, Volt, and now even Xaku being a thing with being easy room clearing nukes I say revert Ash back to the good old days of Bladestorm where you tap it and forget it. Nowadays even if they did that it still wouldnt become Meta again cause even with the reversion it still wouldnt even come close to todays nukers which honestly...bladestorm wasnt even really a nuke it was a cast and wait till the animation plays through in 15-30 seconds

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I might be crazy or delusional. Bladestorm is strong. I really can't belive you are using a video with level 6 enemies as an example. And Infested die like flies.

I do get bored at low levels, too many nukes with room clear make every frame useless. Trinity is strong, but she is useless at low levels because your squad does not need your energy. They don't need your healing, damage reduction, or whatever buff you can give them. Are all support useless? They don't need your damage, so every frame is useless because Saryn, sadly the frame that everyone decides to compare everything with, can kill faster than you. But have you tried higher levels? You probably did and somehow reached a different conclussion than me

I play Arbitrations with Ash. No full melee, no Naramon, just Bladestorm and a Soma. No problems here. I use him on Steel Path but solo, since there's no online activity in that gamemode.

Do something about Shuriken and Teleport though.

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