The Simulacrum, hated by [DE]Scott? Here's a thought...

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Monster Hunter World does have a training room. But you don't see as many video as warframe of players beating on the test dummy. [DE]Scott does have a point to make. It okay to test builds in the simularcrum. But do a field test in mission to see actual combat results.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

Champions Online has a "training center" that has multiple levels. Of course the game is more WoW like and not like Warfframe at all, so the tools are different too. I really like it though. 

The first floor has the trainers to level at, a "costume shop" to change your cosmetics. A dressing room attached to that with a green screen room. The first floor also goes to a theater for costume contests. Its a super hero game, we costume contest in them.It also has a PVP arena area that has a theater to watch from the outside and then rooms with a window so you can see people duel in different enviroments. Sadly as cool as they are, they never get used. 

Second floor has 3 rooms. First room/entrence has some blocks you can interact with to see how your powers interact with objects of different sizes. (important because things like strength adjusts how big of an object you can pick up, throw, carry). Then running off of that is a dummy room where it has packs of mob dummies that are literarlly dummies. They have no AI other than stand there and take the hit. They are completely generic and grouped by different level tiers and then a platform with "boss" level ones that have defensive stats of end game bosses while just being generic human dummies. The other side has a bunch of dummy AIs that run around a circle track so you test CC abilities.

Third floor is very simple. A mobility testing room. It has platforms, hoops, boxes, and stuff and you can test movement. Nothing else.

Fourth floor is also very simple. Defensive laser testing. It has 4 lasers, each is a different strength, and a med bay. You walk up to the laser, tap the button, the laser hits your character for a scaled amount of damage to your level from Light damage to "1 shot" level damage. can test your builds to see how well you can take a single hit.

 

The final floor is the most important and what I think the Simulacrum can value most from... The Battle station. It's a "boring grey room" that looks like it could fit into American Gladiators. From there you choose a faction, you choose how "hard" you want the spawns to be and you choose a "virtrual team size"  ranging from 1 to 5 players. The game will then spawn 3 groups of holographic mobs of that faction to your team size and difficulty choice. First group is "minion heavy" that will be a large group of weak enemies, higher difficulty/more players will add in lieutenants and maybe an elite. Second group will have a focus on the Lieutenats, with more of those and only a handfull of minions. The final group will be a strong elite of that faction with a couple of Lieutenants and minions to back it up. You don't get to choose WHAT you fight against, just how many and how strong they are. It really gives you a good idea of how strong your build is in very controlled ways so you can have a good idea when you enter a real mission, what you can handle. You can even enter as a team and summon arch villains to see how you stack against the major bosses.

[SenorClipClop]

7 hours ago, LSG501 said:

You do realise there is more than just one video that we can make an opinion from right....  but then that wouldn't allow you to be a white knight for DE...

Taking what someone says at face value beats being a cynicism sheep for attention and fake intenet points.

[MadMattPrime]

What are these guys smoking? 

Go listen to the entire podcast/pod video.

[DE]Scott clearly has nothing against the Simulacrum, he understands that players need a place to test and experiment in a controlled environment.

His main issue with the Simulacrum is HOW CONTENT CREATORS USE IT which is quite understandable, [DE] gives them free prime access and the latest and newest items in exchange for the content creator to promote, show off and attract new players through their content however most content creators just use the simulacrum to show their builds that do big numbers which too be honest is bullS#&$ because only a minority of players do endurance runs, most typical players stay for rotation AAB and only C if a specific relic drops from there. 

As for warframe content from creators it is all the bloody same, there are is a limit to how many times we can see the same blood rush, weeping wounds build for melee and X weapon crit/hybrid build and ouh look I did an endurance run with sayrn for x hours. 

The problem is there is literally no content for content creators besides major events because warframe has literally no content to show off.

Defence: Proctect X for X rounds.

Capture: Run here and capture X.

Disruption: Capture the flag with special rules.

Survival: Survive X minutes until extraction point pops up.

Defection: Protect X as they walk to X point.

Sabotage: Destroy X item

Exterminate: Kill X enemies

Excavation: go x and protect x to collect x cyrotic.

There is so limited game modes and there is a limit on how many times people can explain this stuff and watch it without getting bored.

Both parties are at fault. DE doesn't have enough content for content creators and content creators have limited stuff to do.

But there is only one thing we can blame content creators! Riven disposition, you guys should stop complaining about these when its basically your fault for making the weapon popular!

Edited March 25, 2020 by MadMattPrime

[MadMattPrime]

46 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Scott needs to lay off the drinks or get replaced. All these years and of all things. He gets triggered over a test room. It's how I gear check my frames and weapons. 

Go relisten to the damn podcast, he understands that the simulacrum is a necessary evil after that it is an entire rant on warframe content creators.

 

Not defending [DE]Scott but you're taking what he said out of context.

 

His exact words were, "you guys (refering to tact potato and frozen) use..." And it became a long rant on content creators

Edited March 25, 2020 by MadMattPrime

[LSG501]

6 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Taking what someone says at face value beats being a cynicism sheep for attention and fake intenet points.

Believing everything said online, even more so if it's from a company 'rep', is even more comical to me but hey got to keep defending DE.....

[(NSW)Greybones]

I was reading the forums before the major overhaul that just happened, and I read the forums afterwards.

Focusing on enemy health and elemental changes and shield gating; 

Before, there was a lot of maths and theorycrafting and vitriol surrounding an update that hadn’t dropped yet.

Immediately after the update people were swearing that what the simulacrum was showing them was the gospel truth in terms of what worked. There was a lot of anger and bitterness because of those posts that used the simulacrum as the leg with which they stood on to make their claims.

It’s not just content creators, it was we on the forums who abused the simulacrum to make claims that supported negative impressions of the changes. No-one had the chance to put it through its paces, yet the backlash was intense.

I can see how Steve would be saddened that a tool they gave players was being leveraged so vehemently against changes that require time to get used to

Edited March 25, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[SenorClipClop]

49 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Believing everything said online, even more so if it's from a company 'rep', is even more comical to me but hey got to keep defending DE.....

Nice strawman, but I'm not defending DE. I'm just arguing with you because I think you're being really stupid.

[LSG501]

12 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

 I think you're being really stupid.

Funny I thought that about you....

[DeeDeetheSpy]

I am just trying to throw out some creative alliterative ideas and a bunch of you are attacking each other. Cut it out. If you don't like someone's idea, be like, "This doesn't work for me because of X" or, "The return on such work isn't worth the time." or something. But starting to call each other idiots and what not, I mean come on folks. We're all adults.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

They all are adults. Just not informed, rational adults.

[xxvaderxxar]

One should wonder, why is it that a large percentage of the populations feels that testing in a static room with dummies, does actually reflect the reality of the game itself.

May be the problem is not people having access and using the simulacrum.

Edited March 25, 2020 by xxvaderxxar

[GKP_light]

"the simulacrum is not representative of the content of the game" :

but the problem is not the simulacrum.

it is the content of the game.

we should have some lategame content that correspond to the high level of the simulacrum.

(edit : it is what say the youtuber. i really don't understand why the dev are so closed to this idea.)

Edited March 25, 2020 by GKP_light

[xMarvin732]

I don't really understand why he complains about Simulacrum, its a test room ,of course people test their new things in there, not everyone wants to waste 1 or 2+hours of survival Void to check if their gear is working out and notice, its trash compared to Simulacrum being able to change the Level and test it there.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

People blaming the YouTubers are very dishonest, the problem was never ever the simulacrum, a lot of games have this and they work perfectly with it. Damn, Content Creators even showcase real gameplays in their videos most times and quote things like "it can work at lower levels, etc". It's not like they completely ignore the fact that not every enemy is a Corrupted Heavy Gunner lvl 170. 

The thing is, DE Scott is biased to protect his vision (read this as DE vision) of things, so they have to blame someone other than themselves for all the bad things that happen in the game.

DE would never admit that the problem is how they handle the game and not the Content Creators fault.

[nslay]

Sure... DE hates one of the most unique features of their game. I wish we had Simulacrum in Diablo 3... closest thing to Simulacrum is Greater Rifts (control enemy strength, but not tileset or enemies!).

[Metal_Madness]

Honestly they should expand the Simulacrum. Give access to individual tiles instead of the big void. Let us drop down defense targets and interception towers. That will let the YouTubers actually show off what the game is like without massively expanding their workload.

[xXDeadsinxX]

I find it quite interesting that DE dislike the Simulacrum even though that’s all Warframe is, a game to be most powerful as you can possibly be. If there’s blame to be put, the only ones to blame are the devs since they’ve designed the game it is today.

[nslay]

7 minutes ago, Metal_Madness said:

Honestly they should expand the Simulacrum. Give access to individual tiles instead of the big void. Let us drop down defense targets and interception towers. That will let the YouTubers actually show off what the game is like without massively expanding their workload.

On that note, wouldn't it be cool if Simulacrum was expanded to be a map editor for custom games and custom game modes? Then users can make some fun game modes for Warframe... and DE can put some of the editing tools behind grinds (or sell it for plat)!

I mean... I hate to think of Second Life for this, but that... uhh... thing, has a full blown scripting language to make cool stuff.

EDIT: I would love to play Nexus Wars with Grineer, Corpus, Infested and Sentient units.

Edited April 14, 2020 by nslay

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2020-03-24 at 4:35 AM, LSG501 said:

IMO Scott doesn't like the simulcrum because it allows players who play the game properly outside of the dev sandbox to see how good/bad something is really easily....

There is nothing inherently wrong with the simulcrum, the issue is more to do with the way the devs do updates and reworks imo.

I think Scott's direct issue is that content creators, specifically, use it almost exclusively. With all of the beautiful art and sounds in the game, having the very people that represent the game focus only on that single gray room sucks. Seeing the action on the multiple terrains gives a much better overall impression of what players can expect. IMHO, he's absolutely right. And, for that, I support the captura idea or, like DE is doing in scarlet spear, create multiple simulacrums.

[LSG501]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think Scott's direct issue is that content creators, specifically, use it almost exclusively. With all of the beautiful art and sounds in the game, having the very people that represent the game focus only on that single gray room sucks. Seeing the action on the multiple terrains gives a much better overall impression of what players can expect. IMHO, he's absolutely right. And, for that, I support the captura idea or, like DE is doing in scarlet spear, create multiple simulacrums.

Content creators can only show the same content/maps so many times though, lets be honest it's not like we've had a plethora of new maps or anything is it, even scarlet spear is just reusing 2 existing maps... and when it comes to weapons having a consistent test bench is useful to compare like for like. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

3 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think Scott's direct issue is that content creators, specifically, use it almost exclusively. With all of the beautiful art and sounds in the game, having the very people that represent the game focus only on that single gray room sucks. Seeing the action on the multiple terrains gives a much better overall impression of what players can expect. IMHO, he's absolutely right. And, for that, I support the captura idea or, like DE is doing in scarlet spear, create multiple simulacrums.

The reason content creators use simulacrum, is not one wants to display a video of bashing level 30 mobs. Simulacrum is the only place where you can pop them instantly.

[DrivaMain]

I am gonna disagree with Scott here. Yes you and your team put a lot of effort in the game, I respect that. But sometime I just want to just want to test my builds as fast as possible without any hassle. That’s where the simulacrum comes in.

When viewers watch Weapon or Warframe Builds they expect how much damage it can do, how much range can it reach, how much energy they cost, how much status it can proc, what faction or enemy that hurts this weapon or frame, etc. They don’t want to watch the usual Warframe chaos or going sightseeing on the game’s environment.

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

22 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I am gonna disagree with Scott here. Yes you and your team put a lot of effort in the game, I respect that. But sometime I just want to just want to test my builds as fast as possible without any hassle. That’s where the simulacrum comes in.

When viewers watch Weapon or Warframe Builds they expect how much damage it can do, how much range can it reach, how much energy they cost, how much status it can proc, what faction or enemy that hurts this weapon or frame, etc. They don’t want to watch the usual Warframe chaos or going sightseeing on the game’s environment.

 

I feel that. Both sides of the debate have strong points and I think the middle ground could be the captura idea. Select a scene, select your enemies and levels and have at it.

[kwlingo]

I remember seeing youtube videos on why DE dislikes the fact that most youtube content is in that gray boxed room. Many players who don't know the game believe this is what Warframe is and don't see any of the beautiful works of art in the game they have developed. I'm not sure if anyone has thought about this or if DE has said anything about it, but why not get  ride of the Simulacrum completely and replace it with the Captura Scenes. Therefore players can simulate the Simulacrum options along with the magnificent art work that DE has in game. To be honest I think those gray rooms are so boring. If I could do the Simulacrum in the Captura Scenes, I'd love it!

Also, an additional options for Simulacrum/ Captura Scenes, have and option for "auto spawn rate." Allowing players to trigger either: spawn per kill or 1-10 every second (till spawn cap reached, just like in regular mission). This will allow the youtube content to feel just like the actual game itself and not a simulation in Captura. This would also benefit in testing build that scale with ability use like combo counter or damage scaling with frame abilities.

Just some idea's that would allow for what DE wanted: to stop using the room for youtube content because of the lack of the entirety of the games design work.